Debris in tap water... help/advice needed!

gravedigger

Hi, I posted a thread a number of weeks ago about this, but I just want to follow up with this last thread with some new info, I'd be delighted if someone could tell me what might be wrong.

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains, and when that is run, the pressure on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both running off the same feed.

Now, if you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the outside tap is running, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is covered in this debris, whatever it is.

I'm just so confused as to why the debris would only come in when two or more taps are running off the mains? Occasionally we see one or two grains of this debris when just running the kitchen tap, but its much worse when there are other demand sources. FYI, I live in Dublin, mains water supply, so this is a very unusual situation.

ART6

gravedigger wrote: »

Hi, I posted a thread a number of weeks ago about this, but I just want to follow up with this last thread with some new info, I'd be delighted if someone could tell me what might be wrong.

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains, and when that is run, the pressure on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both running off the same feed.

Now, if you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the outside tap is running, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is covered in this debris, whatever it is.

I'm just so confused as to why the debris would only come in when two or more taps are running off the mains? Occasionally we see one or two grains of this debris when just running the kitchen tap, but its much worse when there are other demand sources. FYI, I live in Dublin, mains water supply, so this is a very unusual situation.

Since the pressure drops when you have two taps open then you are reaching the maximum capacity of the pipe from the mains, and that will flush out any dirt in the pipe. Why there is dirt there is another matter. You might have a steel pipe from the mains to your house (water barrel) -- older houses often did, and it is probably rust particles that are being flushed out. If it's a plastic pipe then you might be getting dirt from the mains, especially if yours happens to be the last house on the line, although I would think that's fairly unlikely.

I guess the first thing to check is if your inlet pipe is metal. If it is, then the only solution would be to replace it with plastic, but that could be a very big job. Probably not worth doing unless you have a burst. The cheaper alternative would be to fit a filter.

gravedigger

The feeder pipe is black plastic, and the house was built about 30 years ago, so that would seem to rule out any steel being used.

It must be dirt from the mains, but could it also be a dead leg? That also seems unlikely in the pipe run from road to kitchen sink. Is there any way to check for that possibility do you know?

ART6

gravedigger wrote: »

The feeder pipe is black plastic, and the house was built about 30 years ago, so that would seem to rule out any steel being used.

It must be dirt from the mains, but could it also be a dead leg? That also seems unlikely in the pipe run from road to kitchen sink. Is there any way to check for that possibility do you know?

A dead leg is unlikely as you say. The fact remains that when you subject the supply to its maximum flow you get sediment. Do your neighbors have a similar problem? I would suggest speaking to your water supplier about it since you are entitled to have clean supply of potable water. That's what you pay taxes for.:(

gravedigger

ART6 wrote: »

A dead leg is unlikely as you say. The fact remains that when you subject the supply to its maximum flow you get sediment. Do your neighbors have a similar problem? I would suggest speaking to your water supplier about it since you are entitled to have clean supply of potable water. That's what you pay taxes for.:(

A couple of years ago I rang them up and found my branch of the council's water supply very tough to deal with. They flushed the supply once or twice, it made a remarkable difference in terms of water clarity etc, but it just ended up going back to crappy normal after a week or so. They refused to take any further action, and my neighbours don't want to know about it. We just seem to be located at a specific bad point on the distribution system or something....

ART6

Then I would say that they are in breach of the drinking water Regulations -- SI439-2000. You can look that up at: http://www.epa.ie/downloads/legislation/water/drinking/name,13687,en.html

Personally I would write to the council pointing that Regulation (which is an EU Directive and therefore engraved on stone) out and if they still don't do anything, report them the the EPA

CJhaughey

I would say what is happening is that under normal use the water infeed is slow enough that there is no disturbance of the sediment on the bottom of the attic tank.
When you are using a lot of water the ballcock will drop and open the waterfeed so there is a large flow into the tank disturbing the sediment which is then sucked out and into the taps.
Have you tried getting a person to stand by the taps while you go into the attic and watch the tank, get them to turn all the taps on and see what happens in the attic tank?
You could always just get a brush and some bleach and tie the ballcock up so there is no water feeding in, and run a tap while scrubbing the tank, this will dislodge all the sediment and it will drain away.
Refill and repeat and you should have a clean tank after a while.

Big_Mac

CJhaughey wrote: »

I would say what is happening is that under normal use the water infeed is slow enough that there is no disturbance of the sediment on the bottom of the attic tank.
When you are using a lot of water the ballcock will drop and open the waterfeed so there is a large flow into the tank disturbing the sediment which is then sucked out and into the taps.
Have you tried getting a person to stand by the taps while you go into the attic and watch the tank, get them to turn all the taps on and see what happens in the attic tank?
You could always just get a brush and some bleach and tie the ballcock up so there is no water feeding in, and run a tap while scrubbing the tank, this will dislodge all the sediment and it will drain away.
Refill and repeat and you should have a clean tank after a while.

Wont help. The Kitchen tap is mains fed, so cleaning the tank would do nothing for it

CJhaughey

Big_Mac wrote: »

Wont help. The Kitchen tap is mains fed, so cleaning the tank would do nothing for it

I wonder is it creating a venturi? Regardless, I would still clean the tank in the attic, you use that water to brush your teeth and wash your face no ?

gravedigger

CJhaughey wrote: »

I wonder is it creating a venturi? Regardless, I would still clean the tank in the attic, you use that water to brush your teeth and wash your face no ?

I've cleaned the attic tank on numerous occasions over the last few years, but the sediment always returns, so I can't keep on doing it forever. I need to try and stop the problem where it is occurring. There is no possible chance, after thorough inspection, that the attic tank is siphoning water down to the kitchen tap.

The mains pressure defaults to the side passage tap for whatever reason. By this I mean if it is opened at full whack, and you have the kitchen tap opened at the same time, the kitchen tap's flow is a trickle and the SP tap has good pressure. Whenever the side passage tap is opened fully (even if it is the only tap on), lots of debris/sediment is present from both taps, even the trickly kitchen tap. As for the washing machine, it must be the same story, as all three compartments (detergent/ softener etc) get grubby quite fast and need cleaning.

When the kitchen tap is on fully by itself, the most you will see is a few specks, and the pressure seems good there too (but maybe not quite as high as the other one, I don't know).

I spoke to some people about this, and there is no consensus on it. A good suggestion was one I heard from ART6 on this board (above), and two other people also shared this opinion.

We do not appear to have a leak in our service pipe (the one that carries water from road main to house). At this point, if we did, it would surely have manifested itself in obvious wet patches and worse in the front driveway. We have had this problem for some years now.