Cycling and Running

mmclo

I'm doing a 25k round trip commute, nothing spectacular and on a fairly basic mountain bike. It's helping a lot with fitness and weight loss which was one of the motivations.

Anyway I thought I might use all this extra fitness to do a bit of running (like the bike had done quite a bit many moons ago). It was a big shock, I could hardly do 1k!!

It has improved a bit but the cycling seems to have no impact! Is this to do with different muscles or weight etc. Maybe just need more time as cycling was tough at first but got into the commute fairly easily.

Are they chalk and cheese in terms of fitness and exercise?

Raam

mmclo wrote: »

Are they chalk and cheese in terms of fitness and exercise?

Pretty much. If you wanna be a good runner... run more. Cycling will be good for your cardio system, but gives you zero conditioning for the impact of running. I always hurt real bad after not running for a while and then doing even a short run.

Captain Havoc

Yep, they're two different ball games but you will build up a base fitness which will help the other.

godihatethehils

why not add in a little swim???....then we're talking REAL sport

thebouldwhacker

+1

Go for a long cycle so your legs are tired and then go for a run, jelly legs. Different set of musles. Dont worry that you only did 1km, having good a fitness level means you wont be long increasing your running distance. What not try entering an event to focus you, eireman is coming around again in the autum (its a tri though so you'll have to go swimming too)

kennyb3

mmclo wrote: »

I'm doing a 25k round trip commute, nothing spectacular and on a fairly basic mountain bike. It's helping a lot with fitness and weight loss which was one of the motivations.

Anyway I thought I might use all this extra fitness to do a bit of running (like the bike had done quite a bit many moons ago). It was a big shock, I could hardly do 1k!!

It has improved a bit but the cycling seems to have no impact! Is this to do with different muscles or weight etc. Maybe just need more time as cycling was tough at first but got into the commute fairly easily.

Are they chalk and cheese in terms of fitness and exercise?

from what you say you should have a good base level of fitness, so im surprised you can only do 1km, you should be able to do at least 3 to 5. i would suggest you are running too fast. what makes you stop

1. sore legs or
2. breathing

if its no. 1 htfu and if its two your running too fast. run slow and steady and build up the k's

Wez

I turned to cycling to lessen the impact on my knee's (which are in shreds after a few years of rugby) but I'm tempted to try get a little bit of running (on grass) in, to make sure I can run if I need to aswell as a bit of extra fitness..

Glad to see I'm not alone here!

mmclo

kennyb3 wrote: »

from what you say you should have a good base level of fitness, so im surprised you can only do 1km, you should be able to do at least 3 to 5. i would suggest you are running too fast. what makes you stop

1. sore legs or
2. breathing

if its no. 1 htfu and if its two your running too fast. run slow and steady and build up the k's

Second night was a lot better and I ran very slowly which may be it, certainly breathing more the issue, still carrying a lot of weight. Found recovery time much quicker second night out which I would ascribe to the cycling. Just doing a lot of stopping and starting to begin and then making the stops shorter, should get up to 5k fairly quickly like this.

blorg

They use completely different muscles, and no, beyond the aerobic base fitness there is little transfer.

Indeed you can build such a good aerobic base cycling that you will be able to seriously injure yourself running- newbie runners who are not otherwise fit would be more likely to run out of steam before they do themselves serious damage.

I found this when for my second run ever I tried 10km- heart and breathing were fine but I couldn't walk for a week after. Interestingly cycling was not affected.

Build it up slowly, you have to get your legs used to it. HTFU is the worst advice ever and a surefire ticket to injury.

You will get good tips in the Running/Athletics/Triathlon forum, they mix it all up over there.

Why are you running anyway, is your bike broken?

lukester

blorg wrote: »

Indeed you can build such a good aerobic base cycling that you will be able to seriously injure yourself running- newbie runners who are not otherwise fit would be more likely to run out of steam before they do themselves serious damage.

Indeed. Went for a run last year with the father-in-law (that's his bag) and aerobically I was fine, but for the rest of the week walking down stairs was very painful.

It takes a long time for the musculoskeletal system to adapt to the punishment of running. Gradual build-up is very important for this reason.

scottreynolds

I have done the same recently (but I'm a hard Man Kiwi). The most important benefit from your cycling, as mentioned above, is purely base fitness the muscles are different.

If you couldn't run for more than 1km (apart from shooting yourself) I'd say just start run walking. I did this last year, run one minute, walk one minute.... for 30 minutes three times a week... the next week 2minutes run 1 minte walk etc etc.... you don't need the fitness so much as the legs to get used to the impact. In saying that training 33 miles this week and my legs are killing me *CAVEAT FOR ROK*

Running is generally at a higher HR than cycling. My hour long runs are about 160 BPM running along briskly but cycling normal would be anything from 130 -150 go okay but not pushing... around 30km/h. The biggest difference between running fitness and cycling fitness is the impact from running and also the duration you can excercise.

As others said all you need to do then is add swimming and bobs your uncle you'll be a legend.

scottreynolds

blorg wrote: »

found this when for my second run ever I tried 10km- heart and breathing were fine but I couldn't walk for a week after.

but this was most like due to you crashing, into a lamppost, while running....

seamus

blorg wrote: »

Indeed you can build such a good aerobic base cycling that you will be able to seriously injure yourself running- newbie runners who are not otherwise fit would be more likely to run out of steam before they do themselves serious damage.

I found this when for my second run ever I tried 10km- heart and breathing were fine but I couldn't walk for a week after. Interestingly cycling was not affected.

One here too. About 3/4 years ago I was doing some treadmill work, I think I was able to manage maybe 2.5 - 3k in 30 mins, and I'd be absolutely shattered (was a lot less fit back then). Stopped gymming pretty much as soon as I started cycling 2 years ago.

Fast-forward to Monday last week, I was away on business, hotel had a gym, but I find gym bikes to be boring so decided to jump on the treadmill. Ran 5k in 30 mins, sweating but not tired, only had some minor pain in the knee on one leg. So I was pretty chuffed at the massive leap in fitness that cycling gave me.

24 hours later I was crippled. Couldn't walk properly until Thursday, still felt the pain up until Saturday.

I would like to do a bit of running (easy supplement for those off-days), but I'm going to have to build it up starting at 1k...

kennyb3

blorg wrote: »

HTFU is the worst advice ever and a surefire ticket to injury.

Blorg,

I should have clarified, i dont mean run through pains or proper aches/injury, what i meant was that too many people take it too easy on themselves and say god this hard I should probably stop. A bit of grit and determination is necessary. no pain no gain and all that.

sore muscles the next day is a nice feeling. take a rest day then or go for a long walk. if the aches are for more than a day or two after as others have mentioned above you ve done too much at once.

listen to your body but dont give in to the easy option

daymobrew

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Why not try entering an event to focus you, eireman is coming around again in the autum (its a tri though so you'll have to go swimming too)

Or be like me who likes to stay dry and just does duathlons.

mmclo

Thanks for the tips...let's leave swimming for another day...only learnt in the last few years! (but it is in the mix)

Must say don't feel any of the pains the next day so that's something, the run walk idea gradually reducing the walk works well I find, shattered when finished say 1k but recover very quickly.

I think there is a psychological aspect too, running is basically less enjoyable and more of a chore, cycling has the potential for a bit of a freewheel etc. Also for commuting there is a very functional aspect i.e. a-b, I did a lot more cycling when young and found it a lot easier to take up again

thebouldwhacker

I started running again at the end of last year, I picked a route with hills that I was happy with and a flat straight trail where I had privicy to do short work on. All in all its about 5miles + repeats on the straight. I started it after a 2 week warm up period. I never put myself under undue pressure and always made a point of enjoying it. I would head out as early as possible after work and run/walk to begin with. Run one minute walk 30 seconds etc, gradually ran more walked less etc. After a month I was still injury free and had made massive improvments in my times. That was for a 10 mile rr which I compleated with a good time (for me) and managed to run nearly all of it which was an achivement in itself esp as I had to quit training one month before the race.

This will not work for everyone but it worked for me, I really looked forward to the training as I never pushed myself to injury. I kept good records and that gave me targets to hit and kept me interested. I am a firm believer in training for a reason so I always have some kind of target or event to work towards be it a 5 km fun run or a marathon (i wish). Check out the ART forum too, they have training logs , share training tips and seem quite welcoming to newbies.

blorg

mmclo wrote: »

I think there is a psychological aspect too, running is basically less enjoyable and more of a chore, cycling has the potential for a bit of a freewheel etc.

If you continue to find it a chore TBH there is little point in doing it, that doesn't mean stop now but if you are not enjoying it in a few months why bother. If you are looking to get fit you can do that with the bike alone and with far less risk of injury. I'd say the bike is also a lot better if you are overweight.

I'd say running is more intense but there is also more in the way of endorphins involved, psychologically it should be addictive not a chore.

petethedrummer

mmclo wrote: »

I think there is a psychological aspect too, running is basically less enjoyable and more of a chore, cycling has the potential for a bit of a freewheel etc.

Running can become enjoyable, its a steeper curve than cycling at the start and it takes a while to get to that level. A few weeks or a month of regular running your mind should be able to wander off and think of other things rather than the pain your going through.

Careful though, running magazines have whole sections dedicated to injuries, which can be a bit worrying.

blorg

@kennyb3- fair enough but you also said that someone who is looking to lose weight (and thus is presumably overweight) should be able to throw themselves into a 3-5km run straight from the level of fitness they have from a 25km commute. That is way too much IMHO. Knackered from 1km sounds about right to me.

I was cycling 500-700km weeks coming up to the winter when I first took up running; my first run was 2km and I found it bloody tough. 10km was the second and that was stupid. After that I eased myself into it half way properly and built up the mileage gradually.

OP- general rule of thumb would be to aim for 10% increase per week. This is especially important in running due to the impact nature, I think you can sometimes stretch that 10% on the bike. Remember, just like compound interest a consistent 10% increase per week will have you doing decent distances in no time (consistent average, many training plans suggest an easy week in every four where you back it off a bit.)

MarbleCityCycle

I done two marathons in October last year, one being the Loch Ness and three weeks later in Dublin. I didn't do any running before August but a nice bit of cycling (I've taken it up 6 months previously). I had to condition my legs to run but my lungs held up way better than even before. Defintely notice an improvement in the legs once I got a few miles under them.

I believe they help each other, both physically and mentally (variety is the spice of life etc).

scottreynolds

MarbleCityCycle wrote: »

I believe they help each other, both physically and mentally (variety is the spice of life etc).

+1 there.

kennyb3

blorg wrote: »

@kennyb3- fair enough but you also said that someone who is looking to lose weight (and thus is presumably overweight) should be able to throw themselves into a 3-5km run straight from the level of fitness they have from a 25km commute. That is way too much IMHO. Knackered from 1km sounds about right to me.

I was cycling 500-700km weeks coming up to the winter when I first took up running; my first run was 2km and I found it bloody tough. 10km was the second and that was stupid. After that I eased myself into it half way properly and built up the mileage gradually.

OP- general rule of thumb would be to aim for 10% increase per week. This is especially important in running due to the impact nature, I think you can sometimes stretch that 10% on the bike. Remember, just like compound interest a consistent 10% increase per week will have you doing decent distances in no time (consistent average, many training plans suggest an easy week in every four where you back it off a bit.)

maybe you are right, when the Op said about using all this extra fitness i took him to be in reasonable shape not significantly overweight. i really feel that 2.5 to 3k is very achievable if you run at the right pace and 5k is achievable if you take a break in the middle. in my experience its the pacing that people have trouble with. 7 or 8 plus mins per km to start out with. I have helped many of my friend and my girlfriend get into running and 90% of the time its a pace issue. if you can walk 10km then if you go jog slow enough you can certainly get 3km done but thats just MHO.

Ryaner

This thread has made me feel much better after running yesterday for the first time in 6 months. Glad to know that other feel the pain too. Although a 5km run in 30 minutes felt about the same as the first 160km of the W200

lukester

MarbleCityCycle wrote: »

I believe they help each other, both physically and mentally (variety is the spice of life etc).

If you like running, it is. If I have a free hour, I'd much rather cycle than run.

mmclo

Think motivation is a target like a 5k or 10k no more,(signed up for phoenix park 5k this w/e and don't really want to walk any of it!) cycling still main fitness acitivity mainly because commuting is quite functional but intend to get better bike (hybrid) and extend things a bit on this front too

blorg

lukester wrote: »

If you like running, it is. If I have a free hour, I'd much rather cycle than run.

It can be easier (especially if you live in a city) to get a good workout in a limited amount of time running rather than cycling, it is more intense and you can start from wherever you happen to be... It's also more pleasant in the rain than cycling IMHO. I agree with you, have to like it, I am just saying liking it is possible

I have not been out running in near a year now myself, only barely got into it and then the last of the duathlon series last year and I was done. It was a dry winter perfect for cycling, when the snow came I had my mountain bike Swimming has taken a similar back seat, both were really things I did when the weather was too bad to cycle.

lukester

blorg wrote: »

It can be easier (especially if you live in a city) to get a good workout in a limited amount of time running rather than cycling, it is more intense and you can start from wherever you happen to be... It's also more pleasant in the rain than cycling IMHO. I agree with you, have to like it, I am just saying liking it is possible

I hear you, I've done a bit of running myself, most recently last winter after a baby arrived in our house and I wanted to squeeze in quick workouts. I enjoyed running in the cold and rain. I've also done swimming over the years, enjoy that too, but it can be a hassle getting to a pool.

But I would still prefer to cycle, even in the wet. When it's dark it's a bit less appealing. This winter I plan to rely on a club to get out for at least weekly spins through the winter

blorg

Cycling in the dark is fine if you have a good set of lights, I did plenty of very long cycles in the dark last winter.

DirkVoodoo

Running is super lame! Let's get this football going soon, I haven't run/kicked a ball in a year!

Raam

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Running is super lame! Let's get this football going soon, I haven't run/kicked a ball in a year!

eh, this is the cycling forum.

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

eh, this is the cycling forum.

Good point. But come on, admit that you want to have a kickabout?

Raam

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Good point. But come on, admit that you want to have a kickabout?

I used to play 3 or 4 times a week.

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

I used to play 3 or 4 times a week.

Good, then whats the problem?? You must be somewhat good?

Raam

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Good, then whats the problem?? You must be somewhat good?

I found cycling

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

I found cycling

Thumbs down, thumbs down!

Captain Havoc

This is my weekly routine:
Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Thursday - Cycling
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday - Football
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday - No Sex.

Enduro

Cycling is great for running.

I'm an Irish international ultrarunner, and I reckon one of my big advantages is the amount of cycling I combine in to my training regime. This particularly applies to hillrunning. Its very noticable at hill running races that when good cyclists try hillrunning for the first time they are usually excellent at climbing (and conversly crap at descending!). The reverse also seems to apply.

The fact that running and cycling use different muscle sets is one of the great strenghts of using them in combination. A lot of common running injuries (such as runner's knee) are caused by unbalanced muscle development. Combining cycling and running greatly reduces the likehood of getting these injuries (to zero for me, and hardly anyone in Ireland runs longer distances than I do).