Heart Rate Help

Ms K Sir A

Hi all...

Armed with my new Polar R6 HRM Watch... My 1st test run saw the thing bleep at me all the way around my (approx) 3k route.

The results for this run were as follows:

HR Max 106% / 189 BPM
HR Avg 98% / 175 BPM
16 Min 20 Duration.

I definately slowed down because I figured the watch wasn't meant to be bleeping non stop. I even walked sections to try get it to stop... so my averages as above would be far lower than would be my normal pre gadget run suggesting to me that my normal run HR AVG is well in excess of 100%. At that I am already slow when I run. I have never bothered with timing myself before, figuring I just want to enjoy the thing and not take it too seriously. (Says she with new watch). I don't need to be fast. YET!!! (The watch purchase may be the first sign of the competitive streak in me edging to the surface though).

I started training last Feb. Aged 41 F.

A recent duathlon saw me put in the following times...
2k Run 1
00:09:0715k Cycle

00:37:152k Run 2

00:10:27

I am a beginner and delighted I am finishing the odd tri and duathlon... so I don't mind that I am slow.

I've heard you need to be able to hold a conversation while running, I can... at a struggle.... I need to stop between sentences to give my breath a chance to catch up... but hey... I can string a full sentence now which is more than can be said for how I was when I started out.

I've read so many different posts with nothing short of scientific jargon to my uneducated ears about training zones etc.... Any chance someone would care to recommend in plain English what I should aim to do? I train about 5 times per week... from 15 - 20 min runs to a 30ish k cycle. Nothing major. I don't want to put myself off training altogether by going at it hell for leather, but I am happy to do 5 sessions a week and to extend the sessions if need be. My lungs let me down big time with the swimming too, so I am aware I need to get this thing sorted.

Anyway... among its many features this watch has

Hard 80 - 90% high intensity workout zone
Moderate 70 - 80
and light 60 - 70 zones

What would you great coaches recommend I do using this watch (or not) to get my heart and lungs working with me rather than against me in training??? My Mon & Fri night runs will prob continue to be the off the watch scale mad 15 minute heart dash as I run with a few other beginners those nights.

Sorry for offending those proper runners out there by referring to my efforts as running!!!! I don't believe they even qualify as jogging. Feels like sprints though!!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance.

Woddle

Ms K Sir A wrote: »

Hi all...

Armed with my new Polar R6 HRM Watch... My 1st test run saw the thing bleep at me all the way around my (approx) 3k route.

The results for this run were as follows:

HR Max 106% / 189 BPM
HR Avg 98% / 175 BPM
16 Min 20 Duration.

.

If I'm reading this right its telling me you don't know your exact maximum heart rate, as your maximum will represent 100% so you will never have a reading of 106%.

So the first thing you should do is work your MHR out, there are a number of ways to do this from running up hills to your sprint finish in a race. My max is now 205 beats per minute and I got this by doing 8x400m with a minute recovery, I followed this with 3x200m with 2 min recovery and then I went banannas for 2x100m.
Also what is your goal and then we might be able to help you with zones.

Racing Flat

See here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055456854&highlight=heart+rate+zones

ss43

Ms K Sir A wrote: »

The results for this run were as follows:

HR Max 106% / 189 BPM
HR Avg 98% / 175 BPM
16 Min 20 Duration.

HR max can't be over 100%. THe watch is probably using the 220-your age formula to work out your max but that's only a guideline and is in your case clearly not right. It's probably way off unless you were racing it. You need to set it manually. Finding out your max HR would involve running at a very fast pace for a reasonably long amount of time. The suggestion by Woddle would probably be a good enough way of getting it.

I am a beginner and delighted I am finishing the odd tri and duathlon... so I don't mind that I am slow.

I've heard you need to be able to hold a conversation while running, I can... at a struggle.... I need to stop between sentences to give my breath a chance to catch up... but hey... I can string a full sentence now which is more than can be said for how I was when I started out.

It's a good rule of thumb so you're not working at too high an intensity (you should get your fitness up first before really pushing it in training).

I've read so many different posts with nothing short of scientific jargon to my uneducated ears about training zones etc.... Any chance someone would care to recommend in plain English what I should aim to do? I train about 5 times per week... from 15 - 20 min runs to a 30ish k cycle. Nothing major. I don't want to put myself off training altogether by going at it hell for leather, but I am happy to do 5 sessions a week and to extend the sessions if need be. My lungs let me down big time with the swimming too, so I am aware I need to get this thing sorted.

Anyway... among its many features this watch has

Hard 80 - 90% high intensity workout zone
Moderate 70 - 80
and light 60 - 70 zones

What would you great coaches recommend I do using this watch (or not) to get my heart and lungs working with me rather than against me in training??? My Mon & Fri night runs will prob continue to be the off the watch scale mad 15 minute heart dash as I run with a few other beginners those nights.

As you get used to the runs, increase the length of them until they're all upwards of 30 with one up around 45. This could take you very little time or it could take you a long time, don't worry about it, just increase them when you can.

As regards the zones, stay out of the high intensity one until you've built up some more fitness. (If you go slightly into it towards teh end of a run don't worry but most of your training should be below this zone. The rest of your trainnig should be a mix between the moderate and light ones. However, they mean nothing without an accurate max as they're all percentages of max HR. You could use the watch for comparative purposes so you'd see your HR dropping for a certain pace or the pace increasing while HR stays the same over time but if you don't find your max HR I'd advise turning off the sound so it doesn't drive you mad.

Ms K Sir A

Woddle wrote: »

If I'm reading this right its telling me you don't know your exact maximum heart rate, as your maximum will represent 100% so you will never have a reading of 106%.

So the first thing you should do is work your MHR out, there are a number of ways to do this from running up hills to your sprint finish in a race. My max is now 205 beats per minute and I got this by doing 8x400m with a minute recovery, I followed this with 3x200m with 2 min recovery and then I went banannas for 2x100m.
Also what is your goal and then we might be able to help you with zones.

The gadget works out my max heart rate no? based on 220 less my age giving me 179ish BPM. There fore when I was doing 189 I think it was? I was 106% HR.

Woddle

Ms K Sir A wrote: »

The gadget works out my max heart rate no? based on 220 less my age giving me 179ish BPM. There fore when I was doing 189 I think it was? I was 106% HR.

No I was guilty of this when I started running, if I was to do it that way now my max would be 190 and not 205 and if I was then to follow the zones based on a max of 190 I would never be working hard enough.

lecheile

Ms K Sir A wrote: »

The gadget works out my max heart rate no? based on 220 less my age giving me 179ish BPM. There fore when I was doing 189 I think it was? I was 106% HR.

What the guys were saying Ms K Sir A is that your heart cant beat any faster than its maximum heart rate. Starting off with 220 less your age is a very crude starting point. In your case you have recorded a rate of 189 which indicates that your max is at least 189. You should at least increase the MHR to this level until you work our a more accurate MHR for you.

Ms K Sir A

ss43 wrote: »

HR max can't be over 100%. THe watch is probably using the 220-your age formula to work out your max but that's only a guideline and is in your case clearly not right. It's probably way off unless you were racing it. You need to set it manually. Finding out your max HR would involve running at a very fast pace for a reasonably long amount of time. The suggestion by Woddle would probably be a good enough way of getting it.



It's a good rule of thumb so you're not working at too high an intensity (you should get your fitness up first before really pushing it in training).


As you get used to the runs, increase the length of them until they're all upwards of 30 with one up around 45. This could take you very little time or it could take you a long time, don't worry about it, just increase them when you can.

As regards the zones, stay out of the high intensity one until you've built up some more fitness. (If you go slightly into it towards teh end of a run don't worry but most of your training should be below this zone. The rest of your trainnig should be a mix between the moderate and light ones. However, they mean nothing without an accurate max as they're all percentages of max HR. You could use the watch for comparative purposes so you'd see your HR dropping for a certain pace or the pace increasing while HR stays the same over time but if you don't find your max HR I'd advise turning off the sound so it doesn't drive you mad.

When you say fitness.....? My muscles are well able to carry me, aside from slight achilles niggles in the mornings. I don't ever feel my muscles getting weak or light, apart from when I am unusually tired. Running up slight inclines aren't a problem for them either. It's my lungs that are letting me down, and so presumably my heart fitness. I'm presuming I'm referring to aerobic fitness here.

So you guys are reckoning the watch is calculating my max heart rate best on a safety recommendation given my age etc, while you guys would consider my max heart rate to be the highest I've managed to push it up to essentially?

Ms K Sir A

Sorry my replies are crossing your replies!!! Rereading.

Ms K Sir A

Thanks Racing Flat for link to previous post. I have to say this is a great example of going over my head stuff. I am an absolute beginner. I haven't thought about lactate or anarobic etc before. What I'm saying is... most of this type of terminology is new to me. And yeah i should prob put some time into trying to understand it.... but the fact it is all going over my head was the reason for my post. ye know? I see from the disagreements and differing opinions between those of you who appear to know what you're talking about on these posts that this isn't easily understood even by you guys. I do appreciate the response though believe it or not!!!! Anyway... I did find one description in that post which describes me to a 'T'......

"An LT run will typically be fairly hard or what people might call 'comfortably hard'. You know you could speed up a bit if you had to (but you wouldn't want to), you're dying for it to be over, and you're delighted when it is. From that regard it's a bit like a race, but not as hard, but a major difference being that you'll recover much more quickly after a LT run than a race."

This is exactly how all my running efforts feel. I am running around the course thinking... wish this was over... but when I get to the end I can still pull a sprint out of me for the last 50 meters or so.

Clearly they shouldn't ALL feel like this? or should they?

Question in short is... if I get an average heart rate for my regular short run (without the thing bleeping out obscenities at me this time), ie the run that feels like the above description.

Should I be aiming to do that type of run once a week? twice a week? go easier than it? go faster? How should I split up say 4 runs a week relative to that run and or HR.?

As for my aims in this...

- to learn to actually enjoy a run the same way I enjoy a good tough hike.
- to get my heart and lungs to calm down a bit and let my legs carry me on a bit faster.
- & I suppose by next year to look at doing an olympic triathlon or two as well as the few sprints. So... to increase distances, but no big panic on that.


I will happily get out there and go hell for leather to get that max heart rate if your suggestions require it to help me achieve the above three goals. Might go for it anyway out of curiosity now.

When I came home this morning with the watch bleeping, I was thinking two things....
1. this is incredibly demotivational... (wanted to walk to stop the bleeping) and
2. Maybe I am doing myself harm by running this fast for my age and training experience etc.

So you've all put my mind to rest on that one. Thanks. :-)

Ms K Sir A

Rightio... sorry about this...

I'm inputting the manual settings... I took above advice and put max in at 189 for now.... It's easily changed, and I can kill the volumn as also suggested if need be in the mean time.

How should I decide on low?

My heart rate at rest seems to be somewhere about 50 - 60 BPM.

This is going to get complicated whether I like it or not isn't it!!!

Sniipe

Hey Ms_K_Sir_A, I am reading your post as it was a similar story for me. For me I found my HRM beeping at me saying I was going to fast.

Anyway with your settings you should follow this chart: http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/hrzones.php?minHR=55&maxHR=189&Submit=Calculate

Its a guideline, but ideally you should try and be in the anerobic zone hitting a heart rate of between 162 - 176.

Personally I couldn't keep this low until I went to a chiropractor and he stopped me from slouching. Essentially I went down 20bmp just from straightening up. I now enjoy my runs (very recently) and I keep tabs on my heart rate at all times (for now) and if I'm going above the average I slow down.

How did you work out your resting heart rate? I went to bed for 20min (where there are no distrations) with HRM on and then looked at it.

I'm also looking to 'fix' my run strike. I found from my run that I was "waisting" enegry from my back position, I'm probably losing some from heel strike (dont know if it is worth fixing this, but I'm going to look into it)

my 2 cent, from my recent experiences.

Ms K Sir A

Thanks Sniipe.

That link is great. That is the kind of thing I was looking for. I took my rest rate after lying down for about 15 minutes. I have no idea whether it is low high or otherwise. As I'm not very fit yet I can only presume a bit high. I would have said that the anerobic zone is where I am currently training. I thought I heard somewhere that if you stay training too 'fast' you will be counterproductive in the long run as far as the heart and lungs are concerned and therefore ultimately speed too.

Someone tell me...

Would a couple of sessions a week in the Aerobic Zone, which I guess translates into the light zone, one session in Anerobic and maybe one doing some sprints, be a good mix for getting my heart and lungs working more efficiently??? If I'm doing 4 a week, which one should I double up on?

I think you could be right about posture while running too... although I imagine I am running reasonably straight and upright... I don't find myself bending into the inclines... however... self observation isn't exactly reliable. I should probably talk to someone about that.

Thanks to everyone!! Sincerely.

Racing Flat

Unless you are going to get properly fitness tested (in a physiological sense) I really can't see any point in using the heart rate monitor. All of the estimates out there may be no good to you if you are an outlier (e.g. somoeone with a max HR of 210 or 150...).

In terms of your training, well most people recommend 2 sessions a week. In these sessions you might be working hard. But for all your other runs these may just be easy runs. So you should be comfrotable, thinking away to yourself, or chatting to friends as you are running. So all of your runs should certainly not feel hard.

If you are a complete beginner, I'd worry about nothing other than getting our for an easy run a few times a week. In a few months then you can start to worry about the nitty gritty.

In terms of the stuff going over your head, well to put it as simply as possible there are different parameters of fitness that can be developed to help you race better. Things like aerobic capacity, lactate threshold and VO2max for example. So different types of runs will benefit different parameters. As fas as I know you are as well to establish a good aerobic capacity before worrying about the others. So lots of easy running might be the way forward for now.

To get your head around it all a bit more, a book might help. The best one for starters if you ask me is 'The Competitive Runners Handbook' by Bob Glover. Don't let the title put you off...

Ms K Sir A

Thanks RF for the reply. I reckon the book may be a good idea. I was feeling neglectful training twice a week... upped it to 3... then throw in the occasional 4th stint. But they are short even if tough for me. So prob not exactly over doing it. When the feet get achy I take a break. Simple. Really depends on how much cycling and swimming I do too of course.

Thanks again for the help.