Pain, suffering, fear, desire, life, death- discuss.

tech77

Just some thoughts on the above:

Is suffering necessarily an integral part of living.
Is pain needed for survival.

Is painlessness or fearlessness inconsistent with life.
On the other extreme, if pain is indulged in and welcomed even, can this be a good thing and how consistent with life is this.

What is the basis for suffering and fear- how much does desire play in this.
(incidentally, Buddhism's take on suffering- what exactly is it?).

Is a life without suffering/hardship necessarily a good thing.
Should a life without suffering/hardship necessarily be an ideal or something to strive for?

If not what in your opinion is an ideal life in hardship/suffering terms.
In short, what are the merits of suffering?

I'd really appreciate different views on this.

Dades

Pain is what keeps you from sitting with your foot in a campfire, and subsequently losing a limb.

Skapoot

If you don't make the stupid decisions and get hurt then you won't learn. People need to get hurt to be pointed in the right direction.

I believe a life without pain should be what we strive for, but we can't learn to make the right decisions to begin this life without making the ridiculous dangerous ones first.

Pain is a great teacher.

nyarlothothep

I think pain should be minimized. A life of pain can leave people not achieving their potential and pretty messed up. Imagine growing up in a ghetto or warzone not ideal environments to grow up in and develop ones talents. I think being challenged is what should be maximized in education/culture etc and pain in all its various forms should be eradicated. I don't think any of these things are inherent to the human condition, the qualities of that condition are contingent, we needn't follow them slavishly.

tech77

Dades wrote: »

Pain is what keeps you from sitting with your foot in a campfire, and subsequently losing a limb.

Of course- that's the reality.
Pain is inextricably linked to sustaining life.

Maybe what i'm really asking is:
Why pain though (as we know it subjectively).
Why is it so brutal.
Or is that brutality the only thing that can keep us in check (survival-wise).

Why isn't there a more "sophisticated" method of signalling lethality/harm/threat- (i dunno, a more "cerebral" mechanism).

Also, don't know much about Buddhism but would something like a Buddhistic attitude to pain be at odds with the "limb in the fire" example above.
They teach stuff about transcending pain (is that correct?)- would such an attitude place less importance on survival of your limb in that case.
Or have they developed other "signalling mechanisms" as it were?

Edit: when i refer to "pain" above, i mean both emotional and physical suffering.

johnnyskeleton

One man's pain is another man's pleasure. Some people seek physical pain to be inflicted on them because they enjoy the sensation of it. Others revel in their emotional pain. Others still use pain as a measure of their mettle i.e. nonchalantly shrugging off fairly serious injuries.

So yeah, some people like it, who am I to stop them?

Dades

tech77 wrote: »

Why isn't there a more "sophisticated" method of signalling lethality/harm/threat- (i dunno, a more "cerebral" mechanism).

There undoubtedly would be - had we been 'designed'.

However our nervous system and that of other creatures is the product of evolution, which, being an unguided process, was unconcerned with how it's processes would result in our current concepts of "pain" and "suffering". In short, biologically, it's just how our bodies (and therefore our emotions) have turned out.

Skapoot

There is a more sophisticated "cerebral" way of warning us of danger.


Its called your gut feeling. Bad vibes etc. Theyre right most of the time.

tech77

Dades wrote: »

There undoubtedly would be - had we been 'designed'.

However our nervous system and that of other creatures is the product of evolution, which, being an unguided process, was unconcerned with how it's processes would result in our current concepts of "pain" and "suffering". In short, biologically, it's just how our bodies (and therefore our emotions) have turned out.

Right, thanks.
That's more of a "how" answer than a "why" one though tbh.
I mean, philosophically- what is the meaning of the brutality of pain.

DarkJager

I don't know how anyone can think of death and still remain happy.

Affable

Desire can bring pain but braver to desire and lose than to detach yourself.
Who knows, the rewards could be special, just don't expect too much joy.

Zombrex

tech77 wrote: »

Right, thanks.
That's more of a "how" answer than a "why" one though tbh.
I mean, philosophically- what is the meaning of the brutality of pain.

The "meaning" of pain is to make you not want to do the thing you just did again because it is potentially damaging to you. Pain is a way for our bodies to regulate our behaviour.

It is really that simple. I think you are searching for some idea that doesn't actually exist.