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Is my job taking the piss?

  • 02-07-2009 03:21PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭


    hi all..

    right i have just been rejected by the bank again with my application for mortgage.. apparently my wages are crap so im a risk...

    im 31 years old and time is ticking.. i earn crap money but am lucky to have a job..
    i work for an IT dept in a huge financial company and have just under 4 years service, and im on.. wait for it... 23 and a half grand a year :-(
    my job includes doing a few jobs..
    Network Administrator
    Telephony engineer
    Desktop support
    and some facility work
    yet my wages reflect that of a dude in the mail room..

    i have a lot of mates that are unemployed and are claiming every benifit under the sun, and in 1 instance one of my mates actually comes out with more than me after tax, and he sits on his leather lazyboy couch all day playing his playstation 3 on his 50" flat screen??
    i dont even own a tv..
    i work my ass off for this job and this year they put a freeze on wage increases, dont get me wrong im lucky to have a job, but are they really taking the piss?

    the banks will only allow you to repay till the age of 65.. giving me 34 years from now to get fully repaid.. if i dont start earning some serious green im destand to a life of rented accommodation.

    should i quit my respectable job and sponge off the system? should i do drug runs down from dublin every month? rob a bank? how the hell am i supposed to make the money i need to live in a company thats telling me there is a freeze on wage increases?

    i feel like a sucker breaking my balls every week when my mates are all off living the life and telling me "everyday" how good it is to not be working.. :(


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭Shiny


    Do your wages reflect the qualifications that you have ?

    Perhaps you could do some additional courses to increase
    your qualifications which, when combined with your valuable
    amount of experience would put you in a stronger position to
    get higher wages in the bank.

    In this way by the time you finish them, the economy will
    have (hopefully) begun to improve giving you the opportunity
    to move to another organisation with higher wages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    No company is going to raise wages in this climate. Its not a personal reflection on you, its just economics.
    if i dont start earning some serious green im destand to a life of rented accommodation.

    God, lucky, lucky you. I have a mortgage and while its not the worst, its still no bundle of laughs knowing I am stuck in the place I chose when everyone was living high on the hog. Like many I bought the place thinking it would just be a stepping stone and now Im stuck in an unserviced estate with no real public transport shops or amenities.

    Im jealous of my fancy free renting mates who can pick and choose big houses with a garden in a quiet well serviced area convenient to town with no blerdy motorway noise reverberating through the place.

    Seriously, owning your own gaff at the moment is more of a prision than a utopia. Bloom where you are planted until the recession is over!

    The grass is not always greener on the other side!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    No company is going to raise wages in this climate. Its not a personal reflection on you, its just economics.

    I just wanted to point out that this is a gross generalisation. While it may be overwhelmingly true, say no company will do it is wrong. I've just negotiated a pay rise myself so it's doable.

    To the OP. With regards to taking the piss, off the bat I'd say yes, but would need to know more about your qualifications and more importantly, your experience.

    With regards to owning your own home, Oh The Humanity is correct. It's not all it's cracked up to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭skooterblue



    right i have just been rejected by the bank again with my application for mortgage.. apparently my wages are crap so im a risk...

    You and everyone else, there is no money going around even for people with a good credit rating.
    im 31 years old and time is ticking.. i earn crap money but am lucky to have a job..
    i work for an IT dept in a huge financial company and have just under 4 years service, and im on.. wait for it... 23 and a half grand a year :-(
    my job includes doing a few jobs..
    Network Administrator
    Telephony engineer
    Desktop support
    and some facility work
    yet my wages reflect that of a dude in the mail room..
    (
    I think you should just be grateful you have a job. I have less than you and If I had the oppertunity you had of Getting a job in IT before 9/11 I would have taken it. Just be glad you are getting expereince. This credit crunch will be over in time but you will have your experince and your matees will have a beer gut and a worn PS3.

    your mates, are putting a brave face on it. yes its fun having no responsibility's for a few weeks. Then reality sets in and you get seriously depressed. Go make the best of your fox hole for the next few year and you will be the first off you feet. Dont end up like my dad and say this is where I am and this is where I'll be. Take a new up skills course pay for it yourself if you have to and get ready for the day an interviewer asks you what skills do have and what expereince you have. I garuntee nothing looks worse on a CV then big gaps in unemployment.

    keep you chin up, up grade your skills and be on the look out for the next big thing in a few years. As for the mortgage, do you really want something that is going to be on a steady down climb over the next few years? Do you want the pressure of something you cant really afford?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Mate you are 23...whats the hurry to have a 35 year mortgage around your neck???

    Have some fun, enjoy your 20s, go travelling...:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 442 ✭✭puglover


    Would depend on your experience & qualifications but given that you have at least 4 years experience in the role it does sound a little low.

    OTOH, you're better off without the mortgage. I bought into the whole Irish obsession with owning their own land and I'm regretting it now. You're better off renting, can't take it with you when you're gone ( and your landlord is responsible for the maintenance of the property)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Mate you are 23...whats the hurry to have a 35 year mortgage around your neck???

    Have some fun, enjoy your 20s, go travelling...:)

    OP said he was 31 actually.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭mandysmithers


    Mate you are 23...whats the hurry to have a 35 year mortgage around your neck???

    Have some fun, enjoy your 20s, go travelling...:)

    He said he's EARNING 23 grand, and he's 31.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Sorry my mistake....:o

    23.5 grand a year at 31...thats not good mate. Have you thought about further education, what are your qualifications?

    I remember 8/9 years ago anyone who cld plug in a phone was calling themselves an IT Consultant.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    TBH with your experience it's pretty poor. I was earning more than that as a grad.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    TBH with your experience it's pretty poor. I was earning more than that as a grad.

    Yeh lads but thats comparing apples with oranges! What we all earned and expected a few years back bears no resemblance to now!

    A few years back I would have been considered a pauper in relation to my peers, now Im lucky to earn a decent wage in comparison.

    I know there are always the exceptions and its worth prodding about to see if there is a bit more in the budget for you next year. But dont prod too hard as they may just manage you out.

    Tread carefully. Be realistic.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Yeh lads but thats comparing apples with oranges! What we all earned and expected a few years back bears no resemblance to now!

    A few years back I would have been considered a pauper in relation to my peers, now Im lucky to earn a decent wage in comparison.

    I know there are always the exceptions and its worth prodding about to see if there is a bit more in the budget for you next year. But dont prod too hard as they may just manage you out.

    Tread carefully. Be realistic.

    Not really he's been in the job four years so he started in the "good times"
    He should be on a lot more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Begin jobhunting on the side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    Not really he's been in the job four years so he started in the "good times"
    He should be on a lot more.

    Thats my point what he 'should be' on makes no difference. The profit margins may be so tight that he is lucky to be getting what he is.

    Im not saying its right, I have no sympathy for management. Im just saying use the noggin if he is going to ask for a raise.

    Dont go in all guns blazing going 'I should be on this or that' -management may well just say......'look we dont need you'

    Remember there are thousands lined up behind him who would take his job, sh1t wages and all, in a heartbeat. Its about having a bit of nous.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Thats my point what he 'should be' on makes no difference. The profit margins may be so tight that he is lucky to be getting what he is.

    Im not saying its right, I have no sympathy for management. Im just saying use the noggin if he is going to ask for a raise.

    Dont go in all guns blazing going 'I should be on this or that' -management may well just say......'look we dont need you'

    Remember there are thousands lined up behind him who would take his job, sh1t wages and all, in a heartbeat. Its about having a bit of nous.

    I'm not saying he should be going in all guns blazing, but I'm wondering why if he's worked there for 4 years 3 of which were pretty good why is he on such poor money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP what qualifications do you have? Have you looked for another job with better income? Most people do so in ordetr to progress. What training have you done to help you progress your career. Unless you show initiative businesses are happy to leave you be.

    Get off you backside and start helping yourself don't wait around for it to fall in our lap


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    hi all..

    right i have just been rejected by the bank again with my application for mortgage.. apparently my wages are crap so im a risk...

    im 31 years old and time is ticking.. i earn crap money but am lucky to have a job..
    i work for an IT dept in a huge financial company and have just under 4 years service, and im on.. wait for it... 23 and a half grand a year :-(
    my job includes doing a few jobs..
    Network Administrator
    Telephony engineer
    Desktop support
    and some facility work
    yet my wages reflect that of a dude in the mail room..

    i have a lot of mates that are unemployed and are claiming every benifit under the sun, and in 1 instance one of my mates actually comes out with more than me after tax, and he sits on his leather lazyboy couch all day playing his playstation 3 on his 50" flat screen??
    i dont even own a tv..
    i work my ass off for this job and this year they put a freeze on wage increases, dont get me wrong im lucky to have a job, but are they really taking the piss?

    the banks will only allow you to repay till the age of 65.. giving me 34 years from now to get fully repaid.. if i dont start earning some serious green im destand to a life of rented accommodation.

    should i quit my respectable job and sponge off the system? should i do drug runs down from dublin every month? rob a bank? how the hell am i supposed to make the money i need to live in a company thats telling me there is a freeze on wage increases?

    i feel like a sucker breaking my balls every week when my mates are all off living the life and telling me "everyday" how good it is to not be working.. :(

    Yes they are. That's crap money, you are being screwed. Get another job offer and see what management do then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    I'm not saying he should be going in all guns blazing, but I'm wondering why if he's worked there for 4 years 3 of which were pretty good why is he on such poor money.

    Oh I get you now. Well, of course he should have gone in long before this juncture and sorted it out, ask and you shall receive and all that.....

    Chances are a bit up in smoke now probably.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭sunnyside


    Mena wrote: »
    With regards to owning your own home, Oh The Humanity is correct. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

    I was like that, wanting my own house, nothing or nobody could have changed my mind, it was basically all I wanted. Eventually I got it and despite all the negatives at the moment I'd do it all again.

    OP could you apply for a mortgage with somebody else?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Firstly OP, yep, that money sucks, but... look on the bright side. It's absolutely true you're lucky not to have the burden of a mortgage at the moment. The axe is hanging over a lot of people's jobs - pretty much everyone's really, apart from those in permanent state jobs (and even then, not 100% across the board). Now, imagine losing your job and having mortgage repayments... The people I know of in that position are at the point of being seriously ill from stress at this stage. It's not nice.
    I think you should just be grateful you have a job.
    I disagree with "grateful" but "glad" is certainly how I'd put it. Yep OP, be glad you're still in employment - I'd even go as far as to say "count yourself lucky". No, you shouldn't feel grateful - you worked hard to get that job, but the way things are, you're lucky to still have it. Being unemployed is horrific if you've even the faintest bit of ambition (I don't have a huge amount of ambition and I found being unemployed unbearable - I don't understand how anyone could enjoy it unless they've loads of really cool stuff to do every day).
    Have you looked for another job with better income? Most people do so in order to progress.
    professore wrote: »
    Get another job offer
    :confused:
    There aren't other jobs...

    OP, sit tight. Things will change for you - they always do, the only constant is change. And (yeah, sorry) when you least expect it. I think that's about enough clichés for this evening. :D
    Do courses, as others have recommended. Also, keep looking out for better jobs because even though there's bugger all out there, something will come up eventually.
    Do you have a girlfriend? If so, would you consider renting a place with just her if you don't already?
    Lots and lots of people your age and older rent nowadays - because buying is just too damned expensive. It's kinda looked down upon, but that's just a cultural thing in this country I'd imagine. On the continent, renting is the norm for all age groups, even families.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭Wagon


    I work in the same sector as you. My last job before i got laid off was the phone support and hardware engineer bloke. Nothing incredably demanding and not something i needed a degree for, even though i had one. Im about 10 years younger than you and my starting wage was 25k per year. Degree's are often useless where IT is concerned (unless you're a programmer) and 80% of the time don't reflect on someone's actual ability with a computer. You have vast experience in some very important areas of IT which is valuable of any company.

    So to answer you're question: you're job is absolutely taking the piss.

    Just because it's a recession is no excuse to be getting robbed every week. People telling you that you are lucky to have a job are lying out their arses here and i bet the ones that do it are you're managers? While i wouldn't advise robbing a bank and selling drugs, i do advise you to ask them for a pay rise. You should be on at least 30k at this stage, possibly more. if they don't give it to you, quit. Claim benifits while you look for work. Don't feel guilty about it. You've been paying tax for years so think of this as you're tax coming back to you, and you're claiming it off the people who got us all into this bloody mess so no guilt required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    I would look at your job spec, are you doing more than what it states?
    Are you earning any money for the company? I would take a look at what I do and write down my contribution and length of service and then go to HR. Tell them you are applying for a mortgage and that your wages wont cover it. Maybe you could discuss it casually with someone from HR, let them know you love your job but let them know you are valuable, and that your wages should reflect this. you must ahve been on what, 20k starting? Tell them you understand that these are difficult times but (refer to your job spec and any extras you do) you think you should be on more. Dont go there saying "more money or I'll walk" because they might take you up on it.

    Regarding all your friends on social welfare, do you really want to be sitting around, sleeping late every day, no motivation to do anything, it gets boring fast. i was looking for a job for 6 weeks and it did my head in (that included a 10 day holiday) Trust me its not all its cracked up to be and I think if you quit you aren't entitled to the dole (open to corrections) plus there are thousands waiting to be processed so you would be facing an average of 8 weeks before you get anything (depending on area)

    Ring a few agencies, set up a few interviews, call in sick, and assess your options. If you get a better job offer you can use it to bargain for a pay rise and if they dont give it to you you can walk.

    Unemployment is not all its cracked up to be and you still wont get a mortgage if you are uunemployed.

    Do you qualify for that subsidised cheap housing scheme? Best of luck anyway but the longer you stay in your job the more credits you get and its easier to find a job when you already have one!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Dudess wrote: »
    There aren't other jobs...
    Bull$hit. There are jobs out there, and with 4 years experience under the belt, teh OP should have a decent chance of getting a good one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    the_syco wrote: »
    Bull$hit. There are jobs out there, and with 4 years experience under the belt, teh OP should have a decent chance of getting a good one.


    I'm inclined to agree with the_syco on this one. Sure, there are less jobs going around and the days of quitting and walking straight into another job the next day may be over for most, but there certainly are jobs out there, especially in IT. You just need to be more resourceful to get them. Most importantly, try stay clear of the damned recruitment agencies!

    Network, network, network! (and not the Cisco type!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    the_syco wrote: »
    Bull$hit. There are jobs out there, and with 4 years experience under the belt, teh OP should have a decent chance of getting a good one.
    Nope, not bullsh1t. Bullsh1tting is lying. Seriously, wake up to reality. There are **** all jobs out there. Oh and on the extremely rare occasions that a job does come up, yes, the OP will be in with a really good chance because of course there won't be countless others going for it, including those with more experience/training/qualifications than the OP has.

    2007 called - it wants its career advice back...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Mena


    Dudess wrote: »
    Nope, not bullsh1t. Bullsh1tting is lying. Seriously, wake up to reality. There are **** all jobs out there.

    Sorry Dudess, but you're wrong. Especially in IT, there are still jobs to be had, and a fair few as well.

    Saying there are **** all jobs out there is just silly. The OP should explore his options as he's obviously being taken advantage of here. This crap about "sure you're lucky to even have a job" is a joke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    And look at all the other people who will be going for them. The number of jobs (and it's still very low) is significantly reduced when you consider the competition for them. Yes, the OP is lucky to have a job right now - even if employers are taking the piss (and many certainly are). I'm not saying the OP shouldn't look for a better job - of course he should. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't doing so anyway... but it will take time, that's all.
    Those other comments I quoted saying "get another job" aren't helpful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭nomorebadtown


    Overheal wrote: »
    Begin jobhunting on the side.

    lol. seriously.

    OP would you consider stating your own business of some kind or even just doing some freelance on the side? up skilling is also a good option.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    the_syco wrote: »
    Bull$hit. There are jobs out there, and with 4 years experience under the belt, teh OP should have a decent chance of getting a good one.

    I'd agree with this, I've a friend working in a company where four IT guys were let go recently and all four found work within two weeks. THe company I work in was looking for a level two MS support person recently and there weren't a huge amount of candidates as imo at the moment a lot of people are staying put, same happened with another three roles two months back.

    There is work out there in IT, and the OP has far too much experience to be earning what they are.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    The good thing is, in IT are still jobs - and even seemingly good ones - to be had. But you stated in some other context (hopefully jokingly ;) ) that you are not Dublin based. Unfortunately the vast majority of good IT jobs are Dublin based - but for a few exceptions in Cork, Galway, little bit of Limerick.
    I know what I'm talking about because I live in Waterford and while I'm not unhappy with my job right now the lack of competition on the labour market for my current employer is a bit concerning at times.
    So if you want a better IT job badly I'm afraid you might have to relocate.

    As for your original question, I think your employer/manager is probably taking advantage of the situation. Have you annual reviews, did you have recognitions of sorts? How did these things go?


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