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Why is this happening today?

  • 24-06-2009 01:11AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hello,
    My name is Ahmed. I came to Ireland from Pakistan 10 years ago. I loved it on here and my children they were enjoying the time we have here. I became fluent in english and I studied for years before I left Pakistan in the hope I find a job in Ireland. When I arrived I found a job after few months and began to settle. I was enjoying life in Ireland but this all changed recently. Today I regular have people shouting at me in the streets and they say to me to go home and call me bad names. This never happened to me when I arrive. My children have been assaulted by Irish children because of where they are from and now they are scared to leave the house without me. Life was difficult in Pakistan for everyone in my family and we left as we feel it was getting violent in our region and wanted to have better life. My wife gets very upset everynight and cries. She has lost many of her Irish friends in the last year as they became mean towards her and made nasty comments about her religon and the fact that we are here in Ireland from Pakistan. She cannot understand this as they were never like this with her before. Only one of my children wants to stay and that is because he loves the gaaleac football but sometimes I feel that he will never be accept in Ireland because of his colour. Hope you understand and can give advice to me.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,772 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I think part of it may be the recession. Rightly or wrongly, people see foreigners / people who are different and blame them in part for why they don't have a job. Skin colur, religion, etc. are merely excuses.

    Sure, Ireland was fairly homogenous before the 1990s, but people are still slow to accept that Irish people come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, colours, religions, orientations, etc. Well unless they played sport or music at a high level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭devereaux17


    Selam Ahmed, :)

    I can just say one thing stuff like this is very very sad to hear, especially when its coming from a dad of a young family.

    I really don't know what to say, its terrible to hear and as you say your wife has had people who were friendly turn against her in the past while :mad: I hate to hear that your wife cries at night about this and that only one child wants to stay in Ireland:(

    The only positive thing I can say to you is that for all the bigots out there, there is also many people who are not like this. I don't think I can say the 'vast majority' but certainly there are many people who aren't like this.

    Really sorry for what you're family is experiencing.

    Where do you live? Dublin? How about sending your kids to the school in the Mosque Clonskeagh?? My best friend is Muslim and his dad was completely against sending his children there but maby for your childrens sake they would feel more comfortable here?

    Also what type of area are you in? Would it be upper/middle/working class?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Terodil


    (( ... and I have been considering giving up my job here to move to Ireland =( ))

    I cannot help OP but you have my feelings... if the pain is big enough, maybe move to another area? not certain that'll help but perhaps you are located in one of the more precarious areas with lots of unemployment?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Is this your local people or just in general? Have you discussed with community leaders or legal to see what is there to address this?

    For example my wife was attacked by three kids near where we lived and told to "go back to where you came from" (threw water and other stuff over her). As my son was with her and she didn't fully understand what was going on she was naturally stressed out and reluctant to leave the house.

    She couldn't fully describe them but remembered they had school uniforms (and they were beside the school). I contacted the school who explained which school to contact based on the uniforms and gave me the main contact names of the people and arranged for them to call me.

    That school also tried to assist in finding the kids and the previous school we rang even rang up the local church as they had a camera pointing onto the street to see if they could get their faces.

    We didn't get them, but the wife was a lot less stressed about walking out in her neighborhood.

    Assuming your in a good area, your community will help you if you reach out. No one should have to put up with the crap you describe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭wicklowgal


    Hi OP, I'm afraid I have no advice for you. However, I can honestly say that it is when I hear things like this that it makes me ashamed to be Irish. What happened to a friendly, welcoming Ireland?? Have people forgotten how many people had to emigrate to America to find work??

    It is truely disgraceful how you and your family are being treated, especially your children. Childhood should be a happy time, not a time of fear. My only reasoning on the situation is miseducation and complete and utter pig ignorance on the part of these racist people.

    I hope things begin to look up again for you and your family. Good Luck.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Ahmed,

    Unfortunately this type of behaviour is on the increase and will continue to increase due to the recession unless people do something about it. Racism is a crime and you should report evey incident to the Gardai particularly if their is violence involved and insist that they take some action.

    I agree it would make you ashamed to be Irish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi Ahmed,
    I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. Unfortunately, you're not alone. Members of a variety of ethnic groups living in Ireland have been on the receiving end of abuse as of late.
    This is disgusting behaviour in my opinion and it needs to be challenged. People cannot continue with this kind of abuse, and think that it's acceptable.

    I think for the sake of your family and for other families who are not indigenous Irish that it's best to actually lodge these complaints. A formal record of them needs to be made. Nothing will be done unless knowledge of such racist attacks reach the public domain.
    Firstly, I would suggest you contact two organisations: Nasc (which is an immigrant support centre and deals with racism) and the Immigrant Council of Ireland. Both should be able to offer support and give you further direction.
    Nasc: http://www.nascireland.org/pages/advice/advice.htm
    ICI: http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/index.php

    You might also wish to consider contacting the gardai in relation to the incidents you've experienced. At the very least, a complaint will be registered with them.

    You have worked here and paid your taxes.and contributed to the economy here..and I'd bet those who hurl racist abuse at you in the streets haven't worked a day in their life.
    They should not be allowed to get away with this.

    Do contact those organisations. At the very least they should be able to offer your family some support.

    I hope things improve. All the best.


  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Ximena Disgusting Stadium


    Sorry you have had such a bad experience in Ireland. Unfortunately there are a lot of small minded, ignorant bigots around and even though you know they are idiots, it is still very upsetting to hear their comments and be subjected to abuse. Sure, most of them are too stupid to tell one ethnicity from another (I'm white - Irish and a quarter Mediterranean and I get called Paki all the time :rolleyes:) You should report all incidents to the Gardai. It usually doesn't come to anything, but at least the report will be there, included in the crime statistics. Most people do not bother to report this stuff and therefore it looks like it doesn't happen.

    I also don't think you should send your kids to the Mosque school unless you want to. Irish people are going to have to bloody wake up and realise that many kids of ethnic minorities were born here and consider themselves as Irish as anyone else. I think it's much better for kids to be integrated in with the locals than lumped in with kids from their own background. If you look around, there are loads of Irish born black, mixed, Asian kids. People are going to have to accept this sooner or later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I have to say, I am surprised at how bad things have gotten for the OP. My Mum and Dad are from Kashmir, but I was born here and have lived my entire life here and have never experienced too much racism.

    As such, I really don't have much advice for the OP. However, the odd time I have had people bothering me in the street, I would just tell them to piss off and if they continue with the abuse, I would just hurl it right back at them and most will go away, as I am a fairly big lad and pretty loud when I want to be.

    Remember, that not all people here are like the people you have encountered and most are pretty decent.

    I think the best thing you can do is follow some of the excellent advice offered by others in this thread and hopefully things will improve for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Why have your wifes irish friends turned on her? This seems very peculiar?

    Are you sure they have? Perhaps you are feeling isolated and not reaching out to friends yourself? just an idea.

    I'd say think seriously about moving to a different area. I live in south city centre, just south of the canal and have all races on my street but no trouble ever.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Salamalaikum Ahmed,

    I am sorry for what you and your family have been going through. I do not visit the boards much more now, so this reply is a bit late but I hope you are doing better and get a chance to read this.

    To give you some background I am in my 20s and also from Pakistan, but born and raised in Ireland. I went to school and university here and while I still return to Pakistan 3-4 times a year I feel at ease in Ireland.

    As you know this is a country known for its open culture and friendly people - however there is a small portion of people who are racist. These people are generally unkind people to everyone, and it just so happens that being foreign these days is easier to pick on. What surprises me though is that some of your former friends turned on your children / wife.

    1. Do you have a circle of close Irish friends who you can still confide to - just discussing the problem will help a lot. Maybe invite some of them over for lunch / dinner to your place to allow your family some normality.

    2. Do you have a circle of work friends you could discuss your problems with. They may be able to help out in some ways.

    3. Have you contacted the Gardai about your children being assaulted? The police are very fair in their handlings so make sure you have the number of your local gardai and call them at the first sign of trouble.

    4. Ask your wife to speak to her former friends individually (so to avoid group speak). If they continue their hostility, there is no need to make any further efforts. Do not be afraid to break off contacts with such people.

    5. Do not become reclusive to the point of avoiding Ireland's culture. I think it is great your son likes sport, tell him to stay involved in his school sports. Maybe speak to their teacher. I played hockey, cricket and hurling throughout school and college and it was a great way for me to make friends.

    6. As a Pakistani I know other Pakistanis have a tendency of discouraging their children from making friends with Irish people. This is the wrong way of approaching the situation. As a Muslim you may not agree with drinking, but that should not stop your children from having a social life - I would seriously encourage sports for school aged children and sports as well as socities if your children are going to university.

    7. If there is a Pakistani community near your home get involved with them. But remember, you don't want to become an exclusive Pakistani family either. The mosque is another great place for support.

    8. Ramadan is about to start, I remember going to the mosque for Iftar and getting to meet lots of people. Do that with your family if you get the chance. Trust me iftar is much better at a mosque than the gluttonous pakistani iftar parties we have.

    9. If you log on with a user name (or create a new one), I would be happy to message you privately and speak to you in much more detail.

    Remember not to lose faith. Having grown up in the 1990s when there were far fewer Pakistanis, I do notice a change in attitudes towards us (if anything, people are more aware of our presence and where we come from). However, the key is not to shielding away and being known for our quirkiness, rather we need to live normally and show our best features - we are social, kind, generous people. I do not agree with immigrants not assimilating with their adopted countries - we can mix without compromising our morals (I don't drink for example - but have always had a full social life).

    I wish you and your family all the best. It is unfortunate that our country's situation causes so many of us to leave every year - but this is how the world works. We should never be ashamed of being migrants to another country.

    Finally - I will stress this again - Get the gardai involved if your children are being threatened. Even if the children are young (e.g. 12 yr old kids threatning your children). I never experienced racism growing up here, but I do see it happening now unfortunately - and I feel ashamed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭Ibrahimovic91


    Excellent post man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    There's a proportion of every country that are racist prícks, unfortunately in times of economic trouble that percentage increases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    Have you called the guards about your children being assaulted? What your describing seems to be way beyond regular experiences of racism. Granted were a racist bunch but Ive never heard of it that bad in my life and Im mates with people of a few colours and nationalities, what your describing seems to be like as if your being chased out of the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi Ahmed.

    I do not have any advice for you, Im just writing to say how sorry I am to hear what has happened to you and hope that you know that not all Irish people are like that. Its makes me ashamed to think that these people can tar a country with their nastyness. I hope things get better for you and your family.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭Dublin141


    Things like this sicken me. The people who lived in my house before me were driven out by the kids around here. Even now, neighbours say things like oh the people who lived there before you were Muslim - I say and what? and they shut up quick enough. There is a family a few doors away who are not Irish, I haven't met the parents yet but the children are lovely kids. But they can't play in the playground unless myself or my OH are there because of how the other kids treat them. Two of the children are actually Irish, they were born here, raised here, they are Irish, yet they can't even play outside because they are attacked and belittled by other kids. It disgusts me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I think this is a much bigger problem - why are our children (ages 6 - 12) turning into such chavs / gangster wannabes / brats. They think it is cool to speak in slang english, use offensive terms, get drunk in the 'bushes' and bully people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭MizzLolly


    One of my good friends is an African Muslim and she is regularly told to go back to Africa and other such rubbish. I agree that it's a very sad situation and I felt awful reading that your wife cries every night. I'm so sorry that your family are feeling so unwanted.

    I don't think the reason's for such behaviour have changed, the cause of this racism is pure and simply down to sheer ignorance. I think that the recent focus on the country's finance and the fact that so many Irish families are suffering is adding fuel to this ignorance though. I am absolutely sickened by this attitude and when I hear grown adults use racist slurs and comments I'm not a bit surprised by the current state of the country. Anybody stupid and obnoxious enough to discriminate against a family based on their nationality/religion etc are idiots and unfortunately there are quite a few of them in this country. (the same people who used their votes for the current government :rolleyes: ) I don't think I have a solution to your dilemma. All I can say is don't take it personally. It's not you, your religion or your colour that's causing this, it's simply down to foolish, ignorant people and their uneducated opinions. Neither yourself or your family have done anything wrong.!

    I really hope that things improve for you.
    Good luck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭Fiend-Foe


    Hi Ahmed,

    I have no advice for you, there is some great suggestions above. Just want to say how much I feel for you and your family and how much this behavior disgusts me. I really hate to see this kind of stuff and it makes me ashamed to be Irish.

    I hope by following some of the advice above your situation will improve in the future. Hopefully you and your wife will make some real friends soon who will support you and make you feel welcom.

    Prehaps you should join one of the interest groups here on boards that would appeal to you, it could be a good way to meet some decent people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Hi Ahmed,

    I too unfortunately have no advice to offer you. Except for the shame I feel at being Irish when I hear this.

    Sickens me that we all have forgotten that only until a few yrs ago most of each generation had to emigrate to make a living. - And now the well off scum bags that are staying in Ireland take out their abuse on folk who are just doing what their uncles, aunts etc did.

    Don't let these idiots get to you. Follow the advice above. There are loads of us around who do not agree with these small minded prats - but always be concious of who is around you.

    Really hope you and your family can find a way to get past this group of idiots. Maybe even reach out to your local councillors - surely the fear that you will go to the papers and highlight the South as being as racist as the group in the North were to the Romanians might spur them to action...

    BOL
    T


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Like many of the other posters here Ahmed, I don't actually have any constructive advice for you.....
    I just wanted to reach out to you as an Irish person and let you know that we are not all like that.
    My heart breaks for you, your wife and your children..... It is shocking how this country is turning into a horrible criticising place to live where people feel the need to start problems for others to make themselves feel better:mad:
    I am thinking of you and your family and hope that you find a solution to your problems soon:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    Ahmed, I'm sorry to hear about your family's experiences. I expect that they are due to the combination of competitiveness and fear that strikes when money is rare.

    I think you should stick it out living here. There is no shortage of Irish people who are not racists and would be friends to your wife and children.

    Are your family fluent in English?


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