Ravens Rock 2009

joeduggan

hows it goin lads. anyone at the rock last sunday? i thought it was a good days rallying but one thing always comes to mind when im at a rally. some lads have plenty of money and have their imprezas and evos. but when they pass you on a stage its like a s if they are out for a sunday drive. then along come the drivers in minis, mkII s , etc. and they are hitting the road in patches. i think all rally drivers should have to start in a 1600cc or less car and have to prove by getting class wins or some kind of points that they are good enough to drive the bigger machinery. cos otherwise the whole rallying thing will become a joke. james coleman was driving a double 0 evo and he was flyin. hes been driving a mkII for years and so when it came to the bigger machinery he was well able for it. any thoughts anyone?

aidan_dunne

Well, last time I checked, a driver is actually restricted as to what they can drive for their first few rallies. Drivers are restricted to cars under 1600cc until they get a certain number of rallies under their belt (six or seven, I think, but someone here who's done rallying will correct me on that with the exact number, I'm sure).

I think it's all about perception, to be honest, and that the human eye picking up lots of movement ends being interpreted by the brain as being extremely fast, but that isn't usually the case in motorsport. Let me explain:

I think a major reason why you think that the drivers in the more expensive machinery, the Evos and Imprezas and the like, appear to be going slower and taking it easier than the lads in the MkII Escorts and twin-cam Corollas and such is the fact that they are four-wheel drive and, therefore, don't move about as much because they've got a lot more grip than the rear-wheel drive stuff. Therefore, they appear to the naked eye to be going a lot slower but, in reality, they actually are getting much better traction out of corners and are much more planted and the clock usually shows the evidence of that. When you look at rallying on the tellly, it's exactly the same, the rear-wheel drive lads are all over the shop, tail sliding, wheels spinning, gravel being thrown in all directions, making lots of noise and are spectacular to watch and look like they're really flying but the four-wheel drive cars (Grp. N in particular) look like they're out for a Sunday drive, as you say, but still end up usually setting much faster times. And in the wet, especially, the rear-wheel drive lads just can't live with the 4WD boys due to the masses of extra traction 4WD gives you. A MKII escort sliding all over the shop on a greasy road, it's engine screaming it's head off as it tries to get the power down is great to watch, but the times at the end of the stage will show a much different story.

Another reason might be the fact that the lads in 4WD cars are fellas who've spent a lot of money on their machines and are, therefore, taking their rallying very seriously and are out to get the best result they can. And in order to be fast, you've got to be steady and smooth. Many of the RWD lads are out to just have a bit of fun and don't mind sliding around and putting on a bit of a show for the spectators but the "big boys" know that will only loose them time and they're not going to do that so they keep it straighter and neater. Less fun to watch, certainly, but it's not about fun, it's about the stage times.

joeduggan

your point is very fair aidan but i can split times with my phone and also the boys with the big machinery are not necessarily the best drivers. you are right about the 1600cc cars at the start where they have to finish a certain amount of rallies. but anyone can finish a rally. all you have to do is drive it like a normal car to the finish. thats why i think they should have to have a certain amount of class wins or somthing to that affect.

biomech

in most cases the guys in the mrk chews have spent alot more money on their cars then the group n guys..... not makeing much of a point here. expecting lads to get class wins before heading into group n????? total pineapple......

joeduggan

true. but im not just talkin group n , ive seen lads in proper group a stuff and they still cant drive them. they think money will solve everything.

biomech

its very little to do with money solving everything, come on you get that in every sport..... but this is just the fairest way of running the licencing side of the sport... look at it this way, you start out under 1600cc in your nova or civic or watever. this is known as a national b licence.. these drivers are usually seeded close to the end of the field out of harms way due to lack of experience . 5 completed events later you can upgrade to national a (1600cc+) so that now you can drive that scubbie dooo or evo that you bought with company profits last year... you spend a small fortune getting it on the road and when you compete you are now seeded a lil bit further up the field. in fairness youve actually earned this by your contribution to the sport and it means you are less likely to get held up by slower traffic or less experienced drivers. irish ralling has many outlets.... the guy with money that can do it so he will do it... the poor guy with determination and drive but just no clue... and then the rest of the guys just win and let the results speak for themselves. if it confuses you this much try something like soccer or rugby.. you only need 1 ball for them.....:D

hi_sir

joeduggan wrote: »

hows it goin lads. anyone at the rock last sunday? i thought it was a good days rallying but one thing always comes to mind when im at a rally. some lads have plenty of money and have their imprezas and evos. but when they pass you on a stage its like a s if they are out for a sunday drive. then along come the drivers in minis, mkII s , etc. and they are hitting the road in patches. i think all rally drivers should have to start in a 1600cc or less car and have to prove by getting class wins or some kind of points that they are good enough to drive the bigger machinery. cos otherwise the whole rallying thing will become a joke. james coleman was driving a double 0 evo and he was flyin. hes been driving a mkII for years and so when it came to the bigger machinery he was well able for it. any thoughts anyone?

never heard such bull in all my days for starters if you have the money you a well intitled to drive what ever you want,and dont bother talking out loud as you have proved you havent a clue what your on about the licencing side of things,i just dont get this thing of hurlers on the ditch slaging boys that after all are giving free days sport,and the they think because the car isnt going sidways or making big noise it isnt going fast,the Gp N cars can be deceptive and if you ever got a run in one you might change your mind and anyway never judge a guy on one junction on a 10 or 12 mile stage take a look and compare the stage times.
what you say there about james coleman is bull as well take for an example in the north there was a young fella 17 or 18 had only done 2 rallies then sat into an evo and won the event,if you had your way he'd be a an old man before he should be able to do it.
at the end of the day ya there are some men with a few pound maybe not the greatest but they have the same right to to compete as any one and they have the sames day craic as any one else, if you put them out of the sport it would alot weaker sport.