Is it risky for the "yes" side putting celebrities out there?

population

I would suggest that the political parties PR machines are advising them that any celebrity endorsement for a yes vote can only be a good thing, but I am not so sure after seeing the very public rolling out of Robbie Keane and The Edge yesterday.

Essentially this is another group of multi millionaires telling the electorate what to do. I am just thinking back to the tara protests and the general ill feeling towards the celebrities who affiliated themselves with it despite never really having to deal with any of the issues at stake. Money insulates. A few years ago the public were generally admiring of those who had by hook or by crook (probably an unfortunate phrase!) made themselves independently wealthy and aspired to be like them. Now we all know how that played out, and I would argue that the public are currently mistrustful of those who pretty much live on another planet to them.

Could this be a miscalculation by the yes side???

turgon

population wrote: »

Essentially this is another group of multi millionaires telling the electorate what to do.

The electorate love being told what do do by celebrities. For many people their vote will not be shaped by any tangible reasons, so you may as well give them some "stupid" reasons.

Think of all the young adults who love soccer - then to hear Robbie Keane wants you to vote Yes. That will be a big factor imo.

is_that_so

In the current political climate, a high profile, non-political supporter for either side, as long as they are carefully chosen, can only be good. Providing Keane is not asked any "hard" questions, he'll help deliver the "football" vote. Of more importance is Pat Cox, who knows how Europe works and communicates it well. As an ex-politician he is likely to campaign up until polling day.

The only real risk is the type of gaffes they make and whether anyone of "credibility" on the opposite side can exploit them. That said there are far less don't knows and in theory far less voters to be persuaded.

Scofflaw

population wrote: »

I would suggest that the political parties PR machines are advising them that any celebrity endorsement for a yes vote can only be a good thing, but I am not so sure after seeing the very public rolling out of Robbie Keane and The Edge yesterday.

Essentially this is another group of multi millionaires telling the electorate what to do. I am just thinking back to the tara protests and the general ill feeling towards the celebrities who affiliated themselves with it despite never really having to deal with any of the issues at stake. Money insulates. A few years ago the public were generally admiring of those who had by hook or by crook (probably an unfortunate phrase!) made themselves independently wealthy and aspired to be like them. Now we all know how that played out, and I would argue that the public are currently mistrustful of those who pretty much live on another planet to them.

Could this be a miscalculation by the yes side???

Hm. Was it a miscalculation by the No side last time? I seem to remember something about multi-millionaires telling the electorate what to do...

cordially,
Scofflaw

20goto10

It's a non political organisation called "Ireland for Europe" who are putting forward celebrities in their campaign. The government have not started theirs yet as far as I am aware.

population

20goto10 wrote: »

It's a non political organisation called "Ireland for Europe" who are putting forward celebrities in their campaign. The government have not started theirs yet as far as I am aware.

Well they are advocating a yes vote in a highly politicised treaty so therefore to say they are non political is a bit of a contradiction in terms

turgon

Not really. How is the treaty "highly politicised"?

population

Scofflaw wrote: »

Hm. Was it a miscalculation by the No side last time? I seem to remember something about multi-millionaires telling the electorate what to do...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Good point, I am not saying it is or it isnt, I am just wondering if the copper fastened guarenteed celebrity vote winning formula is as set in stone as they may think particularly with current circumstances in mind.

population

turgon wrote: »

Not really. How is the treaty "highly politicised"?

Well there are two sides going head to head on this believing their way to be the right political direction for Europe to go in.

I am saying if the message from Robbie etc was "get out and vote" as opposed to "get out and vote yes" which takes a side

20goto10

population wrote: »

Good point, I am not saying it is or it isnt, I am just wondering if the copper fastened guarenteed celebrity vote winning formula is as set in stone as they may think particularly with current circumstances in mind.

The problem is they have picked the wrong celebrities. What they need is a well respected business man who knows what he is talking about and can explain why a No vote is damaging to Irish business. But Robbie Keane?? Come on, he's a complete muppet and besides that he doesn't even live in Ireland.

Tony EH

Bad move by the 'Yes' side. Looks like exactly what it is...rolling out some celebs to tell the gobshite electorate what to do.

"Sure, if you don't believe your politicians, here's Robbie Keane"

"Oh well, if Robbie says it's ok, then where do I sign?"

Anybody with an ounce of sense will see through this, no matter which side of the fence they're on.

Other than a slight damage to the 'Yes' campaign's credibility (given that the Irish public's distain for celebs is only slightly lower than it is for politicians), it's rather meaningless.

P. Breathnach

20goto10 wrote: »

The problem is they have picked the wrong celebrities. What they need is a well respected business man who knows what he is talking about and can explain why a No vote is damaging to Irish business. But Robbie Keane?? Come on, he's a complete muppet and besides that he doesn't even live in Ireland.

They have also got Pat Cox, Jim O'Hara (general Manager of Intel Ireland), Harry Crosbie, David Byrne (former EU Commissioner and now Chancellor of DCU), Alan Gillis, Garrett Fitzgerald, Peter Sutherland, Brighid Laffan, Mary Davis, Paul McGuinness.

The media chose to focus attention on Robbie Keane and The Edge. Rugby player Denis Hickey must feel neglected.

Robbie Keane is no more a muppet than many of those who post here as if they were authorities.

LOOKIHERE

Its a great move. Any positive publicity is a good thing. We need to vote yes - the no campaign was won last time due to a badly run yes campaign.

turgon

population wrote: »

Well there are two sides going head to head on this believing their way to be the right political direction for Europe to go in.

Well be that definition every discussion from the best flavour of tea etc is highly political.

I think one of the problems with the debate is it seen as being solely political. No one can really see it outside of the party/interest group politics. The quality of debate suffers.

Rb

It stinks of desperation and is an insult to the electorate.

turgon

Rb wrote: »

It is an insult to the electorate.

As is trying to cajole them into voting for issues that will not be in any way whatsoever effected by the outcome.

Scofflaw

Rb wrote: »

It stinks of desperation and is an insult to the electorate.

A little desperation would have done the Yes campaigns some good last time...as for the electorate, I'm sure they're capable of making up their own minds.

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

Rb wrote: »

It stinks of desperation and is an insult to the electorate.

Are you describing the Libertas and Cóir campaigns in Lisbon 1?

mikom

What are the chances of Robbie signing some anti-Lisbon promotional material.......

LOOKIHERE

Rb wrote: »

It stinks of desperation and is an insult to the electorate.

I think it highlights the importance. Something that the yes campaign missed on the last outing.

And it is a much better waste of our money v's the mug shot on poster approach (which no doubt will make an appearance in some form...)

O'Morris

Instead of celebrities, the yes side should make an effort to get some of the high-profile economists on their side. If someone like David McWilliams or Moore McDowell came out firmly behind the treaty and gave the economy as the reason for their support then that would do far greater damage to the no side than anything else.

The most effective thing the Ireland for Europe people could do would be to write a short four or five line statement laying out clearly why it's so important for Ireland's economy that we vote yes in the second referendum. All they would need to do is get a half-dozen of the leading economists in the country (excluding George Lee) to sign the statement and then publish it as a full page advertisement in the main newspapers. If they did that the yes side could just sit back and donate the rest of their campaign budget to charity.

Rb

turgon wrote: »

As is trying to cajole them into voting for issues that will not be in any way whatsoever effected by the outcome.

Both sides are guilty of this in the run up to (now) but referenda, however I think trotting out Robbie Keane & Co is a little bit thin.

netron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

They have also got Pat Cox, Jim O'Hara (general Manager of Intel Ireland), Harry Crosbie, David Byrne (former EU Commissioner and now Chancellor of DCU), Alan Gillis, Garrett Fitzgerald, PETER SUTHERLAND, Brighid Laffan, Mary Davis, Paul McGuinness.

The media chose to focus attention on Robbie Keane and The Edge. Rugby player Denis Hickey must feel neglected.

Robbie Keane is no more a muppet than many of those who post here as if they were authorities.

so i take it that Robbie Keane has read the Lisbon Treaty in depth and based on reading it , he is in favour of it?

Yeah right. And they accused the No campaign of telling lies.

Well, thats a good start for the Yes campaign - tell more lies.

netron

O'Morris wrote: »

Instead of celebrities, the yes side should make an effort to get some of the high-profile economists on their side. If someone like David McWilliams or Moore McDowell came out firmly behind the treaty and gave the economy as the reason for their support then that would do far greater damage to the no side than anything else.

The most effective thing the Ireland for Europe people could do would be to write a short four or five line statement laying out clearly why it's so important for Ireland's economy that we vote yes in the second referendum. All they would need to do is get a half-dozen of the leading economists in the country (excluding George Lee) to sign the statement and then publish it as a full page advertisement in the main newspapers. If they did that the yes side could just sit back and donate the rest of their campaign budget to charity.

Would be interesting to hear what David MacWilliams has to say.

But based on what he has written previously, i would guess he would say No.

He is against the Euro for example.

conchubhar1

and we all know if your against the euro you are aginst the lisbon treaty? anti eu and a damn nationalist.........


ireland for europes vids on youtube are a disgrace and their lack of accepting comments farcicle



tá mé ag vótáil yes mar is maith liom an europe.... (paraphrase but that is essentialy the qoute) and crap like this which is bad irish and nothing to do with lisbon

P. Breathnach

netron wrote: »

so i take it that Robbie Keane has read the Lisbon Treaty in depth and based on reading it , he is in favour of it?

Yeah right. And they accused the No campaign of telling lies.

Well, thats a good start for the Yes campaign - tell more lies.

Why this nastiness directed against Robbie Keane? Most people who campaigned or made public comment on the treaty have not read it, and some of those who claim to have read it seem not to understand what they claim to have read.

Your contention that somebody is telling lies is preposterous.

conchubhar1

question mark and ''so i take it'' - yes that statement was purported to be fact....

netron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Why this nastiness directed against Robbie Keane? Most people who campaigned or made public comment on the treaty have not read it, and some of those who claim to have read it seem not to understand what they claim to have read.

Your contention that somebody is telling lies is preposterous.

matt cooper had an interesting interview with robbie keane on his show this afternoon.

however, Mr Keane seemed to be talking about football tactics all the time, so maybe Mr Cooper was pulling a fast one on us.

netron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Why this nastiness directed against Robbie Keane? Most people who campaigned or made public comment on the treaty have not read it, and some of those who claim to have read it seem not to understand what they claim to have read.

Your contention that somebody is telling lies is preposterous.

ok. lets roll back a bit.

we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

"Look over here at the shiny celeb - isnt he great - vote Yes - just forget about WHAT yer voting on , but vote Yes!"

netron

conchubhar1 wrote: »

ireland for europes vids on youtube are a disgrace and their lack of accepting comments farcicle

that speaks volumes.

P. Breathnach

netron wrote: »

we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

Given that there are many people who have not read the treaty, and who very obviously do not understand it, urging us to vote no, it seems you should have a dilemma.

netron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Given that there are many people who have not read the treaty, and who very obviously do not understand it, urging us to vote no, it seems you should have a dilemma.

there is no dilemma. why would you sign up to a legal contract that you cannot understand?

anonymous_joe

Robbie Keane will regret this when he's conscripted into the EU Army while babies get aborted.

Edit: Seriously though, an insult to the electorate?

The other side lied! How is this an insult?

anonymous_joe

netron wrote: »

there is no dilemma. why would you sign up to a legal contract that you cannot understand?

Because I trust the people who advise me?

O'Morris

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The other side lied! How is this an insult?

Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?

P. Breathnach

O'Morris wrote: »

Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?

Losing "our" Commissioner.

PopeBuckfastXVI

O'Morris wrote: »

Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?

Most of this:
http://www.lisbonvote.com/

partholon

O'Morris wrote: »

Instead of celebrities, the yes side should make an effort to get some of the high-profile economists on their side. If someone like David McWilliams or Moore McDowell came out firmly behind the treaty and gave the economy as the reason for their support then that would do far greater damage to the no side than anything else.

The most effective thing the Ireland for Europe people could do would be to write a short four or five line statement laying out clearly why it's so important for Ireland's economy that we vote yes in the second referendum. All they would need to do is get a half-dozen of the leading economists in the country (excluding George Lee) to sign the statement and then publish it as a full page advertisement in the main newspapers. If they did that the yes side could just sit back and donate the rest of their campaign budget to charity.

ya see theres just ONE problem with this.

there IS no economic reason to vote for lisbon. thats not what the thing is about. about the only economic/business element you can possbibly construe from lisbon is the prospect of attracting weapons manufuacturing and development companies to set up here to take advantage of the enhanced status and funding of the EDA and thats just a no no from a PR front.

end of the day everything an economist would want already exists in terms of the participation of the euro and the access to the market.

in fact from what i can see the only "negative" economic result from a no vote will probably be the circa 25 million a year it'll cost us to DO the damn referendums again and again and again like gay mitchell basically said theyd do.

on the OP.

I think this could blow up in the yes sides face. someone else correctly posted that if you get the RIGHT celebrity you could be on a winner. i think you actually WILL see george lee covering this big time as it should be a no brainer. this though is georges first real test. we dont even KNOW his stance on lisbon so if he doesnt campaign for it people will start asking questions and if he DOES people will throw the FG whip in his face. how lee handles this should be one of the funner aspects to the coming referndum.

but robbie keane? does NO ONE see the irony of a guy calling for a yes vote who comes from a place where 6 out of 10 people voted no?

the EDGE ? the FIRST thing anyone worth their salt will do is point out he wont even pay all the taxes he should here !

And dont get me started on seamus heaney. anyone that even KNOWS who he is probably voted yes in the first place. one of the most inexplicable bit of radio i heard in ages was RTE fawning all over this bloke (on his birthday i think) which had all the country under 36 going "who?"

the BIG problem these guys have is the sophistication of the electorate whom most of em seem to think are as thick as shyte and treat them as such. after everything thats gone on in this country the last 15yrs or so they dont trust the motivation of ANYONE in the public eye. so when they hear an "independant" group is being set up and the head guy involved is an ex EU comission president ably assisted by a bunch of deefurs their bullshyte meter goes through the roof.

its STILL abit too early to truly come to a conclusion on this but it hasnt got off to a good start. if anything it looks like a more expensive version of those "generation yes" idiots.

storinius

netron wrote: »

ok. lets roll back a bit.

we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

"Look over here at the shiny celeb - isnt he great - vote Yes - just forget about WHAT yer voting on , but vote Yes!"

I really don't get why people are so down on Robbie Keane and Denis Hickie about this. I heard Hickie on newstalk, and he said that he was asked how he was voting, and as a citizen he has as much right to answer that as anyone else. If he is heard louder because of what he does (or did) for a living then so be it.

It also strikes me that these 'celebs' can be seen as endorsing a campaign, rather than the specifics of the treaty. Again Denis Hickie said (and I am paraphrasing here):

"I haven't read all of the treaty. But the bits I've read I like, and I trust the people in the Ireland for Europe campaign."

He isn't pretending to be a legal expert, he is just getting stuck in. Fair play I say.

P. Breathnach

partholon wrote: »

... the BIG problem these guys have is the sophistication of the electorate whom most of em seem to think are as thick as shyte and treat them as such. after everything thats gone on in this country the last 15yrs or so they dont trust the motivation of ANYONE in the public eye. so when they hear an "independant" group is being set up and the head guy involved is an ex EU comission president ably assisted by a bunch of deefurs their bullshyte meter goes through the roof.

its STILL abit too early to truly come to a conclusion on this but it hasnt got off to a good start. if anything it looks like a more expensive version of those "generation yes" idiots.

Are you representative of this sophisticated electorate of which you write?

Who is the ex EU comission president involved?

K-9

netron wrote: »

we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

As good a reason as any I've heard.

oscarBravo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Who is the ex EU comission president involved?

Stop nitpicking - it's enough to know that he's a faceless unelected bureaucrat, isn't it?

petronius

Lets make the Lisbon treaty look cool...

The Edge we could move companies to Holland and avoid paying Irish Tax! maybe Lisbon will allow us further tax avoidance

John Delaney FAI - I hired Steve Staunton - the changes Lisbon makes to the European Union must do what for the FAI

Robbie Keane - did he read the treaty? if he did that was more than Charlie McCreevy and many others I suspect!

Maybe they should have Missus Doyle - ah go on go on go on ...you will say yes to lisbon

lostexpectation

Scofflaw wrote: »

Hm. Was it a miscalculation by the No side last time? I seem to remember something about multi-millionaires telling the electorate what to do...

cordially,
Scofflaw

the no side didn't put out any celebs last time, multimillionaires?.. business men, any other people you can mention were individual s and not part of orchestrated or campaign like these guys

Scofflaw

lostexpectation wrote: »

the no side didn't put out any celebs last time, multimillionaires?.. business men, any other people you can mention were individual s and not part of orchestrated or campaign like these guys

Unless the celebs in question are being paid to express an opinion they otherwise wouldn't, there's no difference. I don't think much of celebrity endorsement personally, but celebrities have just as much right as anyone else to publicly express their support for something, and campaign groups have just as much right to ask them as to ask anyone else. If people pay attention to the political opinions of someone whose talent is singing very loudly or looking good in a dress, that's their lookout.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

again there no orchestarted campaign by no people to publicisise celebrity opinion _thats the difference_

P. Breathnach

lostexpectation wrote: »

again there no orchestarted campaign by no people to publicisise celebrity opinion _thats the difference_

You've got no celebrities.

lostexpectation

thank christ!

Scofflaw

lostexpectation wrote: »

thank christ!

That suggests that you view endorsement by celebrities as a poor thing in itself. I wouldn't disagree with you, but it's a separate issue from 'organised' use of celebrity endorsement. Nor am I convinced that it's possible to lower the standard of debate in Irish referendums, even were we to have endorsement by celebrity pets.

cordially,
Scofflaw

View

Scofflaw wrote: »

Nor am I convinced that it's possible to lower the standard of debate in Irish referendums....

I suspect you are too optimistic. My fear is that a Children's rights referendum could be so awful, it'll make Lisbon seem positively intellectual in comparison.