is it time to consider o garas ireland future?

Dilhara

With so much great young talent emerging in the fly half position is it time for o gara to step aside (not permanently) to give the likes of sexton(who with his current leinsterand church hill cup performances has out played a couple of lions) and keatley a chance to prove themselves on an international stage.

d'Oracle

I think Sexton will play on the bench next season.
He is young and has loads of time to get in there.

Hopefully ROG will benefit from the competition.

I certainly don't think its time to put ROG out to stud yet.
Plenty of ball left in him, still no1 in my eyes.

Size=everything

I certainly do anyway. It would be great to see the likes of Johno Sexton getting a shot at outhalf in the internationals as aside from being young talent for the future he is also the most in form outhalf in the country! Ronan O'Gara has done a lot for Ireland but for the past 3 seasons he just hasn't been doing himself justice. Defensively he is still a massive liability, he has never looked good running with ball in hand and now the one thing he prized himself on - his out of hand kicking - has gone wayward. You can saunter on about the drop goal against Wales (which any outhalf would of gotten GET OVER IT) all you want but the fact is he has been very poor these past few seasons and it seems more of a case in the last season of Ireland winning in spite of him rather than because of him (England game in 6N anyone?)

The problem is people dont want to let go of ROG because he was once such an integral part of the team but right now we really need to give the better, in form players such as Sexton a chance.

bugler

You can't outplay Lions while playing Churchill Cup or HC. Sexton has had a good season , but it's not that long ago he looked very ordinary. If he continues fine form for Leinster then he'll be in the 22 for Ireland, and will get his shot. But let's wait for consistency first.

I recall after Leicester beat Munster in TP in the 2006/2007 season certain people were calling for Iain Humphreys to be given a shot for Ireland.

tughfc

o gara seems to me as man whos low on confidance and has passed the now new game as we know it! its time for the likes of jonny sexton and keatley to make a name for themselves on the international stage and they cant do this unless o gara is shipped out of the ireland squad!! were looking towards the future not the past!!

Size=everything

bugler wrote: »

You can't outplay Lions while playing Churchill Cup or HC. Sexton has had a good season , but it's not that long ago he looked very ordinary. If he continues fine form for Leinster then he'll be in the 22 for Ireland, and will get his shot. But let's wait for consistency first.

I recall after Leicester beat Munster in TP in the 2006/2007 season certain people were calling for Iain Humphreys to be given a shot for Ireland.

You can when your playing opposite them....

Besides the latter stages of the Heineken Cup is as close as you can get to international test level and not only did Sexton not struggle at that level he excelled where ROG absolutely fell to pieces (semi final)

siltirocker

bugler wrote: »

You can't outplay Lions while playing Churchill Cup or HC. Sexton has had a good season , but it's not that long ago he looked very ordinary. If he continues fine form for Leinster then he'll be in the 22 for Ireland, and will get his shot. But let's wait for consistency first.

I recall after Leicester beat Munster in TP in the 2006/2007 season certain people were calling for Iain Humphreys to be given a shot for Ireland.

Here, here!

CatFromHue

ROG is now in a bit of a strange situation.

Because he is on the lions tour i presume that he'll get an extended holiday and so wont come back to rugby til a few games into the season.

Sexton i presume wont get an extended holiday and so will be back earlier and play from the first game on.

I may be wrong but on my presumptions though

I would be of the opinion that sexton had a very good end to the season but still has to show that he can play as good for a longer period, and not just May/June.

If ROD has a slow start to the season and Sexton starts well it'll be interesting to see what happens.

As for who'll play in the autumn internationals its too early to call really, ROG could start next season great and sexton could be poor.

All being well though for I would like an understudy to ROG getting some game time in the weaker of the autumn internationals

ozt9vdujny3srf

Enough of this! This has been absolutely discussed to death, and there is no need for yet another thread about it.

There is no doubt that the Irish 10 Jersey is up for grabs next year. It all depends on how the players show up after the off season. Both guys, when on form, have shown they can pull the strings in a game, lets just be thankful we are now able to pick the outhalf that has better form, instead of being stuck with just one man who will inevitably have dips in form. At the end of the day, I completely trust Kidney to pick the best man for the job.

Let's not forget this time last year were people on this board calling for Brian O'Driscoll to get dropped. It just goes to show even the best player that I have ever seen wear an Irish shirt is capable of having a bad run.

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

You can when your playing opposite them....

Besides the latter stages of the Heineken Cup is as close as you can get to international test level and not only did Sexton not struggle at that level he excelled where ROG absolutely fell to pieces (semi final)

Fell to pieces? Nice hyperbole.

Size=everything

The problem was O'Driscoll never had a bad run he just didn't excell like we'd seen in the past. He was still Ireland's best player at the time. O'Gara however is playing poorly.

Size=everything

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Fell to pieces? Nice hyperbole.

Are you serious? Steam rolled by Contepomi, missed tackles, knocked the ball on under no pressure in his 22, couldn't find touch and threw an intercept pass leading to a try.

I think you can safely say he fell to pieces

premierstone

Have we not discussed this sh*te a million fcukin times what is peoples obsession with ROG seriously he must be the most analysed player in the history of Irish rugby.

Please for all our sanity will a MOD lock :mad:

Dilhara

bugler wrote: »

You can't outplay Lions while playing Churchill Cup or HC. Sexton has had a good season , but it's not that long ago he looked very ordinary. If he continues fine form for Leinster then he'll be in the 22 for Ireland, and will get his shot. But let's wait for consistency first.

I recall after Leicester beat Munster in TP in the 2006/2007 season certain people were calling for Iain Humphreys to be given a shot for Ireland.

yes you can i think playing against england saxon, munster and leicester is at a higher level than playing against the golden lions and the royal 15 in which o gara started.

plusn after the hc semi finally it looks like sexton myt have a greater mental strenght

Size=everything

premierstone wrote: »

Have we not discussed this sh*te a million fcukin times what is peoples obsession with ROG seriously he must be the most analysed player in the history of Irish rugby.

Please for all our sanity will a MOD lock :mad:

Some people want to discuss ROG why should we not be allowed because some posters think he is above criticism? its a discussion forum after all. Where did the last thread go anyway?

murphym7

Bored of this already.

bugler

Size=everything wrote: »

You can when your playing opposite them....

Besides the latter stages of the Heineken Cup is as close as you can get to international test level and not only did Sexton not struggle at that level he excelled where ROG absolutely fell to pieces (semi final)

I assume you wanted Iain Humpreys in the Irish side too. He excelled in TP, ROG must have "absolutely fell to pieces".

subfreq

Declan's decision is very very simple. What is best for the team?

Flyhalf is no different from the situation with both props. Great servants to the country in each position with fantastic young talent available to slot in for two of them.

The opportunity must be made for a younger guy to get experience but not if Declan feels it will destabilse the rest of the team. Cian Healy has the best shout of starting one of the major AI games and probably against Australia as they still don't have the same strength in the front row as the AB's or the Boks.

Because of the way Declan has Ireland set up ROG is far more important and is also the main leader of the back line. He plays as a quarter back and I can't see Declan compromising the pattern of Ireland's play by starting Sexton in a major International yet.(I am not even sure Sexton deserves one yet)

Fiji is a different matter and I think he will have to cut his teeth here first but you can also expect Earls, Murphy and possibly Trimble if he starts well in the new season to also get a chance in this game.

Changes will be introduced gradually to the Irish team so that it goes from strength to strength. As obvious as some of ROG's limitations are becoming if you took him out for the big tests this Autumn I think Ireland would struggle. It wouldn't really do Sexton any favours either.

I would like to see Healy and Toner introduced first and Sexton get some bench time.

Hyperbullet

Size=everything wrote: »

Are you serious? Steam rolled by Contepomi, missed tackles, knocked the ball on under no pressure in his 22, couldn't find touch and threw an intercept pass leading to a try.

I think you can safely say he fell to pieces

Oh please. I'm a Munster fan and i've no problem saying we were outplayed that day, all over the field, you cant say it was O Gara's fault.

Its high time for people to pull their head out of Sexton's hole. Yes he had 2 decent games for Leinster, and a good Churchill cup (against poor opposition) but he is nowhere near good enough to play at an international level yet. You'd swear he is the second incarnation of jesus going by some people's opinions on here. Competition is healthy, and he'll earn that number 10 jersey some day, but to say O Gara is finished is a joke.

Size=everything

bugler wrote: »

I assume you wanted Iain Humpreys in the Irish side too. He excelled in TP, ROG must have "absolutely fell to pieces".

I wasn't aware Humphries did it all season like Sexton did 2 seasons ago and then came into last season and played amazing in the semi final and final of the Heinken Cup against the current title holders and current record holders

Musn't of been paying close enough attention

Size=everything

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Oh please. I'm a Munster fan and i've no problem saying we were outplayed that day, all over the field, you cant say it was O Gara's fault.

Its high time for people to pull their head out of Sexton's hole. Yes he had 2 decent games for Leinster, and a good Churchill cup (against poor opposition) but he is nowhere near good enough to play at an international level yet. You'd swear he is the second incarnation of jesus going by some people's opinions on here. Competition is healthy, and he'll earn that number 10 jersey some day, but to say O Gara is finished is a joke.

2 good games and a CC? Have people's minds simply been erased? Sexton was excellent in 2006 season as well and once again outplayed ROG in the two games!

anonymous_joe

What's there to consider?

He's the best out-half in Ireland, although overrated by some, which is fairly unarguable. (The being the best bit.)

Sexton's catching up fast and is younger and physically more powerful. He's an obvious candidate to replace O'Gara, and needs some international game time, but O'Gara's not done yet. Soon, but not yet.

corny

Rog shouldn't be abandoned but i think the days of him playing 80 mins every game are over. Sextons chance will come soon and we'll take it from there.

thomond2006

Maybe we should have a ROG dissing sub forum, where some of ye can engage in constructive armchair critique. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just leave it out, will ye?

buck65

Questioning O Gara's mental strength is akin to questioning POC's physical strength.

Size=everything

thomond2006 wrote: »

Maybe we should have a ROG dissing sub forum, where some of ye can engage in constructive armchair critique. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just leave it out, will ye?

So were not allowed discuss a player? Why is that? No one has slagged O'Gara simply criticised whats the problem?

Hyperbullet

Size=everything wrote: »

2 good games and a CC? Have people's minds simply been erased? Sexton was excellent in 2006 season as well and once again outplayed ROG in the two games!

you mean the 06/07 season? Where he played one game against Munster?

Get your facts right mate.

jacool

as a Connacht man I don't have to get bogged down in the tribal nonsense going on here.
ROG isn't finished yet, and it would be foolish to discard him.
Other players can be blooded over Autumn, and will have the chance to prove themselves before 2010. If they don't work out then ROG would be the natural choice. The Irish game plan this season seemed well suited to his abilities as well and I can't see Kidney changing for some new expansive "throw the ball around the park" style just for the hell of it.
I'm not looking beyond 6N for now, but perhaps some of you are.

Stev_o

The way i see it is a gradual change over from ROG to whoever puts their hand up which looks like Sexton at the moment. Chances are ROG will not be on the pitch for the full 80 in the coming internationals and will be brought off after x amount of minutes letting Sexton (I presume) adjust to International rugby.

Then it all depends really how Sexton handles that dip into international rugby, if he preforms well we could see him start a few matches in the 6N with ROG on the bench to provide some sort of guidance if needs be.

But people got to remember ROG's 32/33 he is coming to a end soon enough and we can't be whipping a old horse for very much longer. The indication at Munster with Warwick now getting regular game time at 15 suggests that he ll start filling those shoes pretty soon. Ireland have to be thinking the same.

bigbadben

Size=everything wrote: »

So were not allowed discuss a player? Why is that? No one has slagged O'Gara simply criticised whats the problem?

I think you're an utter fool and if I met you on the street I'd punch you in the face.

That should do it.

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

Are you serious? Steam rolled by Contepomi, missed tackles, knocked the ball on under no pressure in his 22, couldn't find touch and threw an intercept pass leading to a try.

I think you can safely say he fell to pieces

Getting steamrolled by a centre is hardly falling to pieces. It's not he was a terrific tackle either up until that game and he suddenly fell to pieces because he got steam rolled. ROG "fell to pieces" no more then the rest of the 15 players, I don't think he was the worst either.

As for sexton, up until the last 3 months he's been very up and down, one minute he'll look great then the next he miss kicks that are easy. Give me a start against Fiji but I'd be wary of a start against SA or Aus, he's never even played close to that standard of rugby before. As for Keatley getting ahead of ROG? That just hilarious.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

2 good games and a CC? Have people's minds simply been erased? Sexton was excellent in 2006 season as well and once again outplayed ROG in the two games!

Sexton is a good player but you have to remember that he was on the bench for the HC semi and if it wasn't for Dr Phil getting injured he may not have come on or even played in the final

If he was so obviously the best fly-half then why was that the case?

subfreq

It would be an interesting tactic to plan to use ROG for the first 65 say and then switch to Sexton. If you have other mobile subs it would allow to run at tired defenses.

thomond2006

Size=everything wrote: »

So were not allowed discuss a player? Why is that? No one has slagged O'Gara simply criticised whats the problem?

Of course you're allowed to discuss a player.

However, it seems many posters have vested interests in belittling ROG and we have a thread doing this every time he has a poor/average performance.

Hyperbullet

thomond2006 wrote: »

Of course you're allowed to discuss a player.

However, it seems many posters have vested interests in belittling ROG and we have a thread doing this every time he has a poor/average performance.

Finally some sense

Size=everything

Riskymove wrote: »

Sexton is a good player but you have to remember that he was on the bench for the HC semi and if it wasn't for Dr Phil getting injured he may not have come on or even played in the final

If he was so obviously the best fly-half then why was that the case?

Selection woes not Sexton's fault. It was clear to everyone except Cheika that when Sexton was at 10 the backline clicked. Everything started clicking against Munster and again in the final with Sexton at 10. Just took an injury for Cheika to realize that. I also think Cheika wanted to keep D'arcy, BOD and Contepomi on the pitch at all costs

d'Oracle

subfreq wrote: »

Declan's decision is very very simple. What is best for the team?


Because of the way Declan has Ireland set up ROG is far more important and is also the main leader of the back line. He plays as a quarter back and I can't see Declan compromising the pattern of Ireland's play by starting Sexton in a major International yet.(I am not even sure Sexton deserves one yet)

I disagree on the grounds that Kidney has said that he is a firm believer in earning the jersey. If Sexton is playing and training better he will get his nod. I also don't believe that Sexton isn't capable of taking charge or that not playing Ronan will compromise anything. Any coach who sets out a team based around one player is bound for doom and Kidney is too smart for that.

That said if Sexton plays & trains well, it should light a fire under ROG, if it doesn't then it will be time for him to step aside.

Hyperbullet

Size=everything wrote: »

Selection woes not Sexton's fault. It was clear to everyone except Cheika that when Sexton was at 10 the backline clicked. Everything started clicking against Munster and again in the final with Sexton at 10. Just took an injury for Cheika to realize that. I also think Cheika wanted to keep D'arcy, BOD and Contepomi on the pitch at all costs

Are you actually suggesting Sexton was better than Contepomi last season?

Size=everything

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Are you actually suggesting Sexton was better than Contepomi last season?

At outhalf, yes.

_blank_

bigbadben permanently banned

Size=everything

d'Oracle wrote: »

That said if Sexton plays & trains well, it should light a fire under ROG, if it doesn't then it will be time for him to step aside.

If competition for the Lions test jersey didn't motivate ROG then I doubt anything else will.

thehighground

Ruggie

Any chance of some sort of a filter that can be put on that you need to have at last 500+ posts to your username before being allowed to start a thread or mention the name O'Gara, ROG ets or something in the rugby section.

And a permanent ban of mentioning their name with some (you know who you are).

Lets hope O'Gara gets back to better days like this:

Wales v. Ireland 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wZjz3n0rSU

Oafley Jones

This thread is a perfect example as to why I rarely post on the rugby forum - outside of the rarely controversial issue of jerseys that is. It seems to attract the worst elements who's arguments wouldn't be tolerated on their own respective fan sites, be it Munsterfans/leinsterfans.

d'Oracle

Size=everything wrote: »

At outhalf, yes.

Im curious, would you still say that putting the Munster matches and the end of the season aside?

Dilhara

Size=everything wrote: »

Selection woes not Sexton's fault. It was clear to everyone except Cheika that when Sexton was at 10 the backline clicked. Everything started clicking against Munster and again in the final with Sexton at 10. Just took an injury for Cheika to realize that. I also think Cheika wanted to keep D'arcy, BOD and Contepomi on the pitch at all costs

couldnt agree more with you i mean it just clicks with sexton in the team....but how could blame him for starting darcy bod and contepomi...now with contipomi gone sexton can really shine

d'Oracle

Size=everything wrote: »

If competition for the Lions test jersey didn't motivate ROG then I doubt anything else will.

Eh, maybe.

We will have to see.
The land he got in the second test might give him the motivation he needs to get his head in order.

Hyperbullet

thehighground wrote: »

Ruggie

Any chance of some sort of a filter that can be put on that you need to have at last 500+ posts to your username before being allowed to start a thread or mention the name O'Gara, ROG ets or something in the rugby section.

And a permanent ban of mentioning their name with some (you know who you are).

Lets hope O'Gara gets back to better days like this:

Wales v. Ireland 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wZjz3n0rSU

Just because people dont have as many posts as you doesnt make their opinion any less valid. Provided they're not threatening to punch anyone!!

premierstone

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Are you actually suggesting Sexton was better than Contepomi last season?

You will find Hyper that size=everything doesnt allow trivial things like the truth and facts get in the way of posting anti ROG and pro Sexton drivel, just leave him at it he usually gets bored after a while and fecks off especially if you actually try and engage in a meaningfull intellectual conversation about Rugby.

_blank_

Right.

Get off the Leinster vs Munster thing please.

Last I checked Contepomi has zero to do with O'Gara or Ireland.

Thanks

Stev_o

So anyone having any other ideas of how ROG should be managed here on in? Has alot to offer to the various OH's in the country who could use his knowledge of the game. Maybe play Sexton at IC against Italy? Anyone have anything to say?

Size=everything

I really don't have anything personal against O'Gara I just feel people are letting his past performances (i.e from 3 seasons or more ago) be an argument towards keeping him at 10 for Ireland and don't feel that is a valid reason. You play those in form currently and right now that isn't O'Gara. Before the reason we never dropped ROG was because we had no one else. Now we do.