Potential Liability Vis a Vis Neighbours Property

IT Loser

I have a semi-detached house which used be separated from my one neighbours house by a very large gap.

Many years ago, my neighbour legitimately and properly filled his side of the gap with an extension to the his house.

I am attempting to construct a gate which seals off my half of the access {effectively the side of my house} from my driveway, thus affording me some privacy from the street view outside.

However, I am worried about performing any work which might involve affecting, touching, or otherwise changing the side of my neighbours extension, which consists, on my side, of dashing on a plastered wall, with no windows etc.

I would like nothing more than to erect a joist which is pinned on one side to MY house and on the other to his extension.

Do I need his permission to do this? Consider perhaps, if I had built my windowless ground floor extension before his, would he have been obliged then to come within an inch and leave a gap, so small as to be almost theoretical, between the two extensions?

I have been also told I may need permission to PAINT the neighbours extension, the side of which is INVISIBLE to him from both inside and outside his own dwelling.

It is my belief that he has not even seen the side of his own house for 20 years- but the wall, painted many moons ago, has become a drab stained eyesore, visible only to myself.

Many thanks indeed.

~me~

sorry its not quite an answer but could you not just ask him?
our neighbours have done loads of stuff to our seperating wall without consulting us first and tbh we dont care we'd just like them to ask first, its annoying that they don't whether its legal or not.

IT Loser

~me~ wrote: »

sorry its not quite an answer but could you not just ask him?
our neighbours have done loads of stuff to our seperating wall without consulting us first and tbh we dont care we'd just like them to ask first, its annoying that they don't whether its legal or not.

Yes, I will do some asking once I have exhausted the legal aspect of it, I would rather get the legality of it down first. Thanks for your suggestion anyway.:)

~me~

ah right, good idea, know your rights before you go in guns blazing!
good luck anyway!

partyguinness

God yeah, you need his permission to slap a joist to his property..:eek:

If you dont he has you for trespass.

How would you feel if someone came along slapped a joist to your property and painted it without your permission?

IT Loser

partyguinness wrote: »

God yeah, you need his permission to slap a joist to his property..:eek:

If you dont he has you for trespass.

How would you feel if someone came along slapped a joist to your property and painted it without your permission?

Its a piece of timber connecting his wall, to my wall, invisible to him, and would be totally unknown to him in any event.

I repeat, it would connect my external wall to his external wall, and would involve nothing more than my drilling 4 small holes into his wall to hold a steel bracket.

Every time I lay against his wall, is that trespass? When my cat pisses on his wall, is that criminal damage? When I look at his ugly unpainted wall, emanating from his space and into my vision alone, invisible to him, is that not breaking the rule in Rylands?

partyguinness

IT Loser wrote: »

Its a piece of timber connecting his wall, to my wall, invisible to him, and would be totally unknown to him in any event.

I repeat, it would connect my external wall to his external wall, and would involve nothing more than my drilling 4 small holes into his wall to hold a steel bracket.

Every time I lay against his wall, is that trespass? When my cat pisses on his wall, is that criminal damage? When I look at his ugly unpainted wall, emanating from his space and into my vision alone, invisible to him, is that not breaking the rule in Rylands?

Get you...Rylands v Fletcher...this is a classic example of a little knowledge being dangerous.

Long Answer: Rylands case involved strict liablilty for unusual nuisance activities or dangerous activities and its impact on neighbouring lands. In reality, there is no such rule it effectively started off the concept of strict liability which we have today especially in environmental law.

Short Answer: No. There is no nuisance here. Trespass wld be the issue here.

In your last paragraph, the answer is technically yes, you are trespassing but your neighbour must show damgage/loss to bring an action against you. As there is no loss = no action.

This is not the place for a tort lecture.

Have you tried asking him? He may have no problem whatsoever with your idea.

Carrying out such a job without asking him wild prob piss him off more than anything in the long run.

IT Loser

partyguinness wrote: »

Get you...Rylands v Fletcher...this is a classic example of a little knowledge being dangerous.

Long Answer: Rylands case involved strict liablilty for unusual nuisance activities or dangerous activities and its impact on neighbouring lands. In reality, there is no such rule it effectively started off the concept of strict liability which we have today especially in environmental law.

Short Answer: No. There is no nuisance here. Trespass wld be the issue here.

In your last paragraph, the answer is technically yes, you are trespassing but your neighbour must show damgage/loss to bring an action against you. As there is no loss = no action.

This is not the place for a tort lecture.

Have you tried asking him? He may have no problem whatsoever with your idea.

I did not try to start a tort lecture. Indeed, the introduction of "trespass" into the argument was by someone else.

I may ask the man yet, but I anticipate he will say no.

Thus, I determine if I can avoid legal liability in the event I decided to go against his wishes, or fail to consider his wishes in the first place.

I have a law degree, UCD, 2:1.

I was taking the mick.

One of the posters was talking about "trespass" so I also decided to enter into the realm of utter legal stupidity by talking about "Rylands".

In the meantime, thanks for your help and advice. It is unlikley, once the workmanship is of the utmost quality, that he can claim or show damage.

partyguinness

"I have a law degree, UCD, 2:1"

Exactly, what I am talking about when I said a little knowledge. If that was so beneficial to you, you would be not be here having to to ask this question....;)

But anyway...

Now correct me if I am wrong, you started this thread wanting to know whether or not you could connect your two properties with a joist and then possible paint it.

I mentioned about trespass because without permission that is what you will be guilty of. I do not see how that is entering the realm of "legal stupidity"...

The quality of the workmanship is of no relevance whatsoever. It doesnt matter if the joist is solid gold and diamond encrusted. You are interferring with his property without permission. End of.

Ask the neighbour. Sorry if this is coming across a bit ****ty.

IT Loser

Oh dear. I have been put in my place by somebody with an absolutely gigantic SNIPPED. I better shuffle along now.

He can claim trespass if he wants but he cant show damage.

The man is quite old, given to fudging on issues, and has a serious drink issue. If I ask and he says yes, he will say he said no. There is no way I am asking for it in writing, he will go inside to write it down, and forget why he is writing. Besides, you could get him to sign the house over at the same time. It would count for nought considering his frail state.

Thats why, considering how small and neat a job it is, I was going to plug ahead anyways, and see what sort of potential liability I could be exposed to.

partyguinness

IT Loser wrote: »

Oh dear. I have been put in my place by somebody with an absolutely gigantic e-penis. I better shuffle along now.

He can claim trespass if he wants but he cant show damage.

The man is quite old, given to fudging on issues, and has a serious drink issue. If I ask and he says yes, he will say he said no. There is no way I am asking for it in writing, he will go inside to write it down, and forget why he is writing. Besides, you could get him to sign the house over at the same time. It would count for nought considering his frail state.

Thats why, considering how small and neat a job it is, I was going to plug ahead anyways, and see what sort of potential liability I could be exposed to.

You can always chance it and see what happens. Has he any children/nephews/nieces that you can talk to?

When you mention that there is no damage, the trespass is ongoing.

What happens if your wall starts to subside and damages his wall or he has structural issues and now he can start blaming you.?

You can be sure a relation of his will seize on this. Plus a drink problem? That makes it worse, alcoholics have a canny eye for a money making opportunity.

Classic example, he sees you putting up the joist. Says nothing and 6 months down the line you get a solicitors letter. Remove the joist or pay up...Mate, it might sound far fetched to you but believe me it happens...often.

While I admit my posts might come across a bit obnoxious, my advice is sound..:)

partyguinness

Another issue which springs to mind, he could get an injunction against you forcing you to stop the connection..and you pay the 5k-10k privilege for that.

McCrack

partyguinness I wouldnt waste your time with this individual.

Ive discovered this recently

IT Loser

partyguinness wrote: »

You can always chance it and see what happens. Has he any children/nephews/nieces that you can talk to?

When you mention that there is no damage, the trespass is ongoing.

What happens if your wall starts to subside and damages his wall or he has structural issues and now he can start blaming you.?

You can be sure a relation of his will seize on this. Plus a drink problem? That makes it worse, alcoholics have a canny eye for a money making opportunity.

Classic example, he sees you putting up the joist. Says nothing and 6 months down the line you get a solicitors letter. Remove the joist or pay up...Mate, it might sound far fetched to you but believe me it happens...often.

While I admit my posts might come across a bit obnoxious, my advice is sound..:)

Yes, your advice is sound. But 3 years down the tubes in college is 3 years, nonetheless.;) And they dont hand out them 2:1's for fun.

On to the matter at hand- the only way his wall could subside is if my wall, which is basically the side of my own house, starts to subside. So if his wall subsides because mine is too, then my house is falling down, by which time I no longer give a flying one about him, in the general scheme of things. If you see my drift.

In short, there is no way this piece of timber could push his house down. Its basically a joist of timber, weighing around 40lbs, stuck into his wall which weighs maybe 3-4 tonnes, and stuck again into the side of my house, ditto.

There are possibly nieces, nephews, but no grandkids as he has no issue of his own.

Once again, your advice is sound. I only ask it as I doubt, sincerely, that to speak to the man would accomplish anything.

IT Loser

SNIPPED

McCrack

IT Loser did you know there's a humour forum on boards?

You might have luck there.

IT Loser

McCrack wrote: »

IT Loser did you know there's a humour forum on boards?

You might have luck there.

Get back into the appropriate thread and fight it out there. You say I have no case, that I am telling fibs and that what I am saying happened could not/not happen.

Thats fine.

But dont loaf around with an attitude because of it.

dermot_sheehan

Provided you don't damage the neighbors property or if you do damage it and you make good after section 43 of the new land and conveyancing law reform bill is enacted, and provided it's exempt development or has planning permission you commit no trespass or nuisance if you keep to your side of the property line.

However, you have no right of support from your neighbor. Your neighbor, or any successor in title of the neighbor would be perfectly entitled to demolish their wall leaving your beam with no support.

IT Loser

gabhain7 wrote: »

Provided you don't damage the neighbors property or if you do damage it and you make good after section 43 of the new land and conveyancing law reform bill is enacted, and provided it's exempt development or has planning permission you commit no trespass or nuisance if you keep to your side of the property line.

However, you have no right of support from your neighbor. Your neighbor, or any successor in title of the neighbor would be perfectly entitled to demolish their wall leaving your beam with no support.

Many thanks indeed- that is most helpful. Cheers.

slavetothegrind

Better then maybe to excavate your side and sit a steel upright in concrete and work from that!

Who needs grief!

JUmp over to diy and you'll get all the advice you need there.;)

IT Loser

joeclif wrote: »

Better then maybe to excavate your side and sit a steel upright in concrete and work from that!

Who needs grief!

JUmp over to diy and you'll get all the advice you need there.;)

Thats what my father was suggesting.

Unfortunately you lose 6" to 1' at that rate.

But thanks anyways.:) 'Obliged.

Sangre

IT Loser wrote: »

And they dont hand out them 2:1's for fun.

I beg to differ!

nuac

Check if teh planning authority allowed the extension to be so close to the site boundary.

You may not fix anything to his wall without permission.