Lions Vs South Africa 2nd Test pre/during/post match discussion

RHunce

British and Irish Lions: 15 R Kearney (Leinster and Ireland); 14 T Bowe (Ospreys and Ireland), 13 B O'Driscoll (Leinster and Ireland), 12 J Roberts (Cardiff Blues and Wales), 11 L Fitzgerald (Leinster and Ireland); 10 S Jones (Scarlets and Wales), 9 M Phillips (Ospreys and Wales); 1 G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues and Wales), 2 M Rees (Scarlets and Wales), 3 A Jones (Ospreys and Wales), 4 S Shaw (Wasps and England), 5 P O'Connell (Munster and Ireland, capt), 6 T Croft (Leicester and England), 7 D Wallace (Munster and Ireland), 8 J Heaslip (Leinster and Ireland).


Replacements: 16 R Ford (Edinburgh and Scotland), 17 A Sheridan (Sale and England), 18 AW Jones (Ospreys and Wales), 19 M Williams (Cardiff and Wales), 20 H Ellis (Leicester and England), 21 R O'Gara (Munster and Ireland), 22 S Williams (Ospreys and Wales).

South Africa: 15 Frans Steyn, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Adi Jacobs, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Ruan Pienaar, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 John Smit, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.


Replacements: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Deon Carstens, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Danie Rossouw, 20 Heinrich Brussow, 21 Jaque Fourie, 22 Morne Steyn.

Talented Cheetahs flanker Brussow marked his first Test start with the try which ultimately put the game beyond the Lions in the 26-21 victory.
However de Villiers has opted to bring Burger, who will win his 50th cap, straight back into his starting XV despite his lack of match fitness, with Brussow relegated to the bench.
De Villiers has also opted to go for a five-two split on the bench - so with Danie Rossouw retaining his place there is no place for Ricky Januarie.
That means fly-half Ruan Pienaar will act as cover should Fourie du Preez go off injured.

KICK OFF: Saturday 27th 2pm Irish Time
Venue: LOFTUS VERSFELD STADIUM, PRETORIA

No O'Gara at 10, very strange one, i thought he pulled the strings very well on tuesday and when they took him off i thought it was a clear indication that he would be a starter this saturday. he'll be like an absolute dog

good to see the front row being beefed up though they really need to front up to the challenge, SA were all over them last week and i think Jenkins, Rees and Jones are the men to stand up and be counted. No Hayes on the bench though i thought they might have him there in case the scrum isn't going well to bring on for impact

the back three are all irish and i they no each other inside out. i'd expect kearny and the two lads to be making a lot of plays from the back

the strenght in midfield is a good sign with o driscoll and roberts and i think a lot of the attacks will be coming from there.

phillips would have been my first choice scrum half, very physical and a great reader of the game, i thought jones wasnt great the last day but he has something to prove and might shine through.

the locks are two big men and i expect shaw to prove something this test and be o connells partner for the next. paul o connell always reliable and we need a big game from his this weekend.

the back row is full of agility and i would like to see croft and wallace with a lot of ball in hand around the fringes of the ruck. heaslip being the battering ram that he is i'd say we can expect a lot of ball in his hands for the pick and drives

the weather in pretoria is supposed to be sunny and dry so should make for a great running game

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I'm suprised Byrne and Hayes weren't on the bench...

GymJim

Bryn wrote: »

I'm suprised Byrne and Hayes weren't on the bench...

Byrne is still injured isn't he and Sheridan is fit so Hayes was always going to be behind him benchwise.

In the front row we need a sub who can play loosehead as Jenkins can play on both sides. If Sheridan was unfit we'd have had Payne (despite his being sh*te) on the bench to cover loosehead.

The only way Hayes would be on the bench was if Jones wasn't fit for the match.

thomond2006

Thomond's Match Preview


Well it is do or die in Pretoria. The reputations of many NH players in the Southern Hemisphere rests on the result on Saturday.

The Lions travel to Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria, the heartbeat of Transvaal rugby. In the face of the merciless High Veldt, the Lions must save the series.

While the 1st test was a disappointing defeat for the Lions, it displayed that the Springbok team is human. The centre partnership of Jacobs and De Villiers was cut to pieces by the power, class and tenacity of Jamie Roberts and Brian O'Driscoll. Withstanding the unforgivable finishing of Ugo Monye, the Lion's backline was a cut above its South African counterparts.

The South Africans spent the match kicking the leather out the ball with Bryan Habana and JP Pietersen mere spectators. This week they will be faced with the powerful boots of Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney and the innate ability and pace of Tommy Bowe.

Like any other match, leadership is vital. Paul O' Connell must lead from the front and cross the gain line each time with ball in hand. He must stand up and be counted or the series is lost. He must be tactically astute and make the right decisions. These decisions will undoubtedly decide the fate of the series. POC must prove his quality.

The Lions cannot start so poorly again. It proved to be their undoing. The introduction of Simon Shaw should provide the extra "Umph" they need at the scrum and maul, which was nothing short of an embarrassment last week.

The Lions have the talent to win this match, no doubt about it. So if I was Ian McGeechan, I'd be screaming "OUT WITH IT!!" before the game. This team is too good to play second fiddle to the Springboks again.


COME ON THE LIONS!!

RHunce

thomond2006 wrote: »

This week they will be faced with the powerful boots of Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney and the innate ability and pace of Tommy Bowe.

luke fitz is a very poor kicker of the ball though isnt he?

thomond2006

RHunce wrote: »

luke fitz is a very poor kicker of the ball though isnt he?

Since when? He is a natural fullback and has said so himself.

Riskymove

thomond2006 wrote: »

Thomond's Match Preview


Well it is do or die in Pretoria. The reputations of many NH players in the Southern Hemisphere rests on the result on Saturday.

disagree...on the perfromance, yes...result no

The Lions cannot start so poorly again. It proved to be their undoing. The introduction of Simon Shaw should provid the extra "Umph" they need at the scrum and maul, which was nothing short of an embarrassment last week.

agree strongly

Riskymove

thomond2006 wrote: »

Since when? He is a natural fullback and has said so himself.

certainly media recently have not been impressed with his defensive kicking;

crisco10

Riskymove wrote: »

certainly media recently have not been impressed with his defensive kicking;

And this has surprised me no end. I didnt see the Southern Kings game where apparently he mis placed a few but as a Leinster STH I have seen him unleash a lot of stunning spirals in defensive areas of the pitch. I am not sure of the quality of his Garryowens though now I think about it but touch finders and long kicks into space are certainly not a weakness in his game.

Nilther

Fitzgerald's kicking is quite powerful but terribly inconsistent. When he gets them right they can be better than Kearney's.

HelloJellyFish

Anybody into handicap betting on the game, any ideas on how it will pan out???

ALH-06

Good post thomond.

By and large, I'm happy with the changes - there isn't one I disagree with, although I'm still 50:50 with Williams v Fitz. Apart from trying too hard to impress, Williams has done little wrong and his finishing remains unquestionable. He's got a massive experience advantage over Fitz which becomes immensely important in those final few yards (as Monye demonstrated so articulately last week). I would also still much prefer Byrne at 15 than Kearney - pity about the formers' injury. I still have my reservations about Super Rob - he certainly doesn't offer as much in attack as the Welshman and question marks do still hang over his defence. I'll cross my fingers.

Very hard luck for DOC to be dropped from the 22. I really rate Wyn Jones but Shaw is a limited player (and nearly 37 at that). I just hope this isn't Wasps bias on behalf of Geech, Edwards & even Gatland... The man also has a reputation for giving away silly penalties at rucktime - an area of the game the Lions don't seem to need any more imput in... But hopefully his added physicality, along with the beef of the Welsh front row, will shore up the pack in the scrum and the maul. Hopefully...

Stev_o

We are f*cked if either BOD or Roberts gets injured. It'll end up Fitz having to move to centre with Williams on the wing and that's just a dire team to end up if a injury happens.

ALH-06

Stev_o wrote: »

We are f*cked if either BOD or Roberts gets injured. It'll end up Fitz having to move to centre with Williams on the wing and that's just a dire team to end up if a injury happens.

Bowe can play centre as well. Wouldn't be preferable obviously but I don't think it'd be a disaster. Bowe, Fitz, Williams all top quality players.

Jackz

It's funny that we won a forwards dominated six nations, but our backs dominate the lions selection. Flannery has been badly missed.

Stealdo

Stev_o wrote: »

We are f*cked if either BOD or Roberts gets injured. It'll end up Fitz having to move to centre with Williams on the wing and that's just a dire team to end up if a injury happens.

I'd move Bowe in quicker than Fitz but still not great. That's why Williams is not a player I would ever have on the bench. If Hook was 21 then maybe, but with ROG only covering 10 (not his fault) you need a little versatility on the bench...especially when the cover isn't there on the field.

Stealdo

Jackz wrote: »

It's funny that we won a forwards dominated six nations, but our backs dominate the lions selection. Flannery has been badly missed.

Flannery and Ferris are both huge losses. The fact that Rory Best will be sunning himself while this game is played is a shocker at this stage. Ross Ford has been a big let down for me. We all knew what Mears' and Rees' limitations were before they went out, but I thought Ford would step up to it.

I would never have picked it before the tour, but Irish players at 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 14 and 15 wasn't too far away from reality.

Stev_o

Stealdo wrote: »

I'd move Bowe in quicker than Fitz but still not great. That's why Williams is not a player I would ever have on the bench. If Hook was 21 then maybe, but with ROG only covering 10 (not his fault) you need a little versatility on the bench...especially when the cover isn't there on the field.

Bowe's never played 13 at international level (HC aswell?) or on the tour. Fitz has been used at 12 indicating that's what the coaching staff see as a back up role for him. Still the problem that if Roberts got injured we'd lack a 12 unless they decide to go a bit crazy and have ROG and Jones playing 10 and 12.

Riskymove

Stev_o wrote: »

Bowe's never played 13 at international level (HC aswell?) or on the tour. Fitz has been used at 12 indicating that's what the coaching staff see as a back up role for him. Still the problem that if Roberts got injured we'd lack a 12 unless they decide to go a bit crazy and have ROG and Jones playing 10 and 12.

last week when BOD went down injured it was O'Gara warming up to come on; I presume Jones moving to centre

Stealdo

Riskymove wrote: »

last week when BOD went down injured it was O'Gara warming up to come on; I presume Jones moving to centre

Kearney was already on for Byrne though so there was no choice of who would come on - who knows what they would have done positionally though. Putting Williams on the bench has created the same problem from the start this week.

Stealdo

Stev_o wrote: »

Bowe's never played 13 at international level (HC aswell?) or on the tour. Fitz has been used at 12 indicating that's what the coaching staff see as a back up role for him. Still the problem that if Roberts got injured we'd lack a 12 unless they decide to go a bit crazy and have ROG and Jones playing 10 and 12.

True - it's a matter of choice though - with everything that's gone till now I'd go with Bowe - but based on what the mgt has done to this point you're probably right that they'd see Fitz as a centre more so.

crisco10

Riskymove wrote: »

last week when BOD went down injured it was O'Gara warming up to come on; I presume Jones moving to centre

That was with Kearney already having come on though. If he hadn't come on already, I reckon Rob would have come on and Bowe to centre. I suppose it debunks the idea Phillips would be second choice 12.

EDit: Darn. beaten to it.

Riskymove

crisco10 wrote: »

That was with Kearney already having come on though. If he hadn't come on already, I reckon Rob would have come on and Bowe to centre. I suppose it debunks the idea Phillips would be second choice 12.

EDit: Darn. beaten to it.

well what about if a centre gets injured after williams came on?

then I presume its ROG again...hopefully not ellis

crisco10

Riskymove wrote: »

well what about if a centre gets injured after williams came on?

then I presume its ROG again...hopefully not ellis

Last test would indicate its ROG. Phillips did play there earlier in the tour. So ellis to 9, phillips to 12. But thats just pants. To be fair, I'm exactly not a fan of either option!

Riskymove

crisco10 wrote: »

Last test would indicate its ROG. Phillips did play there earlier in the tour. So ellis to 9, phillips to 12. But thats just pants. To be fair, I'm exactly not a fan of either option!

with the ROG plan at least you still have solid scrum half and out half

RHunce

how about hook in the centre if one of the boys were to get injured?

Chucky the tree

I'd much rather go with Martin Williams or Wallace at 12 if Roberts was injuried. At least they would create similiar threat in being able to break tackles and both are faster then Jones.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

GymJim wrote: »

Byrne is still injured isn't he and Sheridan is fit so Hayes was always going to be behind him benchwise.

You're right, Byrne is still injured. But when I had made that post earlier I had just heard on the radio news that he was fit just not picked

RHunce

Does anyone think that the lions can win it?

Amabokke

RHunce wrote: »

Does anyone think that the lions can win it?

No.

Trojan

Course they can win it. I'd call it marginally in Boks favour but love to stick it to them

thomond2006

Amabokke wrote: »

No.

There is an unbiased answer.

stephen_n

RHunce wrote: »

. No Hayes on the bench though i thought they might have him there in case the scrum isn't going well to bring on for impact

Find this a strange comment when it is generally accepted that scrummaging is by far and away the weakest part of Hayes game.

Stealdo

stephen_n wrote: »

Find this a strange comment when it is generally accepted that scrummaging is by far and away the weakest part of Hayes game.

Hayes is a pretty decent neutralising scrummager in my opinion. He won't ever go to town on his opposite number and be really destructive, but he's a good man to lock the scrum down and hold his own. Would have done ok last week. I disagree with the idea of him being on the bench in general, but he's the only other fit tight head that isn't Vickery so....

Stev_o

RHunce wrote: »

Does anyone think that the lions can win it?

Honestly i think no, if we played at Loftus first and then Durban second id say yes but the attitude will be a punch to their stomach and may take the legs away from them.

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Honestly i think no, if we played at Loftus first and then Durban second id say yes but the attitude will be a punch to their stomach and may take the legs away from them.

I'd say it's 60:40 in favour of the Boks...

thomond2006

Wouldn't be ironic if Shane O Mac came on and scored the winning try?

:D:D:D

The Welsh would never let it go.

Leslie91

RHunce wrote: »

Does anyone think that the lions can win it?

Their chances are v slim. I'm still hopeful though. That hope better not be misplaced, they have to at least put up a fight. If they get hammered then it'll be a disaster.

I'll never forget when France beat NZ in the World Cup when they were 10/1 (yes 10 to 1) to win.

RadioGaGa

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wouldn't be ironic if Shane O Mac came on and scored the winning try?

:D:D:D

The Welsh would never let it go.

Love the wrestling reference. While Williams has had a horrible tour just one flash of brilliance coming off the bench would make me forget. As for a prediction, Boks to win narrowly.

the immortals

RHunce wrote: »

Does anyone think that the lions can win it?

yes we can!

thomond2006

the immortals wrote: »

yes we can!

Can POC fix it, yes he can!

Hippo

Yes I think we can, but I'd be amazed if POC on current form proves to be the difference between the teams!

razorblunt

I just hope the team talks in the last few days mean that the Lions will be over psyched and leave everything behind in the dressing room!

SlickRic

can i unashamedly say...

i'm f*cking bricking it.

WeeBushy

Stealdo wrote: »

Hayes is a pretty decent neutralising scrummager in my opinion. He won't ever go to town on his opposite number and be really destructive, but he's a good man to lock the scrum down and hold his own. Would have done ok last week. I disagree with the idea of him being on the bench in general, but he's the only other fit tight head that isn't Vickery so....

Did you not see what Healy did to him all last season? If he can destroy Hayes in the scrum, just think what the beast would do to him...

Jackz

Come on lions!!!

mikeruurds

C'mon the Boks!!

thomond2006

Come on lads, these wonderful matches only take place every four years, let's just enjoy them.

chupacabra

Whenever i hear Peter De Villiers speak. I cant help shake the idea that he has a pineapple shoved up his árse. Anyone else concur with that?

Stev_o

chupacabra wrote: »

Whenever i hear Peter De Villiers speak. I cant help shake the idea that he has a pineapple shoved up his árse. Anyone else concur with that?

Sounds like a 5 year old, his voice is just.......so unmanly

chupacabra

I have to say i also never get tired of watching that Intro to sky sports Lions program. A damn sight better than the crap one RTE throw on for our international games.