Neighbour's dog off leash and bullying cat

HowAreYeGettinO

Hi all - I'll keep it as short as I can.

Neighbours of ours have a springer spaniel that they walk every day. On at least six occasions that we know of, the dog has torn down our driveway and done at least one lap of our house. (It's a detached house, we don't have side-gates, and their dog is not on a lead.) Three of those times the dog chased our cat, who is a very nervous house-cat, out of our garden.

This happened yet again last night. Our cat disappeared for hours and only came home after 11 by which time we were worried sick.

Sometimes the husband walks the dog, sometimes his wife. On one previous occasion, my wife had asked the husband (nicely) to keep the dog on a lead. He was nice about it and said he would. Problem finally solved, we thought.

Last night his wife was walking the dog. After the dog had chased our cat out of our property, my wife marched out front and asked the woman (nicely) to keep the dog on a lead. Instead of saying that she would, she said "Oh, you must be the cat lady. My husband told me all about you." :mad:

Needless to say when my wife told me this, I was raging, not only at the woman's carefree condescension but at the fact that this had happened yet again even though we had asked them to keep the dog on a lead.

I waited for the woman to come back into the estate from her walk, expecting her to pass our house again. She took a left turn when she came into our estate though, so I jumped in the car, drove past her (and her friend who she was walking the dog with), parked about 200m in front of them, waited until they walked past the car, got out and said 'excuse me, is that your dog?'

'Yes', said she. 'Can you keep it on a lead in the estate', I said, 'He ran down our driveway, chased our cat out of our garden and the cat still isn't home'.

'Oh, but I didn't see a cat when I went out for the walk' said she. (She couldn't have; the cat was in the back garden, which is not visible from the front of our house.)

I wasn't having this. I looked her straight in the eye and repeated, 'Your dog ran down our driveway and chased our cat out of our property. Just keep him on a lead in the estate, alright?' She turned on her heel and walked. I got back in the car and drove back to our house.

Question - was I out of order or within my rights?

(Thanks for reading if you made it this far!)

ISDW

I own dogs and cats, and I think you were well within your rights. The dog is not under effective control. She should not be allowing her dog to go into other people's property, whether they have cats or not, if her dog fouled in someone else's garden, would she go in and pick it up? I doubt it.

Best of luck, problems with neighbours can be so difficult.

Blueprint

I'd say you were perfectly right. It's the height of bad manners to let your dog go into other people's garden, let alone chase your cats.

My dog (despite the fact that he gets on great with my three cats) will chase cats if he sees them and he's off lead, so I just don't let him off anymore if there are likely to be cats as it's not fair on them.

Plus it's never a good idea to let your dog practice bad behaviour like ignoring you when you call him!

The Sweeper

Well within your rights. If she has no recall on the dog, it needs to be on a lead, end of story, cat or not.

I'd go baldheaded if someone's out of control dog came onto my property and went for my cats.

lightening

"the cat lady"

I'd say you felt like punching her in the side of the head. My neighbours cat comes in to my garden for a chase! She loves it.

HowAreYeGettinO

Thanks everyone. I was a bag of nerves today but that's settled me right down. (Until the next dog visit anyway!)

convert

As far as I am aware, legally a dog must be kept under control by the owner in a public area, and it is the owner's responsibility to ensure this. If it continues, have a chat to the local dog warden, guards, etc.

FYI: If a dog ran onto a farmer's land and chased/harmed his sheep, the farmer is entitled to shoot the dog. I wonder does that apply to a dog coming onto your property to chase your cat?!

sofia11

As far as I understand if your dog is on a public road/area it should be on a lead. A quick phone call to the local dog warden could clarify this or the local county council website. I know you don't want hassle with neighbours but if it was the other way round she might not delay in having the dog warden pay you a visit!! Perhaps it might be an idea to record the incidents with a dog warden so that at least you protect yourself first. Other people here might have better advice for you but remember people can turn the tables on you believe it or not. Have a record of events.

convert

sofia11 wrote: »

As far as I understand if your dog is on a public road/area it should be on a lead. A quick phone call to the local dog warden could clarify this or the local county council website. I know you don't want hassle with neighbours but if it was the other way round she might not delay in having the dog warden pay you a visit!! Perhaps it might be an idea to record the incidents with a dog warden so that at least you protect yourself first. Other people here might have better advice for you but remember people can turn the tables on you believe it or not. Have a record of events.

Yeah, it'd be a good idea to keep dates and times of these 'incidents' just incase there's hassle in the future...

LisaO

I think you are well within your rights OP & as both a dog & cat owner I fully understand your feelings. I would not allow my dogs into someone's garden when out walking them & similarly would be very annoyed to find someone else's dog straying into mine.

I would imagine the problem now is that the dog knows there is a cat in your garden & will be all the more eager to repeat the chase in future. Just an idea - if the dog is usually walked around the same time, could you keep an eye out & make a well-timed appearance from your back door & let out a roar at it? Springers are a docile enough dog usually & perhaps having the bejaysus frightened out of it for an instant would leave the required lasting impression?;)

GAAman

You were well within your rights in fact i think you were very restrained and calm about it, i have nearly taken an ex housemates head off because he scared my kitten :mad:

If i were you i would have a hurl or some other such object to hand and the next time the dog were to go on my property i would make it clear to the neighbours i would be protecting my cat by any means necessary (but also making sure to keep it clear they themselves are under no danger as they could claim you were threatening them, bearing in mind IANAL though)

You will probably find that pretty soon a leash will suddenly appear without you having to touch the dog

HowAreYeGettinO

Thanks again for the great response everyone.

The dog warden is a definite option if it happens again. And we're already keeping records of times, dates etc. It helps that there were a couple of workmen at the house last night when the dog came in - very sound lads and I wouldn't imagine they'd have any qualms acting as witnesses if need be.

Not sure about the hurl, GAAman! I (and my wife) both like dogs, but this one is just a lunatic who's scaring our pet to death. I don't blame the dog - the owner's the problem. Or hopefully, was the problem.

marles

I agree with all of the above.
1. Keep a record of the incidents.
2. Inform the dog warden.
As mentioned above keep an eye out for when the dog is walked and if he goes to come onto your property use a bucket of water or water gun as a deterrent.Spray him or throw the water on him then he won't be so keen to come back.It won't do him any harm but it will stop him from returning.

doctor evil

Nightmare OP. If they are neighbours I would be very wary of starting something.

I don't know the logistics of your home but would it be easier and less hassle to put in side gates? This could also make your home more secure against burglars.

GAAman

HowAreYeGettinO wrote: »

Not sure about the hurl, GAAman! I (and my wife) both like dogs, but this one is just a lunatic who's scaring our pet to death. I don't blame the dog - the owner's the problem. Or hopefully, was the problem.

Ah no wasnt suggesting braining the dog with the hurl

I was saying if the owner of the dog feels that you might just give it a crack if it does it again, they would be wise and more likely to use a leash

Outkast_IRE

the cat lady !!!!! ha ha sounds like somethin outta seinfeld
You did the right thing though if the dog isnt under control then its a problem

mymo

Some people are idiots, I was in Kilkenny yesterday with my 2 dogs. We were sitting outside a cafe having a cuppa when a large dog came running over, jumped over a chair and terrified the pup, she jumped all over the older pup, he thought it was playtime.
Dog had no collar or lead and was obviously in heat, she wouldn't leave us alone and the owner didn't give a damn, he was chatting and having a smoke with a friend up the road.:mad:
Two other dogs(on leads) walked passed and started going mad and almost had a row(she was all over them too), guy just looked and said she was a pain in the arse.
Garda walked over and told the guy to control dog, and she should be on a lead, guy shrugged and said what can i do? Garda walked off:eek:
I must add none of the other dogs(on leads) bothered us and both our dogs were sitting under our chairs minding their own business when this happened.
We had to leave in the end as she was tormenting the dogs.
I can't understand people at times, and the guarda's response baffled me.

We have cats too, had similar probs with neighbours dog jumping the nearly 5ft wall to chase ours, that dog last about a yaer before being killed on the road(also chased cars) and they blamed the driver.
I'd tell that woman that she's paying for any damage and the vet bills if the cat is injured.(i know injury is what you're trying to prevent) Sometimes money makes people more attentive.

HowAreYeGettinO

Sounds like a nightmare mymo. And I know in our case, the Guards just won't want to know so I'm hoping that it won't come to that.

Fair enough suggestion doctor evil re. the side gates - but it's only really practical to put one in on one side; the driveway runs the length of the house on the other side. As for burglars - the house is alarmed. And our (stubborn) attitude is that we shouldn't have to make any changes to suit a woman with no manners!

One thing (minor enough) in our favour is that we're friendly with the residents' committee, one of them has had to pull up this woman for the same reason, and we're keeping them informed of developments. May be useful in time to have them on our side.

Good sign last night though; the woman in question and her husband walked past our house - with the dog on a lead. We spotted them later in another part of the estate with the dog off the lead again, but at least they're keeping him on-lead around us for the moment. Fingers crossed :cool:

Enii

HowAreYeGettinO wrote: »

I waited for the woman to come back into the estate from her walk, expecting her to pass our house again. She took a left turn when she came into our estate though, so I jumped in the car, drove past her (and her friend who she was walking the dog with), parked about 200m in front of them, waited until they walked past the car, got out and said 'excuse me, is that your dog?'

'Yes', said she. 'Can you keep it on a lead in the estate', I said, 'He ran down our driveway, chased our cat out of our garden and the cat still isn't home'.

'Oh, but I didn't see a cat when I went out for the walk' said she. (She couldn't have; the cat was in the back garden, which is not visible from the front of our house.)

I wasn't having this. I looked her straight in the eye and repeated, 'Your dog ran down our driveway and chased our cat out of our property. Just keep him on a lead in the estate, alright?' She turned on her heel and walked. I got back in the car and drove back to our house.

Question - was I out of order or within my rights?

(Thanks for reading if you made it this far!)

Dogs are definitely suposed to be on a lead and you have a right to point this out.

HOWEVER, to get in to your car and to track down this lady to point this out to her is OTT and actually quite scary. As a dog owner (always keep him on the lead!) I would be very upset if you came up to me in the manner that you did. I would actually go straight down to the garda station to report the incident. I would consider that you may be dangerous as evidenced by your volatile behaviour. I would have felt threatened and would be very scared of you. Was this the impression you wanted to portray?

I don't think you have the right to scare and intimidate your neighbours - even if they are in the wrong!

metalgear2k2

Enii wrote: »

Dogs are definitely suposed to be on a lead and you have a right to point this out.

HOWEVER, to get in to your car and to track down this lady to point this out to her is OTT and actually quite scary. As a dog owner (always keep him on the lead!) I would be very upset if you came up to me in the manner that you did. I would actually go straight down to the garda station to report the incident. I would consider that you may be dangerous as evidenced by your volatile behaviour. I would have felt threatened and would be very scared of you. Was this the impression you wanted to portray?

I don't think you have the right to scare and intimidate your neighbours - even if they are in the wrong!

Are you serious? He asked her to keep the dog on a lead? He didn't say, "keep your dog on a lead or I'll batter you with the baseball bat I have in the car at all times"! IMO you would be laughed out of the garda station if you reported this. Its not like he speed up through the estate and sqreeched to a halt beside her and started shouting at her. IMO he handled the situation well as I'm sure he must have been pissed off having already asked the Husband to keep it on a lead, and then her answer about not seeing the cat would have made things worse, he was totally within his right to confront her on this matter.

the_syco

Meh. Water your plants with a hose. Try to ensure you don't spray the dog: most dogs don't like getting sprayed with water...

Enii

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Are you serious? He asked her to keep the dog on a lead? He didn't say, "keep your dog on a lead or I'll batter you with the baseball bat I have in the car at all times"! IMO you would be laughed out of the garda station if you reported this. Its not like he speed up through the estate and sqreeched to a halt beside her and started shouting at her. IMO he handled the situation well as I'm sure he must have been pissed off having already asked the Husband to keep it on a lead, and then her answer about not seeing the cat would have made things worse, he was totally within his right to confront her on this matter.

I would consider it to be harassment.

He was waiting for her to pass by his house. When he saw she was not walking down past his house he got in to his car to track her down so he could have it out with her. I don't think this is appropriate behaviour. I think it is intimidating, aggressive and very scary.

He does have the right to ask an owner to keep their dog on the lead. But he does not have the right to stalk her in her own neighbourhood to find her to ask her to keep her dog on the lead.

metalgear2k2

Enii wrote: »

I would consider it to be harassment.

He was waiting for her to pass by his house. When he saw she was not walking down past his house he got in to his car to track her down so he could have it out with her. I don't think this is appropriate behaviour. I think it is intimidating, aggressive and very scary.

He does have the right to ask an owner to keep their dog on the lead. But he does not have the right to stalk her in her own neighbourhood to find her to ask her to keep her dog on the lead.

I think we may have different views on what stalking is, IMO what the OP did certainly was not stalking!! He saw where she was in the estate, drove there and confronted her. What would you have prefered the OP to do exactly? Wait for it to happen again (the cat might not return) when he was in the house and then go out and confront her in front of his home? Call to her house and confront her on her door step?

How is it harassment??? He asked her to put her dog on a lead. People have gone too soft if that's harassment!

Enii

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

I think we may have different views on what stalking is, IMO what the OP did certainly was not stalking!! He saw where she was in the estate, drove there and confronted her. What would you have prefered the OP to do exactly? Wait for it to happen again (the cat might not return) when he was in the house and then go out and confront her in front of his home? Call to her house and confront her on her door step?

How is it harassment??? He asked her to put her dog on a lead. People have gone too soft if that's harassment!

I have always said it is right to ask someone to put the dog on the lead.

BUT to track them down to do so.........c'mon, that's scary......

HowAreYeGettinO

A few things I want to say;

- I was not out to stalk or harrass anyone. That's why I drove past the woman (and her friend) and parked 200m ahead of them, in case they thought I was up to something creepy. Of course I would have preferred to have the conversation in front of our house. That's why I waited there first for the woman to pass by. But she and her friend turned off on their way back into the esate, so I couldn't have it there.

- I didn't (and still don't) know what house the woman and her husband live in. I don't know their names either. I only know roughly what area of the estate they live in, that's why I parked over there. So calling over to their house wasn't, and still isn't, an option.

- For that reason, I had to move fast if I was to have a word with her, so I took the car. If I had followed on foot, I mightn't have caught up by the time she got into her house (and I don't know what house it is).

- If she found my behaviour aggressive, intimidating and scary, that was certainly not my intention. All I did was to ask her to keep her dog on a lead, because it had run down our driveway into our back garden, chased our cat away, and the cat had not come back. I didn't make a single threat - not even of calling the dog warden.

- My wife was upset. Our cat, at the time, was gone, and we didn't know if it was coming back. Our private property had yet again been used as a playpen for this dog. All because this woman would not keep it on a lead, even though my wife had already asked her husband nicely to do so, and had been assured that this wouldn't recur. How much of this were we supposed to put up with?

metalgear2k2

You were totally correct in your handling of the situation OP.

iguana

HowAreYeGettinO wrote: »

- I was not out to stalk or harrass anyone. That's why I drove past the woman (and her friend) and parked 200m ahead of them, in case they thought I was up to something creepy. Of course I would have preferred to have the conversation in front of our house. That's why I waited there first for the woman to pass by. But she and her friend turned off on their way back into the esate, so I couldn't have it there.

I agree with Enii, what you did could be construed as stalking or harassment. While I understand why you were upset and you were right to be as it's not acceptable for her to leave the dog offlead if she can't control him and he continually runs into your garden. But it was seriously not ok for you to follow her in your car and if someone did that to me I'd have a hard time convincing my husband not to call the police. Two wrongs doesn't make a right and what you did was not acceptable and possibly illegal.

Rew

Enii wrote: »

I have always said it is right to ask someone to put the dog on the lead.

BUT to track them down to do so.........c'mon, that's scary......

Not at all, no different to going knocking on a neighbors door.

We had a problem with a neighbor leaving a boxer out on its own running around the street. He thought it was fine because the dog was harmless and said it "didn't listen to him" so there was nothing he could do! Very aggressive guy but faced with 3 very angry neighbors about his dog howling its way up and down the street he sorted it out pretty quickly.

Rew

iguana wrote: »

I agree with Enii, what you did could be construed as stalking or harassment. While I understand why you were upset and you were right to be as it's not acceptable for her to leave the dog offlead if she can't control him and he continually runs into your garden. But it was seriously not ok for you to follow her in your car and if someone did that to me I'd have a hard time convincing my husband not to call the police. Two wrongs doesn't make a right and what you did was not acceptable and possibly illegal.

Gardai wouldn't entertain that for a second. They didn't follow them in the car they used the car to get ahead of them.

iguana

HowAreYeGettinO wrote: »

- My wife was upset. Our cat, at the time, was gone, and we didn't know if it was coming back. Our private property had yet again been used as a playpen for this dog. All because this woman would not keep it on a lead, even though my wife had already asked her husband nicely to do so, and had been assured that this wouldn't recur. How much of this were we supposed to put up with?

As an aside do you allow your cat to roam freely, because it sounds as if you do as your cat was free in your unsecured garden? If so it probably goes into other people's properties and they may not like that either? Cats are big killers of birds and kill both wild birds and pets. I know a couple of people who's pet birds were killed by other people's pet cats, including the destruction of a hen house. And while it wasn't my pet I was really upset a few weeks ago when I found the head of the robin who had been nesting in my garden on my lawn after my neighbours' cat had killed it.

Your neighbour should absolutely not have her dog offlead where she can't control him. But if you allow your cat to roam, in the knowledge that he will be going on other people's property and is a potential danger to the pets of others then you are doing the exact same thing.

iguana

Rew wrote: »

Gardai wouldn't entertain that for a second. They didn't follow them in the car they used the car to get ahead of them.

If someone makes a harassment claim they have a duty to deal with it. Would they prosecute? No. But they would have to look into it and talk to the OP. Following someone in the car, then sitting in the car and waiting for her to approach before getting out is creepy. The dog owner had avoided the house that her dog runs into so it was not going to be a problem for the OP again that evening. As a dog owner I don't think the OP's neighbour is behaving correctly but she was very possibly not walking past the OP's house in order to stop her dog from going on his property. But the OP drove after her, even when she didn't come near his house. That's really not ok and she could have been left feeling scared or intimidated.

HowAreYeGettinO

As an aside do you allow your cat to roam freely, because it sounds as if you do as your cat was free in your unsecured garden?

No. Even if we did want her to roam, she wouldn't, she's a house-cat and a nervous one at that (afraid of people, pets, you name it). She'll go out the back garden for 5/10 minutes twice a day, and we watch her when she's out. She has yet to arrive back with a bird or a mouse, and is so fat that she's very unlikely to catch either.

If so it probably goes into other people's properties and they may not like that either?

I take your point, but we've had no complaints about her whatsoever and haven't seen her up to anything dodgy. The back of our garden and one of the two sides have a wall and fence respectively that are too high for her to jump. She can go over the other side into our immediate neighbours' garden, but that house is a holiday home that in only used for a few days a couple of times a year. And when they're there she's scared of them, doesn't go into their garden etc.

As cats go she's pretty harmless tbh.

Rew

iguana wrote: »

If someone makes a harassment claim they have a duty to deal with it. Would they prosecute? No. But they would have to look into it and talk to the OP. Following someone in the car, then sitting in the car and waiting for her to approach before getting out is creepy. The dog owner had avoided the house that her dog runs into so it was not going to be a problem for the OP again that evening. As a dog owner I don't think the OP's neighbour is behaving correctly but she was very possibly not walking past the OP's house in order to stop her dog from going on his property. But the OP drove after her, even when she didn't come near his house. That's really not ok and she could have been left feeling scared or intimidated.

If you made that complaint and told them what happened you would be told to let them know if it happened again and gently ushered out the door and told to make sure it doesn't bump you on the way out. The dog owner wasn't followed by the car the car drove past them stopped and somone got out. Happens all day every day.

amdublin

HowAreYeGettinO wrote: »

(It's a detached house, we don't have side-gates, and their dog is not on a lead.)

Why not get a side gate?

If it is not this dog, it will be another dog. Or a stray etc.

Probably best all round to get a side gate for your poor little moggy.

amdublin

amdublin wrote: »

Why not get a side gate?

If it is not this dog, it will be another dog. Or a stray etc.

Probably best all round to get a side gate for your poor little moggy.

Ps. I am a cat lady too, I'd hate if dogs were able to get into my back garden. That is why I have a side gate.

amdublin

Also, this would stop arguments between you and your neighbour and you would not have to harrass your neighbour to keep the dog on a lead.

Quentinkrisp

HowareyegettingO, i'd call the council's dog warden if i were you, dog owners who give their dogs free roam around an estate are ignorant and irresponsible idiots IMOyeah i had my own experience with what the OP said, except it nvolved two well-trained sheepdogs chasing after me barking like feckin cerberus:eek:ripping my jeans and biting me in the leg - the whole thing took place on a public green space (found in EVERY estate in dublin!)i got off my bike and started going door to door making enquiries as to who owned those dogs - got the owners address, went to his door, told him what happened and got nothing but complete denial - the f**ker opened with a simple "SO?WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?"well obviously keep your dogs in the back garden, idiot i then just gave up and walked of, i'm ashamed to say, i was just so taken aback at the owner's rottenness and ignorance - rang the dog warden and i hope some action has been taken;anyhoo to wrap this up your husband was absolutely right, confronted the b*itch head on and laid down the law to her force is the only language these idiots understand:mad:

Enii

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

HowareyegettingO, i'd call the council's dog warden if i were you, dog owners who give their dogs free roam around an estate are ignorant and irresponsible idiots rottenness and ignorance :

Yes, probably better to call the dog warden rather then track your neighbours down on the streets and confront them in a very OTT manner. Probably would be less scary for the dog owner.

Enii

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

to wrap this up your husband was absolutely right, confronted the b*itch head on and laid down the law to her force is the only language these idiots understand:mad:

Nice........