Dole cut?

snubbleste

The Taoiseach has said that despite media reports to the contrary the Government has made no decision on reducing social welfare or dole payments. Brian Cowen said he was confident that the electorate would not treat the next Lisbon referendum as an opinion poll on domestic Government policy. He said the electorate would focus instead on the important European issues at stake www.rte.ie/news/2009/0621/welfare.html

So when he says no decision has been made, he is not denying it will be cut. Clearest sign yet that there wil be a reduction in welfare payments (after we can't protest about it at the ballot box).

mikemac

Lisbon vote is planned for next October but obviously that can change.

It'll be done before the next budget for sure though

snubbleste

Our Lisbon vote has to happen before Oct 31st as that's when the current EU Commission expires.

But anyway Dole payments!

Xiney

I wouldn't be surprised if it is cut.

Happy Monday

Xiney wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if it is cut.

Playing with fire!

It might not mean a lot to people working but for those people on the dole their EUR200 a week is all they have - cut that to EUR100 or slightly more and you'll get a massive reaction!

Particulary when people hold FF responsible for this collapse by letting their rich speculator buddies and funders fuel too much growth in the economy.

Major cuts will lead to riots on the streets!

Xiney

I don't disagree, Happy Monday.

I feel they may cut JA and leave JB alone.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Cutting the dole is a very cynical measure. There's people who are using their 200 quid a week towards debts. Yes they shouldn't have got that car loan or that holiday but they were told by Bertie and his ilk that everything was rosey and financial institutions were more than happy to give a loan to anyone who could sign their name....

Anyway, I digress, I believe the social welfare system will be modeled similar to the UK's one where there's different rates depending on age up to about 25 and the likes of disability benefit (or whatever psuedo PC name they have now) will probably be split up depending on "mobility" or some other such offensive term.

Max Power1

Xiney wrote: »

I don't disagree, Happy Monday.

I feel they may cut JA and leave JB alone.

I thought that they should have done that at the last budget. Cant come soon enough, JB as it is based on contributions deserves to be left alone.

Xiney

to clarify, I don't mean cutting JA - I mean it's likely they'll change the conditions of the means test so that fewer people receive the full amount.

Max Power1

So you dont think €200 plus per week is too high in these recessionary times? For someone who may not have worked a day in their lives, (as JA is means tested not contributions based). Either or, the social welfare spend needs to be cut, and I for one would prefer to see a cut across the board, rather than restricting access to social welfare.

Xiney

Because of the way the PRSI rules are set, there are many on JA that have worked their whole lives, either self employed or who just took one year out of work to study a relevent course in university during the "relevant tax year". We've seen it on this board all too many times.

I think changing the means test rules for JA would be the least unfair thing they could do, if they're going to reduce social welfare payments at all.


However, I'd like it most if they cracked down on fraudulent claims since it's these that are poisoning the well for everyone.

Max Power1

Xiney wrote: »

Because of the way the PRSI rules are set, there are many on JA that have worked their whole lives, either self employed or who just took one year out of work to study a relevent course in university during the "relevant tax year". We've seen it on this board all too many times.

I think changing the means test rules for JA would be the least unfair thing they could do, if they're going to reduce social welfare payments at all.


However, I'd like it most if they cracked down on fraudulent claims since it's these that are poisoning the well for everyone.

Thats why i'd favour a cut across the board tbh, people that submit fraudulent claims will always find a way to qualify for the dole, and the genuine claims will be made to suffer.

Red Sleeping Beauty

If they're changing the means then deadly, they can include debts and create an organisation to bail out the unemployed.

stepbar

Look, if someone can't live on 200 eur a week then they have issues. I'm employed and live on less than that! Granted my loan / car expenses bring the amount above that but in the case I was made unemployed I would have to get rid of the car and live within my means. I don't have protection on my loan but that's the chance I took. With rent allowance it should not be beyond anyone to live on a 100 eur a week. Holy god that's what my parents used to give me when I was in college and I happy survived on that.

stepbar

I don't really think it'd be a fair move to be honest (to cut dole).

You can live on €200, but that's about all you can do on it. I'm forever hearing about how the country has become so much cheaper to live in since the recession, but I'm yet to actually spend less money per week. Sadly, my bills didn't decrease in line with the price of Tesco's beans.


I agree that people who have been on the dole for a few years should be penalised by getting called down to their social welfare office and at the discretion of the welfare officer, their dole being cut. (at their discretion because it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between the guy thats out of work, looking for work, or trying to sort out something with FAS, etc. and the guy who has no intention of ever getting a job and pisses his money against the wall each week).


There should also be a cap on how many claims can be made in the country by people who live in other countries and have only moved here in the last few years.


If they're gonna cut the Dole, they should only take the €4.30 off it and round it to €200 per week. Reucing it by a lot really plays with people's lives.

stepbar wrote: »

Look, if someone can't live on 200 eur a week then they have issues. I'm employed and live on less than that! Granted my loan / car expenses bring the amount above that but in the case I was made unemployed I would have to get rid of the car and live within my means. I don't have protection on my loan but that's the chance I took. With rent allowance it should not be beyond anyone to live on a 100 eur a week. Holy god that's what my parents used to give me when I was in college and I happy survived on that.

I assume you don't have a mortgage? There are also a lot of people who tried to go out on their own and start their own businesses, etc. that owe money because of that. Kids are a factor. People with families who need cars. There are tonnes of people who can only barely survive on €204.30 per week.



Regardless, no amount of arguing on this thread will make a difference. I can only hope they don't cut it, but I honestly think that if they do cut it, as said above, people will take to the streets in a big way.

stepbar

Deleted User wrote: »

I assume you don't have a mortgage? There are also a lot of people who tried to go out on their own and start their own businesses, etc. that owe money because of that. Kids are a factor. People with families who need cars. There are tonnes of people who can only barely survive on €204.30 per week.



Regardless, no amount of arguing on this thread will make a difference. I can only hope they don't cut it, but I honestly think that if they do cut it, as said above, people will take to the streets in a big way.

No I don't but I'll soon will have. I pay rent though which is akin to a mortgage and still has to be paid. I don't have the luxary of moving into my parents spare bedroom. In any event those who have a mortgage can get interest relief from the HSE (AFAIK).

I hope your not trying to say that the dole should be a fail safe mechansim to be used if one fails in business etc. Every bank I know have insurance policies for events like loosing you job. The dole should not be used as a means to repay loans.

Yeah, my brother has insurance on all his loans, but since losing his job, they continually send him letters telling him if he doesn't "prove" he's looking for work, they're not paying his loans for him.



They require refusal letters from people saying that you have applied to them and that they can't take you on. No employer actually bothers with such letters though, it seems. (funnily enough, he applied to the insurance company. At least they sent him a refusal letter :pac: )

drunkmonkey

if the dole is cut who will directly benefit? (me/you?)

I'm not on the dole but my job depends on people spending money, if we cut the amount of cash in circulation I will be at a loss, if the money saved won't end back in every ones pockets I don't see much point in cutting it..

Find the savings in the public service first (not emergency workers, elderly & the unemployed)!

IT Loser

Xiney wrote: »

to clarify, I don't mean cutting JA - I mean it's likely they'll change the conditions of the means test so that fewer people receive the full amount.

How?

The mechanics of that would be fun to figure out.

IT Loser

Xiney wrote: »

Because of the way the PRSI rules are set, there are many on JA that have worked their whole lives, either self employed or who just took one year out of work to study a relevent course in university during the "relevant tax year". We've seen it on this board all too many times.

I think changing the means test rules for JA would be the least unfair thing they could do, if they're going to reduce social welfare payments at all.


However, I'd like it most if they cracked down on fraudulent claims since it's these that are poisoning the well for everyone.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0406/welfare.html

Nolanger

You're all forgetting that people who qualify for JB can opt for JA instead.

demon83

The IMF report yesterday suggested that it needs to be cut. Dole incresed during the boom times along with public sector wages so FF could keep everyone sweet, now things have changed its crippling us. If it aint cut we will go broke as simple as that.

conchobair

I was working over 2 years then got unemployed, no redundancy as I had moved company a year before. I got job seekers allowance as I was 8 weeks short of job benefit. My girlfriend and I live together so allowance slashed to 170 a week. She got a job so now my allowance is cut to 140 a week. I am not about to start asking my girlfriend to pay for everything (not that im a chauvinist) but its hard to survive on this. the big joke is that if I move out I will get 204 a week. The System is set up to try and break us up. I really could not take another cut.
Also, I cant get rent allowance as she is working. We have only lived together 6 months. we share bills but no joint bank accounts.

Xiney

From the imf report:

38. Social welfare expenditures must better target the vulnerable. The authorities recognize that it will be necessary to articulate a strategy that moves away from universalism in social welfare to one that relies more on targeting and incentives. In this regard, means testing or taxation of child benefits is under discussion. Consideration could also be given to earned income tax credits as a way of supporting lower income families, as also to the indexing of benefits to more appropriate price baskets. Also, a more nuanced minimum wage structure that allows, for example, for age-related differentials could help competitiveness and also reduce social transfers.

demon83

conchobair wrote: »

I was working over 2 years then got unemployed, no redundancy as I had moved company a year before. I got job seekers allowance as I was 8 weeks short of job benefit. My girlfriend and I live together so allowance slashed to 170 a week. She got a job so now my allowance is cut to 140 a week. I am not about to start asking my girlfriend to pay for everything (not that im a chauvinist) but its hard to survive on this. the big joke is that if I move out I will get 204 a week. The System is set up to try and break us up. I really could not take another cut.
Also, I cant get rent allowance as she is working. We have only lived together 6 months. we share bills but no joint bank accounts.

This is nothing personal against you, the dole needs to be cut and its as simple as that. The country is in a terrible mess, If your gf can support you and is willing then let her, Im sure you can repay her when you get back on your feet. in the meantime you have a roof over your head and food. Thats what welfare is for, anything else is a luxuary that if needs must, can be sacrificed. So look at cable subscription, broadbard, cars etc..

KerranJast

drunkmonkey wrote: »

if the dole is cut who will directly benefit? (me/you?)

The State, so yes me & you. There's a massive hole between income and expenditure. The Govt can't keep hiking up takes as that just discourages spending and further reduces the tax intake and prolongs the recession. The biggest Govt expenditures such as Public sector pay, social welfare, health spending have to be trimmed in line with deflation. The cost of living is consistently decreasing and both Public sector pay & social welfare should be reduced with that in mind.

There are more and more people being let go every day and that is going to bankrupt the State if they don't reduce the social welfare bill in some way.

IT Loser

KerranJast wrote: »

The State, so yes me & you. There's a massive hole between income and expenditure. The Govt can't keep hiking up takes as that just discourages spending and further reduces the tax intake and prolongs the recession. The biggest Govt expenditures such as Public sector pay, social welfare, health spending have to be trimmed in line with deflation. The cost of living is consistently decreasing and both Public sector pay & social welfare should be reduced with that in mind.

There are more and more people being let go every day and that is going to bankrupt the State if they don't reduce the social welfare bill in some way.

Let them tax Bono and his cronies.

This smacks of the old "Must tighten our belts, living way beyond our means" sh!te from Charles J and his cronies, while they lapped it up.

KerranJast

IT Loser wrote: »

Let them tax Bono and his cronies.

This smacks of the old "Must tighten our belts, living way beyond our means" sh!te from Charles J and his cronies, while they lapped it up.

Even if they stuck a 70% tax on people earning over €100k it'd be a drop in the ocean of what we need to fix the deficit. The sad truth in life is taxing a lot of people by an average amount gets you more money than heavily taxing a small number of very rich people.

Boskowski

...that the dole is meant to keep you above water and for nothing else.
It's not meant to pay your credit card debts or your car loan and it's not meant to provide carefree living either. If you're on the dole you have failed to get a job for quite some time. That may be your fault or it may be not, but one can hardly expect to live off the rest of society 'til the end of days, right?

Now we're in a situation where it simply doesn't matter whether people would consider themselves being one of 'the most vulnerable'. (And that term has been used very loosely anyway) because we just don't have the money, period. Are we going to say we can't cut the dole no matter what? Even if we let the state go bankrupt over it? Then external bodies will come in and will tell us how to budget the country and they won't give a **** about 'the most vulnerable'. Reasonable welfare cuts will be like a holiday compared to that. And I believe we're not too far away from bankruptcy.

I mean people get real - 204 a week is massive for what it is - a last resort, (supposedly) temporary supplement. Nowhere else would you get anywhere near that. Most of the 'richer' European countries - who aren't even in a situation as bad as ours and have been 'rich' a lot longer than we have - are paying less than half that.

jape

realcam wrote: »

I mean people get real - 204 a week is massive for what it is - a last resort, (supposedly) temporary supplement. Nowhere else would you get anywhere near that. Most of the 'richer' European countries - who aren't even in a situation as bad as ours and have been 'rich' a lot longer than we have - are paying less than half that.

That's a load of bs.



We were 3rd from bottom in 2006, and our dole wasn't much lower than 200 then.

Boskowski

jape wrote: »

That's a load of bs.

We were 3rd from bottom in 2006, and our dole wasn't much lower than 200 then.

You're obviously not comparing like with like and even then you're not using recent data...

I am not talking about unemployment benefits that kick in based on your contributions (stamps) and usually pay a percentage of your last salary (or something similar) for a limited time.

I am talking about what is widely known as 'the dole'. Which is the longterm unemployed welfare benefit which is based (more or less) on nothing.

Xiney

realcam wrote: »

I mean people get real - 204 a week is massive for what it is - a last resort, (supposedly) temporary supplement. Nowhere else would you get anywhere near that. Most of the 'richer' European countries - who aren't even in a situation as bad as ours and have been 'rich' a lot longer than we have - are paying less than half that.

for single people or couples without children, it might be just about enough to get by.

But for families who've had good jobs up 'til now, 204/wk with nominal increases for children, it's nearly a death sentence.


We can't compare Ireland to most other countries because in most other countries, if you fail to pay your mortgage, you lose your home but that's it. Here, you lose your home AND you still have to pay the bank back whatever it didn't get from the sale of your house. So you're homeless and still in debt.

KerranJast

Xiney wrote: »

for single people or couples without children, it might be just about enough to get by.

But for families who've had good jobs up 'til now, 204/wk with nominal increases for children, it's nearly a death sentence.

You have to love overexaggeration. An Unemployed couple with children get much more than 204/wk x2 jobseekers allowance. Throw in childrens allowance, jobseekers allowance for dependent children, early childcare allowance if the kids are young, medical card etc. and while not nearly as comfortable as a wage it is still nowhere near breadline.

Boskowski

Xiney wrote: »

We can't compare Ireland to most other countries because in most other countries, if you fail to pay your mortgage, you lose your home but that's it. Here, you lose your home AND you still have to pay the bank back whatever it didn't get from the sale of your house. So you're homeless and still in debt.

First of all, what you're saying is wrong.

And secondly...what's that got to do with the dole exactly? Are you saying the state should help paying for your home for ever and ever? If you lose your income and can't pay your mortgage you shouldn't lose (eventually) your home? Or that the state should pay for whatever debt comes out of that?

I'm confused...because if you answered any of those questions with 'yes' I'd find that crazy tbh. But I can't figure out what else you're implying.

Xiney

KerranJast wrote: »

You have to love overexaggeration. An Unemployed couple with children get much more than 204/wk x2 jobseekers allowance. Throw in childrens allowance, jobseekers allowance for dependent children, early childcare allowance if the kids are young, medical card etc. and while not nearly as comfortable as a wage it is still nowhere near breadline.

Are you in that situation saying that?


If they're not on the breadline then I don't know who you'd consider to be on it in this country.

early childcare supplement: €41.50 / month / child under 5
child benefit: €166.00 / month / child under 18
jobseeker's allowance for couple: €339.90 + €26 /child
rent allowance : granted, if you have kids, the thresholds are actually at ok levels (compared to if you have no kids where the thresholds are almost impossible to satisfy)

But the rest of that isn't particularly huge living with kids.

Xiney

realcam wrote: »

First of all, what you're saying is wrong.

And secondly...what's that got to do with the dole exactly? Are you saying the state should help paying for your home for ever and ever? If you lose your income and can't pay your mortgage you shouldn't lose (eventually) your home? Or that the state should pay for whatever debt comes out of that?

I'm confused...because if you answered any of those questions with 'yes' I'd find that crazy tbh. But I can't figure out what else you're implying.

I'm saying it should be easier to declare bankruptcy in this country.

KerranJast

Xiney wrote: »

Are you in that situation saying that?


If they're not on the breadline then I don't know who you'd consider to be on it in this country.

early childcare supplement: €41.50 / month / child under 5
child benefit: €166.00 / month / child under 18
jobseeker's allowance for couple: €339.90 + €26 /child
rent allowance : granted, if you have kids, the thresholds are actually at ok levels (compared to if you have no kids where the thresholds are almost impossible to satisfy)

But the rest of that isn't particularly huge living with kids.

No but people are almost expecting living on the Dole to be close to their employed standard of living when it has never been meant to be that. You can't have two cars, be paying off a big mortgage, spend unnecessarily on the kids, still go on holidays etc when you are unemployed. State benefits are meant to keep the roof over your head and keep you at a reasonable standard of living while you look for work. It is meant to be barely tolerable not simply mildly uncomfortable.

Lollipops23

while at the min i feel i can't complain, i would be really annoyed/upset if the JA was cut.

im still getting work om sundays(which is not counted,as it's seen as "holidays") but i reckon in a month or 2 that will be gone. if they cut my JA too i'll be in real trouble. i'm doing what i can to save as much as i can for when that day comes.

KINGVictor

KerranJast wrote: »

You have to love overexaggeration. An Unemployed couple with children get much more than 204/wk x2 jobseekers allowance. Throw in childrens allowance, jobseekers allowance for dependent children, early childcare allowance if the kids are young, medical card etc. and while not nearly as comfortable as a wage it is still nowhere near breadline.

I understand where you are coming from...I dont like it when I see people who have never worked in their lives..get together and decide to breed in other to milk the system...but I think these sort of people would be in the minority.

There are ordinary people who have laboured over the years and unfortunately find themselves having no choice but to seek state support.

Your assertion about what families get is very false...

-Unemployed couples dont get 204 x 2...there is a primary claimer(who gets 204) and the other partner gets the dependant spouse allowance which is 110 euros..which amounts to €314 ..and lets assume they have 4 kids..the family income is €418 ....that amount IMHO ..is below the poverty line.

My point is...????

It would be wrong to make general statements because there are different circumstances.

Merch

demon83 wrote: »

This is nothing personal against you, the dole needs to be cut and its as simple as that. The country is in a terrible mess, If your gf can support you and is willing then let her, Im sure you can repay her when you get back on your feet. in the meantime you have a roof over your head and food. Thats what welfare is for, anything else is a luxuary that if needs must, can be sacrificed. So look at cable subscription, broadbard, cars etc..

Or the Govt could have not bailed out their pals with our money, instead of screwing us over by wringing every cent out of us all, pushing up prices and then screwing us over again telling us to tighten our belts?? when it goes wrong.
Some people are reliant on it, heavily, we're not financing new cars or phones we're paying bills.Why don't the Govt eliminate the financial inefficiencey in all depts and then start looking at their own money start from the top down.

IT Loser

Hanafin was just on the radio there: Child Benefit is to be taxed and means tested.

She says the money being paid out is just too much.

I would accept a cut in my Dole, but I better be getting something in the first place.

amacachi

IT Loser wrote: »

Hanafin was just on the radio there: Child Benefit is to be taxed and means tested.

What ****ing bull****. Yet another hit for people who are working.

97i9y3941

they have to close the borders here aswell,whats point issueing pps numbers when theres simply no work around,let alone only ireland *thanks to bertie getting the golden handshake from the hotels and the builders* ,the uk and sweden have opened them,rest of europe hasnt,so should we call rest of europe rascist or feel like morons for doing it in the first place?...,taken from yesterdays sunday indepenent

Seven out of 10 favour immigration restrictions

Poll reveals public concern over welfare strain from 'new' EU citizens

By JEROME REILLY
Sunday June 28 2009

a LARGE majority believe immigration from new EU member states into Ireland should be restricted because the perilous economic situation means we no longer have enough jobs, a Sunday Independent poll has revealed.

Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.

The poll was conducted after it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total.

Asked: "Do you think Ireland, in line with most other European countries, should restrict immigrants from new EU accession countries?" 67 per cent of respondents replied Yes and 33 per cent answered No.

Many respondents believed it was unsustainable to allow more and more people in given the size of the country and the economic crisis.

Others pointed out that there had been a need for labour during the boom years but that demand was gone.

Some respondents also expressed fears that more immigration from these countries would lead to a strain on the welfare system and a small minority believed that fraud was an issue.

"We do not have the jobs anymore and if people come over and just end up on the dole that is just going to cause problems," according to one respondent.

There was a feeling among a significant number of respondents that the whole issue of immigration had been badly dealt with over the boom years and that the State needed to be more careful in the future.

Many who see no need for new restrictions expressed the view that because the Celtic Tiger economy had waned few people would want to come to Ireland.

"Luck would be a fine thing. Who would want to come here now?" was one response.

Others believed that free movement of labour between member states was a key part of the EU and that Ireland had benefited from those who had come here during the boom as much as they had.

The poll conducted by Quantum Research for the Sunday Independent came as new figures from the Department of Social Welfare showed that between May 2008 and May 2009 the numbers signing on at social welfare local offices throughout the State has risen by more than 97 per cent from more than 201,700 to more than 396,800.

In May Alan Barrett, an economist with the ESRI, in a paper titled The Labour Market in Recession suggested that during a downturn, migrant workers do not immediately go home.

"A significant proportion of immigrants appear to be reacting to job losses by remaining here," Mr Barrett said.

He said this could be explained by labour market conditions abroad, but he added that "welfare entitlement here may also be playing a role".

On May 1, 2004, 10 countries joined the European Union. Only three countries, Ireland, the UK and Sweden, opened their labour markets to people from these accession states.

Most other countries sought a two-year "stay" before they opened up their country to citizens, but since 2006 most of our European neighbours have retained restrictions on workers from new EU countries.

- JEROME REILLY

snubbleste

I wouldn't have much faith in 'polls' carried out by the Sunday Indo Fred83, however it does address some questions.


Following on from the original post, I see news reports today that the government are going to try to delay publishing/implementing the Bord Snip Nua drastic proposals on welfare payments, public sector reductions etc., until after the Lisbon vote.

IT Loser

It is certainly a legit thought.

As for Hanafin planning the snips until after Lisbon, we are in a tight spot.

If we do them on Lisbon, they will still go ahead and make the cuts.

If we dont do them on Lisbon, they will definitely make the cuts.

Of course, they end up out of government next time around anyways.

97i9y3941

i have a feeling they do it before it,the way the country is gone into the titanic *the polictitions and the developers where the rats fleeing it*,and more people joining the dole queue they will cut it quick...

IT Loser

Fred83 wrote: »

i have a feeling they do it before it,the way the country is gone into the titanic *the polictitions and the developers where the rats fleeing it*,and more people joining the dole queue they will cut it quick...

First thing they need is to get rid of the scroungers and the liars and the immigrant fraudsters {yes, I can say that now, the RTE website, not exactly a bastion of pro-paddy/anti-foreign sentiment, has already done so}

That saves us a bunch.

Then they can reduce the dole by around £10 per person.

And guess what? I will still vote NO and I will then specifically vote FG next time out.

97i9y3941

you know,they could least bring in a blockage on paying child allowance for kids that dont even live here!,that would save alot of money too!

fin-slipknot

i only get ?100 p/w. im left with a tenner for food for seven days. my life is now great with full of joy and thoughts of suicide

drunkmonkey

You shouldn't be thinking of suicide, you should be concentracting on getting some kind of work, even if it's only drawing silage, working in a pub or something, your a young guy, the worlds your oyster, pull up your pants and get out there and do something.
Time to start banging on doors and get some work.

Mr.C Accountant

Fred83 wrote: »

they have to close the borders here Seven out of 10 favour immigration restrictions

Poll reveals public concern over welfare strain from 'new' EU citizens

By JEROME REILLY
Sunday June 28 2009

a LARGE majority believe immigration from new EU member states into Ireland should be restricted because the perilous economic situation means we no longer have enough jobs, a Sunday Independent poll has revealed.

Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.

The poll was conducted after it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total.



On May 1, 2004, 10 countries joined the European Union. Only three countries, Ireland, the UK and Sweden, opened their labour markets to people from these accession states.

Most other countries sought a two-year "stay" before they opened up their country to citizens, but since 2006 most of our European neighbours have retained restrictions on workers from new EU countries.

I hope the moderator does not ban this thread but i have some very stong words to say about immagration..... therea are 80K non nationals claiming the the dole in Ireland that rougly about 20% of those on the dole. these people cant find work and should go home but they wont.. why not becasue its too good over here, why go home and get 50 quid a week while u can stay in irealnd and get 200, if i was an non national i would do the same....

Proberly live cheap and save 120 euor a week and send it back home....
It makes sense. Its like a gold mine!!!

consequently those iditos will respond they paid PRSI , like the irish did, we needed them and now when we dont need them we are sending them home ... its so unfair.

But the stark reality is that they benefited from us so much during the boom years, irelands minimum wage was about 4-5 times that of eastern european countries.....

We benefited from and they benefited from us... now they should really go home...., WHO IS THE IRISH STATE LOOKING AFTER IRISH PEOPLE OR NON NATIONALS

As stated above when poland joined the EU , germany imposed stringent rules about working in germany.... it was somthing liek they cant work for 6-7 years, why the hell didint irealnd do that.......

The goverment have introduced this work permit increase, this IS going to afect no eu workers but whats the point of getting rid of non eu workers and having ten or twenty new eu ascention states taking their place.

Im irish myself and would like to see this economy get better, Irish jobs should go to irish people fiRSTLY and if they cant be filled should then go to non- nationals it makes perfect sense.

There are so many students looking for work at the moment, even working in a shop or bar would be better than staying at home and getting 40 quid a week, but there are very few jobs availiabe becaue most are taken by eu- and non eu nationals..... Go into londis, spar, cafes, in town and you will see laods of non eu nationals, and Non nationals.

Im not suggesting like Edamein the president fo Uganda that all these pople should go but they should be phased out slowly... I really hav nothing against foreingers but when i see potential jobs, that are taken that irish people could work in and thus claim less welfare going to these people it kind of makes me annoyed!!!

There i have said it, id say this will proebrly get banned, but anyway it doesnt matter, Somebody ahs to say it!!!