In My Father's House there are many mansions...

kelly1

I'd just like to get people's views on the concept of different degrees of glory in heaven as explained by this article.

What think ye?

God bless,
Noel.

BrianCalgary

I don't think I would use the term 'different degrees of glory' as we will all see the full and complete glory of God.

Jesus does say that we are to build our trasures in Heaven, so I imagine that we will have differences based on how we used the gifts that God has given us, to the glory of God.

I look forward to a wee cabin in the woods beside a lake in Heaven. With no mosquitoes.

Splendour

I'm with Brain on this one.

I don't think there will be different degrees of glory, but I'm thinking there will be different degrees of 'housing' after we are judged. I really hope that believers who are living in earthly slums and third world countries will be given the 'mansions' of Heaven. That would be a l'il bit of Heaven for me

Another slant on this is that there may be 'horses for courses' so to speak ie: if you're into music, you'll be put in the music room, if cooking is your passion then you'll don the apron etc.. I other words our earthly talents will be brought to fruition in Heaven ans we get a chance to excel at these and bring each other pleasure. Heck, I may play guitar Jimi Hendrix style in Heaven!! Might sound flippant but who knows...?

As for that log cabin Brain? To have that on earth it sounds like Heaven to me

Húrin

I think it is more likely that there will be total equality among all the saints in heaven.

kelly1

Would someone who converts on his/her death-bed deserve the same rewards as someone who made huge sacrifices to spread the Gospel e.g. St Paul?

Matthew 20:16 So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
.....
20 Then came to him the mother of the sons of Zebedee with her sons, adoring and asking something of him.

21 Who said to her: What wilt thou? She saith to him: Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom. 22 And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. 23 He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. 24 And the ten hearing it, were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them to him, and said: You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them.

26 It shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: 27 And he that will be first among you, shall be your servant.

I believe that we will share in Christ's glory to the extent that we share in His suffering i.e. how willingly we take up our daily cross. The same goes for good works.

"The first shall be last and the last first". This shows that there will be differences between the saints in heaven. We won't all have the same amount of heavenly treasure.

Húrin

kelly1 wrote: »

Would someone who converts on his/her death-bed deserve the same rewards as someone who made huge sacrifices to spread the Gospel e.g. St Paul?

I think that our opinions on who deserves what rewards should have no bearing on our interpretation of the Biblical text. It is unlikely that they have influenced God's decisions.

kelly1

OK, let me ask a general question. Who here believes that good works will be rewarded in heaven?

dvpower

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, let me ask a general question. Who here believes that good works will be rewarded in heaven?

It would seem a bit unfair. To be specially rewarded for eternity for good works carried out in the relative instant of a human lifetime.

I'm stepping into unfamiliar territory here, but wouldn't expecting a special reward be frowned upon by God? Doesn't that fall into the category of Pride?

I would have expected that for Christians, just getting to Heaven is reward enough.

PDN

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, let me ask a general question. Who here believes that good works will be rewarded in heaven?

I believe good works will be rewarded throughout eternal life in glory (but not that it will be 'in heaven'). Both the teachings of Jesus and of Paul indicate that when we dwell in the new heavens and new earth in our resurrected bodies then there will be different degrees of reward according to how we have lived.

CS Lewis, in his book 'The Great Divorce', suggests that those who receive the most honour and glory in eternity will not be those whom we imagine. It will be those who served God faithfully and never received any recognition for it in this life.

homer911

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, let me ask a general question. Who here believes that good works will be rewarded in heaven?

The parable of the faithful servant comes to mind, for two reasons

• God expects those who trust and follow him to do good works and would appear to reward accordingly.
• We are not all blessed with the same skills and abilities to do good, but its what we make of the gifts that we have been given that will distinguish us -i.e. there is a degree of relativity in here

For example, if a millionaire was to give away €5k to charity, it would be judged relative to a person on €40k a year who gave away €5k

RayMc

PDN wrote: »

there will be different degrees of reward according to how we have lived.

How does this work? My (admittedly hazy) understanding is that those who make it to heaven are perfectly happy for eternity. If everyone is perfectly happy then how can one person be said to have been rewarded more or less than another?

kelly1

RayMc wrote: »

How does this work? My (admittedly hazy) understanding is that those who make it to heaven are perfectly happy for eternity. If everyone is perfectly happy then how can one person be said to have been rewarded more or less than another?

The way it was explained to me is that depending on the amount of merit a person has gained, they will have a lesser or greater capacity to "handle" God's grace. Some of us will have small "cups" and other large but all cups will be full to the brim and nobody will be envious of those with larger "cups".

kelly1

Some scriptural support for merit/reward here:

This doctrine of the Church simply echoes Scripture and Tradition. The Old Testament already declares the meritoriousness of good works before God. "But the just shall live for evermore: and their reward is with the Lord" (Wisdom 5:16). "Be not afraid to be justified even to death: for the reward of God continueth for ever" (Ecclus., xviii, 22). Christ Himself adds a special reward to each of the Eight Beatitudes and he ends with this fundamental thought: "Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven" (Matthew 5:12) In His description of the Last Judgment, He makes the possession of eternal bliss depend on the practice of the corporal works of mercy (Matthew 25:34 sqq.). Although St. Paul insists on nothing more strongly than the absolute gratuitousness of Christian grace, still he acknowledges merits founded on grace and also the reward due to them on the part of God, which he variously calls "prize" (Philippians 3:14; 1 Corinthians 9:24) "reward" (Colossians 3:24; 1 Corinthians 3:8), "crown of justice" (2 Timothy 4:7 sq.; cf. James 1:12). It is worthy of note that, in these and many others good works are not represented as mere adjuncts of justifying faith, but as real fruits of justification and part causes of our eternal happiness. And the greater the merit, the greater will be the reward in heaven (cf. Matthew 16:27; 1 Corinthians 3:8; 2 Corinthians 9:6). Thus the Bible itself refutes the assertion that "the idea of merit is originally foreign to the Gospel" (" Realencyklopädie für protest. Theologie," XX, 3rd ed. Leipzig, 1908, p. 501). That Christian grace can be merited either by the observance of the Jewish law or by mere natural works (see GRACE) this alone is foreign to the Bible. On the other hand, eternal reward is promised in the Bible to those supernatural works which are performed in the state of grace, and that because they are meritorious (cf. Matthew 25:34 sqq.; Romans 2:6 sqq.; 2 Corinthians 5:10).

Taken from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm

P.S. Just a note to say that according to Catholic doctrine, good works only have any real value in the eyes of God when they are united to Christ and this means being in a state of grace.

JimiTime

IMO, and i don't want to sound dismissive, I think its a question of no value. In fact, I can only see negatives resulting from the question. IMO, the best answer is, lets just wait and see. Don't let your left hand know what your right is doing, and don't be like the workers in the field who whinged, having worked all day, that they got paid the same amount as the ones that only worked for an hour. This is our father we are discussing. He's going to make sure we're ok and indeed all his children. Whatever our room in the mansion we are guaranteed that justice has been served. That in itself makes me happy. I really don't think its about how good our position is, or somesuch. Thinking of it in similar terms does nothing positive IMO.

Húrin

I agree with Jimi. I do not have any strong position on this one. But there seems to be no point to asking. It is better to just seek assurance of salvation. Sometimes Jesus' standards seem terrifyingly high. Not even all those who drive out demons in his name make it to the book of life.

kelly1

Mediocrity seems to be the order of the day. That's what I'm taking from this thread and the other one about Christian perfection. And that's not making any statement about myself...

Isn't merit and reward a good incentive to practice virtue and resist temptations in order to gain a more initimate union with God in heaven? Didn't Jesus tell us to store up treasure in heaven?

philologos

kelly1: I agree that there are differing degrees of punishment and differing degrees of heaven. However, I do disagree with you on how you use "the first will be last and the last will be first". This statement to me indicates that the least and the most will all be considered equally for what they have done on the day of judgement. God is impartial.

This phrase is used at the end of the Parable of The Labourers when Jesus discusses how the people who worked the longest (i.e were the longest) in the faith, would ultimately be considered the same as the ones who worked less (i.e were the newest to the Christian faith).

Matthew 20:11-16 wrote:

And when they received it, they grumbled against the landowner, saying, “These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.” But he replied to one of them, “Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?[URL="javascript:void(0);"]*[/URL] Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last the same as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?”[URL="javascript:void(0);"]*[/URL] So the last will be first, and the first will be last.’

Given the context, it seems that Jesus uses this phrase to refer to the last being equal to the first in His eyes, and that He is impartial.