276 people jailed for not paying their debts in 2008

The_Conductor

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/276-people-jailed-for-not-paying-debts-last-year-1808096.html

Two hundred and seventy-six people were imprisoned for not paying their debts last year, according to a report published today by the Free Legal Advice Centre.

The centre says the figures underline the need for urgent reform of Ireland's "Dickensian" laws on debt enforcement.

It says the process of debt collection in Ireland almost seems designed to exclude the debtor from having a role and from understanding what is involved.

FLAC's call for reform is being supported by the Irish Banking Federation, which says the current process causes unnecessary distress and wastes resources.

Riskymove

there's not really much detail here so it's hard to comment ... what sort of debts are we talking about...how much a process is there? .....is jail a real last resort?

solice

Didnt Lefoy (sp?) recently rule that jailing somebody for not being able to pay their debts was unconstitutional...?

Are any of these people still in prison? Doubtful I assume

The_Conductor

Not sure. Its on breakingnews.ie and the indo online at the moment. I'm guessing there will be analysis of it available tomorrow or later in the week.

Mena

The way I understand it, and I am open to correction here, is that you cannot be jailed for a debt in Ireland. You get jailed for ignoring a court order. This is fair enough,and I have a little less than zero sympathy for people in this position.

Let me expand on how I understand it.

You owe X on a loan, and repay Y. Due to whatever circumstances, you can no longer afford to repay said debt.

Lets say it goes on for months and months, the bank will eventually take you to court over the debt, as is their right.

The problem begins here. Some people ignore the summons/do not turn up in court. Were you to appear in court, you could explain the situation to the Judge, outline (with facts) your current financial position, and the court will make an order for you to repay back an amount you can afford, even if it's €5.00 a week, based on your current situation.

When people do not turn up in court, the Judge has none of your financial details available, so makes a judgement for you to pay X back per week/month. If you fail to pay this/cannot afford it, you're in contempt of court and will be jailed.

I don't see the problem here. It's not the original debt/non-repayment that's the issue, it's ignoring a court order that gets you time.

digital_d

Mena wrote: »

The way I understand it, and I am open to correction here, is that you cannot be jailed for a debt in Ireland. You get jailed for ignoring a court order. This is fair enough,and I have a little less than zero sympathy for people in this position.

Let me expand on how I understand it.

You owe X on a loan, and repay Y. Due to whatever circumstances, you can no longer afford to repay said debt.

Lets say it goes on for months and months, the bank will eventually take you to court over the debt, as is their right.

The problem begins here. Some people ignore the summons/do not turn up in court. Were you to appear in court, you could explain the situation to the Judge, outline (with facts) your current financial position, and the court will make an order for you to repay back an amount you can afford, even if it's €5.00 a week, based on your current situation.

When people do not turn up in court, the Judge has none of your financial details available, so makes a judgement for you to pay X back per week/month. If you fail to pay this/cannot afford it, you're in contempt of court and will be jailed.

I don't see the problem here. It's not the original debt/non-repayment that's the issue, it's ignoring a court order that gets you time.

I think this is the process in Ireland, but I think this differs from a lot of other countries where debt is a civil law issue - and the courts have a intermediary role, i.e. both parties have to agree to go to court to agree a repayment plan etc. Which I would tend to agree with more, basically each party agrees to go to court to find a resolution.

I don't really agree with the potential outcome where people end up in jail! Banks/Credit Card companies lend money to people to make a profit, based on a contract that they lend X and you repay Y. The risk of defaults etc. is a business risk in that line of business. Thier interests should be focused on having proper procedures in place to minimise this business risk, and this should be treated in the courts in the same manner as anyother contract law.

D

The_Conductor

The Irish problem has been debtors have been very fast to take cases directly to the circuit court and in some cases the High Court- by passing the district court- which can discourage a lot of people from entering any defense whatsover.

I believe there was direction given to Mortgage providors strongly discouraging this legal route, in the past week or so (damned if I can find a link though).

Mr.Micro

Good old Dickensian Ireland. This headline was in the Irish Daily Mail at least a week ago. Of course the real crooks who took millions on loans will be lauded and bailed out. Jailing debtors should be stopped immediately and the law changed without delay.

ejmaztec

I'm surprised that the workhouses have gone, or are they keeping quiet about these?

With regard to debts, it's ridiculous, court order or no, for the tax-payer to have to foot the bill for all of the associated costs relating to someone being banged up for a private debt.

WinstonSmith

so correct me if i'm wrong. the government is down money because they haven't been able to pay up, so they decide to spend more money (of the tax-payers' money) to pursue an unconstituional fight? that definitely does sound like the sort of stupid thing the irish gov would do!

solice

WinstonSmith wrote: »

so correct me if i'm wrong. the government is down money because they haven't been able to pay up, so they decide to spend more money (of the tax-payers' money) to pursue an unconstituional fight? that definitely does sound like the sort of stupid thing the irish gov would do!

It was only just deemed unconstitutional and those people went to prison last year