Questions for the film censor.

Killme00 · 24-06-2009 7:59am #1

The last house on the left.

What the fck is the reasoning behind allowing a rape scene to be shown in any film?

tbh · 24-06-2009 8:09am

film Classification officer, not censor

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 24-06-2009 8:11am

how dare they let you make up your own mind about what movies you watch, what absolute bastards.

24-06-2009 8:30am

Killme00 wrote: »

The last house on the left.

What the fck is the reasoning behind allowing a rape scene to be shown in any film?

Are you serious?

The Film classifications office is there to view each film on it's own merits and give it a rating which reflects the films content. Last House on the Left recieved an 18s certificate and as such is deemed suitable for adults aged 18 and upward. It is believed that by the time you reach 18 years of age you are able to decide what you want to see and adult enough to understand that the content of a film is not in fact real.

Last House has a rape scene but so do hundreds of thousands of other films. If you seriously believe that we should have a censor in place editing out any scenes of rape then it's perhaps best that you don't watch anything above a 12s certificate in case of offending your delicate sensibilities.

mike65 · 24-06-2009 8:44am

Strange query. For decades the Irish filum goes suffered under the yoke of oppressive censorship, Kelleher treats the adults as adults. Rejoice and simply avoid material that you feel will offend. Sometimes the offence is required of course. Context is all.

AnonoBoy · 24-06-2009 8:49am

I actually don't think he posts here.

You could ring his office and ask him maybe.

Killme00 · 24-06-2009 9:20am

Apologies for the poor title.

However i dont think you get my point, is there anything that they wont allow?

24-06-2009 9:24am

Killme00 wrote: »

Apologies for the poor title.

However i dont think you get my point, is there anything that they wont allow?

Cruelty to animals is the only real no no in a film. In the right context it can be allowed but if it's done for the sake of it the footage will generally be removed.

uncleoswald · 24-06-2009 9:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

Cruelty to animals is the only real no no in a film. In the right context it can be allowed but if it's done for the sake of it the footage will generally be removed.

Are you talking about genuine animal cruelty or staged? If the latter what is their thinking behind it?

24-06-2009 9:30am

uncleoswald wrote: »

Are you talking about genuine animal cruelty or staged? If the latter what is their thinking behind it?

Real cruelty such as that in films like canniable Holocaust.

uncleoswald · 24-06-2009 9:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

Real cruelty such as that in films like canniable Holocaust.

It was a real Ox (or somefink) in Apocalypse Now as well no? So my next question is in what context do they deem real animal cruelty suitable?

Otis Driftwood · 24-06-2009 1:32pm

Killme00 wrote: »

The last house on the left.

What the fck is the reasoning behind allowing a rape scene to be shown in any film?

If you thought that was bad you should watch Irreversible

uncleoswald wrote: »

So my next question is in what context do they deem real animal cruelty suitable?

This can be something of a grey area.
Darko mentioned Cannibal Holocaust.

The animal killings in it (and Cannibal Ferox,Eaten Alive)were done for no other reason than to shock.Holocaust is Rugerro Deodatas social commentary on Mondo movies and how Gualtiero Jacopetti and Franco Prosperi basically used indigenous people and their customs aswell as fabricating scenarios to make a "shockumentary"

Unfortunatly this was and still is completly lost on the majority of the movie viewing public.

As to whats acceptable nowadays?

Id say things like animals been killed in ritual's or for religous ceramonies would be acceptable.Likewise animals been killed in a proper setting like a slaughter house would also likely be deemed acceptable.

Animals been killed for no other purpose than for doing it though are likely a big no no.

As I said though,its still somewhat of a grey area.

TheIrishGrover · 24-06-2009 2:15pm

Killme00 wrote: »

The last house on the left.

What the fck is the reasoning behind allowing a rape scene to be shown in any film?

And to FORCE you watch it? B*stard!!!!!!!

latenia · 24-06-2009 2:37pm

I don't see what the problem is really, as long as the true effects and consequences are dealt with. Straw Dogs was on very dodgy ground with this which is why it was banned.

humanji · 24-06-2009 3:47pm

nedtheshed wrote: »

If you thought that was bad you should watch Irreversible

Or Indiana Jones 4!

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 3:50pm

Rape happens. It's a part of life.

Nolanger · 24-06-2009 4:11pm

It's the usual Irish thing - decades being too extreme with their censorship and now that try to make up for it by passing everything. Well they won't be passing my new movie Cannibal Leprechaun Chainsaw Wifeswappers

.

24-06-2009 4:21pm

♫ wrote: »

Rape happens. It's a part of life.

That comment is perhaps one of the oddest I've read in a long time. Rape like murder does happen on a regular basis in our world but it's far from a part of life for the average person. Would you tell a girl that was raped that she'll be fine, "It's just a part of life".

Back to the animal cruelt, as Nedtheshed said it's acceptable as long as it's not just there for the sake of it.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 4:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That comment is perhaps one of the oddest I've read in a long time. Rape like murder does happen on a regular basis in our world but it's far from a part of life for the average person.

It does happen so it should be portayed.

abouttobebanned · 24-06-2009 4:29pm

The fact that rape happens alot, every day in this world, does make it a part of life I'm afraid.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 4:34pm

Not a part of everyone's life but some people's. We should not forget that. It does happen in life. But not in everyone's individual life. In everyone's lifetime I'd say.

24-06-2009 4:58pm

♫ wrote: »

It does happen so it should be portayed.

Did anyone say it shouldn't be portrayed. Rape is not a part of life for the vast majority of people and as such you cannot say "oh it's ok it's only rape, sure it's a part of life". A rape scene is something which should be used in context and not something there simply to shock.

From your thread on foreign films being thinly veild por, would you classify a rape scene as titillation?

tbh · 24-06-2009 5:32pm

♫ wrote: »

It does happen so it should be portayed.

well, it shouldn't be ignored, there's a difference.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 6:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone say it shouldn't be portrayed. Rape is not a part of life for the vast majority of people and as such you cannot say "oh it's ok it's only rape, sure it's a part of life". A rape scene is something which should be used in context and not something there simply to shock. From your thread on foreign films being thinly veild por, would you classify a rape scene as titillation?

The OP doesn't seem to think that there should be room for a rape scene in a film.

Did I say "oh it's ok it's only rape, sure it's a part of life". You say a rape scene "should be used in context and not something there simply to shock." When did I say it should be used to shock the audience. Never. Don't put words into my mouth.

I would not regard a rape scene as titillation. Now don't get on your high horse when I say this but some people may as it could make the film more exciting. Some people may find it so. It adds to the drama.

~me~ · 24-06-2009 6:17pm

♫ wrote: »

The OP doesn't seem to think that there should be room for a rape scene in a film.

Did I say "oh it's ok it's only rape, sure it's a part of life". You say a rape scene "should be used in context and not something there simply to shock." When did I say it should be used to shock the audience. Never. Don't put words into my mouth.

I would not regard a rape scene as titillation. Now don't get on your high horse when I say this but some people may as it could make the film more exciting. Some people may find it so. It adds to the drama.

wasnt there a rape scene in watchmen?
i havent seen the movie the OP is referring to so i dunno how extreme it was in comparison but the one in watchmen was fairly 'raw' as far as i remember and that wasnt 18s i dont think. and it wasnt really necessary to the film plot afaik.
i dont see the problem either way, murder is shown in loads of films and thats in the same vein and no-one bats an eyelid. and the murder is there for the excitement.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 6:19pm

~me~ wrote: »

i dont see the problem either way, murder is shown in loads of films and thats in the same vein and no-one bats an eyelid. and the murder is there for the excitement.

Here Here

24-06-2009 6:39pm

♫ wrote: »

The OP doesn't seem to think that there should be room for a rape scene in a film.

Did I say "oh it's ok it's only rape, sure it's a part of life". You say a rape scene "should be used in context and not something there simply to shock." When did I say it should be used to shock the audience. Never. Don't put words into my mouth.

Actually what you said was "Rape happens. It's a part of life." The way your post regarding the matter come across you seem to think that it's okay to show rape simply because it happens in real life.

There are many films containing rape scenes which have no place in the film and are simply there to shock. In films such as Last House the rape scene is an integral part of the plot.

♫ wrote: »

I would not regard a rape scene as titillation. Now don't get on your high horse when I say this but some people may as it could make the film more exciting. Some people may find it so. It adds to the drama.

Yes it can add a lot to story though at the same time if used ineffectively it can do more damage to a film than good. As such simply because rape happens in real life is not enough grounds to include it in a film.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 6:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually what you said was "Rape happens. It's a part of life." The way your post regarding the matter come across you seem to think that it's okay to show rape simply because it happens in real life.

It came across to you like that.

24-06-2009 6:57pm

♫ wrote: »

It came across to you like that.

I think that's how it came across to everyone seeing as you put it that way.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:06pm

It's a part of life. It happens. Where have you been living? Stop stirtring the pot and trying to twist words.

krudler · 24-06-2009 7:07pm

♫ wrote: »

It's a part of life. It happens. Where have you been living? Stop stirtring the pot and trying to twist words.

Prison?

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:09pm

krudler wrote: »

Prison?

If Darko was living there then he'd have seen it. I hear it's all the go!

~me~ · 24-06-2009 7:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that's how it came across to everyone seeing as you put it that way.

i dont think they meant it in the flippant way you seem to think.
i assume they just meant that it does happen so why shouldnt it be portrayed in films. same with murder, sex, violence..
just cause this one thing is not generally talked about doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:10pm

~me~ wrote: »

i dont think they meant it in the flippant way you seem to think.
i assume they just meant that it does happen so why shouldnt it be portrayed in films. same with murder, sex, violence..
just cause this one thing is not generally talked about doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

Fair play. That's it. Thanks.

24-06-2009 7:11pm

♫ wrote: »

It's a part of life. It happens. Where have you been living? Stop stirtring the pot and trying to twist words.

I'm not trying to stir the pot as you put it but rape is not a part of life. Like murder it's a part of a small percentage of the worlds life, it is not a daily occurrence which affects many people.

24-06-2009 7:13pm

♫ wrote: »

If Darko was living there then he'd have seen it. I hear it's all the go!

Have you not experienced it? Nothing like dropping the soap in a crowded wash room.

mal1 · 24-06-2009 7:16pm

On a side note, did anyone see the rape scene in Martina Cole's The Take on Sky One last week. Took me by surprise, I had to change the channel. Not in the same league as the violent rape scene in 'Irreversible'. But pretty bad all the same.

I'd either leave the cinema or change the channel if it's upsetting me that much. Wouldn't bother questioning the censor. Censoring is a tough job. How can any organisation/individual possibly get the right balance for such a varied audience.

24-06-2009 7:16pm

~me~ wrote: »

i dont think they meant it in the flippant way you seem to think.
i assume they just meant that it does happen so why shouldnt it be portrayed in films. same with murder, sex, violence..
just cause this one thing is not generally talked about doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

If you read through my posts you will see that I have no problem with it being portrayed in film and believe that it should be. I just can't see how rape affects our daily lives. How many people do you know who have been raped?

24-06-2009 7:18pm

mal1 wrote: »

On a side note, did anyone see the rape scene in Martina Cole's The Take on Sky One last week. Took me by surprise, I had to change the channel. Not in the same league as the violent rape scene in 'Irreversible'. But pretty bad all the same.

I'd either leave the cinema or change the channel if it's upsetting me that much. Wouldn't bother questioning the censor. Censoring is a tough job. How can any organisation/individual possibly get the right balance for such a varied audience.

That one came out of left field alright. If you want a truly deplorable rape scene get the unrated copy of Death Wish 2, it's one of those films that I don't think I'll ever watch with another person.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you read through my posts you will see that I have no problem with it being portrayed in film and believe that it should be. I just can't see how rape affects our daily lives. How many people do you know who have been raped?

It mightn't affect you. Fine

You can't see how rape affects our daily lives! Is it ever off the air! Frequently in the papers.

~me~ · 24-06-2009 7:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you read through my posts you will see that I have no problem with it being portrayed in film and believe that it should be. I just can't see how rape affects our daily lives. How many people do you know who have been raped?

including myself, four. some directly, others indirectly. it may not effect everyones daily lives but it is a part of life (which is what the actual post said 'part of life'). and i think its more real and 'life portraying' than some lovey dovey sex scenes you see or happy go lucky it all works out in the end crap you see in other movies, people just dont like to admit it.

echosound · 24-06-2009 7:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you read through my posts you will see that I have no problem with it being portrayed in film and believe that it should be. I just can't see how rape affects our daily lives. How many people do you know who have been raped?

Quite a few actually. Most victims don't go around broadcasting the fact they were raped to all and sundry. Probably some of the women you know right now have been raped in the past, but don't choose to share that fact with anyone bar their nearest and dearest, if even that, therefore you are blissfully unaware that some people you actually know may have been affected directly by rape.

Have a chat to the rape crisis centre and see what kind of numbers ring them every week, then take into account many women don't even report rape/seek counselling, so you can multiply that figure by perhaps a factor of 4 to get a true picture of how many women in Ireland, let alone countries where it's more endemic, are raped.

As regards the film, sure there are rape scenes that are included for titillation, but in last house on the left, it's the main motivation for the revenge on the parent's part IMO. While the plot would still have worked with just the abduction/beating as motivator, it's the fact that their teenage daughter was also brutalised in this manner that is particularly sickening and drives them to the lengths they go to.

Don't see why the classification office should do anything other that give it an 18s cert TBH. It's up to the adult viewing audience to decide if it's something they wish to see. I don't think the rape scene was handled badly at all; if anything, the fact that it's a hard scene to watch/makes the viewer flinch is good - gives a truer picture of the horror that is inflicted on a victim.

The Accused made me flinch during the rape scene, do I think the film should have cut away completely, and not held it's gaze? No, absolutely not, it's a powerful piece of cinema that lodges in your mind.

24-06-2009 7:35pm

♫ wrote: »

It mightn't affect you. Fine

You can't see how rape affects our daily lives! Is it ever off the air! Frequently in the papers.

I don't read the tabloids so I generally miss their sensationalist articles about rape and murder. Tbh it's obvious that you refuse to take on board anyone elses opinion. Rape is a part of life but it does not affect most people, it affects a small percentage of the worlds population.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't read the tabloids so I generally miss their sensationalist articles about rape and murder. Tbh it's obvious that you refuse to take on board anyone elses opinion. Rape is a part of life but it does not affect most people, it affects a small percentage of the worlds population.

I think you may find they are covered in the broadsheets as well. :rolleyes:

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 7:40pm

echosound wrote: »

Take into account many women don't even report rape/seek counselling.

Many wouldn't discuss the event if it happened to themselves. I suppose this is why there is a need to portray it in film. It should not be thrown under the covers. Films should portray the effects it has on the abused.

~me~ · 24-06-2009 7:45pm

♫ wrote: »

Many wouldn't discuss the event if it happened to themselves. I suppose this is why there is a need to portray it in film. It should not be thrown under the covers. Films should portray the effects it has on the abused.

exactly. showing it in films means that people who dont read the tabloids will be enlightened.

24-06-2009 8:23pm

~me~ wrote: »

exactly. showing it in films means that people who dont read the tabloids will be enlightened.

Are you seriously saying that having a rape scene in a film such as Last House is there to enlighten us? Rape is a serious issue and should be dealt with in such a manner. Rape scenes in films such as Death Wish, Last House, I Spit on Your Grave, etc are there for the sole reason of forwarding the plot.

Rape in cinema is rarely a reflection of rape in real life. How many films can you name which show the effects of rape on the victim? The answer is very few, most rape scenes are merely a plot point.

How many rapes these days are nothing more than girls getting so drunk that they have no recollection of the night before and assume they were raped. I know of one case in which a guy was accused of rape because a girl kissed him and later on was scared her her boyfriend would find out so she accuse the guy she kissed of raping her. While the truth came out in the end it still ruined his life.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 8:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Rape is a serious issue and should be dealt with in such a manner. Rape in cinema is rarely a reflection of rape in real life. How many films can you name which show the effects of rape on the victim? The answer is very few, most rape scenes are merely a plot point. I know of one case in which a guy was accused of rape because a girl kissed him and later on was scared her her boyfriend would find out so she accuse the guy she kissed of raping her. While the truth came out in the end it still ruined his life.

I suppose they could be put in for the drama too. They're no laughing matter though. If they're were in a horror film that would seem OK. Horror film are horrible.

I can't name the films. I wouldn't be watching too many anyway.

That story about the girl and the guy is a story alright but don't let it overshadow all the real victims out there.

24-06-2009 8:38pm

♫ wrote: »

I suppose they could be put in for the drama too. They're no laughing matter though. If they're were in a horror film that would seem OK. Horror film are horrible.

I can't name the films. I wouldn't be watching too many anyway.

That story about the girl and the guy is a story alright but don't let it overshadow all the real victims out there.

Rape scenes also occur in dramas and much like in horror films they are generally nothing more than a plot point. There are some films which deal with the after effects of rape but they are generally dreadful made for tv movies more often than not starring the human fridge freezer Brian Denahey.

~me~ · 24-06-2009 8:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that having a rape scene in a film such as Last House is there to enlighten us? Rape is a serious issue and should be dealt with in such a manner. Rape scenes in films such as Death Wish, Last House, I Spit on Your Grave, etc are there for the sole reason of forwarding the plot.

Rape in cinema is rarely a reflection of rape in real life. How many films can you name which show the effects of rape on the victim? The answer is very few, most rape scenes are merely a plot point.

How many rapes these days are nothing more than girls getting so drunk that they have no recollection of the night before and assume they were raped. I know of one case in which a guy was accused of rape because a girl kissed him and later on was scared her her boyfriend would find out so she accuse the guy she kissed of raping her. While the truth came out in the end it still ruined his life.

i never said anything about those films so in answer to your first question, no i'm not.
in relation to your second question, i dunno.
and to your third, how many girls these days are scared of reporting their rapists as a result of comments like that? Alot.

Crotchety · 24-06-2009 8:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Rape scenes also occur in dramas and much like in horror films they are generally nothing more than a plot point. There are some films which deal with the after effects of rape but they are generally dreadful made for tv movies more often than not starring the human fridge freezer Brian Denahey.

What about murders? They occur in plenty of films but we don't find out about the effects. I suppose they wouldn't have to portray the effects in all films but it could help.

Questions for the film censor.

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