Daughter and friend

LegacyUser

I hope someone can help me on this. I'm the mother of a 15 year old daughter who has a 16 year old best friend. I came home from work yesterday and saw the the two of them out on the back lawn sunbathing just in their bikini bottoms (face up). I pretended I didn't see, banged a few doors in the house so they'd know I was home, and when I next looked out the tops were back on and they were on their fronts. Just wondering if I should bring this up with her and what I should say. Our back lawn is fairly secluded but I don't want my husband or 11 year old daughter seeing anything like this.

SarahSassy

I presume its your house and you pay the mortgage - tell her you saw her and you dont want her sunbathing topless in the back garden

You are the adult, its your house and your rules.

Lollipops23

if they were sure there was nobody in the house then what's the problem?if there were neighbours nearby who could see then i'd understand,but she was just sunbathing topless-something done on beaches all around the world.

fair enough,you don't want your hubby and child to see,but she was alone.

doctor evil

Whats the problem? I would be more concerned that they had suncream on.

Sarah W

Breasts are fairly common occurrences - 50% of the population have them (excluding man boobs). By all means advise your daughter on the dangers of skin damage/cancer and exposing them inappropriate situations but sunbathing in the secluded back garden is not exactly inappropriate.

Permabear

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CDfm

If my 16 y/o daughter and friend were doing this - I would have shoved my head out the window and shouted dress yerselves.

You obviously dont approve and seem to have a tuff time getting the words out. Parents are supposed to huff and puff a bit to give a bit of guidence.

You are the adult and she is the child BTW and you are sneaking around.

Permabear

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miles teg

Unregistered wrote: »

... I don't want my husband or 11 year old daughter seeing anything like this.

I'm sorry if I'm unhelpful but I have to ask what's the big concern about your husband?

LegacyUser

This is the OP again. Thanks for the responses. I suppose I'm just asking if this is an acceptable thing for a girl of this age to be doing, I don't wnat to come down on her like a ton of bricks if most parents would consider it ok.

miles teg wrote: »

I'm sorry if I'm unhelpful but I have to ask what's the big concern about your husband?

I just don't want him seeing my daughter topless, I think that would make them both (and me) extremely uncomfortable.

Taltos

Unregistered wrote: »

I suppose I'm just asking if this is an acceptable thing for a girl of this age to be doing, I don't wnat to come down on her like a ton of bricks if most parents would consider it ok.

Acceptability is for you and your husband to decide.
When was parenting by consensus a good idea?

Just because it is fine on some beaches and in some countries does not mean you have to find it acceptable. Your house, your rules.

Unregistered wrote: »

I just don't want him seeing my daughter topless, I think that would make them both (and me) extremely uncomfortable.

See this is the nub of the issue - your feeling uncomfortable.
It is your house - and this is meant to be the one place where you can relax and be yourself. If anything is preventing this then speak up.

If she wants to go topless - then find an appropriate place - eg topless beach / tanning salon / her own house when she is old enough.

By the by - am not recommending the tanning salon - example only.
Also I am not telling you what is right or wrong here - whether I think she should be allowed to do this or not - as a parent - that is you and your husbands choice, provided said choice causes no harm.

biko

Unregistered wrote: »

This is the OP again. Thanks for the responses. I suppose I'm just asking if this is an acceptable thing for a girl of this age to be doing, I don't wnat to come down on her like a ton of bricks if most parents would consider it ok.

I'd say it's very common in Europe and that it's ok. Ask your husband and you can both come to an agreement on what to do.

the_dark_side

its a cultural thing... this would be fine in Germany/Holland

Have you spoken to your husband? I think this is the first step, you may find that he is totally comfortable with it and then you are worrying for nothing.

As for your 11 year old daughter, I don't see any issue with her seeing this, it is of course only natural, and infact, it will help her understand during puberty that the changes happening to her body are normal and nothing to be ashamed of.

I personally would be, as others have pointed out, be concerned that she is looking after her skin.

Antilles

OP, I'm going to try read between the lines here so you will have to forgive me. A father seeing his 15 year old daughter topless would be embarrassing for both, but hardly traumatic. An 11 year old seeing her sister topless would be even less of an issue. I think you are using these as a "morality shield" to distort your real problem, which is you do not want your husband looking at a sexually mature girl (your daughters friend) in your home.

You have every right to feel that way, OP. Maybe you are uncomfortable admitting it because you think doing so would suggest you dont trust your husband, or that you see this girl as a sexual rival.

It doesnt matter, really. Its your house so your rules. Tell your daughter you dont want her and her friend topless in the garden, but drop the "think of the children!" excuse. Its paper thin and just makes you seem like a prude.

Jumpy

Id say let em off. If they are in private there is nothing bad about it.
At least she isnt so self concious about herself that she covers herself in 20 layers of goth clothes.
Just warn your husband that its the frying pan to the face if he tries to peek at her friend.

You have to set boundaries for teenagers, but I think enforcing this one is a little "Irish Catholic Over-the-Top"

Public is a no-no though of course. But I think she is probably smart enough to know that.

Explosive_Cornflake

Antilles wrote: »

OP, I'm going to try read between the lines here so you will have to forgive me. A father seeing his 15 year old daughter topless would be embarrassing for both, but hardly traumatic. An 11 year old seeing her sister topless would be even less of an issue. I think you are using these as a "morality shield" to distort your real problem, which is you do not want your husband looking at a sexually mature girl (your daughters friend) in your home.

You have every right to feel that way, OP. Maybe you are uncomfortable admitting it because you think doing so would suggest you dont trust your husband, or that you see this girl as a sexual rival.

It doesnt matter, really. Its your house so your rules. Tell your daughter you dont want her and her friend topless in the garden, but drop the "think of the children!" excuse. Its paper thin and just makes you seem like a prude.

I was assuming he was not the father of the child. If he is the father, then she's as much his daughter as the she is the mothers.

LegacyUser

I really fail to grasp how you could possibly object to your 11 year old daughter observing a pair of tits. Simply can't get my head around that. Is it going to have some terrible impact on her that observing her own (presumably) in a mirror in a few years time wont have? You don't suppose she has already seen some, gasp !

Are you overreacting - yes, a lot.<snip>

Terodil

Maybe it's my German socialisation speaking here but... what on earth is the problem?

They were enjoying the sun in a private backgarden of an otherwise empty house. If anybody was peeping then I would give the peeping tom a stern talking to (at least).

As soon as they realised they weren't alone any more, they covered themselves up.

Nobody was hurt, they didn't really do anything obscene, so erm... what is the problem? why do we even need to discuss whose house it is?

Crash Bang Wall

U have to say something IMO. Not really appropriate with a younger daughter. Wouldnt be an issue if all kids were grown up. I would imagine the Dad would also feel awkward if he had come home and found them

cnocbui

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

U have to say something IMO. Not really appropriate with a younger daughter.

Could you please explain exactly why it would not be appropriate, since I don't understand how that could be.

Mary42

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

U have to say something IMO. Not really appropriate with a younger daughter.

What's not appropriate? The 11 year is probably developing breasts anyway

They covered themselves up when they realised there was someone in the house. Anyway I'd be more concerned about them applying sunscreen / being sunsmart.

kittenkiller

Antilles wrote: »

OP, I'm going to try read between the lines here so you will have to forgive me. A father seeing his 15 year old daughter topless would be embarrassing for both, but hardly traumatic. An 11 year old seeing her sister topless would be even less of an issue. I think you are using these as a "morality shield" to distort your real problem, which is you do not want your husband looking at a sexually mature girl (your daughters friend) in your home.

You have every right to feel that way, OP. Maybe you are uncomfortable admitting it because you think doing so would suggest you dont trust your husband, or that you see this girl as a sexual rival.

It doesnt matter, really. Its your house so your rules. Tell your daughter you dont want her and her friend topless in the garden, but drop the "think of the children!" excuse. Its paper thin and just makes you seem like a prude.

+1

I was thinking this myself.
Have a chat with your daughter if she's doing something you're not comfortable with in your home.

LegacyUser

OP again here.

I am just wondering how to react to the situation. I don't want to be accused of cracking down on my daughter and being overly harsh.

To the person who said I see my daughter's best friend as a "sexual rival", well that is just wrong. I just don't think it's appropriate for a father to be looking at his 15 year old daughter half naked (or her 16 year old friend either) and I suspect that the majority of Irish mothers would feel the same way. I'm hardly worried that my 41 year old husband is going to run off with a 16 year old girl, in fact the thought is a bit laughable.

I also don't feel that it is appropriate for an 11 year old child. Yes, she is a girl, but I still don't think it's appropriate.

Oh The Humanity

Dont worry about the 11 year old, sure there are boobs a plenty in the papers every day. Its nothing.

Just have a word with your daughter and explain her friend and your husband might be embarassed if they bumped into each other unexpecedly when the friend is topless.

Thats all, no big deal.

Just explain you want to spare the friend and husbands blushes!

Kipperhell

Thinking solely of the father I would be extremely uncomfortable with the daughter's friend being topless near the house. I am pretty sure the other father wouldn't be impressed about that thought either. You can say what you like about other countries but other people in this country think in an Irish way which is what you need to be aware of.

There are lots of reasons to be uncomfortable about it and I think saying it is prudish is to assume there can only be one possible reason.

OP simply tell your daughter that you saw them and don't think it is a good idea if her father was in that situation with her friend due to how others may react and how it would be uncomfortable for both. Or you can simply say you don't want it happening again and thems the rules but personally I think you should only use such authority on vital things.

Terodil

Hi OP, thanks for the clarification. I can also understand that the father might be embarassed looking at the 16yo friend; that goes without saying. However, a father would know how to handle this. Why do you think he would handle it any differently than you did? He might bang the doors in the house just like you did, they'd cover up, no harm done.

But...

Unregistered wrote: »

I just don't think it's appropriate for a father to be looking at his 15 year old daughter half naked

this is truly worrisome. Why do you think it's inappropriate that the father sees *his own* daughter naked? I honestly cannot wrap my mind around this. It's not as if he hasn't seen naked women before; your daughter's existence bears testament to that. Do you have any reason to mistrust him? Do you think he'd get a kick out of seeing her naked? I realise that the recent events on the news may bring unwanted thoughts to mind but you really, really need to realise that your husband is not a criminal psycho who's going to lock your daughter in the basement and... you know, just because he sees her sunbathing.

TBH OP your posts reek of a deep mistrust regarding your husband. It's not a problem of your daughter sunbathing, it's a problem of you not believing that your husband could handle the situation. Only you know why this is, and I would like to suggest you explore this path more than reflecting on how to handle a real nothing that your daughter did.

Bluefoam

I find some of the overreactions here a bit worrying...

outspann

The more I read some of these posts, the more worried I get about the "it's your house, so you tell them what to do". Yes, it may well be your house. But it is also their home. Just as much as it is your home. In fact, given that it may well be the ONLY home they have ever known, they may have more of an attachment to it than you do.

I'd be wary of dragging out the nuclear option of saying "do this or hit the road" for an issue this small.

I'm also somewhat concerned as to why it would be SO wrong if your husband saw his daughter topless? I mean, I'm guessing that he saw her topless for a good number of years, so it's only recently that you believe it's an issue. But assuming - and this is just hypothetical, I admit - that he has no problem with it and she has no problem with it - then do you still have a problem? I only ask because in my family, my father is always just Dad, and the daughters are always just his "little girls", regardless of age.

At most I'd suggest to your daughter that if she wants to do that IN HER HOME, when it's empty, then fine. But tell her she needs to figure out a way of making sure she is not walked in on by others.

And as for an 11 year old girl seeing her 16 year old sister, I have to admit I don't know where to go with that one...... I'm not even sure whether it's the 11 or the 16 year-old daughter that you think would find this "uncomfortable"?

panda100

I think this is actually quite a healthy thing for her to be doing. I grew up being told by my mum that nudity and nakedness were bad things and to cover myself up. I didnt wear a bikini until I was 22.Cue now a very dysfunctional realtionship with my body, and a severe akwardness when it comes to nudity,despite it being the most natural thing in the world.

The way I look at it is that teens growing up now are already exposed to breasts and nudity, wether its in a pussycat dolls video or 'Nuts' on the magazine shelf. Girls grow up with a very highly sexualised and fake view of their bodies, that its first and foremost almost an object to turn on men rather than what it actually is,a vehicle for you to live and function.

Sunbathing seems to me to be a very innocent and healthy act. She is obviously not ashamed at taking her top off with her friend and there really is no need to be. Men are allowed to take their tops of why not us? No differnce between a mans chest and a womens chest at the end of the day!

LegacyUser

outspann wrote: »

I'm also somewhat concerned as to why it would be SO wrong if your husband saw his daughter topless? I mean, I'm guessing that he saw her topless for a good number of years, so it's only recently that you believe it's an issue.

OP again here.

I'm a bit puzzled by some of these comments. It should be obvious why there's a difference between a father seeing his daughter topless when she is a little girl and when she nearly has a fully-developed woman's body. I don't know any house in Ireland where it would be "normal" for a 15 year old girl to be topless in front of her father, and if you do know of any let me know! I just don't think its appropriate.

CDfm

Good on you OP - boobs have a sexual function too in our society.

Its great to be so with it and liberated but if faced with the same situation and kids I would do the same.

What you are doing is setting limits on what is appropriate and what is not and teaching her this. Hopefully you had a bit of fun doing so as being a parent is fun.

outspann

If you're suggesting that seeing his daughter is on the same level as him seeing a different (unrelated) 16 year old topless, then I fundamentally disagree with you. Whether she is 2 or 20, his daughter is still his daughter.

Can I ask two questions OP:
- do YOU have an issue with seeing your daughter topless?
- and would you have an issue with her seeing you?

I appreciate that I live in Ireland, but I'm not sure that Irish people are any different to Germans, Spanish, French, Italians etc where this wouldn't even be an issue. Am I missing something here?

I'm hoping that the earlier post was wrong, and that it's not simply because you feel there would be a sexual facet to this. But I'm very surprised that you also feel "uncomfortable" with it being seen either by yourself or your 11 yr old daughter. That surely contains no sexual side, but seems to display a very definite guilt over being comfortable in our own skin.

Terodil

Unregistered wrote: »

OP again here.

I'm a bit puzzled by some of these comments. It should be obvious why there's a difference between a father seeing his daughter topless when she is a little girl and when she nearly has a fully-developed woman's body. I don't know any house in Ireland where it would be "normal" for a 15 year old girl to be topless in front of her father, and if you do know of any let me know! I just don't think its appropriate.

... and you haven't answered a single question that might help me (and some others I think) understand why it's so inappropriate in your view.

I still cannot understand why your common daughter would suddenly stop being a daughter and become what? a temptation? something evil? dirty? to your husband and HER DAD.

CDfm

Terodil wrote: »

I still cannot understand why your common daughter would suddenly stop being a daughter and become what? a temptation? something evil? dirty? to your husband and HER DAD.

I can see what the OP is saying that as a Dad in our culture its embarressing for father and daughter and that just say dad came home with the lads it would have been a shock.

So the OP is saying "hey kid -thats not appropriate here" not anything about the Dad.

Bluefoam

Terodil wrote: »

I still cannot understand why your common daughter would suddenly stop being a daughter and become what? a temptation? something evil? dirty? to your husband and HER DAD.

TBH, I think your response is attempting to be extreme but you are failing drastically....

I agree with the OP, it would be inappropriate for her to be knock around topless in front of her father - not from a sexual point of view, but from a cultural & social point of view it is not normal. It would however be inappropriate for her friend to be topless in a situation where the father might arrive in. This could put him in a very awkward situation & leave him open to accusations - we all know what teenage girls can be like....

LegacyUser

outspann wrote: »

Can I ask two questions OP:
- do YOU have an issue with seeing your daughter topless?
- and would you have an issue with her seeing you?

This is the OP.

I would say "no" to both of these questions. My daughter and I go to the swimming pool together and are comfortable changing in front of each other. But there is a reason why one changing room says MEN and the other says WOMEN. Maybe teenage daughters walking around naked in front of their fathers wouldn't be an issue in someplace like Germany or France, but we live in Ireland. I don't think that in this country it is the norm. I personally know of no family where that is the case.

I grew up with a sister and a brother. We girls had our room and the brother had his room and our parents had their room. We girls were comfortable changing in front of each other and our mother, but not in front of our brother or our father. That is what was "normal" for me and I think 99% of the rest of Ireland as well. A normal Irish home is not some kind of anything goes nudist colony.

Xiney

Alright everybody

The OP didn't come here to have her opinions on who she should feel uncomfortable seeing her daughter topless cross examined.

She came here for suggestions on how to talk to her daughter to make it clear that she does not think this is acceptable behaviour.

Terodil

Bluefoam wrote: »

TBH, I think your response is attempting to be extreme but you are failing drastically....

no, I was serious. And why would I fail? I have absolutely no agenda here.

Bluefoam wrote: »

I agree with the OP, it would be inappropriate for her to be knock around topless in front of her father - not from a sexual point of view, but from a cultural & social point of view it is not normal. It would however be inappropriate for her friend to be topless in a situation where the father might arrive in. This could put him in a very awkward situation & leave him open to accusations - we all know what teenage girls can be like....

Ok, I can follow this, even if I don't agree personally, but whatever I may feel about it being appropriate or not, I do feel that you are representing facts differently here than they were, which is important for the conclusions we draw.

• The OP didn't mention 'knocking around in front of' [various men, as you insinuate]. The OP was describing that both girls were alone at home, and went to take a bit of sun. This is vastly different from parading around in front of random men.
• If it was during the day, and I assume the dad has a job, what are the chances of the dad 'and the lads' arriving home that much earlier than normal?
• You make it seem as if the girl had no shame and actually WANTED to get seen by random men. Facts, however, indicate that the contrary is true. As soon as they learnt of somebody being home, they covered themselves up.

I really feel that this is going way out of proportion. Especially the possibility of accusations that you mention seems to be scaremongering to me, since it was no single random naked girl presenting herself to the dad, but daughter and best friend together. The family would need to be seriously f*cked up if the daughter sided with her friend to harm her dad.


P.S. Sorry Ironmaiden, saw your warning after posting only.

Chucky the tree

I'm not a dad, but if I will be I doubt I'd feel partiulary comfortable in the presence of my topless daughter and definitly not her friend so I find some people's reactions fairly OTT about how it's normal. Just like how when growing up it was awkward walking in on you're mom/dad coming out of the shower/just getting dressed or whatever.

As for the OP it seems you're daughter realises it's not approiate for her to do in when people are in the house so that's why they covered up as soon as they realised someone was home so I wouldn't say anything to her.

Permabear

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bigdaddyliamo

Hi op, I would suggest that you have a quite word on the side with your daughter and say how impressed you were with the fact that she reacted the way she did when she thought someone had came in. That way she will know you know but will not be put in the akward possition of having to explain this innocent action. Just add that she needs to make sure the house is empty first!:)

kelle

I'm wondering if your daughter's friend's parents know she sunbathes topless in other people's gardens? And what would their reactions be if they found out, thinking you allowed it?

I think you need to talk to your daughter about this. But i agree with other posters it was good they did this when they thought the house was empty and reacted appropriately when they heard you.

Toto Wolfcastle

I understand where the OP is coming from when citing 'the norm'. I don't agree that people should follow the norm just because others do, and I certainly don't agree that it is wrong for a dad to see his daughter topless, but I accept that that is how it is in Ireland for many people. Those of us who are willing to see the body as just the body will just have to wait for others to see the same thing.

OP, if you are comfortable enough to change at the swimming pool with your daughter then you should be comfortable enough to bring up this subject with her. Just talk to her. She will probably appreciate it.

Permabear

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username123

Op - seems like everyone is getting themselves in a twist about fathers seeing daughters naked etc....

Personally my take on it is this. You daughter and her pal had the place to themselves and indulged in a bit of topless sunbathing - which they covered up when they heard someone home. So it was never intended to be a public act from your daughters pov. The 11 year old, I wouldnt be a bit concerned, she is going to have her own boobs one of these days anyway.

Your husband, well Im sure he might have been a bit taken aback (as no doubt your daughter would have been too), but ultimately I dont see it as any worse than if he accidently saw your daughter running from the shower to the towel cabinet or something - just one of those accidental happenings like walking in on someone on the loo that happens from time to time in families. No big deal.

I wouldnt make a big deal of it with your daughter. Its just a normal thing for 2 teenage girls to be doing if they think they have the place to themselves.

Meller

Um, I'm sure your fifteen year-old daughter knows herself it would be inappropriate to be topless in front of her father, she doesn't need you to tell her that. With your eleven year old daughter I see very minimal problems there - I'm sure they've probably grown up getting dressed around each other, they're sisters for goodness sake Don't mention to her, it's really not a big deal. Hopefully you're not made uncomfortable by it, seeing as it's your own daughter.

To be honest this sort of thing bothers me in general, men are allowed go topless whenever they want but when it's two girls, in their own back garden when nobody's around, it's terribly inappropriate!
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rubayat

As a father of 2 daughters i feel everyone is missing the point here, I discussed this with my wife and feel the only thing you need to be worried about is who they are tanning there breasts for?

herya

How much of a private place is your garden? I can easily see everything going on in my neighbours gardens from my first floor window. I wouldn't worry about the father or the sister (they've covered themselves quickly when they heard somebody's at home) but it's not exactly reasonable or safe for two teenagers to give free topless shows to random neighbours.

BaubleFreak

rubayat wrote: »

As a father of 2 daughters i feel everyone is missing the point here, I discussed this with my wife and feel the only thing you need to be worried about is who they are tanning there breasts for?

sorry but I had to laugh at that. who they were tanning their breasts for is not even an issue - firstly because people don't need a reason to want to tan, and secondly the only people teenage girls wish to impress with their looks is other teenage girls. they dress, tan, make themselves up etc. to be accepted by their peers.

BaubleFreak

to the op:

there is no issue here. they were sunbathing together in a secluded garden when the house was empty, that says they had no intention of anyone seeing. they covered up as soon as they heard you.

as for her father seeing them, it would have been an awkward moment, nothing more. and i don't think the 11 year old would've given it a second thought.