stepping it up a gear

frobisher

ICN wrote: »

Vicks & Whistle - Of course.. That Pub on the M25.

Hahahahah.... I remember walking into Sides back in D'day and smelling the vicks. Good times....

seannash

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's not what I said.

Have you tried any of what I have said?

I've offered practical improvements to the problems you've described.

Have you tried better sounding equipment?

well from what i can tell my equipment is pretty good sounding.
i was using genelecs before and having this problem(i think there a better than average monitor).

like i said i dont think its my monitors because i know of a few people who use them and are making great sounding stuff.so if they can do it i should be able to do it also.

as of right now i cant rush out and buy better sounding equipment so even if i did take your advice i couldnt impliment it unfortunately,so for my immediate improvement telling me to buy new gear isnt a good option.
regardless of whether your right or wrong.:)

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

well from what i can tell

That's what I'm saying !

I take your point regarding changing equipment though - if you can't try stuff you can't.

My point is, just be aware of the things that will allow you to do stuff easier and hopefully better in the search for improvement.

Don't be afraid of a bit of science in that search .

Best of Luck !

seannash

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's what I'm saying !

I take your point regarding changing equipment though - if you can't try stuff you can't.

My point is, just be aware of the things that will allow you to do stuff easier and hopefully better in the search for improvement.

Don't be afraid of a bit of science in that search .

Best of Luck !

i hear ya.
obviously if i had the option of better monitors,better room,hardware synths,better plug ins etc id take it.

but my point is that theres producer out there with inferior setups to mine making fantastic sounding stuff.so take the equipment out of the equation for now and it must be down to technique.

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

i hear ya.
obviously if i had the option of better monitors,better room,hardware synths,better plug ins etc id take it.

but my point is that theres producer out there with inferior setups to mine making fantastic sounding stuff.so take the equipment out of the equation for now and it must be down to technique.

Aye - great Music has been made on below stellar gear since time began.

I'm just talking about making things easier.

I presume you leave the HS and Gens up together, switching between both?

splitrmx

Just a few points:

1) I don't think gear talk should be discouraged in the dance music production area, even if a lot of people are using laptops and software it's still valid.

2) The Genelec monitors are great. Monolake has produced all his stuff using a pair of 8040s. Donnacha Costello uses a pair of 8030s, Dubplates and Mastering in Germany use a pair of 8040s (amongst lots of other things). If they're good enough for them they're good enough for us!

3) As for the NS10 recommendation, if I remember correctly they're not in production any more?

seannash

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Aye - great Music has been made on below stellar gear since time began.

I'm just talking about making things easier.

I presume you leave the HS and Gens up together, switching between both?

nope im traveming at the moment so im only using the hs50s.the genelecs are back in the emerald isle:D

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

nope im traveming at the moment so im only using the hs50s.the genelecs are back in the emerald isle:D

Ah, that's a pity.
I find that switching between speakers is good for 'resetting' the head mid mix.

PaulBrewer

splitrmx wrote: »

Just a few points:

1) I don't think gear talk should be discouraged in the dance music production area, even if a lot of people are using laptops and software it's still valid.

2) The Genelec monitors are great. Monolake has produced all his stuff using a pair of 8040s. Donnacha Costello uses a pair of 8030s, Dubplates and Mastering in Germany use a pair of 8040s (amongst lots of other things). If they're good enough for them they're good enough for us!

3) As for the NS10 recommendation, if I remember correctly they're not in production any more?

1. Cheers !

2. I often use 8050s myself ! They are good speakers.
However the scientific limitations of Ported designs are what I was talking about. Gens/HS50 where used as an example as Sean has been using them.

3. NS10s are indeed well out of production (2000 I think).
Again it was the superior impulse response I was referring to as a product of the sealed box design. The NS10s were only mentioned as I've recently rebuilt a set.

Neurojazz

So your'e talking about 1500 quid a pair? for a marginal improvement on a mix - this is MP forum stuff guys... seriously.

splitrmx

Neurojazz wrote: »

So your'e talking about 1500 quid a pair? for a marginal improvement on a mix - this is MP forum stuff guys... seriously.

Is this the dance music production forum or the budget dance music production forum?

Neurojazz

As per the 'purpose of this forum' sticky - it's aimed at the mass users, not the top end users.

splitrmx

I wouldn't consider 1500 Euro on a pair of studio monitors "top end". The laptops people are running Logic on probably cost the same! Any opinions from anybody else?

Neurojazz

I think people are missing the point - you guys are pretty much the knowledge base for new users arriving at the forum.

Most people will probably be using small amounts of software or hardware and not able to even dream about buying speakers that cost that much.

If you want a gear v gear thread then really take it too MP as there are many more people over there with experience and empirical/practical advice.

woodsdenis

Neurojazz wrote: »

As per the 'purpose of this forum' sticky - it's aimed at the mass users, not the top end users.

First time post on this side of the board. Good posts and very informative stuff.

I would agree with you about not getting into high end stuff per se but this is very subjective. A Macbook pro and a Virus TI which costs thousands are discussed
here as tools of the trade. Most users on this forum, or on the any for that matter, would not have these. Definitely high end I think, but surely should be discussed as they are used in the making of dance music.

This is not intended as a debate against high end v low end as I agree it doesn't matter, but is it true to say that dance music is solely created on lo end gear? My old sparring partner jtsuited has a pretty impressive setup.

Your the Mod and have to draw a line as you see fit

My 2 cents:D

Neurojazz

Yep virus is top end - but i'm not pushing it as the solution - you'd find more posts i make contain references about sylenth (1 tenth the cost) and would run on a scabby dog.

A little 1.1ghtz centrino would run Reason for example - and probably older macbooks (though i'm no mac expert, so you'd have to ask the mac guys what a budget could get you for example.)

splitrmx

Neurojazz wrote: »

If you want a gear v gear thread then really take it too MP as there are many more people over there with experience and empirical/practical advice.

What about gear vs. gear discussions in the context of purely dance music production?

Neurojazz

splitrmx wrote: »

What about gear vs. gear discussions in the context of purely dance music production?

We were trying too, i believe paul even mentioned clocking at one point in regards to quality - which is relevant if your'e at the extreme high end of things and out of context with the forum purpose.

jtsuited

woodsdenis wrote: »

My old sparring partner jtsuited has a pretty impressive setup.
D

really? I have a very very low end setup compared to what I grew up on. Just some 8030's, hs50's, a duet, and everything else is ITB.

Basically this thread started with some constructive advice and soon turned into discussion of clocking (wtf?) and the impulse response waterfall of the ns10's (which by the way has been repeated so many times by so many people in the audio world that it's becoming banal at this stage).

I can guarantee I could make better sounding productions with sh1tty hs50's and Logic's built in synths and plugins than many many many people I know who spend a fortune on high end gear. Cocky I know but if any of the high enders want to take me up on the challenge they are welcome to.

Honest to god, as soon as clocking is mentioned in relation to DAC (it's maybe excusable when it comes to ADC), people are genuinely taking the piss. Esoteric nonsense does not even begin to describe it.

Some people want it to be all about the gear that determines the quality of your music (ironic that they're bread and butter is selling gear) but it's just not the case. At the end of the day, it's 99% skill, 0.99% luck and 0.01% gear.
End of story. I've used so much software and hardware over the years in so many different contexts and what I've found to be good for me, others who are brilliant hate them. And vice versa, there is stuff I think is woeful but some of my favourite producers get phenomenal results out of them.

It's the ultimate laziness to think that 'if i had this gear, i could make the records I really want to make'. And a lot of people fall into the trap (spurred along by audio salesmen). With software these days, if you can't get the results you want out of a computer, you really need to reassess how you're going about things.

A lot of people won't like to admit it, but it is the truth.

splitrmx

jtsuited wrote: »

With software these days, if you can't get the results you want out of a computer, you really need to reassess how you're going about things.

While I would agree with the exclusion of clocking discussion I would 100% disagree with the above statement. Aphex Twin's records wouldn't sound the same if he did them only using software. There's a reason many of the world's best productions use certain hardware, it's because they want to get a certain sound. Software can currently emulate a lot of and get close to perfect in some areas but not close in others.

jtsuited

splitrmx wrote: »

While I would agree with the exclusion of clocking discussion I would 100% disagree with the above statement. Aphex Twin's records wouldn't sound the same if he did them only using software. There's a reason many of the world's best productions use certain hardware, it's because they want to get a certain sound. Software can currently emulate a lot of and get close to perfect in some areas but not close in others.

ah hold on, Aphex's records were made in days where software was simply not an option. You could definitely come close to his sound these days in software.

I would agree with what you are saying if we were talking 3-4 years ago, but things have come on in leaps and bounds since then.

woodsdenis

jtsuited wrote: »

really? I have a very very low end setup compared to what I grew up on. Just some 8030's, hs50's, a duet, and everything else is ITB.

As I said in my post its subjective . Your setup to some people is hi end and to others not. I totally agree about gear not being the important factor in making music at all, but I think it is ok to be aware of the options that are out there. Is clocking important ? at some point it is. Is it relevant to this forum, probably not.

Is a Virus TI the best synth out there or is Sylenth just as good. Now thats worth discussing isn't it. By the way Neuro it wont run on my PPC G5:(
Bummer.

Either way its your forum to admin how you like.

JT its good to see you havn't lost your enthusiasm and forthright debating style

Neurojazz

I actually have a world record for ****est gear, most money made

Neurojazz

woodsdenis wrote: »

As I said in my post its subjective . Your setup to some people is hi end and to others not. I totally agree about gear not being the important factor in making music at all, but I think it is ok to be aware of the options that are out there. Is clocking important ? at some point it is. Is it relevant to this forum, probably not.

Is a Virus TI the best synth out there or is Sylenth just as good. Now thats worth discussing isn't it. By the way Neuro it wont run on my PPC G5:(
Bummer.

Either way its your forum to admin how you like.

JT its good to see you havn't lost your enthusiasm and forthright debating style

Sylenth not running? - have you checked recently? - if you have and you get some sort of issue/error report then either goto lennar and ask about it or give me a PM and i'll get it fixed (hopefully)

woodsdenis

Neurojazz wrote: »

Sylenth not running? - have you checked recently? - if you have and you get some sort of issue/error report then either goto lennar and ask about it or give me a PM and i'll get it fixed (hopefully)

MAC Intel only no PPC:mad:

Neurojazz

woodsdenis wrote: »

MAC Intel only no PPC:mad:

That's crap, have to see what the PPC equivalent is from the other Mac users here.

jtsuited

woodsdenis wrote: »

JT its good to see you havn't lost your enthusiasm and forthright debating style

haha. actually imo the Virus is much much much better than sylenth. I have sylenth and I actually think it sucks. Very very very cold sounding to me. But everytime I say something like that, some producer comes out with a whopper track with a whopper bassline that it transpires was done with whatever synth/softsynth I don't like.

Which is sort of my point. Use what works for you, and keep working on it.

woodsdenis

jtsuited wrote: »

haha. actually imo the Virus is much much much better than sylenth. I have sylenth and I actually think it sucks. Very very very cold sounding to me. But everytime I say something like that, some producer comes out with a whopper track with a whopper bassline that it transpires was done with whatever synth/softsynth I don't like.

Which is sort of my point. Use what works for you, and keep working on it.

Ha Ha its always the way isn't it. I have the Virus Indigo TDM which I am guessing is equivalent to a Virus B ? and 80% of the time it wins out over anything else I have.

woodsdenis

Neurojazz wrote: »

That's crap, have to see what the PPC equivalent is from the other Mac users here.

This is the first time I have seen Intel only for a VI. PPC is unfortunately getting to the end of its life. I wont upgrade until my computer dies though, too expensive with TDM cards etc

splitrmx

jtsuited wrote: »

ah hold on, Aphex's records were made in days where software was simply not an option. You could definitely come close to his sound these days in software.

His early ones were, his most recent ones were released two years ago.

I would agree with what you are saying if we were talking 3-4 years ago, but things have come on in leaps and bounds since then.

What leaps and bounds in software have there been since 2005/6?