Aengus Ó Snodaigh's (Sinn Féin) proposals on airsoft

BornToKill

Yesterday in the Dáil:

A regulation could be introduced requiring imitation firearms, and airsoft guns in particular, to be painted a different colour from genuine firearms. They could, for example, be painted pink or blue. If the guidelines or the draft orders were brought before us, we would be able to discuss these issues. GPS tracking systems could be installed in guns, although practical difficulties arise with some types of weapon. These measures could at least prevent weapons from falling into the hands of children. Airsoft and paintball guns could carry the same restrictions as other weapons in terms of secure storage.

Link:
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20090702.xml&Node=H5&Page=8

Is that blue for the boys then and pink for the girls I wonder? Well, what do you think of the idea?

ravydavygravy

Personally, I have no issue with two tone guns. I'm into airsoft to play the game, not to own a collection of realistic imitation firearms. If the toy gun I'm using is mutli-coloured, so be it - as long as it still shoots straight.

Edit: having read the full debate, it should be noted that Aengus on the whole was arguing for Airsoft and the people involved - his comments above arose when Minister Ahern started going on about how the provisions to potentially ban airsoft in the future needed to be included in the bill due to the rise in popularity of the sport and the possible widespread proliferation of realistic imitation firearms in the future - he was simply proposing some ideas to be considered before banning the sport.

Washington Irving

Thats a silly idea. Imagine going to a skirmish with a blue or pink AEG. It, will ruin airsoft:mad::eek:NNNOOOOO!!!:eek: (Ok, that was a little exaggerated:o) I think every airsofter should have membership to a site which is available to buy on site or off selected retailers. Anyone who wants to buy an AEG must show proof of their membership.

Tommy_NDX

Totally against this. I havn't even started skirmishing yet and i probably won't if this goes through. One of the biggest draws of airsoft is the realism of the game and the equipment and that realism would be ruined with stupidly coloured guns.

Leftyflip

It's a sad day when genuine airsofter's have to buy flourescent Airsoft devices...
Surely we can't have a VCRA/ UKARA thing going on? I would much prefer that.

mle1324

two-tone guns is bull in my opinion.
What they should do is register all airsoft guns bought/sold on a database so the garda knows who owns one.like the buyer shows a ID with there address and the shop staff will add there name,address and type of gun onto that database.

Puding

i was under the impression this idea was agreeded with the doj and iaa as unworkable, you have the small problem that anyone can then paint a realsteel 2 toon also anyone up to no good just needs a tin of spray paint would easily reverse any bright colours that are meant to stop problem, so how would this help?

Bernie Mac

My only problem with two tone aegs and gbbs is the hidden aspect of the thing...by that i mean when i'm stuck in bush in some ditch you are going to notice a small bit of blue pink or bright green much easier than od, tan or black. I'm sure we have all experienced this at some stage or an other and that is my only minor tiff with the idea :rolleyes:

bluestripe93

i wouldnt like pink or blue guns if we had to have some sort of colour on our guns id rather have a bit of orange on the barrel like the americans

edit - two-tone guns can be easily painted black with a bottle of spray paint,the people who use airsoft guns for bad reasons don't care about painting guns they will do what ever they can to make it normal gun colour , they should be something where you have to register it to an address

Stercus Accidit

Criminals will paint real guns to look like toys, that idea only helps them. Gps is completely impossible.

mle1324

and anyway what would be the point on waring camo.

EDIT:like Bernie Mac said you will stick out when hiding in a bush.

Leftyflip

My theory is:
Due to the horrificly negative gun culture in Ireland, the DoJ slowly wants to stamp out airsoft and paintball, firstly by making airsoft devices and paintball markers two-tone, then enforcing a law where all airsoft devices must have a rather stupidly low muzzle velocity...
Oh dear, I forgot to take my tablets again...

heyjay14

It would be f***ing ridiculas if a bill like this was passed, imaging hiding a bush or sumthing completly camoflaged becasue of all the camo you are wearing, ohhh no wait, your not camoflaged at all because you have a bright blue/pink gun in your hands.............

kdouglas

Gps tracking devices in (real) guns? Ahahahahaha

Two tone doesn't work, simple as that. It's pointless and serves only to placate the "won't somebody think of the children" brigade

Leftyflip

Thats why scrim net was invented, but I really dont see this working out,
totally ridiculous, silly thing to do, making AEG's pink...

mle1324

Leftyflip wrote: »

making AEG's pink...

tbh making pink AEG would be gay.

gandalf

Jesus thats fresh from the political party that was a mouthpiece of an organisation who used real arms to kill innocents in this country not too long ago.

Its unworkable for the reasons listed above. Johnny Criminal will spray paint his real glock pink. Well I suppose Sinn Fein have to become a bunch of band wagon jumpers now that they got their asses handed to them in the recent elections.

bullets

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Personally, I have no issue with two tone guns. I'm into airsoft to play the game, not to own a collection of realistic imitation firearms. If the toy gun I'm using is mutli-coloured, so be it - as long as it still shoots straight.

And I am the complete opposite!

where I collect Airsoft gear firstly as I am aiming to get
the most realistic imitation firearm available without needing to go through the hassle of getting Super permissions to own de-act
ie Real firearm that have been certified to be de-activated.

Airsoft started out Perfect for me as someone interested in guns. I could Buy freely something that looked and
sometimes almost felt like the real thing without any
hassles of dealing with the Gardai who more often than
not are clueless with the firearms laws and whats allowed
and whats not allowed when it comes to deactivated real firearms.


~B

Dar

So Sinn Fein have proposed a solution which is unworkable and ineffectual. That's a new one.

fayer

Puding wrote: »

i was under the impression this idea was agreeded with the doj and iaa as unworkable, you have the small problem that anyone can then paint a realsteel 2 toon also anyone up to no good just needs a tin of spray paint would easily reverse any bright colours that are meant to stop problem, so how would this help?

Correct, was talked about and deemed unworkable and would cause diff problems. Deal aggreed on was the current flavor of the mpb limiting sales to airsoft retailers and not any joe soap.

iceage

Sorry lads, but what a load of b0llocks.

To the Article...not you Fayer!!!

Spetzcong

apart from the fact that two-tone guns would be inviting Johnny Criminal to stalk the streets with impunity with his real steel glock painted a jaunty colour, what do Sinn Feinn propose happens to the, at a guess tens of thousands of airsoft devices already in the hands of the public which aren't painted. Will we have to decomission them?

Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about what that shower in Sinn Feinn have to say, they're the political equivalent of that innapropriate drunken uncle that always seems to pop up at weddings.

Shiva

If I'm to be charitable and play devils advocate, I'd have to admit it mostly seems as if they're doing their best to understand something strange and vaguely unsettling, and handle it as best they can without outright banning it, which is to be applauded.

I think all the lobbyists involved, both IAA, IASRA (and yes, that does hurt to admit ) and those who contacted representatives off their own bat, are to be applauded for their work in educating those who drafted and debated this bill in what exactly airsoft is.

Lets be realistic....It could be so, so much worse.

Puding

i don;t know about you but i don;t think its the best idea to lay into someones ideas let alone a politician who along with his party have an input into are future,

someone put forward a couple of ideas to fix a problem, he may not know anything about the good side of airsoft, best thing to do is put forward a strong counter argument and suggest other idea, if you read the whole debate it is clear that is was done

i just think its not best to lay into people for there views and ideas on an open forum

Rob2593

The main and possible only reason I play airsoft is for the sheer realism. If they bring this bill through, thats me gone from airsoft. I love this sport so much, but it's a waste of time buying camo etc if your guns are bright pink or blue. I really really hope this doesn't come through. Holding a airsoft gun that is pink or blue, will only make me feel younger(bad thing for me), stupid'er (if thats a word) and immature.

But if it does i'd say I won't be the only one leaving...

Dar

Having read his comments within the context of the whole debate I'd tend to agree. On the whole the dialogue seems fairly positive, with the emphasis from the opposition being on what assurances can be given to retailers and site owners that their livelihoods will not be threatened by these measures.

I think he may not be aware of how much communcation there has been between the DoJ and airsoft related lobbyists with regards this legislation, and that this solution, along with others, has already been considered and rejected as unworkable.

Dar

Rob2593 wrote: »

The main and possible only reason I play airsoft is for the sheer realism. If they bring this bill through, thats me gone from airsoft. I love this sport so much, but it's a waste of time buying camo etc if your guns are bright pink or blue. I really really hope this doesn't come through. Holding a airsoft gun that is pink or blue, will only make me feel younger(bad thing for me), stupid'er (if thats a word) and immature.

But if it does i'd say I won't be the only one leaving...

Two-tone guns are not in the bill. That was merely a possible solution brought up by the opposition during the debate on the MPB.

Hivemind187

This was presented and rejected 2 years ago as unworkable. While it is fair to say that the overall tone is better than what we have seen in the past it is still no excuse for a supposed representative of the people to be ignorant of the core facts of a topic they are discussing.

Quazzie

This could never be passed as for one thing, who manufactures pink or blue guns. Most guns come from Asia and arrive in colours decided by them, not us, and certainly not Sinn Fein. Are they going to intercept evert import, spray it, before passing it on to the buyer? It'd never work on so many levels.

If they install GPS they would have to supply chargers for the GPS, that is providing they can get GPS devices small enough to fit in an airsoft gun.

To me the most logical route is to restrict sale and distrubution of airsoft guns to registered licences retailer, who in turn require ID for every purchase. This however is on the assumption that they are restricting the sales to over 18s only, which in itself might not prove so popular. But sure fúck it, under 18s can't vote.

Spetzcong

Puding wrote: »

i don;t know about you but i don;t think its the best idea to lay into someones ideas let alone a politician who along with his party have an input into are future,

someone put forward a couple of ideas to fix a problem, he may not know anything about the good side of airsoft, best thing to do is put forward a strong counter argument and suggest other idea, if you read the whole debate it is clear that is was done

i just think its not best to lay into people for there views and ideas on an open forum

You're right, my comments about shinners were motivated by my own political leanings and had nothing to do with the debate which yerman took part in, for the most part I'm pleased that people were able to discuss airsoft reasonably without resorting to the old "ban them, they're the work of the Devil!" that we've seen in the past.

I still think that two-tone guns not only destroy the spirit of the sport, hobbling it, and effectively stopping it's development in it's tracks, but would prove to be a very real danger to the public from the point of view of real criminals being able to disguise lethal weapons as toys by means of a simple paint job, but fair play to the youngster for raising the issue as a possible solution to the problem, much better than some of the "solutions" to the "problem" of airsoft we've heard in the past.

CrazyRabbit

You'd think a Sinn Fein politician would know a little bit more about guns!

Obviously this particular politician is not the kind who thinks things through before opening his mouth. Colouring the guns will not in any way, shape of form, prevent them from being misused. A simple can of black spray paint will make such guns look like real-steel once more.

If we paint all the knives in our kitchen pink, would it reduce the number of stabbings?

TheDoc

Its a tough one for sure, but I do not think that they consider the long term problems to their solutions they give us.

It is all well and good saying they could put a GPS tracking system into a rifle. But who controls viewing of the gps unit, retailers? guardai?

It is all well and good saying every sale should be recorded and details taken, then the pressure is on the retailers to have a properly functioning filing system, to which adheres to Data protection policy.

I can tell you from my time working in retail Data protection is a big thing, and the first thing a customer will blarp out in relation to having a complaint or query ( usually don't know what they are talking about, from the Argos days anyway).

But it is not as simlpe as a filing cabinet and your laughing. And with a GPS system more security measures must be put in place. It is more added pressure and problems for retailers, and more expenditure that is completely avoidable and unnecasarry.

Also purchasing two tone guns would have to be done from alternate suppliers in the world, who do not possess the same quantities as current normal wholesalers, therefore costing more money, which would probably have to be inevitably passed onto the customer.

For a government and dail who are always harping on about the recession, they should take a second to reflect on their comments, and realise their unnecessary ridic comments are at the end of the day putting more financial pressure on small independently run business'.

IronWolf

Painting the guns doesn't solve anything more than painting the tips red does, I would also like to know how painting the guns in day-glow colours will help keep them out of childeren's hands :rolleyes:

That said though, I'm all for enforcing safer storage and keeping them out of the hands of minor's, just don't agree with his suggested methods.

Also, I can't help but feel that they're exhausting too much time & energy on airsoft when they could be using that same time & energy on thwarting/ preventing the illegal smuggling of real firearms.

bullets

Wondering what peeps mean when they say secure or safer storage of airsoft gear? I for one do NOT want to see us
being forced to have the same requirements as Real Steel
if it came to secure storage for Cost reasons alone.

if the powers that be decide all of a sudden they
want people to start locking things away in cabinets ets
that is going to be Pricey!

eg I paid over 300 Euros for a gun cabinet that will only
hold 3 guns comfortably and its bolted to a concrete floor and wall for "secure storage"

Not sure what people suggest for safer storage, Its
grand if you only have a few AEG's it they are easy to lock up but if like myself you have around 35-40 of the things
the it becomes a bit of a pain.

~B

Hivemind187

bullets wrote: »

Wondering what peeps mean when they say secure or safer storage of airsoft gear? I for one do NOT want to see us
being forced to have the same requirements as Real Steel
if it came to secure storage for Cost reasons alone.

if the powers that be decide all of a sudden they
want people to start locking things away in cabinets ets
that is going to be Pricey!

eg I paid over 300 Euros for a gun cabinet that will only
hold 3 guns comfortably and its bolted to a concrete floor and wall for "secure storage"

Not sure what people suggest for safer storage, Its
grand if you only have a few AEG's it they are easy to lock up but if like myself you have around 35-40 of the things
the it becomes a bit of a pain.

~B

Tbh BUllets I dont think most people think it through. It sounds great to say "yes, we want more security" but very few people think about what that actuallyu means.

GPS tags for example ... not exactly secure is it? A bit like the trick theives were pulling with bluetooth laptops. Wander around in a carpark long enough with a Bluetooth mobile and wait fo it to connect to a laptop - bingo! Now you know which car to break into. Same thing GPS, figure out what frequnecy its transmitting on and then have a bimble 'round to nick 'em.

MKIII

>< should have known something like this would happen.But damm so soon after i started skirmishing ><
I'd rather burn my m14 than paint it pink.Paid enough for it
Though isn't there some pink colour that the SS or SAS used to paint their jeeps in the desrts that deflected light in a ay making it hard to see?.
Then again pink gun+ woodlad ghillie = ??

Smokerkl

Long wheeled base Land rover 110 aka THE PINKIE-- Apparently its nearly invisble in the desert what the sun shimmer and glow and stuff!!
Doubt it would work on a pink gun on a gloomy sunday afternoon in rain drenched Cork though!!
S..

Found this for sale built of genuine parts from scrapped pinkies at hereford.

bullets

Bring on the Mauve and green camoflauge Loadouts! that would be interesting.

~B

Quazzie

Irish Airsoft BDU??

Baltrux

Absolutly fab, Quazzie!!!Lol. puts it into perspective. I understand where they are coming from even if they are clutcing at straws I really hope the work the IAA are doing is taken into concideration and bears fruit. My local credit union was held up with a hammer and a skrewdriver which goes to show that criminals will use anything they can get their hands on.

Stercus Accidit

Baltrux wrote: »

Absolutly fab, Quazzie!!!Lol. puts it into perspective. I understand where they are coming from even if they are clutcing at straws I really hope the work the IAA are doing is taken into concideration and bears fruit. My local credit union was held up with a hammer and a skrewdriver which goes to show that criminals will use anything they can get their hands on.

Bearing in mind people have been killed with screwdrivers and hammers, an airsoft gun is harmless.

I'd rather be scared in a robbery than killed, and besides, criminals break the law, we already have the laws in place, any more legislation punishes legal and responsible airsofters only.

Baltrux

"Bearing in mind people have been killed with screwdrivers and hammers, an airsoft gun is harmless.

I'd rather be scared in a robbery than killed"
Thats a very good point

My point about the hammer and skrewdriver was that no matter what amount of legistation is made concerning airsoft criminals will use anything to get what they want and cause harm.

I wonder if you had to have membership of an IAA aproved site to buy aeg's, it's something that alot of sites are doing now anyway(memberships) so there wouldn't be to much extra involved, just a thought.

Gizmodeon

In fairness, the collector side of the debate is putting airsoft in favor more.
The DOJ I'm sure would prefer to have a collector more interested in collecting toys and displaying them in their homes, than a real or de-activated firearm.
The reason why people collect airsoft for the realism, is because you don't have the hooha of getting a liscence, and getting a safe.

This side of the coin makes it look better to have airsoft around. Would you prefer to know your neighbors collect toys, or real firearms?

TheDoc

Gizmodeon wrote: »

.

This side of the coin makes it look better to have airsoft around. Would you prefer to know your neighbors collect toys, or real firearms?

What importance does that have in fairness?

Neighbours on each side of my home collect and use real firearms. I'm safe in knowing one of them is a police officer and the other one is a competitive shooter. So I know they are safely locked away ( one of them have an underground room for his equipment).

It is actually probably horrible to make a point that Airsoft collectors just leave them knocking about the house or hanging on a wall. I'm sure if that was brought forward, you might hear silly comments about requiring lock boxes or safes for airsoft equipment which would be an absolute disaster.

From what I can gather, and has already been mentioned in this thread, when the proposal was put forward about two toning guns, it was discussed between the IAA and Doj and an agreement was reached that it was not plausible.

But I would love to see what a game would be like with pink AEG's etc :P

Smokerkl

But I would love to see what a game would be like with pink AEG's etc :P[/QUOTE]

Maybe this???

IronWolf

Smokerkl wrote: »

But I would love to see what a game would be like with pink AEG's etc :P

Maybe this???http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/smokerkl/pink.jpg?t=1246889766

Funny thing about that pic is that its of a real gun! If anything, it only further proves that painting airsoft guns in bright colours won't be doing anyone any favors (Gardai or otherwise).

Rew

He's a thick, Sinn Fein is full of them this is why no one should ever vote for them even if its a choice between them and FF. How ever if the people he's talking about (Airsofters and shooters) proved to be a big enough group they would flip in a second and be on our side unitill the nexty band waggon roles by.

Baltrux

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Bearing in mind people have been killed with screwdrivers and hammers, an airsoft gun is harmless.

I'd rather be scared in a robbery than killed, and besides, criminals break the law, we already have the laws in place, any more legislation punishes legal and responsible airsofters only.

This really got me thinking last night, just who is this new legistation aimed at?

We've all seen just how easy it seems to be to get your hands on any amount of real guns illegally, so if criminals wanted to, they are in the right circles. There are so many everyday objects that can be used to cause serious injury and death, as well as all sorts of knives which can be sold over the counter to anybody over 18 legally! If a criminal uses an airsoft pistol he/she is using it for the "scare" factor only and I would have to agree with Stercus Accidit I would rather be scared in a robbery than killed!!!

I don't think it matters if you are a skimisher or just a collector as you can see from the last few posts you have different sports and interestes involving firearms and replicias, I live in a rural area and I would have no problem getting a shotgun licence. So long as people adhere to the laws concerning their sport and act in a responceble way there should be no problem its when people don't that problems arise.

Puding

I would have to agree with Stercus Accidit I would rather be scared in a robbery than killed!!!

I'd rather be scared in a robbery than killed"
Thats a very good point

The issue with that point although it is true, im shore it is not a pov that would be going thought a person head being robbed at the time, i get people saying ow its easy to spot an airsoft device, even if people knew what to look for do you really think there going to be looking for signs its a gbb, let alone the arms response units that go out to incidents, and maybe have to deal with this, they can not respond to reports thinking its ok it could be an airsoft device, id rather be scared at a call out rather than killed, they only find out if its real or not after the incident is over.

But then again a lot of the things brought in are there to make it easy for customs and the government in a lot of way they just want to make it someone else responsibility

Stercus Accidit

In reality this was proposed and declined already because it is a stupid idea, this low level politician was giving a stupid suggestion and passed it on stupidly.

Airsoft was not seen as a well organised group of intelligent individuals, it was seen as a scapegoat, the worst kind of scapegoat, the kind you think that you can make the most ill informed and stupid suggestions about legislating without expecting a backlash.


This is an already discussed and rejected idea by more important and informed sorts than this guy. This is just a sinn feiner regurgitating a dead idea 6 months later and looking a bit stupid, his researcher will be feeling uncomfortable I imagine.


No issue here, a better use of our time is to count how many times I used the word stupid in this post, I felt it appropriate

Fallschirmjager

the real issue here is the only people who will obey the 2 tone rule are the same ones that obey the law as it stands, namely you and me.

The trick in criminality is not targetting the lawful but the unlawful. however yet again we have TD's who want the 2 inch banner headline vote grab by using something like this as a hammer blow to smack the law abiding as if somehow that is going to stop the law breaker.

2 tone in the history of dumb ideas is right up there with the coca cola executive who thought the whole 'pepsi' thing would never catch on and they should not buy them out...

mr o snodaigh, if you think this will work...i have an island i can sell you or i can put you in contact with a nigerian general with 15 million he wants to give you...

what next the new law to ban b&q metal cote sprays??