Eradication of Chub

beer enigma

Just came across this document & thought I'd throw it open for discussion to see what people felt ?

Its basically an initiative from Invasive Species Ireland (http://www.invasivespeciesireland.com/) & sets out a plan to remove Chub fully from Southern Irish waters.....

Have a read & see what you think - http://www.invasivespeciesireland.com/files/public/Management%20contingency/Chub.pdf

Zzippy

Saw an article in a local (midlands) paper last week stating that the fisheries board were hopeful they had eradicated them completely, after identifying the spawning locations and targeting them heavily. Will take a few years of follow up work to be sure, but lets hope they're right.
Chub are an invasive alien species with no reason to be in Ireland. The people who introduced them were extremely irresponsible, and IMO, if caught, should have got prison sentences.
Alien invasives can alter ecosystems, outcompete or predate on native species, introduce disease and parasites that can devastate native stocks, reduce biodiversity, etc. The Habitats Directive makes it illegal to transfer fish. Anyone introducing chub to "improve their fishing" does not deserve to be called an angler. I would call them scum.

beer enigma

Any ideas 'why' they were first introduced - was it just irresponsible anglers looking for something different ?

I think they're a member of the Carp family if memory serves ?

Zzippy

Andip wrote: »

Any ideas 'why' they were first introduced - was it just irresponsible anglers looking for something different ?

I think they're a member of the Carp family if memory serves ?

Almost certainly by "anglers" looking for something different. FFS, if they want to catch chub they can f*ck off to England... :rolleyes: :mad:

Yep, they're a cyprinid, which includes carp, roach, bream, rudd, etc

ButcherOfNog

I would guess they were "introduced" by pike angling tourists, brought over as livebait. And they'll never wipe them out, waste of money trying. They live quite happily in the UK along with all the other species.

Far better off putting the money spent on this into enforcement, to stop this happening in the future and enforcing the current fishing laws.

coolwings

The main reason for introducing new fish, or stocking more of the same ones already there ..... not catching enough to match desire.
Sometimes it's warranted, stocks have gotten low for one reason or another.
But usually it's lack of experience.
Then there's fishing magazine article species envy ...
There's a bit of anarchical hate/michief making for those who own or manage a water and putting the alien species in.
There is also the graffiti "making a mark" element.

Humanity has a come up with a multitude of reasons for screwing up the environment, none of them justifiable if viewed from outside the self centred world of the culprit.

I agree with the post above that it's highly optimistic to think they can be eradicated. I have reasons to believe that certain so called anglers have already moved some to the Shannon.
Strike one (more) against native brown trout, perch, and young pike.

beer enigma

Apparently the body running the 'waterways of Ireland' introduced Chub to the Boyne 20 years ago, but they 'disappeared'.............

Zzippy

Andip wrote: »

Apparently the body running the 'waterways of Ireland' introduced Chub to the Boyne 20 years ago, but they 'disappeared'.............

Where did you hear that? Waterways Ireland, or whoever they were then, would have nothing to do with the Boyne as its not a navigable waterway. CFB or the local fishery board would definitely not be in the business of introducing alien species either.

coolwings

Certain very well known coarse match anglers did it with chub in the Boyne, as well as moving roach just about everywhere at that time.

Zzippy

coolwings wrote: »

Certain very well known coarse match anglers did it with chub in the Boyne, as well as moving roach just about everywhere at that time.

I would hope you used the term "anglers" rather loosely there. Scum would be more appropriate.

coolwings

Zzippy wrote: »

I would hope you used the term "anglers" rather loosely there. Scum would be more appropriate.

It was outrageous vandalism, done in full knowledge of the outcome, the attitude was f~~~ the people who already fish there.
Nothing has changed except Irish bream, rudd and trout are all greatly reduced to make the niche/food for roach.

Since then we got dace, now chub, I'll bet attempts have been made with barbel in the fast game rivers ....
In effect, it's an anarchical job of fishing anglicization.

Zzippy

I did hear of a German guy who was living in the south east and introduced huchen to the Suir - none were ever found again so presumably died out, but jesus, if they had thrived! :eek:

beer enigma

Zzippy wrote: »

Where did you hear that? Waterways Ireland, or whoever they were then, would have nothing to do with the Boyne as its not a navigable waterway. CFB or the local fishery board would definitely not be in the business of introducing alien species either.

I read it ages ago - possibly on an NCFFI flyer or the CFB website - suprised me at the time - I'll see if I can find the link

beer enigma

Found it - came from a newspaper artice dated 2004

"
Chub in the Inny

I was talking to a fellow angler, Mick, who was on the look out for Chub as he had caught eight in this section of the river last week.

He informed the Shannon Fisheries Commission (SFC), so I rang them to check this out. I spoke to Dr Joe Caffrey who runs the research department on coarse fish for the SFC. He could only confirm that the fish sent to him to examine were Chub, but could not confirm that they were caught on the Inny – that is, he wasn’t there to witness the catch. Paul Burke, who also works for the SFC, told me that two Chub had been caught on the Inny two years ago, after some irresponsible angler had let some run the river.
Their main concern was the fear of disease being spread among the native breeds. As 20 years ago, the organisations running the waterways of Ireland did release Chub into the Boyne, but they soon disappeared. They might just have migrated somehow and are now turning up in the Inny - so watch this space, as I’ll keep an eye on this and report any more news. As long as they are disease free this could be a bonus, giving Irish and visiting anglers another breed to master."

viper123

coolwings wrote: »

It was outrageous vandalism, done in full knowledge of the outcome, the attitude was f~~~ the people who already fish there.
Nothing has changed except Irish bream, rudd and trout are all greatly reduced to make the niche/food for roach.

Since then we got dace, now chub, I'll bet attempts have been made with barbel in the fast game rivers ....
In effect, it's an anarchical job of fishing anglicization.

Remembering of course that bream and rudd are also introduced species...
http://www.habitas.org.uk/invasive/species.asp?item=5025

coolwings

viper123 wrote: »

Remembering of course that bream and rudd are also introduced species...
http://www.habitas.org.uk/invasive/species.asp?item=5025

True, and if you go back to the last ice age, so are we .....

Zzippy

Andip wrote: »

Found it - came from a newspaper artice dated 2004

"
Chub in the Inny

I was talking to a fellow angler, Mick, who was on the look out for Chub as he had caught eight in this section of the river last week.

He informed the Shannon Fisheries Commission (SFC), so I rang them to check this out. I spoke to Dr Joe Caffrey who runs the research department on coarse fish for the SFC. He could only confirm that the fish sent to him to examine were Chub, but could not confirm that they were caught on the Inny – that is, he wasn’t there to witness the catch. Paul Burke, who also works for the SFC, told me that two Chub had been caught on the Inny two years ago, after some irresponsible angler had let some run the river.
Their main concern was the fear of disease being spread among the native breeds. As 20 years ago, the organisations running the waterways of Ireland did release Chub into the Boyne, but they soon disappeared. They might just have migrated somehow and are now turning up in the Inny - so watch this space, as I’ll keep an eye on this and report any more news. As long as they are disease free this could be a bonus, giving Irish and visiting anglers another breed to master."

That article is a load of rubbish. For a start, no "organisation running the waterways of Ireland" would even attempt to introduce an alien species. Secondly, how were these chub supposed to migrate from the Boyne to the Inny - by swimming around the coast and up the Shannon?
Also, the last sentence shows the attitude some "anglers" have - "this could be a bonus, giving Irish and visiting anglers another breed to master". :rolleyes:

Have you got a link?

beer enigma

Not 100% sure as it was emailed to me a couple of years back - I'll try to find out though

Without being contraversial here - & this is a question rather than a statement !! - how come Chub co-exist happily in the UK - is it just that the balance has come back over time ?

Zzippy

Andip wrote: »

Not 100% sure as it was emailed to me a couple of years back - I'll try to find out though

Without being contraversial here - & this is a question rather than a statement !! - how come Chub co-exist happily in the UK - is it just that the balance has come back over time ?

Whenever a new species is introduced to a habitat it upsets the balance of thet ecosystem. If the habitat is suitable for the new species, it will increase in numbers if it can compete with native species. If it cannot, it will die out. If it can, it reduces the number of native plants/animals until either they die out, or the ecosystem reaches a new balance to include the new species. That can cause large swings in the population of all species until this balance is reached, which can take many years. In the UK, I would guess this is being reached now, with lower populations of native fish species in those habitats where chub have been introduced.
For an example, look at mink in Ireland. Since they were introduced, their population has increased enormously, and the population of waterfowl and some other species is (by observation) much reduced.

stevenmu

I came across this link, is it the right one?
http://archives.tcm.ie/newrydemocrat/2004/10/05/story3828.asp