**** you Street Fighter IV shortcuts

Azza

Die!

Cunny-Funt

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Yeah I agree with you Cunny, I don't define a lenient input system only by frame windows. I think we're actually agreeing with each other and just miscommunicating tbh.

Maybe this is the case alright lol

Dreddybajs wrote: »

edit: Can't you throw Bison after a blocked slide?

The evil mofo recovers so fast that the throw will generally tech

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Also I think you see people playing him defensively because that's the way SF4 is designed, rather than the way the character is.

Well... yeah but hes...still.. playing.. defensively?... right? He's running away from me like lol... not saying all bison players play him like this, some do jump at you and get stuck in there. Or others are just bad/new and randomly attack and never block.

Azza wrote: »

**...Eh cough, negative edge ensures you never get teleport cough...**

Wha? Ah g'way outta that now azza you can't deny the shortcuts can be a problem for bison players, more so the newer ones until they get used to entering it slower to ensure to land it on the forward and not the down forward.

Bison is usually one of the main examples brought up when talking about the short cuts:

.....in every Street Fighter before this one, as long as it ended in "Forward" of some sort, it would go off. It would work in this game too (Which is why UF works) if not for the short cut. The SHORTCUT is superceding the natural input engine which would normally see a "DF" as a "Down-Forward" and go" "Ah, he wants to do an Ultra, which would end in Forward. I get it. Here you go Dictator, here's your Ultra which you requested, sloppily but ****it, enjoy."

Instead the dumb bitch goes. "Oh, looks like he went Down-Forward again let me summon up an Ultr~... oh wait, I just got this memo here. Uhm, let's see Down-Forward after Back.... a Dragon Punch motion? Well that doesn't make any sense you sure? Hold on a second, where is that num.... ah, ok... yeah Capcom? Oh John wussup? Yeah this guy here seems to have done a sloppy Ultra motion like he's been doing for years and usually I'd giv... yeah i t's about the new short cuts. Yeah.... yeah.... yeah I got the memo says to do a Dragon Punch but I thought that was Forward, then Down... ok.... I see. Well, I think it'd be kind of messed up cuz if I give him the DP he's going to Teleport. Yeah.... Yeah it'd be funny as hell, but it's kind of ****ed up you know? Yeah I know. Well it's not your fault. How the kids doin'? That's good man. Well I'll be seeing ya at the company Christmas party this year right? Ok then. I'll talk to ya la...yeah whatever you bum haha ok, bye. Oh well, here it is, a nice ol Teleport for ya big man. New Capcom policy. Oh ****, there it goes. Damn, KO'd by a scrubby Ken. That's gotta suck."

animaX wrote: »

Yeah hows it goin I'm still in DCU and still can't connect. However, I'll be bringing the xbox Anniversary edition with third strike to the meet up tomorrow if you're going. We can play a few then. But bear in mind that I can't play online so I'm probably not very competitive

Was thinkin of joining DCU gamesoc but I thought they play more fps's and stuff?

Well unless I can use my ps3 pad , I may as well try and play the game with my arse! Lol but I dunno for sure if I'll be there or not tomorrow.

Indeed the gamesoc mostly play...halo and cs and ....rock band and **** but they do play some fighting games and SFIV, thats why I joined them last year but of course totally missed the one SFIV event. I'm gonna join them again though and try to play in the next one!

Dreddybajs

If you watch any tournament Bison videos they'll generally be putting a lot of pressure on - what I mean is it's quite tough to play that way and if you mess up your links you're screwed, so worse players can't really play that way because of how turtley SF4 is.

edit: eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWAPsF738N8

blag

Kirby wrote: »

This is hard to explain I suppose.....

Ya know when some people moan about Zangief and Sagat? They get beaten and think to themselves, "That guy wasn't better than me.....he just did the same thing over and over....and it worked! How hard can it be?"

Thats how i feel about bison. Its a personal thing. I've been beaten by some terrible bisons online. Yes, its my fault too but thats just the way it is. Scissors kick is just so safe on block. You can control headstomp and decide where you want to land if you change your mind.

Atleast Zangief has to close range to do damage. When players Lariat spam me, I just duck and punch. When Sagat's tiger spam, I yoga tower, Jump drill, or slide under and punish.

It just feels that when I fight against Bison players, they dont even have to work hard. Ive been working hard to overcome my shortcomings in the matchup but its just so infuriating to have so much trouble against a simple combo string of low kick scissor, followed by ex scissor, followed by low kick scissor, etc.

I know you got a bit frustrated with Bisons headstomp/DR mix-ups the last day we were playing online but it's not as simple as controlling a headstomp and controlling where it lands,that's not possible(the headstopm,both normal and EX, track to where the opponent was when the command is input,it's not possible to do anything if the opponent moves back/forward but wait to be punished)

The Devils Reverse is obviously controllable but not to any great extent and it's very punishable on block.The only other option then is the ol' classic(patented) empty devils reverse to throw,which isn't that hard to spot as it looks different to his normal jump and he makes a kinda "ugh" sound.

That match up has problems for Bison too,it can be difficult to get in and it's usually a case of 'Sim getting a life lead and Bison coming after him from my experience.

It's a known fact that Bison is mentally,physically,tactically and execution wise the most demanding character in anything...ever so:p
Whereas 'Sim is a skinny w****r.(lies)

blag

"Wha? Ah g'way outta that now azza you can't deny the shortcuts can be a problem for bison players, more so the newer ones until they get used to entering it slower to ensure to land it on the forward and not the down forward.

Bison is usually one of the main examples brought up when talking about the short cuts: "

That is a really annoying issue,It's been a while since i've messed it up now but the ST way of juggling the super from jump mp x 2 is still engrained it me and I have to remind myself all the time not to hold down back after a jump if I'm to combo from a potential juggle scenario.

Kirby

blag wrote: »

it's not as simple as controlling a headstomp and controlling where it lands,that's not possible(the headstopm,both normal and EX, track to where the opponent was when the command is input,it's not possible to do anything if the opponent moves back/forward but wait to be punished)

If I dash or slide forward, you can choose to stop mid flight and come down on top of me. Thats fairly lethal. Atleast when blanka does his rainbow ball, or cammy does ex hooligan, or Sakura does her leg spaz attack, they can't change their minds halfway through. Its so annoying.

blag

Kirby wrote: »

If I dash or slide forward, you can choose to stop mid flight and come down on top of me. Thats fairly lethal. Atleast when blanka does his rainbow ball, or cammy does ex hooligan, or Sakura does her leg spaz attack, they can't change their minds halfway through. Its so annoying.

That's only the case for devils reverse,once the stomp starts it hits,is blocked or whiffs.

Kirby

Yes but you can choose to do devils reverse instead and it just makes it so hard to know what to do. I realise its not as cut and dry as it would appear..... its just all part of the difficulty. They all look the bloody same !

blag

Kirby wrote: »

Yes but you can choose to do devils reverse instead and it just makes it so hard to know what to do.

Backdash is what most people tend to do if theres any uncertainty,covers all bases.

Really what I'm just saying is that Bison isn't THAT easy,it's not just a case of lk scissors combo,a stomp/DR mix up and you've learned Bison.

Kirby

I know...its just..... listen to this.

Blanka ball is punishable on block.
Ryu hurricane kick is punishable on block.
Zangief lariat is punishable on block.
Cammy cannon strike is punishable on block.
Fei Long rekka is punishable on block.
Honda Headbutt is punishable on block.
Akuma double kick is punishable on block.
Abel wheel kick and Change of direction is punishable on block.
Balrog Turn punch is punishable on block.
Even Sagats Tiger Knee is punishable on block.
Bison Scissors kick is safe from nearly any distance.

Grinds my gears

blag

Kirby wrote: »

I know...its just..... listen to this.

Blanka ball is punishable on block.
Ryu hurricane kick is punishable on block.
Zangief lariat is punishable on block.
Cammy cannon strike is punishable on block.
Fei Long rekka is punishable on block.
Honda Headbutt is punishable on block.
Akuma double kick is punishable on block.
Abel wheel kick and Change of direction is punishable on block.
Balrog Turn punch is punishable on block.
Bison Scissors kick is safe from nearly any distance.

Grinds my gears

Mk scissors punishable on block.
RH Scissors punishable on block.
All psycho crushers(not EX) punishable on block.
Devils Reverse punishable on block.

The likes of Roses and the short version of Vipers forward pokey thing(don't know its name) are safe on block along with others in the game.EDIT:Isn't Sagats lk tiger knee safe too?

I'm starding to feel like Bisons attorney."Mr Bison(Dictator) is not a crook":pac:

Kirby

Discussion is good

Yeh Sagats light kick knee is safe. but bisons scissors has more range and is more dangerous.

And you dont need MK or HK scissors. You can just slide into range or use EX scissors and bam, LK combo.:p

Dreddybajs

Yeah scissors isn't nearly as safe as you make out - also you can't just "choose" to do a DR after you've pressed u+kick, which is what it made it seem like you were saying before (that you can "control the headstomp" after you're in the air - you can't, this is impossible).

Kirby

I know.... there are slight animation differences and I think a slightly different sound.....but the choice between em makes it tricky to react and all adds to the confusion of what to do. I'm getting better at it though.

Dreddybajs

Also I'd say Sagat's kara-cancelled LK tiger knee has a lot more range than LK scissors.

Azza

Bison can't teleport using negative edge but you can get the ultra. If you fluff the ultra with negative edge simply nothing happens. I don't have the issue of getting teleport when I want ultra anymore.

The whole concept about Bison is mind games, like Blanka only Bison has class Blanka is just an asshole. Bison has 10 wrong options, but there only wrong if you guess right. He needs to trick you putting yourself in a bad position. A good Bison is one that hides his intentions well for he is indeed a crafty dictator who's scheming know no bounds.

As for whats punishable and not.
Rumor going round that Vega can kara throw punish Bisons lk scissors. Never seen it happen though.
Ex scissors is not safe.

Cammy lk spiral arrow is safe but can be focus attacks. Here mk and hk spiral arrow have to be spaced to be safe as they hit twice. But they can't be focus attacked.

All tigers knees can be safe if spaced. If a tiger knee is only block once its safe.

Giefs green hand is unsafe on hit!

Not sure on the Sim Vs Dic match up. Not really any experience in it.

Kirby

apparently its 5-5 but Im not buying that.

And I have thrown LK scissors several times. Ask Blag Only on startup though and its usually jammy as all sin. You see the little whirlwind puff of smoke as he gets thrown.

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

Ex scissors is not safe.

It is against sim. My quickest move has three frame startup and its short range....too short range as the blocked EX scissors creates too much space for it to hit.

Dreddybajs

Azza wrote: »

Cammy lk spiral arrow is safe but can be focus attacks. Here mk and hk spiral arrow have to be spaced to be safe as they hit twice. But they can't be focus attacked.

Any blocked spiral arrow is a free SPD for Gief afaik.

Cunny-Funt

Its settled then lads, Bison is hacks and needs to be banned from SFIV tournies wha?

Hhehehehehe.

<_<

>_>

A....Azza? Whats that evil glow in your eyes!? Gasp* THAT GRIN! That EVIL GRIN! ..Wha, what was that? This place shall become my what? I can't really hear you over all the manic evil laughter, whats that purple stuff? Hey your flyinAAAAAAAAAAH! MY FACE AAAAAAAAAAGH HE'S STOMPING ON MY FAAAAACEEEEE AAAARGHHH YET HIS ARMS REMAIN FOOOOLDDDDDEEEEED AAAAAAAAAArrrrghhhhh

bush

Lk scissors kick must be the safest move in the game, **** that move. That and lk spiral arrow are the most annoying moves in the game. Besides all abels moves.

Cunny-Funt

hehe

bush

Kirby wrote: »

Blanka ball is punishable on block.

And on hit with a lot of characters. I hit someone with a ball and get an ultra in return. What idiot thought that was fair?

Kirby

yeh thats so unfair. Sometimes you land on my fireball after a block /hit and thats fair enough coz thats why i stick it out there...... but to be punished with a normal or special after hitting when some moves are safe even on block, is a little unfair really.