Employment Chances from IT Higher Diploma?

up-&-at-dem

im 24 & contemplating doing this course: applied computing technology in september : http://www.ucc.ie/en/CKO08/


I already have an arts degree(2006) & higher diploma in accounting & finance (2008) but cant find any job atm.

Basically I want to know what would be my employment chances in may 2010 should i graduate from this course?(iv seen a few posts by recent IT graduates saying its tough atm to find jobs?) I presume id be at a disadvantage to graduates who would have completed a full computer science degree? & people who hav masters etc? I dont want to break my balls for the year & be in debt when i graduate & not be able to find a good job again!!

leeroybrown

I don't know anything about this particular course but a quick look at the content leaves me with the impression that it's a typical low-end conversion diploma. In my experience these diplomas are just cash cows for the Universities and don't necessarily hold much promise for the graduates. I've yet to see an IT conversion diploma that I'd recommend.

Even if there is still some work available out there you'd certainly be at a large disadvantage to most graduates of proper four year degree courses. They'll have a much better depth and breadth of study along with large practical projects and work experience. Right now even people graduating with good honours degrees will probably be struggling to get jobs.

CorkFenian

leeroybrown wrote: »

I don't know anything about this particular course but a quick look at the content leaves me with the impression that it's a typical low-end conversion diploma. In my experience these diplomas are just cash cows for the Universities and don't necessarily hold much promise for the graduates. I've yet to see an IT conversion diploma that I'd recommend.

Even if there is still some work available out there you'd certainly be at a large disadvantage to most graduates of proper four year degree courses. They'll have a much better depth and breadth of study along with large practical projects and work experience. Right now even people graduating with good honours degrees will probably be struggling to get jobs.

Would be interested to see your opinion on this..Science grad from late 90's working in IT, gone from 1st level to 3rd level support...I'm looking for something on cv to do part time, saying to colleagues that this sounds good, they all have computer science degrees though...TBH I know loads of guys doing well without one...It just sounds good to me..Any opinions would be appreciated..

http://www.computing.dcu.ie/prospective/postgraduate/gdmsc/index.html

Tom Dunne

TBH, looking at that course, it seems quite, well, fluffy. It has all the buzzwords. WTF is Systems Organisation and System Environment?

I have lectured on such conversion diplomas and to be honest, the course was more computer science focussed, with less buzz-words and more practical subjects (e.g. computer architecture, operating systems, java programming).

At the time practically all the students were actually working in IT, they just had a degree in another subject. From that perspective, they were gaining valuable experience while learning about the subject.

Just doing the course, without any hands-on experience wouldn't really give you any advantage, I believe. You may end up with an entery-level IT support role (perhaps in a Financial Services Industry), but it is very hard to say.

deRanged

Tom Dunne wrote: »

WTF is Systems Organisation and System Environment?

excellent question.
I've emailed the course coordinator for more info. will report back.

(disclosing the fact that I work in the CS dept in UCC here now, not a lecturer, doing this only because I'm curious myself. I used to demonstrate labs in the old course so wonder what the new one is like).

CorkFenian

Tom Dunne wrote: »

TBH, looking at that course, it seems quite, well, fluffy. It has all the buzzwords. WTF is Systems Organisation and System Environment?

I have lectured on such conversion diplomas and to be honest, the course was more computer science focussed, with less buzz-words and more practical subjects (e.g. computer architecture, operating systems, java programming).

At the time practically all the students were actually working in IT, they just had a degree in another subject. From that perspective, they were gaining valuable experience while learning about the subject.

Just doing the course, without any hands-on experience wouldn't really give you any advantage, I believe. You may end up with an entery-level IT support role (perhaps in a Financial Services Industry), but it is very hard to say.

Any thoughts on DCU one Tom...Have a fair bit of experience..I think personally the introduction to it all would greatly enhance that experience..Any opinions welcomed..

Tom Dunne

CorkFenian wrote: »

Any thoughts on DCU one Tom...Have a fair bit of experience..I think personally the introduction to it all would greatly enhance that experience..Any opinions welcomed..

Fire up a link and I'll have a look.

Too busy lazy to find it.

CorkFenian

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Fire up a link and I'll have a look.

Too busy lazy to find it.

Sound thanks...

http://www.computing.dcu.ie/prospect...msc/index.html

hobochris

Unless you want to get into IT for love of working with computers and technologies My advice would be think long and hard about it... many leave the sector through lack of interest, a lot of the day to day work can be sole destroying for many, especially if you lack interest.

Unless your naturally gifted or have a personal interest I would examine all your other options before making the choice.

An honors degree seems to be entry level for the industry at the moment, opportunities for people with lower qualifications I'd say are hard to come by.

Tom Dunne

CorkFenian wrote: »

Sound thanks...

http://www.computing.dcu.ie/prospect...msc/index.html

Looks fine, plus DCU would be highly regarding in the area of computing courses.

hobochris wrote: »

Unless you want to get into IT for love of working with computers and technologies My advice would be think long and hard about it... many leave the sector through lack of interest, a lot of the day to day work can be sole destroying for many, especially if you lack interest.

Unless your naturally gifted or have a personal interest I would examine all your other options before making the choice.

An honors degree seems to be entry level for the industry at the moment, opportunities for people with lower qualifications I'd say are hard to come by.

In fairness, you could say that about any industry. If you don't have some kind of interest in it, it is going to be a drudge.

hobochris

Tom Dunne wrote: »

In fairness, you could say that about any industry. If you don't have some kind of interest in it, it is going to be a drudge.

that you could.

Its just come to/been brought to my attention more so, then other industries.

kmick

I did a similar course back in 98/99 and hit the IT boom so was lucky. There were only a few areas you could get into realistically.
1) Tech Support
2) Software Testing
3) Hardware Support (i.e. working for a guy who fixes computers)
4) Junior Field Support Engineer

If those areas would interest you then go for it. However I would agree that if you are not actively interested in building PCs, software head, techie head then dont bother. For example many good developers are self taught and write software in their free time. As regards if there will be jobs available who knows. Thats crystal ball time. However there will be a shortage of IT people if the recession starts to ease up and you may be hitting the market on an upturn. If you hit the market and the downturn is still happening its down to luck.

Tom Dunne

hobochris wrote: »

that you could.

Its just come to/been brought to my attention more so, then other industries.

A few years back, a co-worker of mine made the observation that the IT industry was like the priesthood years ago - every family had at least one son (or daughter) who did IT. Not because of any love for it, but because it seemed at the time to be the better option in terms of career progression and basically money.

And I think what he said is quite true. There was a body of people who got into IT, not because they loved it, but because they did not see past the (former) big pay cheques. These types of people are not progressing as fast as the more "techie" types and as a result, are stuck in dead-end jobs they hate.

CorkFenian

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A few years back, a co-worker of mine made the observation that the IT industry was like the priesthood years ago - every family had at least one son (or daughter) who did IT. Not because of any love for it, but because it seemed at the time to be the better option in terms of career progression and basically money.

And I think what he said is quite true. There was a body of people who got into IT, not because they loved it, but because they did not see past the (former) big pay cheques. These types of people are not progressing as fast as the more "techie" types and as a result, are stuck in dead-end jobs they hate.

Very true...A lot of people have left it in past 4 years...Even people with comp science degrees are leaving....If I had no interest would have been gone a long time ago...I dont think Irish companies (in general, I have worked in places where they do)place any value on IT..That can make it hard from time to time....

hobochris

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A few years back, a co-worker of mine made the observation that the IT industry was like the priesthood years ago - every family had at least one son (or daughter) who did IT. Not because of any love for it, but because it seemed at the time to be the better option in terms of career progression and basically money.

And I think what he said is quite true. There was a body of people who got into IT, not because they loved it, but because they did not see past the (former) big pay cheques. These types of people are not progressing as fast as the more "techie" types and as a result, are stuck in dead-end jobs they hate.

That exactly why I'd recommend looking elsewhere unless you have a thing for IT.

MysticalRain

That course sounds too generic to be of much use. Employers in the current market are going to look for specific skills. You haven't stated which area of IT you are seeking to break into. If it's software development, I would suggest any for a course that specializes in that. Or if you're going down the IT support route, you might be better off finding a 1-2 year technicians course which would be of much better practical benefit to employers.

It also goes without saying that unless you have some sort of natural affinity for computers, then you should stay out of IT altogether. It's basically a vocational career that people have to have a genuine passion for in order to progress. Given how many people are leaving the IT industry because of poor job prospects, I would be focusing more on a career in finance and accounting if I were you.

up-&-at-dem

cheers for all the advice/feedaback.i had my reservations about how much de course could actually cover in one year. think il give it a skip & keep trying for a trainee accountant job

ArseBurger

They only sure fire way to get a job in 'IT' is to get an Engineering degree.

Most 'IT' qualifications (and I include Comp Sci qualifications in that) are useless from an employers perspective.

I'll always hire Engineering graduates over Comp Sci and IT simply because they tend to have a better all round exposure to 'IT' related disciplines.

Tom Dunne

ArseBurger wrote: »

They only sure fire way to get a job in 'IT' is to get an Engineering degree.

That is an incredibly broad statement.

ArseBurger wrote: »

Most 'IT' qualifications (and I include Comp Sci qualifications in that) are useless from an employers perspective.

Depends on the job, Will a Mechanical/Electrical/Electronic Engineering student really know the ins and outs of a database? Or a web server? I wouldn't imagine so.

ArseBurger wrote: »

I'll always hire Engineering graduates over Comp Sci and IT simply because they tend to have a better all round exposure to 'IT' related disciplines.

That in itself seems a contradiction. How can an engineering student have better exposure to IT disciplines than an IT student?

friday1

I've just completed the DCU course and to be honest I found it quite useful.

I agree with previous comments, I would only recommend it to certain people. You need to have a love for programming and development otherwise your wasting your time. If you have no natural ability for Programming/Problem Solving/Maths, you will spend the year struggling and hate the course. Try a bit of programming yourself before you apply.

If you do like IT, I think it will open up a whole new world of possibilities for you.


Personally I loved the course, I previously did a Business degree and was working as an accountant. I regret not doing IT from the start.

Employment Chances?

Well I'm no worse off really because I would have been laid off in January anyway, so at least it's another qualification. I don't think it can hurt my chances of employment anyway, and further studying is an option(MSC in IT).

Btw, its an intense 7-day a week course at times. You don't really get a free minute.


I would say if you had a 4 year degree you would know a lot more but this course tends to be a good start.

I know from my business degree and talking to others, most degree's are totally padded with fluffy subjects you'll never use. At least this course limits this.

Looking at the UCC course Vs. the DCU course. The UCC one appears to be complete fluff, the two courses are not really in the same league.

CorkFenian

friday1 wrote: »

I've just completed the DCU course and to be honest I found it quite useful.

I agree with previous comments, I would only recommend it to certain people. You need to have a love for programming and development otherwise your wasting your time. If you have no natural ability for Programming/Problem Solving/Maths, you will spend the year struggling and hate the course. Try a bit of programming yourself before you apply.

If you do like IT, I think it will open up a whole new world of possibilities for you.


Personally I loved the course, I previously did a Business degree and was working as an accountant. I regret not doing IT from the start.

Employment Chances?

Well I'm no worse off really because I would have been laid off in January anyway, so at least it's another qualification. I don't think it can hurt my chances of employment anyway, and further studying is an option(MSC in IT).

Btw, its an intense 7-day a week course at times. You don't really get a free minute.


I would say if you had a 4 year degree you would know a lot more but this course tends to be a good start.

I know from my business degree and talking to others, most degree's are totally padded with fluffy subjects you'll never use. At least this course limits this.

Looking at the UCC course Vs. the DCU course. The UCC one appears to be complete fluff, the two courses are not really in the same league.

If doing it would do the 2yr part time option..Cant afford not to work..Its 2 day week and one saturday a month...I am interested in programming, have done VB which is the std I guess..I dont want to work as one but it would help in a lot of areas, but overall I think the course would complement a lot of projects and work i have done in the past..How much of the focus did u find on programming??

friday1

I not too well up on VB, but we did a lot of Java in core programming modules(Object Orientated Programming and Advanced Programming) and in modules (Ecommerce, Networks etc.) that included some java programming. Basically if you didn't get the Java stuff in the beginning, you were in trouble for the rest of the course. Just a warning for any of these courses.

deRanged

I thought I'd report back on my attempts to get more info on the specific modules in the UCC course. total failure
the module descriptions are not up on the calendar yet so I couldn't get any more info on them at all - I suspect hence the fluffy descriptions.

friday1

i think they are the brochure you download, except for the programming modules.