Growing up with only men? (I'm female).

LegacyUser

I'm 40 and have probably had that old 'life begins at 40' depression thing going on this year, and there's something that has always, always bothered me.

I grew up with men. No women. My mam died when I was 2, my dad raised me and my 2 brothers. His mother had died as had my maternal grandmother. My mum was an only child and dad had 4 brothers. So not a woman in sight except me.

So I'm now married (to a man ;-) who has 1 brother and his mum died 4yrs ago. I tend to have a lot of male tendencies, so I've been told. I have alot of male attitudes towards things if that's making sense and really don't get, and never got, that 'girly' thing. This was brought home to me at the weekend when myself and my female friend (yes, I have female friends!) went away for the weekend and there she was, taking her underwear out of her suitcase for all to see and I was trying to hide mine and discreetly put it in a drawer. It was all new and beautiful and my friend commented about the way I was hiding it coz she wanted to see it (it was very expensive!) and it occured to me that I've spent most of my life hiding my underwear from men! (am I sounding insane here?). Meanwhile, there she was, not a bother on her walking around in her bra and there I am, covering up to my neck, not because I have body issues, but because I've always 'hidden' girly stuff from men.

These traits have continued. I am not a tomboy per se. I love being a woman. I have one son and god was I delighted that he was a boy. I was genuinely,honestly terrified that he would be a girl and I wouldn't know how to raise her! I'm very very comfortable being a mother to a boy and actually put off having another child in case it was a girl.

So here I am, at 40, trying to figure out how to be a woman! I've done the whole 'girly' weekends away in the hope that I'd love it, but it was like pulling teeth watching my friends relax getting massages and genuinely enjoying getting their nails painted etc. I wear femine clothes but don't feel one bit comfortable in them. I wear make up but very often, am conscious that I'm wearing it.

So am I normal? Have I been too influenced by my upbringing? Do other women feel like this who were surrounded by men in their youth? Can I change? Can I 'become' a woman??

Big Knox

Unregistered wrote: »

So am I normal? Have I been too influenced by my upbringing? Do other women feel like this who were surrounded by men in their youth? Can I change? Can I 'become' a woman??

You are a woman, you always have been. Yes you may have certain male tendencies, but alot of men have female tendencies too.

All shapes and sizes OP, accept who you are and be happy about it there is absolutely nothing wrong with you and the sooner you accept that the happier you will be.

Also you would be fine raising a daughter, just because it seems like it's outside your comfort zone doesen't mean you should be scared of it. Like everything you will learn as you go. Everything doesen't come natural!!

LegacyUser

mmmmmmmmmmm I dunno about that (raising a girl!). I'm not kidding when I tell you that I prayed every single day of my pregnancy for a boy. It's not that I don't like girls, it's I just imagine I'd raise her the same way as I was raised - short hair all my life, not a plait or a pink ribbon in sight!

I'm not saying thats wrong and my dad is wonderful and did a truly amazing job raising us alone...but it's something that creeps up on me every so often.

Like I just don't like shopping. Absolutely hate it. Never have liked it. Even as a teenager or in my 20's, with money in my pocket, the very last thing I ever wanted to do was go shopping for girly stuff. My husband thinks I'm the perfect wife tho!

I would just like to enjoy female stuff though. It was much easier in my 20's because I had a huge circle of friends, most of whom were male and it wasn't frowned upon at all that I palled mostly with the boys.
Harder at 40 though and now married, with all your friends looking at you (like you're mental) because you chat more to their hubby than you do to them! I would honestly LIKE to like female things...would it just take some practice??

sachamama

i've never been comfortable around women because my mother was not a good influence on me. She set the scene for a deep lack of trust between me and other women!

i'm now 38 and only in the last 2/3 years ive started making close women friends. i still feel more comfortable in the company of men but i have discovered my own femininity. And i of course realise that not all women are made in the image of my mother. The hardest piece for me was realising that I was not made in the image of my mother. once i got over that, the rest naturally followed

its funny but once i bought a pair of shoes that were "pretty shoes" and felt comfortable in them, i started buying skirts... it just blossomed from there. I grew slowly into a more feminine me, but underneath the clothes im the same person i always was.

i guess what im trying to say is that being the natural person that you are is much healthier than being someone you think you should be. and that small things, like finding a pair of pretty shoes you like, can make a big difference. so take it small, the devil as they say, is in the detail!

Nevyn

I'm not a girlie girl either, never have been and I am rearing a daughter and it's strange.
Nowt to do with me not having a Mam or 3 sisters it's just a different mind set, I am how I am, but she is how she is.

She likes pink and purple, she's 9 shortly and she actually likes it rather then them being colours she feels she has to like cos she's a girl.

I don't do the girly shopping stuff, we do by clothes, I do style her hair and spend time brushing it for her I make a point in making sure that she knows she can be the type of girl/woman she wants to be and not what the media and the world expects her to be.

Every child has thier own personality, it could be that you are not girlie due to not your upbringing but how you are cos trust me girlieness will out, I see it in my daughter every day.

Don't be worried about having a baby girl and not being able to connnect with her,
you wil and you will love and care for her and she will feel it as for the suffering the pink and purple I do it cos I love her. I don't buy her the princess stuff family members do
and as for things she likes doing and I like doing we have found middle ground and we both comprimise.

CDfm

Im a guy with a daughter and do the whole shopping thing, even did the puberty and sex talks.

You will be grand

LegacyUser

funny..reading your replies I feel like I've actually been trying to conform to what society believes a woman should be? I never really thought of it like that..
I am comfortable in my own skin (after some counselling!) but lavendar baths? Hate them. Candles? Hate them. Pink? Hate it. Manicures? I'd rather watch paint dry.

I am who I am, I know that but like I said, as I've gotten older, I'm finding it more difficult to BE that person. Even today the schoolyard was surrounded by 'yummy mummies' in their pink or lemon low cut tops. I've never been a yummy mummy (nor would I want to be!) but would love to WANT to dress like that. Like I looked at them and thought they looked well and wondered why I didn't ever buy a simple lemon vest top to go with my jeans? You know, it's 'girlie'. I was wearing a plain white t-shirt. Nothing wrong with that but it's like other women seem to have an eye for these things that I don't...and I'd love to..maybe it's fashion that's actually my problem???

LegacyUser

Why do you want to change? You sound fine as you are. So what if you don't like 'girly' things, they are just not for everyone. You say you have osme female friends so it's not like you find it impossible to relate to women.

If you feel like you might enjoy 'female' things then give something a go for while but don't force yourself to do things you don't want just because you feel like you should.

Yes it sounds like your upbringing has probably had an effect on you, everyone's upbringing has an effect on them but it sounds like you have turned out well and were raised well. I have always felt like there's to much distinction between male and female things anyway, the truth is we're not that different.

If you had a girl, why can't you raise them just like you raise you son and allow her to become interested in female things at her own pace if you wants to. Maybe she'll turn out with some stereotypical male tenancies like you, or maybe she'll become more interested in girly things through her friends etc. She doesn't have to have ribbons and plaits and all of that as long as she's well looked after and loved.

I think you could probably find women who weren't brought up exclusively by men who have masculine characteristics like you, as long as your happy, it doesn't matter.

CDfm

You will connect alright - just think -her first football;);)

Beruthiel

OP I was a tomboy from the getgo.
I've never gotten the 'girly' stuff, whatever that is exactly.
What I don't get is why you think you're missing something.
You are who you are, if you are comfortable with that, why are you looking to change into something you are not?

herya

Unregistered wrote: »

I am comfortable in my own skin (after some counselling!) but lavendar baths? Hate them. Candles? Hate them. Pink? Hate it. Manicures? I'd rather watch paint dry.

Look I grew up with my mother 2 sisters and female friends and I don't like these things either, all this fluffy pinky girly stuff and spa culture - at the same time I'm attractive and I like good design so it's not one or the other.

You have a right not to like them, don't beat yourself up about it and don't try to blame your upbringing, you're just fine and you'll be a great mother to a girl if it happens one day!

Nevyn

Unregistered wrote: »

funny..reading your replies I feel like I've actually been trying to conform to what society believes a woman should be? I never really thought of it like that..

Unregistered wrote: »

I am who I am, I know that but like I said, as I've gotten older, I'm finding it more difficult to BE that person. Even today the schoolyard was surrounded by 'yummy mummies' in their pink or lemon low cut tops. I've never been a yummy mummy (nor would I want to be!) but would love to WANT to dress like that. Like I looked at them and thought they looked well and wondered why I didn't ever buy a simple lemon vest top to go with my jeans? You know, it's 'girlie'. I was wearing a plain white t-shirt. Nothing wrong with that but it's like other women seem to have an eye for these things that I don't...and I'd love to..maybe it's fashion that's actually my problem???

ok maybe you need to discover your own sense of style, having not been into fashion or girlie dressing up means you have it seems been choosing function over form or style when it comes to clothes I know I can be the same but you can learn to develop your own sense of style and still wear clothes you feel comfortable in.

Beruthiel wrote: »

You are who you are, if you are comfortable with that, why are you looking to change into something you are not?

I think maybe the op is concerned about what type role model she may be for a daughter and how her daughter may miss out or feel left out due to her not being a girlie girl and tbh it is my daughter's own interests which has me looking at things slight differently and discovering I do actually notice more and know more about fashion then I thought albeit from a arts/historical/antro point of view and having more of a critical eye then I expected.

Morgase

Beruthiel wrote: »

OP I was a tomboy from the getgo.
I've never gotten the 'girly' stuff, whatever that is exactly.
What I don't get is why you think you're missing something.
You are who you are, if you are comfortable with that, why are you looking to change into something you are not?

+1

Sure didn't you say your husband thinks you're perfect? I'll bet you two get on much better than a couple where the woman spends loads of money on clothes and makeup and the husband doesn't understand it.

You're certainly normal, OP. Look at the amount of women (including myself) who are replying to this saying we're tomboyish too!

tbh

are you happy as you are OP?

LegacyUser

LOL!

I'm not concerned about how I would bring up a daughter really - sure I haven't even got one so I'm not letting that occupy my mind!!

I dunno...I'm not 'worrying' about this and I don't want to change necessarily..it's just something that crops up for me occassionally...I think I always assumed that once I became a mother, my 'feminity' would just automatically come out! Hasn't happened...I think I'm very aware that I grew up with men and really want my son to see both sides of life. I don't know how a mother should 'behave', nor a sister, nor a grandmother - I do know that women tend to have a softer side to them than men...perhaps I've built up an illusion of how women should 'be' when in fact, I'm being a perfectly good woman myself. But I don't feel like I'm a good female role model to my son? There...I've said it...I don't think I know how to be a mother because I didn't have one.....so perhaps my real issue is not about being a woman, but being a mother?


Just writing stuff down is really helping though - thanks guys.

Nevyn

Well what is a mother?
Why do you think your not doing it right?
Are you affectionate with your son?
Do you hug him and wipe away his tears when he falls?
You can be strong and strict and fair but still love and comfort your kids with out being soft and giving in to him.

There are many different types of feminity, a lot more then what is protrayed in the media.

LegacyUser

Yes, I do all of those things -he's not short of cuddles!

I dunno, I'm all confused now!

Oh The Humanity

Dont worry about it.

Girlyness = cringe. It glorifies vanity and vacuousness imho.

Shopping, pinkness, fairies, butterflies, soap operas, chick flicks, not being able to drive or park and being proud of it, spending 10 hours getting ready, dresses, nails, celeb mags, high heels, r&b, obsession with jewellery and weddings, thinking spa breaks are great, talking about relationships, etc etc

Its mind numbing! I'd rather gouge my eyes out.

You're better than that! Dont feel bad, be glad!!

Darthhoob

you sound just like me OP (except i'd love a daughter...after 2 boys). i had my mum growing up, but she wasn't very girly, i was very boyish as a kid and even though i'm womanly now...i'm still not the least bit girly i HATE shopping, i HATE shoes! i never liked pink or dolls or dresses! i always had short hair as a kid, though long hair now as i dont bother getting haircuts very often so easier to tie back. i have much older 2 brothers, and my dad, now my OH and two sons. i'd love a daughter but i dont think for a minute she'd be very girly either....but there is nothing wrong with that...end of the day people are who they want to be....not what society tells them to be

LabPixie

OP, you sound like you are in a happy marriage, and that you are a great mother to a little boy.

Is it possible that remarks (that may well have been made in passing) about your lack of "femininity", so to speak, may be niggling at the back of your mind?

As for your upbringing, yes that may have had an effect, but perhaps not as much as you think. In the end I believe our personalities will all come out. I gre up with two football sports obsessed parents. And two sports obsessed brothers. And one slightly less sports obsessed sister. The sister was a bit of a tom boy. The brothers were total boys. My mam never put a ribbon near my hair. We were never taken shopping except for essentials (uniforms and the like).

And yet here I am today in my twenties. I still don't care for sports anymore than I did as a child. I taught myself to apply make-up (not like my mam was ever going to teach me. If she needs to wear make up these days, she get me to put it on for her), I enjoy shopping, but not in a group. It's quicker and easier on my own. I have recently developed what could be described as a shoe habit. I wouldn't be terribly comfortable going walking around in my bra and knickers with other girls in the room, but neither would my mam have, so it nothing like that was ever done in the house.

Basically don't worry about it. If you still think you'd like to have te thought to pick out the pretty vest to put with jeans, perhaps make an appointment with a style advisor. I know Debenhams have one. They'll take you around the shop, help you pick out some clothes for your style (or the style you're after) and you don't have to buy if you don't like. It may guide you in the direction of style and you can take all the info on board and then you may just be happier in your white t-shirt, or you may start picking out lemon vests!

I think maybe you are just feeling a bit uncomfortable in your own skin. Hope you are feeling better soon.

Broad

Unregistered wrote: »

he's not short of cuddles!

Well that's all that matters so don't worry about anything.

Loads of us are not girly-girls. I can't tolerate makeup of any variety, feel "false" in it, and hate the way nail varnish stains the toe nails yellow..

Always happiest in jeans and a t-shirt (preferably black) but I feel well secure as a girl. I have girls and a boy and they have done just fine with their non-girly mother who loves them all to death. Keep up the cuddles. Nothing else matters but that you adore them and let them know.

I don't get what the big deal is. I grew up with a a mum and sister as well as dad and brother and I also hate manicures, baths, pink, cuddly toys etc. My room has been painted blue since I was a kid. Loads of women are just not girly. As I've gotten older, I've started wearing more skirts, make-up, perfume etc, but I don't like any of the things Oh The Humanity mentioned. I'm still trying to figure out how to walk in heels. You can be a totally normal, well adjusted woman without having a French manicure and reading OK magazine.

LegacyUser

OP here.

Thanks for replies guys - you're right when you say there are remarks hanging around in the back of my head. I commented recently that I'd never want a daughter and a 'friend' was amazed and appalled and said she'd never come across anyone like me! All women want daughters (she said)..it's human nature...

Needless to say, I began to wonder if I was a bit of a freak! And no doubt, that's not true anyhow - although I've yet to come across another woman who has a 'fear' of having a daughter like I have, but I'm sure they're out there! I think that's what made me really wonder if my upbringing had had more of an impact on me that I thought.

sachamama

Unregistered wrote: »

All women want daughters (she said)..it's human nature...

there's a thread on boards about a woman who doesnt want children at all...
people shouldnt generalise. its not healthy!

Nevyn

Unregistered wrote: »

OP here.

Thanks for replies guys - you're right when you say there are remarks hanging around in the back of my head. I commented recently that I'd never want a daughter and a 'friend' was amazed and appalled and said she'd never come across anyone like me! All women want daughters (she said)..it's human nature...

Bollix, I didn't.

Certain shades of pink just scream at me and i hate them, currently going into her room is something I avoid unless I have to.

I fretted over if we'd bond and how we'd grow apart as she became more of a girlie girl and I was never taught how to put on make up by my mother ( she was too busy looking after the rest of the babies) but you know what,
there is nothing which you can not go learn about or figure out for a daughter or when she gets older with her.

There are some ways which she doesn't fit in wiht the girls in the class and on the street despite the pinkness and the girlie stuff and that is because she is her own person and won't be cowed, I try and respect her choices as much as I can even if her snatching up the pink and glittery choice has me rolling my eyes and making sure she wants that one and she know she doesn't have to take the pink one that other colours are for girls and she's not less of a girl if she prefers the green one, has her rolling her eyes at me, cos she actually likes the pink one.

The best gift you can give any child no matter what thier gender is self confidence and you do that with respect, understanding and love and that goes both ways.

She knows there is no way in hell she can get me to watch highschoolmusical 3,( I watched it once with her and we talked about it's content but that it, parental duty done ) I know there is no way I can get her to watch the dark crystal with me but we will happily watch avatar the last airbender and starwars.

But the whole main stream media and advertising ideas of what it is to be a girl and what it is to be a woman and what it is to be female and feminine are tbh a big heap of steaming bull crap. If my daughter turns out to be still a girlie girl when she grows up then it will be cause she chooses to be not because she thinks it's the only way to be or that she has to be and as long as she is making informed choices I will do my best to respect her even if she starts bringing home cosmo.

Unregistered wrote: »

Needless to say, I began to wonder if I was a bit of a freak! And no doubt, that's not true anyhow - although I've yet to come across another woman who has a 'fear' of having a daughter like I have, but I'm sure they're out there! I think that's what made me really wonder if my upbringing had had more of an impact on me that I thought.

Look I don't fit in with the yummy mummys either, can't talk eastenders, not intrested in gossip, the whole mother and toddler group was a painful experience but the kids when they were small enjoyed it.

There is nothing wrong with looking back at how you were reared and how things were and figuring out the impacts and wanting to do better for your kids. None what so ever but don't be shackled by it, take the best bits and make them happen for your kids and change the things you would have like to have gone a little differently.

I think that having a daughter esp one who is so girlie has given me a better understanding of those who are ( well some of them ) and has allowed me to do things I didn't get to do when I was growing up or want to do but I do them with/for her and tbh it's softened me in a lot of ways I never expected.

Oh The Humanity

All women want daughters (she said)..it's human nature...

Its mental that some people go around thinking like that! I've a friend who thinks the same, she now has 2 sons and was actually dissappointed there was no girl .....

Jamie-b

Quote:
All women want daughters (she said)..it's human nature...
Its mental that some people go around thinking like that! I've a friend who thinks the same, she now has 2 sons and was actually dissappointed there was no girl .....

I have no children as of yet, and I really do want to, but the idea of having a boy makes me terrified. I have know so many girls who have been sexually abused by male family members that if I had a choice I would never have a male child. My point here is not to degrade or stereotype al males, but to demostrate what the op is saying: your upbringing and experiences do determine how you feel about children of a certain sex

rainbow kirby

OP, I'm very much the tomboyish type too - no makeup, no heels, short hair, hate wearing skirts, most of my friends are guys, my class in college was 90% male and most of my interests are stereotypically male. I'm happy with the way things are though, this is who I am and that's not about to change.

Eve_Dublin

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Dont worry about it.

Girlyness = cringe. It glorifies vanity and vacuousness imho.

Shopping, pinkness, fairies, butterflies, soap operas, chick flicks, not being able to drive or park and being proud of it, spending 10 hours getting ready, dresses, nails, celeb mags, high heels, r&b, obsession with jewellery and weddings, thinking spa breaks are great, talking about relationships, etc etc

Its mind numbing! I'd rather gouge my eyes out.

You're better than that! Dont feel bad, be glad!!

...you're forgetting fake tan, Oh The Humanity...fake bleedin' tan!! Arrrrrgh!! And the latest diet, wedding dresses, beading on wedding invitations, hair-straighteners, how they're "addicted to bags and shoes!!", "girly nights" watching Rom-Coms, eating ice-cream and drinking red wine (NEVER Smithwicks, my tipple of choice).... OP have you ever sat with women discussing these things in depth? I do on a daily basis and it sucks a little bit of my soul out of me every time. Careful what you wish for....

Victor

Unregistered wrote: »

funny..reading your replies I feel like I've actually been trying to conform to what society believes a woman should be? I never really thought of it like that..
I am comfortable in my own skin (after some counselling!) but lavendar baths? Hate them. Candles? Hate them. Pink? Hate it. Manicures? I'd rather watch paint dry.

Lots of guys don't get the whole cars, football, going mad drinking, etc. Everyone is different. Now, it would seem to be that you are uncomfortable being different, but lets face it, its OK to be different. Just look at the people on this site.

As regards girly things, why not do the girly things that you like, tag along for the ones your friends like and ignore the rest?