Family member on drugs

ashmac

hi
i was redirected from the after hours forum as i couldnt find a direct forum on drugs.
basically...and i will keep this as short as poss!
family member on herion/methadone for 18 years..i wont even start to tell you how many times there has been rehab and promises and long stints abroad (basically problem was away so family didnt have to deal with it!) now the person is an adult (33 yrs old) living with his mum, sister and her child. his father passed away suddenly v. young 10 yrs ago. he rules the roust (SP?) at home. staying in bed all day, never buys anyting eg. food, eats all the food in gaff, steals from all of them incl. 10 yr old..
it has come to an all time low now. he just doesnt listen to anyone, its killing all of them. excuses excuses all the time. we are all sick of it but are so used to dissapointment that no motaviation to change it. except now, i have involved myself (am an inlaw, long time around!) i HATE (excuse caps) seeing the pain he is causing.
the question is: is there some service in dublin/wicklow actually anywhere in ireland, that intervention is done. i have seen it on tv. i know that sounds silly. remember soproanos with chris? does that actually happen? i know he would get up and try and leave the sec he realises what is happening so obviously the intervention people, if they exist, are prepared for this.
any help or suggesions would be great
thanks.

enniscorthy

hiya mate try AISHLING CENTRE down in BALLYRAGGET CO KILKENNY they will put u in right direction glad i could help

Crumble Froo

i'm not especially familiar with the irish system... but you say he's been on methadone, i presume that that was part of a maintenance programme as opposed to taking it recreationally?

i appreciate that many people on the done will still dabble a bit with opiates, but is he currently on methadone, using, or is he abstinent? presumably, and i could be wrong, but it sounds like he's still using, given that he's stealing from members of his household. could you possibly talk to his methadone case manager and express your concerns?

what sort of rehabs has he been to, and for how long? were they daily visits/or longhaul residential ones? could an ultimatum (get clean, or leave) be useful?

sad bit is, he can only get over this if he wants to. if the motivation from himself isnt there to get clean, then there's really not a whole lot the family can do. perhaps even putting a foot down about food, etc, trying to get him to get a job/do a course/volunteer. let him make the choice to get clean later, but at least get him making some significant changes in other areas of his life.

Das Kitty

I'm afraid there isn't much you or anyone can do unless your relation wants to sort himself out, and to be quite frank why would he? He's got a cushy life and gets to get high, where's the motivation?

My brother is in a similar situation, and my family have had to be strong and tell him that we would support him in seeking help but would not he housing him or feeding him. We're really hoping he'll hit rock bottom and see that he needs to change.

I'm planning on getting my Mum and myself into a Narcotics Anonymous meeting or similar for families to see how best to deal with this. I do know that cushioning his fall isn't going to help him.

To be honest OP, until his Mum puts him out, there isn't going to be much change, an intervention might help, but at this stage of affairs I very much doubt it.

Sorry for your troubles.

LegacyUser

Don't know where in the country you are, but the family support network, tho based in Dublin can link you in with services nationwide.
http://www.fsn.ie/
Their role is helping families cope with, and where necessary, form an action plan around confronting or dealing with addiction.

At the very least it they will help empower the other people living in the house. I have dealt with them in the past and cannot recommend them highly enough. They offer a free councelling and support, including help for the child living in a drug/addiction environment.
Best of luck

board om

ashmac wrote: »

hi
i was redirected from the after hours forum as i couldnt find a direct forum on drugs.
basically...and i will keep this as short as poss!
family member on herion/methadone for 18 years..i wont even start to tell you how many times there has been rehab and promises and long stints abroad (basically problem was away so family didnt have to deal with it!) now the person is an adult (33 yrs old) living with his mum, sister and her child. his father passed away suddenly v. young 10 yrs ago. he rules the roust (SP?) at home. staying in bed all day, never buys anyting eg. food, eats all the food in gaff, steals from all of them incl. 10 yr old..
it has come to an all time low now. he just doesnt listen to anyone, its killing all of them. excuses excuses all the time. we are all sick of it but are so used to dissapointment that no motaviation to change it. except now, i have involved myself (am an inlaw, long time around!) i HATE (excuse caps) seeing the pain he is causing.
the question is: is there some service in dublin/wicklow actually anywhere in ireland, that intervention is done. i have seen it on tv. i know that sounds silly. remember soproanos with chris? does that actually happen? i know he would get up and try and leave the sec he realises what is happening so obviously the intervention people, if they exist, are prepared for this.
any help or suggesions would be great
thanks.

Hello,

unfortunatly it is time for him to go. after 18 years of using an intervention isnt going to do any good because he isnt going to hear anything that he hasnt heard before. and all it will do is let him emotionally blackmail you and also it will give him the chance to make you promises that he most likely wont keep.

at this stage of the game you need to show him the door and leave him to sort himself out. when he hasnt a roof over his head and he needs to buy food with the money he had previously being using to buy drugs he will quickly figure out what is important in life. by letting him live at home and feeding him, washing his clothes, etc, you are not helping him at all. in fact you are enabling him to continue his life of drug use. he does this because he knows he can get away with it. you just have to bite the bullet and cut all ties. its tough love im afraid. as it stands he has a comfortable life so he has no reason to quit using, but take that comfortable life away from him and he is screwed. and thats when he will have to start sorting things out. giving him ultimatims is only a short term solution.

if he is robbing then he is most likely still taking drugs because methadone is free so he would have no need for cash to pay for it. needing cash badly enough that you will steal for it means its for drugs, and you would have to need it pretty badly to steal from a 10 year old.

anyway, bottom line is STOP BEING AN ENABLER. i know this sounds harsh but in a fews years time he will thank you for it.

Crumble Froo wrote: »

i'm not especially familiar with the irish system... but you say he's been on methadone, i presume that that was part of a maintenance programme as opposed to taking it recreationally?

i appreciate that many people on the done will still dabble a bit with opiates, but is he currently on methadone, using, or is he abstinent? presumably, and i could be wrong, but it sounds like he's still using, given that he's stealing from members of his household. could you possibly talk to his methadone case manager and express your concerns?

if you know anything about methadone use then you will know that you cant use methadone recreationally. it doesnt work like that. it works only to stop the withdrawals of opiates and nothing else. it would be about as much use as using aspirin recreationaly.

if he is collecting his methaodne from a clinic then they will be taking weekly urines to test for drugs, whcih means they will know if he is still using or not. they will not give it to him unsupervised until he is stabilised, which would mean giving drug free urines for at least 6 months. so if he is on methadone and is still collecting it on a daily basis then you can pretty much take it that he is still using. either way though, the doctor is not going to give you this information because of patient/doctor confidentiality. so you will not get any information from his clinic or doctor.

you could just purchase a home drugs test in your local chemist and get him to do them at home in front of you. that might be some help.

anyways, thats all i can think of now cos it is late and im tired. feel free to PM me of you need any other information.

good luck.

Das Kitty

board om wrote: »

STOP BEING AN ENABLER

He's living with his own family, not OP.

if you know anything about methadone use then you will know that you cant use methadone recreationally. it doesnt work like that. it works only to stop the withdrawals of opiates and nothing else. it would be about as much use as using aspirin recreationaly.

My brother has used it recreationally, I must tell him that he may as well have been taking aspirin. :rolleyes:

User2

My Partner works for the Bray Community Addiction Team, They will offer help and advice/support etc etc,

PM me if you want contact details or need any more info. It's a completely free service and they have a drop in centre where family members can drop in if they need to talk to counsellors etc.

Hope this helps

Good Luck

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I think the best and most helpful thing your family can do is turf him out. I know it sounds awful, but as other people have said, tough love is the best answer. Not necessarily for him, but for them certainly it is. Having to watch or be around someone in that sort of situation is pure torture.

My family was in a similar situation with my older brother. He was stealing from my mother to buy drugs, and also stealing from her partner. My mother was funding his addiction and said she'd rather he got his money from her than stealing from strangers. Anyway, she eventually had to turf him out when her partner gave her an ultimatum. She admits now it was the best choice she could make. He's not sober yet but at least he's not making his addiction her burden.

Your family needs to get rid of him. They should not have to watch him kill himself slowly (which is essentially what he is doing) and for the sake of the 10 year old they need to fcuk him out of the house.

Best of luck with this, I hope it works out for everyone concerned.

board om

Das Kitty wrote: »

My brother has used it recreationally, I must tell him that he may as well have been taking aspirin. :rolleyes:

your brother obviously has a good imagination when it comes to getting high. hey, you should tell to roll up some banana skins in cigarette papers and smoke them. or maybe some nutmeg :rolleyes:

bottom line is methadone does not get you stoned so it can not be used recreationally. the most that would happen if you took enough of it is you would either fall asleeep or overdose, thats about it. anyone who claims to take it recreationally obviously has no idea what they are talking about.

Das Kitty

It's a synthetic opiate with similar effects to natural opiates. It works for withdrawal because it blocks the effects of other narcotics when you're on it.

Plenty of people take morphine for pain relief and report feeling of mild euphoria and can become addicted to morphine, I'm not saying it's the same as heroin but it can and is used recreationally. You can even buy it from a dealer.

ashmac

ta for all advice. i wanna answer questions in one reply. how do i do this.? they way some people have quotes up and answers below them in one message? thanks!

Bottle_of_Smoke

board om wrote: »

your brother obviously has a good imagination when it comes to getting high. hey, you should tell to roll up some banana skins in cigarette papers and smoke them. or maybe some nutmeg :rolleyes:

bottom line is methadone does not get you stoned so it can not be used recreationally. the most that would happen if you took enough of it is you would either fall asleeep or overdose, thats about it. anyone who claims to take it recreationally obviously has no idea what they are talking about.

There's a big illegal market for methadone. People who aren't hooked fake it then sell it on. I'm fairly sure there's some recreational use to it

board om

Das Kitty wrote: »

It's a synthetic opiate with similar effects to natural opiates. It works for withdrawal because it blocks the effects of other narcotics when you're on it.

Plenty of people take morphine for pain relief and report feeling of mild euphoria and can become addicted to morphine, I'm not saying it's the same as heroin but it can and is used recreationally. You can even buy it from a dealer.

yes, it is a synthetic opiate, but it is not given to people for withdrawals becuase it blocks other narcotics while you are on it. that is just an added bonus. it is given to people in withdrawal because it has similiar effects as heroin and morphine, but without the stoned feeling.

bascially its like this, when you have been using opiates (heroin, morphine, codeine, etc) for a prolonged time your body builds up a tolerance very quickly. so if you all of a sudden stop taking the opiates your body goes into withdrawals. the withdrawals can be very severe both physically and mentally. so in these circumstances you will be prescribed methadone which is a synthetic opiate. this will stop the physical symptoms of withdrawal by replacing the opiates that your body so badly craves, with synthetic opiates. but because it does not get you stoned it therefore does not help with the mental cravings, which is why a lot of opiate users fail to get off opiates by using methadone.

so the bottom line is that if you were a heroin user and you took methadone instead, you would be physcially ok to the point that you could get up and move around without vomiting and sh1ting everywhere, but your mind would be totally clear and un-stoned, which is the last thing you want because all you can think about is getting stoned, and therefore it is not fully effective. so thats where the counselling comes in. methadone on its own is useless without counselling to go along with it.

you are correct that you can buy methadone from dealers. in fact a lot of people who are prescribed methadone will swap their methadone for heroin. but people arent buying it to get stoned. they are buying it for several reasons, the main reasons being that they either dont get enough from their own Doctor and need that bit extra, or for some reason they cant sign on to a clinic to get their own prescription, or as is mostly the case the waiting list for the clinics is so long (over a year in some areas) that heroin users just want to get off heroin so badly that they will buy it on the street until they get a place on the clinic. but i have yet to meet anyone who buys it to get stoned. there are pleny of medicnes that you could buy over the counter in the chemist that would get you more stoned than methadone. as i said above, methadone only offers a physical solution to opiate withdrawal, not mental. so you would not get a stoned feeling from taking it, no matter how much you took. in fact there is more of a chance of you overdosing before you get stoned.

Das Kitty

ashmac wrote: »

ta for all advice. i wanna answer questions in one reply. how do i do this.? they way some people have quotes up and answers below them in one message? thanks!

You have to manually put in the quote tags. I'm usually too lazy and will just refer to the usernames and it's usually pretty clear.

Taltos

Sent you a PM on quoting.

In extended family - one of the kids was hooked like this - but nowhere near for as long.
Father basically locked him up for a few weeks down the country and got him clean - v risky I know - could have died here.

But rest of family had had enough - tired of being stolen from - in my case our house had been broken into a few times - he was pulled after his last attempt to break in.
I was going to the cops - his dad found out and stepped in....

Yrs on - he is still totally clean and his life really has been turned around.

Know you cannot do the same - just to let you know there is hope - but sometime you really gotta be harsh and mean...
I know have a zero tolerance to drug users - maybe not the best attitude I know.
Some I understand have maybe been abused etc - but in this guys case - he always had the best of the best handed to him.

ashmac

ok, cant figure out the quote thing so will answer questions if i remember all of them!
but first...thank you ALL so much for answering. its great to share with people not involved. i have no idea about hard drugs or dealing with them.
i live in wicklow/dublin area. he (addict) lives with his mum. i am an inlaw around a long time! to be honest no one really knows if he is using. when he seems "off his head" he says its vallium or something else priscribed for depression. no one has met his doc or counseller. they cant! believe this..because he is over 18 he has control. his mum has to get HIS permission to talk to doc!! and has to get another counseller to talk to his counseller.
update: the mum is meeting a connseller this week to talk about it. but god knows what this counseller is like. i am told the addicts know the softies and pick them on purpose.
the bottom line is the mum is too soft and i can kinda understand. it is her son etc..but the 10 yr old is seriously getting effected by this. he (addict) doesnt even try to hide from him when he is off his head and fights with famimly in front of him. its terrible.
anyone heard of that place in thailand? christy dignam from aslan went there. harsh but works. he (addict) says he isnt ready to get clean..that was just today. and he is blackmailing his mum..saying if anyting happens to him it will be her fault etc...
sorry for long post.
cheers

ashmac

enniscorthy wrote: »

hiya mate try AISHLING CENTRE down in BALLYRAGGET CO KILKENNY they will put u in right direction glad i could help

hi
is this the place run by nuns? do you have to pay. do they have a website?
thanks!

ashmac

Das Kitty wrote: »

I'm afraid there isn't much you or anyone can do unless your relation wants to sort himself out, and to be quite frank why would he? He's got a cushy life and gets to get high, where's the motivation?

My brother is in a similar situation, and my family have had to be strong and tell him that we would support him in seeking help but would not he housing him or feeding him. We're really hoping he'll hit rock bottom and see that he needs to change.

I'm planning on getting my Mum and myself into a Narcotics Anonymous meeting or similar for families to see how best to deal with this. I do know that cushioning his fall isn't going to help him.

To be honest OP, until his Mum puts him out, there isn't going to be much change, an intervention might help, but at this stage of affairs I very much doubt it.

Sorry for your troubles.

thanks. and sorry for yours too.
so where is your bro now?

Das Kitty

ashmac wrote: »

thanks. and sorry for yours too.
so where is your bro now?

He's currently sharing a house with 6 others and is doing a small bit of roofing for a friend's uncle to get by. We saw him last night and he's not looking too bad. Obviously I still think he's using, but maybe because he has a little money he's also eating for a change. His girlfriend (also an addict) is living with her parents but she is with him every day, so really I don't think either of them are going to get clean until they are properly apart for a while.

board om

ashmac wrote: »

ok, cant figure out the quote thing so will answer questions if i remember all of them!
but first...thank you ALL so much for answering. its great to share with people not involved. i have no idea about hard drugs or dealing with them.
i live in wicklow/dublin area. he (addict) lives with his mum. i am an inlaw around a long time! to be honest no one really knows if he is using. when he seems "off his head" he says its vallium or something else priscribed for depression. no one has met his doc or counseller. they cant! believe this..because he is over 18 he has control. his mum has to get HIS permission to talk to doc!! and has to get another counseller to talk to his counseller.
update: the mum is meeting a connseller this week to talk about it. but god knows what this counseller is like. i am told the addicts know the softies and pick them on purpose.
the bottom line is the mum is too soft and i can kinda understand. it is her son etc..but the 10 yr old is seriously getting effected by this. he (addict) doesnt even try to hide from him when he is off his head and fights with famimly in front of him. its terrible.
anyone heard of that place in thailand? christy dignam from aslan went there. harsh but works. he (addict) says he isnt ready to get clean..that was just today. and he is blackmailing his mum..saying if anyting happens to him it will be her fault etc...
sorry for long post.
cheers

Hey there,

I will try and answer some of your questions if possible.

the truth is if he is visibly off his head and falling around the place then it is a good chance it could be valium or something else prescribed. doctors do tend to prescribe benzos like valium, zanax, dolmain, zimonvane, etc to addicts. they are usually prescribed to help them get off heroin, but then what usually happens is the addict will take their whole months prescription in the first couple of days and end off their heads. it is very difficult to spot someone who is just taking heroin as there are very few visible signs, but once they are taking tablets they start falling asleep and falling around and general look off their head. and really heroin and benzos go hand in hand. when people see some someone falling down the street with their eyes half closed and stumbling all over the place they immediatly assume that they are on heroin. but this is in fact the effects of the 30 dolmain or zimovane they are after taking. most addicts have a huge tolerance for tablets and they can take in a day what some people would take in lifetime.

the addict will usually get the doctor to prescribe the benzos to help them get off heroin and the doctor will do this for a few months, but then the addict will tell the doctor that they now need the benzos so the doctor is stuck writing the prescriptions because he/she knows that the addict cant just stop taking the tablets. most addicts will have a few doctors to get presciptions off, and then they can also buy tablets on the stret. bottom line is there is no shortage of tablets.

regarding the counsellors being a 'soft touch'. this is more the addict being naive. addicts always like to think they are cleverer than everyone else and you will often hear them boasting about this doctor being easy to get prescriptions off, or how they tricked this counsellor into believing this and that. the truth is most of the time the doctors and councillors know exactly what the addict is up to and they are playing them along. they didnt get to the positions they are in by being stupid or being a soft touch. usually they will just play along with the addict so the addict thinks they are running the show when in fact it is the other way around. you will probably find that the councillor that the addict thinks is a 'soft touch' will tell you very differnt story of the situation.

the reason he is fighting with everyone in the house, and throwing his weight around, and fighting in front of the 10 year old, etc is because he gets away with it. he is manipulating the situation, and by the sounds of it he is doing a very good job of it. and the more he gets away with it the more he is going to do it. and unfortunetly if this 10 years continues to see the addict get his way by throwing tantrums and being abusive, it wont be long before he/she starts doing the sane thing. the child will see how it works for the addict and will start thinking they can do the same thing. this is why you have to start thinking of the welfare the child and start putting him/her first.

the place you are referring to in Thailand is the Thamkrabok Monastary and it is an excellent facility. the link is http://www.thamkrabok.net/ and you should definitly check it out. i would rate it as one of the best in the world and it definitly has one of the highest success rates. but all this is useless until the addict decides he wants to get better. it doesnt matter where you send him, its him that needs to change. to be honest i could write a whole other post just about Thamkrabok as I have done a lot of research on it and I was actually supposed to go there myself earlier this year, but I have been puttting it off as i am not ready yet. but i have my passport ready so as soon as i know i am ready i will be booking that flight.

a place closer to home that is very good and very cheap (as in nearly free) is Cuan Mhuire in Athy, Co Kildare. the link is http://www.cuanmhuire.ie/ and again it is worth checking out. it is run my nuns and is a 5 month treatment programme. it doesnt cost anything to go there, but you sign over your dole money every week and this pays for your food and lodgings. then they give you spending money to buy cigarettes, sweets, etc every week. it is an excellent facility and after you have detoxed from the drugs you work on their gardens and do other things like that until you are ready to leave. some people stay on longer to work there and to help out, bascially to give something back for all the help they received while they were there. they only take a certain amount of patients at a time. i was also suppsoed to go there and i met with them a few times while waiting on a bed to become free. but becuase I came from a privledged background and could afford to go private, they considered me less needy and there were a lot of people who needed the free bed a lot more than i did.

I hope this answers some of your questions. let me know if you would like to hear more about Thamkrabok in Thailand becuase i have a lot of information on it, and personally i rate it very highly.

good luck

ashmac

hi board om
thanks for all the info. he has said he is not ready full stop to go to rehab so i guess thailand place is off the cards at the moment! i have looke it up on the net myself and it looks good...good in a positive rehab sense, not holiday destination for sure! also, i discovered a crowd in dublin that are connected with the place. they offer to escort the addict over for 3k. i reckon its more than a travelling companion for that amount of money. have you heard of them?
anyway..there is an update!
today, saturday 11th, his mum finally confronted him and told him to leave. magically he said yes and said he knew it was coming and walked out. no bag packed or anything...now..i think he is going to oxgyen so he will prob turn up very worse for ware on monday and think he is back in. his mum and another family member went to see a counseller on friday and counseller basically convinced the mum whats what. she has been blind, selectivly mind you!, to the whole thing. its really her call as its her house etc and she was/is scared to stand up to him but apparently that changed today.
i think they are taking it day by day now. i advised they change the locks and clear his room out NOW, so when he returns he knows they are serious..but only time will tell what happens. she told him too that if he trys to get back into the house, she will call the police, who, btw, follow him around ALL the time for the last 15 yrs as its a small town and he is known to get up to stuff. the irony is he hasnt really done anything bad over the last 6 years yet the police harress him alot. i felt sorry for him about this but now i dont give a ****e cause he has caused so much hassle.
re the 10 yr old, thats all of our primary concern, the poor kid cant even have mates over ever...it just isnt right.
so thats it for now. i will keep my fingers crossed. i imagine nothing will happen until monday anyway and will keep you posted.
thanks again for info, that place in athy sounds perfect.:)

Crumble Froo

board om wrote: »

he needs to buy food with the money he had previously being using to buy drugs he will quickly figure out what is important in life.

it's infinitely easier to get free food than free drugs.
but i agree that kicking him out and at least making him realise that there are very very serious consequences to his life choices and habits may hopefully be the start of recovery for him.

if you know anything about methadone use then you will know that you cant use methadone recreationally. it doesnt work like that. it works only to stop the withdrawals of opiates and nothing else. it would be about as much use as using aspirin recreationaly.

i know quite a bit about methadone use and i know that many people do use it recreationally. i know people who are on the maintenance programme who inject it, i know people who have been off opiates for years who will take done now and then, often as a painkiller/sedative/relaxer.

if he is collecting his methaodne from a clinic then they will be taking weekly urines to test for drugs, whcih means they will know if he is still using or not.

opiates leave the system within 1-2 days, 3 max. plenty, plenty of people use while on 'done. still though, it does mean that they do not need to use, and are less likely to turn to desperate measures in order to get a taste.

and sorry, i don't mean to be arguing with you, but you did call me up on my post and im just posting what i know to be true. as far as the OP's situation with their bro in law goes, i agree with you.

Das Kitty wrote: »

Plenty of people take morphine for pain relief and report feeling of mild euphoria and can become addicted to morphine, I'm not saying it's the same as heroin but it can and is used recreationally. You can even buy it from a dealer.

im living in new zealand at the moment, and it initially astounded me how many IDUs used morphine. it was a few months before i realised that there is virtually no heroin in new zealand. they mostly make do with morphine, poppies and homebake. also 'P', or 'pure amphetamine' is really really common here too. kiwis do love their DIY.

ashmac wrote: »

ta for all advice. i wanna answer questions in one reply. how do i do this.? they way some people have quotes up and answers below them in one message? thanks!

at the bottom right of people's posts there should be 4 buttons... one says 'quote', the next has inverted commas... ' " ' , the next has a sorta pen and paper and the next has a thumbs up... click the inverted commas (second one) of all the posts you want to quote, as you read them, then at the bottom of the page, click 'post reply' and the posts you wanted to quote should all appear.

ashmac wrote: »

today, saturday 11th, his mum finally confronted him and told him to leave.

good to hear.

it's a long and hard road ahead for everyone, i reckon, but it's doable. quite a lot of the people i call friends have wasted so many years of their lives to addiction, and for most, it's been a total shock that's finally persuaded them to get out of it. hope your bro-in-law manages to sort his **** out, and that the family manage to get their lives back together too.

best of luck

board om

Crumble Froo wrote: »

i know quite a bit about methadone use and i know that many people do use it recreationally. i know people who are on the maintenance programme who inject it, i know people who have been off opiates for years who will take done now and then, often as a painkiller/sedative/relaxer.

there are several differnt types of methadone prescribed in different countries. there is green, brown, clear liquid, etc. there are even methadone tablets. and yes, there is methadone that can be injected. they all serve pretty much the same purpose, although it is sometimes used as a painkiller in the US due to it being cheaper than their brand name painkillers.

but in ireland the green methadone is nearly always prescribed. they used to prescribe the brown but that was stopped due to the hign levels of sugar in it causing the addicts teeth to rot. this methadone can not be injected. it also would not be much use as a painkiller as it takes too long to take effect. taking it as a sedative or relaxer would just be silly becuase the amount you would have to take wouldnt be worth it. anyone who would be in a position to get their hands on methadone would also know that taking valium or any benzo would be much more effective, much safer, and would cost a fraction of the price.

you may know many people on methadone and you may feel you know a lot about it through them, but i am basing my information on first hand knowledge as i have been on methadone for over 5 years now, and i can tell you that it doesnt get you high or stoned, and in all my years of opiate abuse i have yet to meet anyone who would take methadone for recreational purposes.

Crumble Froo wrote: »

opiates leave the system within 1-2 days, 3 max. plenty, plenty of people use while on 'done. still though, it does mean that they do not need to use, and are less likely to turn to desperate measures in order to get a taste.

opiates can be in your system for up to 5 days. i know this because i have been caught out giving ditry urines when i used to be on the clinic.

when you are on a methadone programme you have to start off in a clinic. and in the begining you have to come to the clinic daily to and take your methadone onsite, fully supervised. you also have to give urine samples while you are there. you cant get your methadone without it. the urine samples are also supervised.

after a few weeks the urine samples will be taken every 2-3 days, but you still have to go to the clinic daily to take you methadone. because you dont know what days of the week you will be asked to give urine samples it is impossible to take drugs without the being caught. if you give a dirty urine in this timeframe then they will keep making you come to the clinic on a daily basis.

after a few months if you havent missed a day and you havent given a dirty urine they will give you 2 days methadone that you can take at home. you still have to collect this at the clinic, and you still have to give regular supervised urine samples. after another while they will let you have 3 days worth to take home, then 4 days, and so on. but these are still collected at the clinic and urines still have to be provided.

eventually after about a year of this they will let you start collecting it from a chemist in your locality. you will still have to go to the clinic to collect your prescription and to give urines samples.

if you are very lucky (like i was) and you can get a GP to take you on, and the clinic agree to it, then you can collect your prescription from your GP. they can only give you weekly prescriptions (unless you are going on holidays) and you are still supposed to give weekly urine samples.

so as you can see it is nearly impossible to take drugs while on a methadone maintainence programme without them knowing. for the first year it is near impossible. if you do stay clean long enough to get weekly prescriptions, then the most you could actually use any drugs is 2 days a week because anything more than that and you will be caught out, and that leads you back to square one.

i am very lucky that i know my doctor very well and he pulled a few strings to get me assigned to him after a year. its very relaxed and he hasnt taken a urine sample off me in years. this is probably a bad thing really as it means i can continue using without any problems. but if i did decide to go gung ho and get clean then i could ask him to start testing me, but thats thoughts for another day.

board om

ashmac wrote: »

hi board om
thanks for all the info. he has said he is not ready full stop to go to rehab so i guess thailand place is off the cards at the moment! i have looke it up on the net myself and it looks good...good in a positive rehab sense, not holiday destination for sure! also, i discovered a crowd in dublin that are connected with the place. they offer to escort the addict over for 3k. i reckon its more than a travelling companion for that amount of money. have you heard of them?

yes, i have heard of them, and i have actually met the guy that set it up. tbh i wasnt too impressed with his tactics.

bascially a family member heard him on the radio and he was telling his story. he offered his contact details for anyone who would like to get in touch for information about the treatment. my relative got in touch with him on my behalf and spoke to him a number of times before we set up a meeting. during all these conversations he told my relative that he was just passing on the information and that he just wanted to see other people get the help he did, which sounded great. its the buddhist way apparently. i had heard about the place before and i was interested so it was great to talk to someone who had been through it.

so in one of the conversations with my relative he metioned that he actually travels back there quite a bit and that he was actually planning a trip there very shortly, so if i wanted to travel with him on this date he would gladly have me tag along. he was also bring some other person who needed treatment. again this was all just offering his services as someone more experienced with the place. my relative thought this was great and they even spoke about me contirbuting to his airfare if i went with him, as a kind of thank you for all his advice. i thought this was fine, he was going anyway so me heading along was no extra hassle for him, but he had pointed me in the right direction so contributing to his airfare was the least i could do.

so we finally met up and we had a good chat about everything. i liked the idea and he had my relative really sold on the idea. we parted company that day and i was pretty much booking my flights. but then my relative got a call to say that he had forgotten to mention (in all these many conversations), that his fee for accompanying me was €3k plus his airfare and any other costs incurred (for a trip he was already going on anyway). up until then it was all as a good samaritan, and that he felt it was his need to spread the word. but it turned from that into me being hit up for money, and not a small amount either. so that was my last dealing with him.

my problem wasnt the amount, or that he asked for payment. tbh i couldnt figure out why he wasnt asking for payment, but he asssured my relative that it was all part of his buddhist teaching to help other addicts. my problem was that he left it until after he had sold the whole idea and that flights were being booked that he decided to mention his 'fee'. you see i was happy enough to go on my own, but he had put the fear of god into my relative about my safety in such a 'crazy country', and he had my relative convinced that when i got there i would end up being mugged by heroin dealing prostitutes and id never be seen alive again.

i just dont think that is any way to do business, and i dont care if he calls himself a 'charity', its still a business. and until you mentioned that there was a group bringing people over to the monastary, i didnt know there was one. i looked at their website and its definitly the same guy. at least he is now advertsing his rates :rolleyes:

so thats my experience with that group. personally if you had a friend or family member willing to travel with you then it would be a lot cheaper. that group are not offering anything extra that you cant do yourself. you still pay all the fees, airfare, taxis, etc anyway. they are just accompanying you on a plane and asking for €3k while they are at it. in fact i read they are traveling there shortly to bring 7 people out for treatment, so if it is a charity how come they arent offering a group discount? they will still be sending the same amount of staff.

anyway, if your family memebr doesnt feel he is ready for treatment then there is no point sending him as until he is ready it will be a waste of money. hopefully the fun of being homeless will change his mind.

good luck

ashmac

quick update (am in work and paranoid IT will get on to this!).
he is back..yes, i told ya!! its funny at this stage. he pitched up last night, just before his mum was going out...said she didnt support him...said its only for one night.. and said...WAIT FOR THIS!!..he is being picked up on friday to go to rehab for a year..yes a YEAR!! of course she let him stay. the sister is so upset, mum went back on all her promises of "never letting him in"...its mental..
dunno what story is today but we have said sister & kid stay with us till he is gone, only way to get through to the mum.
ok gotta go.
will update again soon.
also, thanks for info on irish contact to thailand place. sounds s bit weird, also, 3k for accompanying someone on a plane trip...and if there is 7 of them...how do you keep an eye...i'll do it for that money!

LegacyUser

ashmac wrote: »

ok, cant figure out the quote thing so will answer questions if i remember all of them!
but first...thank you ALL so much for answering. its great to share with people not involved. i have no idea about hard drugs or dealing with them.
i live in wicklow/dublin area. he (addict) lives with his mum. i am an inlaw around a long time! to be honest no one really knows if he is using. when he seems "off his head" he says its vallium or something else priscribed for depression. no one has met his doc or counseller. they cant! believe this..because he is over 18 he has control. his mum has to get HIS permission to talk to doc!! and has to get another counseller to talk to his counseller.
update: the mum is meeting a connseller this week to talk about it. but god knows what this counseller is like. i am told the addicts know the softies and pick them on purpose.
the bottom line is the mum is too soft and i can kinda understand. it is her son etc..but the 10 yr old is seriously getting effected by this. he (addict) doesnt even try to hide from him when he is off his head and fights with famimly in front of him. its terrible.
anyone heard of that place in thailand? christy dignam from aslan went there. harsh but works. he (addict) says he isnt ready to get clean..that was just today. and he is blackmailing his mum..saying if anyting happens to him it will be her fault etc...
sorry for long post.
cheers

yes i was a patient at thamkrabok and it is a very gud treatment center the only one that ever worked 4 me very hard but worth it but if you tell him the sickness is nothin like what he will go through here in Ireland you can go over to the center any time just giv them a couple of days notice in fact if u wer stuck u could just land at the door and they wont turn you away.... but its best if they are expecting you there is no waiting list they hav a website and you can start emailing some of the monks to soet it out and he will only need about 200 euro spending money for the time he will be there the monks take the money and put it in a safe and give you tokens in return to spend ur money.. they say if you travell half way across the world to get clean u hav had enough im two years clean and its great thanks to the support of thamkrabok and my family... family support is very important in clean or active addiction

seeyouinheaven

Hello OP.

I have not had the opportunity to read all of the replies to the posters.

This family member you speak of, the only advice I can give you is that this person is not your enemy. This is the time to help. Stand by. There will be many returns back to the drug because they cannot help it, so never take it personally every time he goes back. as it's no longer the person in control but the drug. He has been taken over by it. And the thing is , he probably will always want to return to it.

Stand by him. Spend time with him. Help him in whatever way you can, if you can. I don't mean give him money. I mean stand by him. Listen to his woes, do not make him feel guilty for the pain he is causing, as he doesn't mean it I'm sure.

Read my previous posts if you will. But be there for him. Stand by him.

If only we knew about this place in Thailand sooner, my brother would still be with us.