Sniper question

UCD dude

hey guys im considering ordering the jg bar-10 from eirsoft but i was just wondering if a sniper is useless in the airsoft skirmishes as it shoots only at 320 fps the same as most of the aeg's....i know 328 is the legal limit in ireland but surely a snipers best asset is that he usually has range over the opponents in the skirmishes,but with just 320 fps does this not render the sniper pretty much useless? to be in range to hit people it means your also in range to be hit by a barrage of bb's from an aeg.would be better if snipers were allowed more fps but that is just my opinion! also anyone have anything to say about the jg bar-10?reviews seem good all round but then ive mostly been reading reviews from americansand their bar-10's dont have a 328 fps limit!
thanks in advance,

Tomebagel

The limit is 328 fps on .2g bb's,

the jg bar10 is a brilliant quality sniper but its range and accuracy can be matched by many aegs,alot of people agree that snipers are pointless in skirmishes and opt for an aeg for the additional choice of fully automatic,

you could always 'pimp' up an aeg to make it a sort of fully automatic sniper tho:D

Killinator

It all comes down to how you execute the role of a sniper,
You can have all the range you want but if you cant conceal yourself and move un-noticed then your gonna get shot as quick as the next guy,
I have on plenty of occasion seen wher people play the sniper role with nothing but their bolt action rifle and a pistol for back-up, but in airsoft with our fps limit its all down to field craft, movement and recon.
Instead of shooting at long range stay low and hidden and let your enemies get close to where you assured a silent kill(advantage of bolt actions-far quiter than most aeg's)

Firekitten

Ok, firstly, tome.... not so true.

The vsr hop gives it extrodinery range compared to an aeg... FPS has very little to do with range over 300fps, and more with speed of flight.

The vsr hop unit allows long range accurate fire, IF set up correctly, ie, zeroed right, and the hop set.

To take advantage of the hop, i advise setting the hop a little high, so the path of the bb rises then comes down to its target, it gives you a good 20m extra range, and you WILL be beyond Aeg range....

i used my 320 vsr against 350 aegs and still had range.

as Kill rightly pointed out, a sniper's main danger is NOT posed by his range.

Accurate long range shooting is one facet of the role of a sniper in airsoft.

Your role is as a hunter...
covert movement, stealth, and the one shot before vanishing. No, its not glamourous, no, its not gucci or l33t, or a quick way to outrange everyone and therefore 'win'.

being a sniper takes the skills of the infantryman, and masters them. Its about not being there... An oposing team can be demoralised enough just by knowing you are operating if you're good. It can severely limit thier movement and ability to fight, allowing the ground pounders to do thier job.

Disclaimer: as a sniper, do not expect one meeelion killz, this isnt cod4, and the rules of video games need not apply.

Spetzcong

fully agree with the above, also, if you're part of a team, a decent set of coms are a great boon to the sniper, I've played games where our teams sniper hasn't fired a shot, but managed to relay enemy movement to the rest of us through coms letting us do the dirty work.

I personally have no experience sniping, but I have seen people playing as snipers cause more disruption to the enemy team through stealth, relaying info and one or two well placed shots than an army of AEG users could have caused.

When played well a sniper is one of the handiest people to have on your team even with the 1 joule limit.

xxboylarzxx

in my opinion i think its pointless as ive come up against snipers in the past and never got hit by one!you dont really need a sniper for intel gathering it can be easily done with an aeg!

Firekitten

I think you mistake the ROLE of a sniper with a sniper rifle. Ofcourse a recon role can be fulfilled perfectly well. But I doubt the sort of game experience you have where they are 'useless'. That, or you have only ever played against rather lousy snipers...

Also... how can you tell if you have been hit by one or not ? :P We arent sneaky ninjas for nothing :P

Spetzcong

Firekitten wrote: »

Also... how can you tell if you have been hit by one or not ? :P We arent sneaky ninjas for nothing :P

Well I know our team sniper's main complaint is that some people do the whole "hmmm, I've been hit, have a look around, nobody saw, right so, let's continue". If anything that'd be the thing that I reckon would be the biggest drawback to being a sniper. Head, hand and crotch shots are his answer, and he's damn good at them too.

xxboylarzxx

i am an honest player and even if i think i was hit i take it!!whats the point of the game if no1 takes them!its all part of the fun!and every hit on me was by an aeg.i do admit that there are verry talented snipers out there but i just like the whole charging at the enemy and constantly on the move!:D:pac::D:pac:

Killinator

Charging along is fun alright,
But equaly fun(maybe more intense) is hiding in a trench wearing some trees on your helmet, and waiting as an enemy approaches and is on course to walk on top of you,
when you say bang and see them just stop shocked at your presence in touching distance of them its one of those epic feelings that make this game worth coming back to again and again

Sinister747

I have a JG BAR10 G-Spec and i love it, its great at airsoft sites, but as mentioned above its all about how you play Airsoft. However i very strongly recommend you take an AEG with you aswell because you can get very frustrated because of people getting the same range etc.

I do wish they would bring in the UK limit system for snipers etc, AEG = 1j and Sniper = 1.5j, I think this would be a welcome change for myself anyway.

Lemming

Sinister747 wrote: »

I have a JG BAR10 G-Spec and i love it, its great at airsoft sites, but as mentioned above its all about how you play Airsoft. However i very strongly recommend you take an AEG with you aswell because you can get very frustrated because of people getting the same range etc.

I do wish they would bring in the UK limit system for snipers etc, AEG = 1j and Sniper = 1.5j, I think this would be a welcome change for myself anyway.

On behalf of the FireKitten (who is currently deprived of internets):

I think it's time to dispel a few myths and assumed practices. Basically a sniper rifle does not behave in the same way as an AEG. They have different tolerances & performance characteristics despite both having a barrel, hop-up, etc.

The main difference between a good sniper rifle & a great sniper rifle is in how it is set up. The standard practice of setting hop-up will have the BB travel in a straight line before dropping off; perfect for a short-range contact but useless for anything longer. With a sniper rifle you will typically not be engaging targets at close range. Setting the hop-up to rise slightly initially will vastly increase the range. You will still maintain your accuracy but you will find that your zone of accurate fire moves forward twenty to thirty metres

It may seem contrary to popular design but this is a technique used by many experienced airsoft snipers. Even at around 320 fps you will find the rifle reaching out to around 70 metres (tested with a bar-10). Ammo weight is also crucial to optimal performance.

Even before adding precision upgrade parts, you will find careful application of both these points will vastly increase range & accuracy; even at 1j and better than a typical AEG.

I hope this helps people see the points I'm trying to make and to understand that sniping is not as pointless as some individuals make out. Personally I own a maruzen L96A1 at 500fps and a 320fps BAR-10. The only difference between the two rifles in performance terms are the ammunition weights used with each riflle and in range terms the only advantage that 500fps gives the L96 is that BBs arrive faster.

Spetzcong

xxboylarzxx wrote: »

i am an honest player and even if i think i was hit i take it!!whats the point of the game if no1 takes them!its all part of the fun!and every hit on me was by an aeg.i do admit that there are verry talented snipers out there but i just like the whole charging at the enemy and constantly on the move!:D:pac::D:pac:

I wasn't implying that you are a dishonest player, I don't even know ya, and I'm not the sort that would go around throwing accusations like that without very good reason, especially not over the internet.

My observation was just in relation to things I've heard our sniper mention as being frustrating.

I agree with you about the charging at the enemy thing, I don't have the particular skills or the patience to make a good sniper and it's not a playstyle I personally enjoy. I do have a lot of respect for people who are good at it, as in my opinion it's the hardest role in airsoft to succeed at.

markY6222

UCD dude wrote: »

hey guys im considering ordering the jg bar-10 from eirsoft but i was just wondering if a sniper is useless in the airsoft skirmishes as it shoots only at 320 fps the same as most of the aeg's....i know 328 is the legal limit in ireland but surely a snipers best asset is that he usually has range over the opponents in the skirmishes,but with just 320 fps does this not render the sniper pretty much useless? to be in range to hit people it means your also in range to be hit by a barrage of bb's from an aeg.would be better if snipers were allowed more fps but that is just my opinion! also anyone have anything to say about the jg bar-10?reviews seem good all round but then ive mostly been reading reviews from americansand their bar-10's dont have a 328 fps limit!
thanks in advance,

Nah if u have a good airsoft rifle u will be fine Try to buy over 190 euro
and u must have a bi-pod and a scope

seamus-2k7

markY6222 wrote: »

Nah if u have a good airsoft rifle u will be fine Try to buy over 190 euro
and u must have a bi-pod and a scope

Thats not true at all.

I've never seen any serious airsoft sniper bother with a bipod. I used one when I started sniping, never used one since.

I use a scope, i find it helps me but I once knew i sniper who used iron sights and it worked for him.

I spent 170 on my bar10 and its perfectly good.

Lemming

markY6222 wrote: »

Nah if u have a good airsoft rifle u will be fine Try to buy over 190 euro

I appreciate that this may be ironic coming from me of all people (Shiva, stop laughing in the background please. And no you can't have my credit card details again), but money does not defacto equate to "better". You can buy a more expensive rifle that may have better quality control, finish, etc. but if it's set up wrong it all amounts to naught at the end of the day.

and u must have a bi-pod and a scope

A scope for a sniper is kind of a given. Your scope is not just for making precision shots but for observation as well. There are also few airsoft sniper rifles with good iron sights.

As for bipods? I've used a sniper rifle without a bipod far more than I've used it with one, although I'll also add that there's nothing particularly right or wrong in that; it all just depends on circumstance and what makes the most stable platform at any given moment in time. I was taking shots with FireKitten's L96A1 at Catterick using a sand-sock (think miniature sandbag) whilst occupying the rooftop of a 5-storey building since a bipod wasn't really all that practical at that height and elevation. The sock allowed me to keep my profile lower to the building roof, and we had a tripod mount as well which allowed us to set up well back inside rooms and use spy holes around the 3ft height mark comfortably for long periods of time. The L96A1 had a bipod attached, but it just didn't see much use given the surroundings that we found ourselves in on the day.

I wont agree with Seamus in saying that there's no point to a bipod however. Much like everything else, they serve a purpose and there's a time and place where they are useful and not so much so.

TBH, FireKitten would be far better placed to comment on this than I since I am not an experienced airsoft sniper. She is. I can only comment on my experience and what I've learned and/or observed from her.

markY6222

Oh so r u saying u could buy a vsr 10 chinese clone for 69.00euro of mia and it will be better than a tokyo marui vsr 10 wish it was but that would be crap 4 tm so its not

Lemming

markY6222 wrote: »

Oh so r u saying u could buy a vsr 10 chinese clone for 69.00euro of mia and it will be better than a tokyo marui vsr 10 wish it was but that would be crap 4 tm so its not

And the FireKitten speaketh:

Firstly, what the hell are you saying? Try English next time.

Now, this is MIA remember. €69? bar10? You're having a laugh aren't you? On eirsoft, it's roughly €180 for a bar10 and Tony keeps his profit margins low. The exact description against the €69 AGM MP001 listed on MIA reads as follows:

MIA wrote:

This is not a genuine VSR 10, but a very affordable copy.

Ok, so at their own admission it's not a vsr10. Unfortunately for them, it's not a very good copy either. Of course it's not as good as a TM vsr 10 ...

However, a JG bar10 is as good as a TM vsr10 when both have been upgraded/downgraded to 328fps (for the sake of consistency in testing. One cannot compare a 400fps rifle to one that is sub 300fps stock). JG quality control, contra to long standing airsoft rumour, is excellent now. The old myth "lol china am hit & miss" is outdated nonsense. One cannot compare a rifle of different construction with the vsr10 as you did.

Kitten.

Firekitten

Now kitten actually speaketh without the lemming proxy... (btw composing a post over the phone is hard work XD)

If people would Like, I could run up a post for stickyage on this subject... it seems a lot of the same issues, questions and moans keep rising again and again...

johnny test

Firekitten wrote: »

Now kitten actually speaketh without the lemming proxy... (btw composing a post over the phone is hard work XD)

If people would Like, I could run up a post for stickyage on this subject... it seems a lot of the same issues, questions and moans keep rising again and again...

Yes please any advice would be great

Byrne rules

In case it matters to some now, another way a sniper is better in terms of range is that inside the barrel, it is slightly tilted upwards instead of being straight like a aeg, giving it longer range

I was told this by a martial at hrta a while ago(i also think he was on the ghosts)

Firekitten

Byrne rules wrote: »

In case it matters to some now, another way a sniper is better in terms of range is that inside the barrel, it is slightly tilted upwards instead of being straight like a aeg, giving it longer range

I was told this by a martial at hrta a while ago(i also think he was on the ghosts)

hahahahahahha excelent

I think the marshal either was talking out of his hairy buttocks, or having you on mate...

ah, ghosts... well... heh

ED E

BioHazRd

Byrne rules wrote: »

I was told this by a martial at hrta a while ago(i also think he was on the ghosts)

lol - to the best of my knowledge, no member of the ghosts marshalls at hrta (or anywhere else for that matter)

bluestripe93

i have the agm mpoo1 from mia and its good for the price, i think you can get something good without spending too much

NakedDex

Byrne rules wrote: »

In case it matters to some now, another way a sniper is better in terms of range is that inside the barrel, it is slightly tilted upwards instead of being straight like a aeg, giving it longer range

I was told this by a martial at hrta a while ago(i also think he was on the ghosts)

I have never laughed so much, or so hard at something that wasn't a genuine joke in my entire life. Even the lads in work, who know nothing about airsoft in any shape or form, wee'd themselves at this concept. For the sake of sane people everywhere, find whoever told you this and tell them just how much they were talking out of their arse. Or better yet, get them to explain how that's supposed to work, that should be a hoot.


I have seen more people with sniper rifles than I care to remember. Both those I've sold to players and those I've met on skirmish fields. The number must be closing on the hundreds at this stage. However, I could count the number of actual snipers I've seen (or have not seen, as the case may be) on one hand.
Sniping is an art. A sniper rifle doesn't make you a sniper any more than having a paintbrush makes you an artist or a Nomex suit covered in patches makes you an F1 driver. An effective sniper is bloody terrifying but receives none of the glory an assaulter would get for killing an equal number of people because noone knows they're there. Most people don't understand this and prefer to go for the Mark Wahlberg school of Hollywood sniping. I've genuinely seen more than one person firing a boltie while running. One of them was hip shooting...
You can't compensate for skill with kit. Having the best, most tarted up sniper rifle is pointless if you have all the stealth ability of an epileptic hyena in an Ibiza night club. With Tourettes. Similarly, if you have a complete lack of patience, you may as well trade in your boltie for an M16 now and settle into a riflemans role.

If you want to learn to be a sniper (and it's one of the few roles in airsoft you really have to actually learn with intent), pick up a JG BAR 10 second hand (or new if you're that way inclined) and get some pointers from one of the established snipers. If you find it suits you, the BAR 10 is a great platform for upgrades (and the only really decent budget boltie in my opinion). If it doesn't, BAR 10's hold their value rather well and you won't have any trouble selling it on.

Stercus Accidit

I think you'll find that's the old aim slightly upwards school of extra range gain.

A spin off of the looky looky the scope can be adjusted method.



/end cruel sarcasm

Firekitten

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I think you'll find that's the old aim slightly upwards school of extra range gain.

A spin off of the looky looky the scope can be adjusted method.



/end cruel sarcasm

or as ive mentioned, a tiny bit too much hop goes a long way... literally.

zero19

That's where a mil-dot scope is handy...hilarious thread this

Stercus Accidit

zero19 wrote: »

That's where a mil-dot scope is handy...hilarious thread this

We'll be a sarky american airsoft forum before you know it.

yay

edit: Had a read back, lol, ssg is a vsr alternative now, heck, I'm a cheapskate that bloody owns a ssg, they aren't a vsr or bar 10 thats for sure.

Firekitten

I've yet to see mildots provide any use in airsoft other than counting when im bored...

I think ill write up the Boards Sniper School thread ive been threatening for a while. Not to come accross as egotistical, but its what I do... and id like to impart some knowlage to those that apparently here keep asking ...

I do in morning, i r tired, and i cant imagine it being a short one... *sigh*

NakedDex

You keep that dark art to yourself. I don't want you corrupting young minds.












Besides, we've got Hive for doing our young corruption already, and he gets antsy when others try to take that away from him.

zero19

But mildots work well with tilted upward barrels! lol