Your ideal XV for the Autumn Internationals

Theus

Considering that barr the last three lions matches, the Irish International Rugby Calendar is now finished, what is your ideal XV for the Autumn Internationals against Fiji, Australia and South Africa?

After massive success in the Churchill Cup, the Heineken Cup, the Mangers League and ofc the Six Nations, there is a lot to consider for the teams.

The main question is that will Kidney want to use the these matches for further development of his younger players or will he wont to make a statement to the SH teams and the other 6N teams about the continuing quality of his side.

My Ideal Squad:

Front Row
1. Cian Healy, Marcus Horan - With Marcus Horan beginning to become old, we need to see how Healy can front up on the full international stage

2. Jerry Flannery, Rory Best - Flannery was hugely missed on the Lions tour for his excellent lineout throwing, and Best was unlucky not to get a call up.

3. John Hayes, Tony Buckley - Buckley has played marginally better than Mike Ross during the Summer Tour, and had an excellent Churchill Cup, but John Hayes is still a much better scrummager (Although that isn't hard with Buckley)

Second Row

4. Donnacha Ryan, Donnacha O'Callaghan - Ryan was very dominant in the lineouts at the CC and showed great leadership qualities, while the proven combination of DOC and POC will prove vital against the Wallabies and the Springboks.

5. Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner - Granted that POC so for hasn't had the greatest Lions Tour, hopefully he will be able to refind his excellent form in the 6N. Toner's massive 6"11' might prove vital as an impact sub in the two important matches

Back Row

6. Stephen Ferris, Neil Best - Ferris was the on-form flanker of the 6N, and his newly discovered speed will be vital. Although very temperamental, Best had a good 6N and played will for Northampton this year.

7. David Wallace, Niall Ronan/Shane Jennings - Wally had a very good 6N, and had played will for Munster all year. Ronan played very well in the CC and has also played superbly for Munster. Jennings had a very good end to the season for Leinster, and playing with Elsom has seemed to help him a lot.

8. Jamie Heaslip, Denis Leamy - Heaslip has a fantastic 6N and a great season for Leinster, and his ball carrying and hard tackling has greatly helped the Lions. Leamy got unlucky with the injury, and will be a fantastic impact sub

Half-Back

9. Tomas O'Leary, Peter Stringer/Isaac Boss - TOL got very unlucky with the injury for the lions tour, and was instrumental in the GS success. Stringer played well for Munster when he played, and was fantastic in the Match against Scotland. Boss has surprised me in the CC, and played excellently.

10. Johnathan Sexton, Ronan O'Gara - Sexton played excellently in the H-Cup Semi and Final, and had a fantastic CC. O'Gara is beginning to show his age, and we need to give Sexton full International Experience if he is to inevitably be our next No. 10

Centre

12. Gordon D'Arcy, Ian Whitten - D'Arcy has come back strongly after his horrible injury, and played well for Ireland and the Baa-Baas. Whitten impressed me against Canada and the USA, and made some excellent line breaks.

13. BOD, Fergus McFadden/Keith Earls - BOD is God. McFadden played well in the CC winning the MVP (lol) of the Tournament, and Earls was good for Munster all season.

Back Three

11. Luke Fitzgerald, Johne Murphy - Fitzgerald has played excellently all season, and was unlucky not to play in the first test. Murphy was good in the CC, although he was a bit shaky for Leicester in the SF of the H-Cup.

14. Tommy Bowe - I actually can’t think of anybody else who can play at the right-wing nearly as well as him, so he will be the only one simply because I'm too lazy to dig up a name.

15. Geordan Murphy, Rob Kearney - Murph has really impressed me in the GP and the HC, and deserves a start. Kearney has played well for the Lions, but still hasn't regained the form he had prior to the 6N.

My 22 for the First match against Australia

1. Cian Healy
2. Jerry Flannery
3. John Hayes
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Healsip
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Johnathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Geordan Murphy

16. Rory Best
17. Tony Buckley
18. Donnacha Ryan
19. Neil Best
20. Peter Stringer
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Rob Kearney

DONT BURN ME ALIVE!

Stev_o

Chances are TOL won't be back for the international series and it's pretty much the last place anyone would want him to be in. I think after Cipriani's injury we learned that you can't throw someone into full on internationals after such a serious injury. He'll be far better regaining his form with Munster then trying to find it on the pitch against the Aussies and Saffers. Honestly i wouldn't want Stringer anywhere near the squad his time his gone and i think we should go with either Franky Murphy or Eoin Reddan.

bleg

Theus wrote: »

My 22 for the First match against Australia

1. Cian Healy
2. Jerry Flannery
3. John Hayes
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Healsip
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Johnathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Geordan Murphy

16. Rory Best
17. Tony Buckley
18. Donnacha Ryan
19. Neil Best
20. Peter Stringer
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Rob Kearney

DONT BURN ME ALIVE!

horan in the front row, healy doesn't have enough experience yet, dunno about even having him on the bench as buckley would get that place.

o gara is still ahead of sexton. sexton on bench.

kearney to start, earls on the bench, murphy not to get a look in.

spoon

it all depends on what kind of attitude is taken towards the games. Rankings aren't really a concern this time, so i think we should take the chance to give younger lads some big game experience against top class teams.

zAbbo

I think it will be very interesting to see how we lineup in the Autumn, much will depend on how players are playing (or not) at provincial level.

I think you've got most of the front runners, but I'd add in Ryan Caldwell, Sean Cronin and Sean O'Brien in the forwards - 3 very exciting prospects.

While in the backs we have a great supply of talented footballers, and hopefully at least 1 can emerge into the starting 22.

If we're looking at 2 years before the RWC'11 - that's around 21-22 games, I'd like to see those games used to develop backups in the key positions of front row, no. 8 and out half.

Personally, I'd drop Murphy and work at developing Felix Jones & Rob Kearney at full back

GymJim

Theus wrote: »

Considering that barr the last three lions matches, the Irish International Rugby Calendar is now finished, what is your ideal XV for the Autumn Internationals against Fiji, Australia and South Africa?

After massive success in the Churchill Cup, the Heineken Cup, the Mangers League and ofc the Six Nations, there is a lot to consider for the teams.

The main question is that will Kidney want to use the these matches for further development of his younger players or will he wont to make a statement to the SH teams and the other 6N teams about the continuing quality of his side.

My Ideal Squad:

Front Row
1. Cian Healy, Marcus Horan - With Marcus Horan beginning to become old, we need to see how Healy can front up on the full international stage

2. Jerry Flannery, Rory Best - Flannery was hugely missed on the Lions tour for his excellent lineout throwing, and Best was unlucky not to get a call up.

3. John Hayes, Tony Buckley - Buckley has played marginally better than Mike Ross during the Summer Tour, and had an excellent Churchill Cup, but John Hayes is still a much better scrummager (Although that isn't hard with Buckley)

Second Row

4. Donnacha Ryan, Donnacha O'Callaghan - Ryan was very dominant in the lineouts at the CC and showed great leadership qualities, while the proven combination of DOC and POC will prove vital against the Wallabies and the Springboks. I'm a Munster man and find it amazing you actually think an AIL player deserves to be in ahead of HEC winning captain Cullen. This makes no sense. Yes he did well against Georgia, Canada and poor Saxons but that hardly means he's ready to face Sh sides...I mean he's even behind MOD still in Munster.

5. Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner - Granted that POC so for hasn't had the greatest Lions Tour, hopefully he will be able to refind his excellent form in the 6N. Toner's massive 6"11' might prove vital as an impact sub in the two important matches

Back Row

6. Stephen Ferris, Neil Best - Ferris was the on-form flanker of the 6N, and his newly discovered speed will be vital. Although very temperamental, Best had a good 6N and played will for Northampton this year. While I think Best is a good player I'd see it far more likely that Leamy would move to 6 if Ferris was unavailable. Also think Sean O'Brien will push for spot here and Best being in GP will count against him.

7. David Wallace, Niall Ronan/Shane Jennings - Wally had a very good 6N, and had played will for Munster all year. Ronan played very well in the CC and has also played superbly for Munster. Jennings had a very good end to the season for Leinster, and playing with Elsom has seemed to help him a lot. I like Ronan but have to be fair to Jennings and even Pollock who are nailed on starters for province in HEC. I know it'll be hard for him to get past Wally but if he's good enough Munster will play him...perhaps reshaping of backrow to phase out Quinlan may help him.

8. Jamie Heaslip, Denis Leamy - Heaslip has a fantastic 6N and a great season for Leinster, and his ball carrying and hard tackling has greatly helped the Lions. Leamy got unlucky with the injury, and will be a fantastic impact sub

Half-Back

9. Tomas O'Leary, Peter Stringer/Isaac Boss - TOL got very unlucky with the injury for the lions tour, and was instrumental in the GS success. Stringer played well for Munster when he played, and was fantastic in the Match against Scotland. Boss has surprised me in the CC, and played excellently. No Reddan? He is a lot better a scrum half than Boss.

10. Johnathan Sexton, Ronan O'Gara - Sexton played excellently in the H-Cup Semi and Final, and had a fantastic CC. O'Gara is beginning to show his age, and we need to give Sexton full International Experience if he is to inevitably be our next No. 10 All I'd say here is Sexton needs to seriously sort out his indiscipline issues before getting in here. For me it's still ROG and give Sexton 20 mins at least v Aus and SA. Starter against Fiji though.

Centre

12. Gordon D'Arcy, Ian Whitten - D'Arcy has come back strongly after his horrible injury, and played well for Ireland and the Baa-Baas. Whitten impressed me against Canada and the USA, and made some excellent line breaks. We seem to lack strength in depth here really don't we? Whitten really not ready yet.

13. BOD, Fergus McFadden/Keith Earls - BOD is God. McFadden played well in the CC winning the MVP (lol) of the Tournament, and Earls was good for Munster all season. At this stage of careers it'd have to be Cave next in line here. Would suspect Earls will get some gametime here and on wing over series. McFadden is very good yes but think he should solidify position as first back-up to BOD (even in HEC) in Leinster first.

Back Three

11. Luke Fitzgerald, Johne Murphy - Fitzgerald has played excellently all season, and was unlucky not to play in the first test. Murphy was good in the CC, although he was a bit shaky for Leicester in the SF of the H-Cup. Murphy can't pass off left hand and he's a left winger. I would have serious question marks over him defensively too.

14. Tommy Bowe - I actually can’t think of anybody else who can play at the right-wing nearly as well as him, so he will be the only one simply because I'm too lazy to dig up a name. Likely Earls will get a game here over series.

15. Geordan Murphy, Rob Kearney - Murph has really impressed me in the GP and the HC, and deserves a start. Kearney has played well for the Lions, but still hasn't regained the form he had prior to the 6N. Have you ever really thought about how consistently poor Murphy has been for Ireland over the years? Yes he'll have one good run after coming on in a game each year (i.e. Wales game 2 years ago) but will then miss 3 tackles near line and fire out 2 intercepted passes. And to start ahead of Kearney...really?! :eek:

My 22 for the First match against Australia

1. Cian Healy
2. Jerry Flannery
3. John Hayes
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Healsip
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Johnathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Geordan Murphy

16. Rory Best
17. Tony Buckley
18. Donnacha Ryan
19. Neil Best
20. Peter Stringer
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Rob Kearney

DONT BURN ME ALIVE!

My 22 would have to be:

Horan (Healy to get a lot of game time though)
Flannery
Hayes
DOC
POC
Ferris
Wally
Heaslip
TOL
ROG (Sexton to get lots of game time aswell)
Fitz
Darcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

R.Best
Healy
Cullen
Leamy
Stringer
Sexton
Earls

Sorry don't mean to be too harsh on selection but the whole thing of people still thinking Geordan Murphy deserves to start really bugs me.

Overall we have good strength in depth don't we.

Size=everything

1.Healy
2.Flannery
3.Hayes
4.DOC
5.POC
6.Ferris
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan (Unless TOL is back)
10.Sexton
11.Fitzgerald
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

Riskymove

I am looking a bit further ahead as for me it should be about the World Cup in 2011, just two years time

players who are unlikely to be around at that point should basically be phased out over next year or so with their replacements/back-ups brought in to give game time

that would include the Bull (God forgive me), and Malcom O'Kelly most obviously

ROG and stringer will be 34 and may still be choices but unlikely so
O'gara to make way for sexton (over time with ROG still as first replacement) and O'Leary/Reddan to be scrum half choices

Horan also 34 so may be better as impact sub


So I guess what I see as the team for the 2011 WC and next choices


1. C. Healy
2. J Flannery
3. Buckley who else is around? court?
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary/Reddan
10. Sexton/ROG
11. Bowe
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Lukey Fitz
15. Kearney

Others for bench/game time

R Best
Toner
D Ryan
N Best
Earles
F Jones
J Murphy
C henry
N Ronan

thomond2006

TOL will be lucky to be back for Six Nations 2010 tbh. :(

subfreq

If Sexton keeps racking up yellows I would be surprised if he gets many chances at International level. He seems to have an abrasive problem hard wired to his personality.

I can't actually remember the last time an International fly half got time in the bin.

Their is a wealth of emerging back line talent in Ireland and he could find someone else leap frogs him with a 2 year development frame work before the World Cup.

I think JS will get his chance in the Autumn but any time in the bin and it could disappear just as quickly.

Career Yellow Cards For Province and Country(Including 'A' Teams)

Dan Carter - 0
Matt Giteau - 0
Stephen Larkham - 0
Johnny Wilkinson - 0
Stephen Jones - 0

Johnathan Sexton - 3
ROG - 3 (Maybe it's an Irish thing!! Didn't know this but in the interest of fairness have to include it.)

GymJim

Riskymove wrote: »

I am looking a bit further ahead as for me it should be about the World Cup in 2011, just two years time

players who are unlikely to be around at that point should basically be phased out over next year or so with their replacements/back-ups brought in to give game time

that would include the Bull (God forgive me), and Malcom O'Kelly most obviously

ROG and stringer will be 34 and may still be choices but unlikely so
O'gara to make way for sexton (over time with ROG still as first replacement) and O'Leary/Reddan to be scrum half choices

Horan also 34 so may be better as impact sub


So I guess what I see as the team for the 2011 WC and next choices


1. C. Healy
2. J Flannery
3. Buckley who else is around? court?
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary/Reddan
10. Sexton/ROG
11. Bowe
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Lukey Fitz
15. Kearney

Others for bench/game time

R Best
Toner
D Ryan
N Best
Earles
F Jones
J Murphy
C henry

I understand where you're coming. Perhaps I was wrong with front row selection. The more I think of it the SA and Aus front rows are not that amazing so I would think perhaps starting Buckley and Healy may be worthwhile (even if Georgia game wasn't exactly a shining example of their front row partnership with Best).

Still though I wonder would Mushy get a doing from The Beast like Vickery did. Suppose depends on who ref is and how much time Smal can get with him before then. I think a game for Healy against Smit and one for Buckley against Baxter would do them no harm confidence wise.

As for rest of team pretty much agree except think easing Sexton in a bit more would be best than just throwing him in against Aus and SA. See how Fiji game goes for him at least. Also think we should wait for Jones to establish himself at Munster first before calling him up.

Dev7

My Test Team for Australia:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O' Driscoll
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O' Gara
9. Reddan
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Ferris
5. O' Connell
4. O' Callaghan
3. Hayes
2. Flannery
1. Healy

16. Best
17. Horan
18. Caldwell
19. Leamy
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Earls

My Team for Fiji:

15. Earls
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan
8. Leamy
7. Jennings
6. N. Best
5. O' Connell
4. Caldwell
3. Buckley/Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Ronan
20. Stringer
21. Wallace
22. McFadden

Size=everything

Dev7 wrote: »

My Test Team for Australia:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O' Gara
9. Reddan
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Ferris
5. O' Connell
4. O' Callaghan
3. Hayes
2. Flannery
1. Healy

16. Best
17. Horan
18. Caldwell
19. Leamy
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Earls

My Team for Fiji:

15. Earls
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan
8. Leamy
7. Jennings
6. N. Best
5. O' Connell
4. Caldwell
3. Buckley/Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Ronan
20. Stringer
21. Wallace
22. McFadden

LOL no O'Driscoll?

anonymous_joe

subfreq wrote: »

If Sexton keeps racking up yellows I would be surprised if he gets many chances at International level. He seems to have an abrasive problem hard wired to his personality.

I can't actually remember the last time an International fly half got time in the bin.

Ronan O'Gara during the 6 Nations against Italy.

Theus

Dev7 wrote: »

My Test Team for Australia:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O' Gara
9. Reddan
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Ferris
5. O' Connell
4. O' Callaghan
3. Hayes
2. Flannery
1. Healy

16. Best
17. Horan
18. Caldwell
19. Leamy
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Earls

My Team for Fiji:

15. Earls
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan
8. Leamy
7. Jennings
6. N. Best
5. O' Connell
4. Caldwell
3. Buckley/Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Ronan
20. Stringer
21. Wallace
22. McFadden

I realised Earls was good, but I didnt know he could be on field and on the bench at the same time :P

smurphy29

Very early for this lads, the games are about 4 months away and a lot can happen between now and then. Form should generally dictate selection so who knows who'll be pulling up trees in the first couple of months of the Magners and Heiny games. Having said that...

Two major considerations should come into it.

1. Post-Lions fatigue
2. World Cup will be appearing on the horizon

Both of these mean it's good sense not to ask too much from any Lions around the 30yrs+ mark in these games. The lads coming back from the Lions are going to be knackered. And it's time to start thinking about developing the panel a bit more. This means we should look at a few different options to POC, Donncha, BOD, ROG, Hayes, D'arce and Wally. Not dropping all at once, mind, but rotate these seven across the three tests. We need to start looking for alternatives in a number of positions. By the time these fixtures roll around I fully expect Jennings and Sean O'Brien to be banging the door down to play at 7. Earls, presuming the Lions tour doesn't take too much out of him, needs to get test match game time. Healy must start at loose-head, he's better than Horan at this stage. Paddy Wallace was unlucky in the 6N, and deserves another look at 12. Toner is improving and should get a look. And if - and it is an if - the likes of McFadden and Felix Jones are getting game time (they should have a good chance with the Lions likely to be rested in the first few Magners games) and showing that they merit it, they should definitely be included, to get a taste for the training paddock anyway.

Ciaran-Irl

Riskymove wrote: »

I am looking a bit further ahead as for me it should be about the World Cup in 2011, just two years time

players who are unlikely to be around at that point should basically be phased out over next year or so with their replacements/back-ups brought in to give game time

that would include the Bull (God forgive me), and Malcom O'Kelly most obviously

ROG and stringer will be 34 and may still be choices but unlikely so
O'gara to make way for sexton (over time with ROG still as first replacement) and O'Leary/Reddan to be scrum half choices

Horan also 34 so may be better as impact sub


So I guess what I see as the team for the 2011 WC and next choices


1. C. Healy
2. J Flannery
3. Buckley who else is around? court?
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary/Reddan
10. Sexton/ROG
11. Bowe
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Lukey Fitz
15. Kearney

Others for bench/game time

R Best
Toner
D Ryan
N Best
Earles
F Jones
J Murphy
C henry
N Ronan

Wallace will be 36... Hardly the right age for a number 7 in a World Cup.

Dev7

Size=everything wrote: »

LOL no O'Driscoll?

You'l notice Earls is also no. 22! lol my bad Bod of course in at 13.

Riskymove

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Wallace will be 36... Hardly the right age for a number 7 in a World Cup.

35 but in any event you are probably right....in that case Ronan hopefully to develop into new No. 7

nerophis

subfreq wrote: »

I can't actually remember the last time an International fly half got time in the bin.

ROG got binned against Italy this year

http://m.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/0215/italy_ireland_matchtracker.html

Riskymove

smurphy29 wrote: »

Two major considerations should come into it.

1. Post-Lions fatigue
2. World Cup will be appearing on the horizon

in fairness its 4 months from the end of the lions til the autumn internationals and professional athletes like these should be back

there will have been 2 months of Magners league and the first two pool games of the HC, I can't see Lions missing all that

Size=everything

You know we could still throw out a young side with the WC in mind and still have a good chance of winning the Autumn internationals such is our depth. I personally wouldn't shed a tear if

1.Healy
2.Flannery
3.Buckley
4.POC
5.DOC
6.Ferris
7.Jennings
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Fitzgerald
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

all started.

Size=everything

Riskymove wrote: »

35 but in any event you are probably right....in that case Ronan hopefully to develop into new No. 7

Shane Jennings is ahead of Ronan in the packing order IMO

Ciaran-Irl

smurphy29 wrote: »

Very early for this lads, the games are about 4 months away and a lot can happen between now and then. Form should generally dictate selection so who knows who'll be pulling up trees in the first couple of months of the Magners and Heiny games. Having said that...

Two major considerations should come into it.

1. Post-Lions fatigue
2. World Cup will be appearing on the horizon

Both of these mean it's good sense not to ask too much from any Lions around the 30yrs+ mark in these games. The lads coming back from the Lions are going to be knackered. And it's time to start thinking about developing the panel a bit more. This means we should look at a few different options to POC, Donncha, BOD, ROG, Hayes, D'arce and Wally. Not dropping all at once, mind, but rotate these seven across the three tests. We need to start looking for alternatives in a number of positions. By the time these fixtures roll around I fully expect Jennings and Sean O'Brien to be banging the door down to play at 7. Earls, presuming the Lions tour doesn't take too much out of him, needs to get test match game time. Healy must start at loose-head, he's better than Horan at this stage. Paddy Wallace was unlucky in the 6N, and deserves another look at 12. Toner is improving and should get a look. And if - and it is an if - the likes of McFadden and Felix Jones are getting game time (they should have a good chance with the Lions likely to be rested in the first few Magners games) and showing that they merit it, they should definitely be included, to get a taste for the training paddock anyway.

Paddy Wallace is the same age as BOD, but agree with everything else you say here.

We will without a doubt need to rest some of the lads that were with the Lions. We should be looking at newer combinations, especially of younger players. No point in playing Hayes up front. Would like to see Jennings at 7. TOL can't play these games, and Stringer and ROG is a wasted opportunity. Needs to be Sexton & Reddan.

Would stick with the Bowe, Kearney, Fitzgerald, D'arcy backline, but bring in Earls for BOD, who I think will need to be rested after the Lions.

I also think Leo Cullen deserves a run in the second row.

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Tony Buckley
4. Leo Cullen
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Shane Jennings
8. Jamie Healsip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Johnathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Keith Earls
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Jerry Flannery
17. Mike Ross
18. Donnacha Ryan / Maybe Toner
19. Neil Best
20. Peter Stringer
21. McFadden
22. Geordan Murphy

subfreq

nerophis wrote: »

ROG got binned against Italy this year

http://m.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/0215/italy_ireland_matchtracker.html

Yeah. It wasn't until I looked up his stats, so I can't hide from it. Just don't think it bodes well for a young player trying to break though in the fly half position.

On the other hand I am a firm believer that in a rugby sense he is certainly got the talent and is earning a chance. I would be cautious though that he learns to curb this side of his game to take it to a higher level.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

Shane Jennings is ahead of Ronan in the packing order IMO

I suppose I have Ronan in mind with a view to the future, Jennings himself will be 30 but thats still fine so perhaps jennings at 7 with Ronan as next choice

Size=everything

Riskymove wrote: »

I suppose I have Ronan in mind with a view to the future, Jennings himself will be 30 but thats still fine so perhaps jennings at 7 with Ronan as next choice

and Niall Ronan will be 29 not much of a difference if your looking for the future.

Future 7s are Pollock and Sean O'Brien (if he moves to 7)

Riskymove

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I also think Leo Cullen deserves a run in the second row.

with all respect to him cause he's a good player I dont see much point in introducing an older player than the regular choices

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

and Niall Ronan will be 29 not much of a difference if your looking for the future.

fair enough Ronan is older than i thought...but Ronan and jennings would be the two for the world cup I think

Ciaran-Irl

Riskymove wrote: »

with all respect to him cause he's a good player I dont see much point in introducing an older player than the regular choices

Dunno... He'll be 33 in the World Cup. Not old for a second row. We're looking towards the World cup and nothing else IMO. Things like the Churchill cup are for testing players for the more distant future.

Jackz

subfreq wrote: »

On the other hand I am a firm believer that in a rugby sense he is certainly got the talent and is earning a chance. I would be cautious though that he learns to curb this side of his game to take it to a higher level.

And the likes of shouting in O'Gara's face won't help him in the Ireland camp.

Riskymove

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Dunno... He'll be 33 in the World Cup. Not old for a second row. We're looking towards the World cup and nothing else IMO. Things like the Churchill cup are for testing players for the more distant future.

I suppose i just see POC and DOC as the first choice 2nd rows and i'd rather have one of the yonger developing players on bench for game-time rather than cullen

sure if POC or DOC were injured or otherwise unavailable I could see Cullen going in there

Ciaran-Irl

Riskymove wrote: »

I suppose i just see POC and DOC as the first choice 2nd rows and i'd rather have one of the yonger developing players on bench for game-time rather than cullen

sure if POC or DOC were injured or otherwise unavailable I could see Cullen going in there

Yeah, I wouldn't be breaking up the partnership for the world cup unless there was a reason. But what if one or the other was badly injured come world cup time and we had never tried another player at test intensity?

Size=everything

Jackz wrote: »

And the likes of shouting in O'Gara's face won't help him in the Ireland camp.

Wont go into details but O'Gara hasn't been an angel to Sexton whenever they've met. Far from it.

Podge_irl

Riskymove wrote: »

fair enough Ronan is older than i thought...but Ronan and jennings would be the two for the world cup I think

Ronan tends to get overpowered at HEC level, never mind international level. He's a good player, but he's not really one for the hard slog. I think he just lacks the physicality. He may get a run out in the Autumn, but I would imagine Wallace and Jennings would be ahead of him.

I'm also not particularly sold on the Earls at centre idea. I think his best position is back 3 and he should be worked on there. Assuming he gets some game time I think McFadden is a better prospect in the centre.

Just don't think it bodes well for a young player trying to break though in the fly half position.

Leinster in general seem to have an issue with yellow cards. Conters wasn't necessarily the best role model in that regard! He would certainly want to look at that though.

Size=everything

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Yeah, I wouldn't be breaking up the partnership for the world cup unless there was a reason. But what if one or the other was badly injured come world cup time and we had never tried another player at test intensity?

I'm afraid its just too late for Cullen.

Size=everything

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm also not particularly sold on the Earls at centre idea. I think his best position is back 3 and he should be worked on there. Assuming he gets some game time I think McFadden is a better prospect in the centre.

My main gripe is that our three hottest prospects, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Earls are all natural Full backs (Though Fitzgerald has done well on the wing) And thats not even including Felix Jones who looks to make his mark next year. Were always spoilt for full backs! What we really need now is a 12.

buck65

1. Healy 2. Flannery 3. Hayes 4. DOC 5. POC 6. Ferris 7. Wallace 8. Heaslip
9. O Leary 10. O Gara 11. Fitzgerald 12. D'arcy 13. O Driscoll 14. Bowe 15. Kearney
Bench - Stringer, Horan, Best, Earls, Sexton, Jennings, Murphy.
First 15 picks itself.

spoon

Healy
Flannery
Buckley
DOC
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip

Reddan (if Tomás isn't fit)
O'Gara (Sexton on the bench to come on)
Fitz
D'Arcy
BOD (Earls on the bench to come on)
Bowe
Kearney


I'm of the opinion that if a player isn't going to be on the scene for the 2011 WC they shouldn't be selected, we need to start building our team towards the WC.

smurphy29

I don't know where the love for Buckley is coming from, he shouldn't be anywhere near the international set-up. Let's not get too excited by the Churchill Cup, nice as it is to see the fringe players doing so well. Mushy Buckley has never looked a test player, and shows no sign of eradicating the flaws in his game. Mike Ross, if he can bring his Quins form to Leinster, should get the nod. Poor Hayes - he shouldn't be asked to play in these games. Is there ANYTHING to be said for giving the great man a rest??

Also, Niall Ronan appears over-hyped here. He's a grand lad with an eye for the try-line, but at 27 he's found his level - Magners League. Jennings is the first choice openside in a team which has repeatedly proved itself to be outstanding at the breakdown. He was outstanding the HEC final and deserves his chance to stake a claim on the Ireland No.7 shirt. Is there ANYTHING to be said for having the option of a genuine openside??

buck65

spoon wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that if a player isn't going to be on the scene for the 2011 WC they shouldn't be selected, we need to start building our team towards the WC.

I don't really agree, we need to build our team for 6 nations in 2010, really looking beyond that is pointless yet. Wholesale changes for the sake of it only unsettles a team. Next autumn (2010)we should be looking at finally replacing Hayes, possibly O Gara and O Driscoll, Wallace etc. There is certainly (Hayes apart) another 2 sesaons in those guys.
I would expect Healy, Sexton, Earls to get some game time in November but apart from that who else is international standard?

Amazotheamazing

smurphy29 wrote: »

I don't know where the love for Buckley is coming from, he shouldn't be anywhere near the international set-up. Let's not get too excited by the Churchill Cup, nice as it is to see the fringe players doing so well. Mushy Buckley has never looked a test player, and shows no sign of eradicating the flaws in his game. Mike Ross, if he can bring his Quins form to Leinster, should get the nod. Poor Hayes - he shouldn't be asked to play in these games. Is there ANYTHING to be said for giving the great man a rest??

Also, Niall Ronan appears over-hyped here. He's a grand lad with an eye for the try-line, but at 27 he's found his level - Magners League. Jennings is the first choice openside in a team which has repeatedly proved itself to be outstanding at the breakdown. He was outstanding the HEC final and deserves his chance to stake a claim on the Ireland No.7 shirt. Is there ANYTHING to be said for having the option of a genuine openside??

While I agree to an extent about the above about Buckley, I really don't think Mike Ross is anything too special either. He's good in the scrum, but he offers very little else. Ideally a player like Tim Ryan would have been developed ahead of either of them.

Jennings isn't the answer any more than Ronan is, imo. I'd love to see chance being taken on O'Brien, or Pollock. Jennings is inconsistent in a position you need consistency. Ronan is great in games against weaker teams, but a top level team makes him look ordinary.

spoon

buck65 wrote: »

I don't really agree, we need to build our team for 6 nations in 2010, really looking beyond that is pointless yet. Wholesale changes for the sake of it only unsettles a team. Next autumn (2010)we should be looking at finally replacing Hayes, possibly O Gara and O Driscoll, Wallace etc. There is certainly (Hayes apart) another 2 sesaons in those guys.
I would expect Healy, Sexton, Earls to get some game time in November but apart from that who else is international standard?

I think we need to be playing our likely internation regulars of 2011 so they get as much experience as possible. I think leaving it late is a dangerous game. I'll be hugely disapointed if the Bull is used every game again, for example (as much as i love that guy).

Chucky the tree

Looking to the WC 12 is by far are biggest trouble position for us in terms of depth.

Amazotheamazing

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Looking to the WC 12 is by far are biggest trouble position for us in terms of depth.

McFadden could make a go of 12, imo.

GymJim

buck65 wrote: »

1. Healy 2. Flannery 3. Hayes 4. DOC 5. POC 6. Ferris 7. Wallace 8. Heaslip
9. O Leary 10. O Gara 11. Fitzgerald 12. D'arcy 13. O Driscoll 14. Bowe 15. Kearney
Bench - Stringer, Horan, Best, Earls, Sexton, Jennings, Murphy.
First 15 picks itself.

Is Geordan Murphy going to come on in the 2nd row so?

GymJim

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

While I agree to an extent about the above about Buckley, I really don't think Mike Ross is anything too special either. He's good in the scrum, but he offers very little else. Ideally a player like Tim Ryan would have been developed ahead of either of them.

Exactly. He is a very good scrummager but he seriously needs to turn a good bit of his fat into muscle to be able to get around the pitch better. He is absolutely useless in the loose as he's so slow at getting around the pitch and he seems to have no energy left to clear out rucks when he reaches them either.

One would hope training with Healy will get him in good shape going forward as if he could offer anything in the loose then he'd be our best option at 3 by a mile.

stephen_n

A possible centre combination that I would like to see tried even though it would be to say the least unconventional would be to move BOD to 12 to accomodate Earls outside him giving us extra pace and attacking flair in the 13 channel while still keeping our greatest player in the team and I don't think BOD would have any problem adjusting to 12!

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

A possible centre combination that I would like to see tried even though it would be to say the least unconventional would be to move BOD to 12 to accomodate Earls outside him giving us extra pace and attacking flair in the 13 channel while still keeping our greatest player in the team and I don't think BOD would have any problem adjusting to 12!

And the logic behind moving our best player out of his favoured position to accommodate a positionally iffy player in the most important backline position defensively is?

Earls' best bet to get in the team is in the back 3. He's good enough to put serious pressure on Kearney/Fitz and possibly get in ahead of them. He'd certainly be next in line I would imagine. None of McFadden, Earls or Cave are good enough to oust BOD and they won't be anytime soon. And I still think McFadden would be the better bet there anyway.

Dev7

McFaddens been playing 12 all year for Leinster A with Eoin O Malley outside him, so i wouldnt mind seeing him there a bit next season. Could be Darcys successor.

P_1

My €0.02 worth...

22 v Australia

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Best
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. Best
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Earls


22 v Fiji

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Buckley
4. Cullen (c)
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. Ronan
8. Muldoon
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. Cave
14. Earls
15. Jones

16. Cronin
17. Ross
18. Caldwell
19. O'Brien
20. O'Donoughoe
21. Keatley
22. Carr

22 v South Africa

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Best
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. Best
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Jones


Should give the management a decent look at various options around the squad.