Your changes to the lions team

Tomtom364

My own opinion of how the lions should line out for the second test. changes in bold

15 L Byrne (if fit)
14 T Bowe
13 B O'Driscoll
12 J Roberts
11 Kearney (played great when he came on but id still want Byrne in)
10 R O'Gara (jones played very badly and kicked horribly, ROG may have defensive issues but i think the lions are better off with him then Jones)
9 M Phillips (only real choice at SH unfortunatally)
1 G Jenkins
2 M Rees (lineouts)
3 A Jones (scrums)
4 A-W Jones
5 P O'Connell
6 T Croft
7 M Williams (need better work at the break down)
8 D Wallace (power running and supporting)



16 L Mears
17 J Hayes
18 D O'Callaghan
19 J Heaslip
20 H Ellis
21 S Jones (or J Hook, not sold on with at the moment)
22 L Fitzgerald

2040

Murray is out for the rest of the tour unfortunately. I think he was really needed today, as was Ferris.

Tomtom364

oh my bad. i didnt know who it was that bull was called up to cover.
in that case i would have bull on the bench

Stev_o

Id just play Shane Williams everywhere.

daveyrovers

I'm not convinced about bringing in Martin Williams??

Was there really a problem at the breakdown?

I haven't looked at the match stats but wasn't under the impression that there was a lot of problems at the breakdown. I could be wrong, the way I saw it was there was a major problem on one side of the scrum which leaked 9 points all on it's own.

Heaslip didn't have a great game but I'd leave the backrow. I like the idea of bringing on Martyn Williams with 20 minutes to go. Again Ree's and mears is just swapping the muck around, neither can throw the ball in, but I'd agree with you on it no harm in giving ree's the chance this time. Rory Best should be there end of story.

I know this is going to annoy a lot of people but I think the bull is perfectly made for the Beast. I like bull hayes and I'd hate to see him destroyed but I genuinely hope he doesn't get a run in the test as I feel he'd look worse than vickery did today if that is possibly.

daveyrovers

I think I'd agree with you about bringing on ROG.

I'm not a ROG fan at all but having now watched the game 3 times Jones was very poor. Even the penalty with 3 minutes to go he sliced it right off his boot. As it happened the lions lost the lion out but got a scrum. If ROG had been on the pitch I reckon he could have got it close to the 5 meter line and then we would have had a scrum 5 meters out with 2 minutes to go.

Personally if Hook is fit he should start. If not than ROG should be given a go.

Problem is they have three outhalves who do they play on Tuesday?? Bit tough to ask ROG to play a full game on Tuesday and Saturday assuming Hook is injured do you get Jones on the pitch for Tuesday?

Theus

15. Rob Kearney (Kicked well and was good under the high ball)
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Luke Fitzgerald (Simply due to the poorness of Monye)
10. Ronan O'Gara (Will need to take every point we can get)
9. Mike Phillips
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Lee Mears
3. Adam Jones (Was far more superior in the scrum than Vickery)
4. Donncha O'Callaghan (Lineout seemed to calm down a bit when he came on)
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Tom Croft
7. Martyn Williams (We need a proven fetcher at the breakdown)
8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Matthew Rees
17. Andrew Sheridan
18. Nathan Hines
19. David Wallace
20. Harry Ellis
21. Stephen Jones
22. Lee Byrne

SlickRic

fitzgerald for monye.

ROG for Jones.

maybe m williams for wallace. (not main area of concern)

donnacha for wyn-jones (he's been anonymous twice now).

a jones (hayes if he proves fitness...stability at lineout time and close in tackling) for vickery.

thomond2006

Tomtom364 wrote: »

My own opinion of how the lions should line out for the second test. changes in bold

15 L Byrne (if fit)
14 T Bowe
13 B O'Driscoll
12 J Roberts
11 Kearney (played great when he came on but id still want Byrne in)
10 R O'Gara (jones played very badly and kicked horribly, ROG may have defensive issues but i think the lions are better off with him then Jones)
9 M Phillips (only real choice at SH unfortunatally)
1 G Jenkins
2 M Rees (lineouts)
3 A Jones (scrums)
4 A-W Jones
5 P O'Connell
6 T Croft
7 M Williams (need better work at the break down)
8 D Wallace (power running and supporting)



16 L Mears
17 J Hayes
18 D O'Callaghan
19 J Heaslip
20 H Ellis
21 S Jones (or J Hook, not sold on with at the moment)
22 L Fitzgerald

Rees for lineouts!! Are you mad, man? :p

Jaysus, if only we had Flannery and Best!

daveyrovers

I really don't get the calls for a proven fetcher???

A fetcher is someone like Neil Back. Where he can win turnovers and secure possesion so that you limit your own turnovers. Brussow is what you would call a fetcher but if you look at how quiet the lions backrow managed to keep him it was one of their few positives. Martyn Williams is not a fetcher, he's what they call a link man tends to keep the ball alive as oppossed to doing any fetching or securing the ball. If we need a fetcher we're in serious trouble because we didn't bring one with us.

15 L Byrne
14 T Bowe
13 B O'Driscoll
12 J Roberts
11 Fitzgerald
10 R O'Gara
9 M Phillips
1 G Jenkins
2 M Rees
3 A Jones
4 N Hines
5 P O'Connell
6 T Croft
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip



16 L Mears
17 A Sheridan
18 18 Shaw
19 A Powell
20 H Ellis
21 J Hook
22 R Kearney

For people calling for williams at 7,you do realise that you need Wallace at 7 to add bulk because Croft is so light.So if you Play Williams you cant play Croft.
Hence why Heaslip had to do so much work at the breakdown today because he had to do Crofts work aswell so he could run about.

Fishtits

Can't comment on the rest of them, but agree that O Gara is non existent in defence, he's a walkover without 7 to mind him. Pity

ScrubsfanChris

Theus wrote: »

15. Rob Kearney (Kicked well and was good under the high ball)
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Luke Fitzgerald (Simply due to the poorness of Monye)
10. Ronan O'Gara (Will need to take every point we can get)
9. Mike Phillips
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Lee Mears
3. Adam Jones (Was far more superior in the scrum than Vickery)
4. Donncha O'Callaghan (Lineout seemed to calm down a bit when he came on)
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Tom Croft
7. Martyn Williams (We need a proven fetcher at the breakdown)
8. Jamie Heaslip

+1

razorblunt

Mine XV would be:

15. Byrne (if fit)
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald (what the 1st test proved is the wing needs to be clinical)
10. ROG
9. Phillips
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Croft
5. POC
4. DOC
3. Jenkins
2. Rees
1. Jones

Could be a call for Kearney on the wing and there wouldnt be much obviously between Wallace and Williams with another shout for Wallace at 8 with Williams on the flank.

[Jackass]

The loss of Flannery and to a lesser extent O'Leary really were big ones. You'd have to bring Jenkins in for Vickery..

You could consider switches in the backrow, either Williams in for Wallace or Wallace to switch to 8 and Williams to come in, but I don't think any would make a massive difference. Wally did very well in the lose, but Williams seems better at the break down. Maybe Wally at 8? Although Heaslip was quite on tour, he's been the best 8 by a mile though.

In the backs, RO'G has to start...i think Hook is injured (?) and Jones was awfull.

I think Kearney out-shon Byrne, and injury or no injury should be a contender for full back and I'd put either Fitz or Williams on the wing (don't think I'd start Kearney on the wing..better options as wingers go) .. Prob fitz based on form, but you kind of feel for Lions management, they've done EVERYTHING to get Williams onto form and his devistating best, but it's just not happening. I wouldn't be surprised to see them throw a Hail Mary and put him on the wing again though...Moyne proves that 99% of a winger is based on finishing alone, and Fitzgerald is the best finisher of any of the players going for that spot.

corny

This stuff is amazing fellas. Over reactions everywhere. Before the first test Mears was in exclusively for his lineout throwing. Now the OP thinks Rees is in for his lineout throwing. What if Rees makes a balls of it next week will we get Ross Ford in for his lineout throwing? Also David Wallace for his power running? Thats funny because all tour and especially today all i've seen from Wallace is him being smashed back behind the gainline and if you want support running M Williams is your man not Wallace. Prior to today Heaslip was our best forward and the gameplan meant he was as good as a statue today. I'm sure he was told to pass from the base every time and not take on the Springbok loose forwards with ball in hand. What kind of message is that to send to a Number 8. Not his fault IMO. Kearney too. All he did was the basics today something Lee Byrne does 99 times out of 100. He's a fine player alright but Lee Byrne is a better player and a small cameo doesn't change that.

No need for the knee jerk reaction lads. A couple of changes are needed yes but we make 5 or 6 or 7 changes and we might aswell not turn up next week with the message we're sending.

For what its worth i've been saying all along Mears just isn't big enough to play against these lot and Rees, warts and all, should start. M Williams for the unbelievably lacklustre David Wallace would be my other change. A bit more drive and belief in the forwards and that team can have these. No question of it. Our backs are clearly superior.

Max Power1

Kearney for Monye - lets get someone in who can finish!
Jones for Vickery - Need i say more
OGara for Jones - Ditto
O'Callaghan for Jones - didnt play particularly well imo. This is contrary to what i would have said before the tour as i dont particularly rate O'Callaghan. But he seemed to improve the pack when brought on today

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

Kearney for Monye - lets get someone in who can finish!
Jones for Vickery - Need i say more
OGara for Jones - Ditto
O'Callaghan for Jones - didnt play particularly well imo. This is contrary to what i would have said before the tour as i dont particularly rate O'Callaghan. But he seemed to improve the pack when brought on today

How an you call Kearney an out and out fullback a finisher,when you have a classy winger and finisher Fitzgerald who has played 11 all year to pick from?

Baffles me.

Tomtom364

this test is do or die.
you have to fix weak spots.

i thought rees should have started before the first test aswell. and rees and mears IMO have equal throwing skill so go for the change.

jones has to start ahead of vickery! that scrum was awful!

you think williams will make more ground then wallace? wallace is a much stronger runner

the backline was looking very sharp however they were not getting good service from the forwards (due to boks domination and best set peice) or from jones. also jones kicking was shocking so ROG has to come in.

monye proved he isnt really up to it, i think kearney has impressed the most out of the remaining back 3 players and with his added kicking/catching game as well as finishing id have him in on the wing with fitz on the bench.

thats only 4 changes. considering how the match went and how these changes could make the next test go. it isnt that much of a risk and isnt kneejerk.

Moncti48

Why leave wallace at 7. Yes hes had a fantastic season, and is a much better ball carrier than Williams, but at this stage why have 3 back rows who all are good carriers and not 1 able to win the bloody ball. Heaslip has to do crofts work because Croft is a 3rd winger. Wallace carries all day but got pushed back all day!! Last week i wanted wallace at 7. However this game is do or die for the tour, things need to change. Williams can provide quick ball and is a better link player. In turn will mean Heaslip can do some running instead of having his arse in the air all day!!

Calls for Hayes at 3 is madnes. Taller than Vickery, Beast would do exactly the same to him as he did to Vickery. Jones is the best option

danthefan

ROG, Adam Jones to come in. Possibly Shaw for some ballast in the 2nd row, possibly Fitz for Monye, possibly M.Williams for Wallace.

I don't see the point in starting Kearney if Byrne is fit, Byrne has done nothing to be dropped and it seems like change for the sake of change, and I think continuity is important.. Having said that if Byrne is not fit I have no problem with Kearney starting.

I can't believe people want to revert back to Wallace at 8. Don't even know what to say.

toomevara

Honestly, some of the stuff on here post first-test is verging on the hysterical, and appears to be written by people who've never seen a game of rugby before. The Lions had a good first test, they are on the right track. If we can get parity in the scrum, which was achieved before 'the beast' was called ashore, and shore up the lineout we can win the next test, and, I'd go as far as to say win it well,with the XV who started yesterday, even the ridiculously maligned Vickery. I played rugby in the front row and, frankly, I could not get my head around many of the ref's decisions. There were some fair cops but virtually all the 50/50 calls went the way of the Boks. A different ref and a different interpretation and you'd get a different story.

We shouldn't forget that assembling a scratch team and going to SA to take on the (very settled) and reigning world champions in their own back yard is a virtually impossible task. There's a reason why Lions series wins are as rare as hen's teeth, and as one moves further into the professional era there going to become even rarer.

Keep the rattles in the pram, and keep a bit of faith. Geech knows what he's doing and I reckon we're going to see a more solid set-piece next test and that glorious 3/4 line is going to see some quick/smooth possession. That starts to happen and the Boks are going to be in a world of hurt. They had no answer at all to the kind of running lines and set pieces that Edwards with his RL background, has created...As I've said before, prior to yesterday's game I was predicting a 3-0 whitewash to the Saffies, but after yesterday I genuinely think we can take the series...(and I'm a dyed in the wool glass half-empty merchant to boot!).

Don't be under any illusions, after yesterdays test there are going to be a lot of furrowed brows in the SA camp.

jprender

A Jones for Vickery
ROG for S Jones
Wally to 6, Williams to play 7

subfreq

15. Byrne (if fit but Kearney showed great composure when he came on)
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald (Monye couldn't finish a bag of crisps. Simply awful.)
10. ROG
9. Phillips
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Croft
5. POC
4. Hines
3. Jenkins
2. Rees
1. Jones

I have never seen an international prop obliterated like Vickery yesterday. At club and provincial level yes but not International. I think Vickery gave away 9 points directly from penalties. If Jones on the back of that had of landed a few what a different game we would have had.

On the other hand I think the score line is deceptive. DeVilliers got it wrong with his subs. If he had left them on then they would have put another 10 points up and the lions wouldn't have had that late rally.

Lions have two simple things to sort out. No penalties and control their own scrum. Do that and then they can have a go. Bizarrely I think they will win the next game but if ROG plays expect Spiers and all the big guns to come flying at him.

yimrsg

Front Row
Like everyone here has already mentioned, Vickery out and Jones in. Think that Mears smaller size in the scrum is possibly one of the reasons why Vickery was so badly exposed and Rees despite his weaker throwing at lineouts might come in to bulk up the front row, hopefully negating the beast. Can't see Hayes making a start as he came into the tour so late.

Back Row
Would keep the same back row as Heaslip is our best 8 (he's on form and less likely to give away possession than Powell) and supposedly up against the worlds best in Spies but both were largely anonymous. Wallace was tried out at 8 with Blair at 9 on the tour where he was given a schooling and we haven't seen Blair come close to the test team. Wallace doesn't have the size to protect his out half at 8 in the scrum.
Croft naturally caught the eye with his two tries and in the lineout but it falls upon his back row colleagues to pick up his slack and do the donkey work. Also Williams is more of a link man in keeping moves going and being on the shoulder of line breakers. I still think he's best employed from the bench.

Second Row
Wasn't hugely impressed with our lock combination, do we drop POC or AWJ? The way we were driven back in the driving maul try has to be addressed and that means we need some size and possibly Shaw could come in to add his bulk at the scrum. Sure AWJ is better in the loose but we can't give the boks an inch.

Number 11
I know this will get shouts of traitor but I kinda want Williams in ahead of Fitzgerald for Monye! My (warped!) thinking is this, if Byrne's heel injury is as bad it means Kearney in for full back (he's not a winger or a great finisher people!) Fitzgerald is then called into the 22. He can cover several positions and is one of the most solid players so far on tour. The curse of Jack Of All Trades.
Shane Williams is a player SA fear and like BOD and Roberts, draws defenders, leaving space elsewhere. 2 possibilities if he plays; either wrongly discounted by SA due to his form or they double up on him just in case. With our rampant backs making 9 line breaks to SA's 0 he would have carved them up. Or at least grounded on of Monye's chances!

Fullback
If Byrne is fit then he should start, as the dummy line he ran which was wrongly called as crossing was sublime and would have allowed Bowe to saunter in under the posts. Also I think in terms of kicking length he can match Frans Steyn's cannon (it's a cannon because it can misfire!) better than Kearney. Tommy Bowe also stays.

12 and 13
Centre pairing complement each other and look so dangerous every time they ran at the boks, you felt a try was on. With Bowe and Bryne joining in the centres and running of their shoulders it was just magic to watch.

Scrum half
Philips needs to look both ways when he joins a ruck! Often he would send a pass to the wrong side where our forwards were and not our backs. That aside he has no real competition for the starting spot.

Out half
And finally I think Stephen Jones should start (Is that a dagger or are you just pleased to see me?) He was poor with his kicking at posts which is the most important part of O/H's game but with the way our centre's were playing, he should get some of the credit. ROG might have nailed those penalties and has a better distance on his kick but he can be less consistent. See Ireland vs England in this years 6 Nations. But that could be a reason to start him conversely as if he's playing a stormer you keep him on, if he's having a bad one take him off for Jones. There I just dismantled my own argument for Jones over ROG!

Jones
Mears (if scrum not working, then Rees)
Jenkins
Shaw
POC
Croft
Wallace
Heaslip
Philips
ROG (if he's having a off day, SJ comes on)
S Williams (Fitzgerald very unlucky)
Roberts
BOD
Bowe
Byrne (if fit, if not Kearney)

Rees (for presence in scrum; should be Rory Best)
Sheridan (our big one is bigger that your big one)
Callaghan (Reliable)
M Williams (more of an impact sub)
S Jones (Hook isn't going to help in a tight game)
Ellis (by default)
Kearney (depends on Byrne, Fitzgerald otherwise)

Requiem4adream

Team i suspect might play:

15. Byrne
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. Williams*
10. Jones
9. Phillips
8. Heaslip
7. Williams
6. Croft
5. POC
4. Shaw
3. Jones
2. Rees
1. Jenkins

*Gonna discuss the Williams issue in a seperate thread.

Aside from that, the all-Welsh front row makes a lot of sense for the next game. Not least because they steadied the scrum 2nd half but because as a unit they know exactly what each other is doing. I wouldn't be too concerned with Rees at the lineout, for the simple reason the lineout is going to be difficult no matter what. I think they might go with Shaw ahead of Hines/DOC.

Team i would like to play:

15. Byrne (if fit) - super close will explain why.
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. Fitz
10. ROG
9. Phillips
8. Heaslip
7. Williams
6. Wallace
5. POC
4. Hines
3. Jones
2. Rees
1. Jenkins


I'll start with ROG. His goal-kicking phenomenal, game control on tour has been very good, distribution flat and good, tactical kicking mostly good, tackling solid. I don't remember anyone steaming through him all tour.

Proviso: His goal kicking, whilst excellent, is a lot easier to execute in the warmup games. Everyone remembers the England game in 6N, there's no guarantee under the pressure he's as good but i'd still plump for him as Jones really hasn't done enough imo.

Wallace & Williams: Well, i've read everything this morning from the english perspective. Guardian, Telegraph, Times, Indo etc and all had Croft having a great game. Hmmm. His 2 tries were walk-ins after BOD/Roberts cut them open. Aside from that i didn't see too much to convince me he's irreplaceable. The combination of Wallace/Williams/Heaslip would be much more to my taste for the 2nd Test.

Hines in for AWJ. More aggression, more drive, more raw guts.

Byrne proved on the High Veld that his kicking and running were class. If fit, i'd still hope he plays although Kearney was immense so i'm not bothered if he's not fit, touch wood of course but from an irish perspective like to see Rob in there.

All Welsh front row defo the way to go after the last game.

Size=everything

After having time to calm down and regain my thoughts :

1.Jenkins
2.Mears
3.Jones*
4.Paul O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan *
6. Croft
7. Williams *
8.Heaslip
9.Phillips
10.Jones
11.Fitzgerald *
12.Roberts
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Byrne (Kearney if not fit)

Vickery is self explanatory. AWJ-POC combination simply doesn't work so should bring in a tried and trusted combination which is DOC-POC. Wallace's ball carrying yesterday was not up to scratch and he didn't clear rucks when Williams came on we saw a marked improvement. Moyne is in there purely for finishing and does little to make space for others if he can't finish then get Fitzgerald in.

Leslie91

razorblunt wrote: »

Mine XV would be:

15. Byrne (if fit)
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald (what the 1st test proved is the wing needs to be clinical)
10. ROG
9. Phillips
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Croft
5. POC
4. DOC
3. Jenkins
2. Rees
1. Jones

Could be a call for Kearney on the wing and there wouldnt be much obviously between Wallace and Williams with another shout for Wallace at 8 with Williams on the flank.

I'm almost in full agreement with this team. If Byrne ain't fit then Kearney comes in at 15. Maybe it is just a typo but the props should be the other way round. Rees is best of a bad lot at 2, at least he has a bit of bulk unlike Mears. Ford is a joke, should not even be on the tour.

The replacements for me - Bull, Mears, Williams, Hines, Ellis, Hook (if fit) and Kearney.

Stev_o

The only major replacement that is needed is at prop. People are forgetting that next week Berdos is reffing so they will be playing without any laws so chances are the Beast will do another job on the FR. I wouldn't be surprised see Sheridan in for Genkins to see if they can offset the SA scrum because we are still pretty screwed at the line out.

If you want to be picky you'd say ROG in for Jones to improve the goal kicking (hopefully) and to find touch which will be key in this second test.

While Wallace was poor i can't see him being dropped. Chances are Monye will get a second chance with Fitz covering the bench anyway.

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

The only major replacement that is needed is at prop. People are forgetting that next week Berdos is reffing so they will be playing without any laws so chances are the Beast will do another job on the FR. I wouldn't be surprised see Sheridan in for Genkins to see if they can offset the SA scrum because we are still pretty screwed at the line out.

If you want to be picky you'd say ROG in for Jones to improve the goal kicking (hopefully) and to find touch which will be key in this second test.

While Wallace was poor i can't see him being dropped. Chances are Monye will get a second chance with Fitz covering the bench anyway.

They destroyed our lineout, not sure a load of touchfinders are what we need.

Tomtom364

Sheridan will probly be out with that back injury

taidghbaby

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rees for lineouts!! Are you mad, man? :p

Jaysus, if only we had Flannery and Best!

kept goin through my head during the match yesterday :mad:

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

They destroyed our lineout, not sure a load of touchfinders are what we need.

Because constantly kicking into the hands of Steyn Pieterson and Habanna was a good idea.

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

Because constantly kicking into the hands of Steyn Pieterson and Habanna was a good idea.

Did they do something particularly good with the ball? I must have missed it.

You are suggesting we play to SAs biggest strength. It makes no sense.

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

Did they do something particularly good with the ball? I must have missed it.

You are suggesting we play to SAs biggest strength. It makes no sense.

They kicked it back much better then us found space and stole out line out hence when Kearney came on and started finding touch we found ourselves under less pressure.

themont85

I'd keep Wallace in my team tbh, Williams is a great guy to bring on from 55 mins onward when the game is broken up. In fact I don't blame the backrow yesterday at all for their loose play. They got over the gain line, cleared rucks and supported well. Croft had a stormer I felt regardless of his tries. The Lions problems were at lineout/scrum and at the lineout, yes maybe they were at fault but it seemed to be a very system like fault.

I'd keep Meers, the lineout wasn't totally his fault and Rees is an accident waiting to happen. I'd consider swapping AWJ for Hines/DOC(Shaw is too slow for test level despite Sky/S Jones mutterings). Jones for Vickery because of the scrum and the ref next week will be all over that like a rash. Scrum half, the same. Maybe ROG for S Jones cos we need a goalkicker to keep us in touch early on! BOD/Roberts are for keeps. Bowe has to stay because he got limited chances yesterday and is still the form winger. Monye is out of my team for reasons i've expressed elsewhere for Fitz/Williams. Kearney at full back even if Byrne is fit imo. Kearney's form is on a upward curve every game.

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

They kicked it back much better then us found space and stole out line out hence when Kearney came on and started finding touch we found ourselves under less pressure.

I don't really follow you to be honest.

Ciaran-Irl

If Sheridan is fit, there is a case for moving Jenkins to Three and playing Sheridan at loosehead.

I'd bring Hines or DOC in at 4 and I'd put Kearney in for Monye at 11. That's it I reckon.

I don't think I'd be bothered changing Mears. The options we have there are appalling. Did nobody notice that STUPID reversed penalty from Rees's punch? Yeah, I'd love to see Rory Best, but I may as well say that I'd replace Monye with Lomu at 11.

Riskymove

danthefan wrote: »

I don't really follow you to be honest.

IMO the basic point is you are better off giving the Boks a lineout in their own half than just giving Steyne or others the ball

buck65

My team for 2nd test.
Jenkins, Rees, Jones, DOC, POC, Croft, Williams, Heaslip (just about), Philips, O Gara, Monye, Roberts, O Driscoll, Bowe, Byrne

RuggieBear

yep. would agree with that.

SalthillGuy

SlickRic wrote: »

fitzgerald for monye.

ROG for Jones.

maybe m williams for wallace. (not main area of concern)

donnacha for wyn-jones (he's been anonymous twice now).

a jones (hayes if he proves fitness...stability at lineout time and close in tackling) for vickery.

I agree with the first two choices, even if we look a little biased.

Stealdo

buck65 wrote: »

My team for 2nd test.
Jenkins, Rees, Jones, DOC, POC, Croft, Williams, Heaslip (just about), Philips, O Gara, Monye, Roberts, O Driscoll, Bowe, Byrne

Agree with the areas being addressed there alright.

Glad some people are resisting the clamour against Byrne and Monye. A few days ago we'd people saying that Byrne was the best full back in the world and in top form and now all of a sudden he should be dropped. Monye made a couple of errors (big ones) but is unlikely to do that again. Tight call with Fitzgerald, but he could hang on.

The decision to replace Flannery with Ford rather than Rory Best now looks like a big error.

kingking85

I'd switch Wallace to 6 and bring in Williams at 7 with Heaslip at 8 - two opensides on the pitch would be no harm. I personally feel that Croft didnt add too much to the test other than his support for the 2 tries - hes a good lineout option but if they move wallace to 6, Heaslip would have to be used a lot more at the tail.

Nathan Hines or Donncha at second row would be a good call too. Jones looked lost beside POC in the test. Definitely need to bring O'Gara in for Jones at 10 and make sure we kick any penalities that come our way. Those 6 points Jones coughed up cost us the game in the end!

Stev_o

Where is the idea that Croft did sweet feck all coming from? I know every poster in MF hate him with a passion but he was colossal yesterday and was every present at tackling rucking and restarts and tracked well to get his two tries. His ball in hand work also was much more threatening then Heaslip or Wallace.

kingking85

Croft was dominated in all collision areas- as was the entire lions squad!! Wallace is a more powerful backrow player suited to playing against the springboks, Martyn Williams needs to be on to link up better with the backs and improve the overall flow of play

Tomtom364

Stealdo wrote: »

Glad some people are resisting the clamour against Byrne and Monye. A few days ago we'd people saying that Byrne was the best full back in the world and in top form and now all of a sudden he should be dropped.

i havnt seen anyone saying byrne should be dropped. the question is over his fittness.

and i suggest kearney in for monye more for the added kicking game then monyes performance

Stealdo

Tomtom364 wrote: »

i havnt seen anyone saying byrne should be dropped. the question is over his fittness.

and i suggest kearney in for monye more for the added kicking game then monyes performance

Well - there seems to be consensus that Kearney should start with pretty much means Byrne shouldn't. Unless of course you mean the above, but I wouldn't have thought Kearney on the wing was a real option. We'll see though.

nacho libre

15. Lee Byrne
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Jamie Roberts
11 Monye
10. Ronan O'Gara
9. Mike Phillips
1. Andrew Sheridan
2. Lee Mears
3. Adam Jones
4. Shaw
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Tom Croft
7. Martyn Williams
8. Jamie Heaslip

Requiem4adream

nacho libre wrote: »

15. Lee Byrne
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Jamie Roberts
11 Monye
10. Ronan O'Gara
9. Mike Phillips
1. Andrew Sheridan
2. Lee Mears
3. Adam Jones
4. Shaw
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Tom Croft
7. Martyn Williams
8. Jamie Heaslip

Injury doubts surrounding Sheridan but that aside Jenkins had a decent game and has surely done enough on tour to keep his place.

deepriver

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. BODriscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. OGara
9. Phillips
8. Powell or Worsely
7. Williams
6. Croft
5. POC
4. Shaw
3. Jenkins
2. Rees
1. Jones

- Kearney & Fitzgerald are now world class finishers, finishing was a major factor in the 1st test loss, S Williams on the bench in case 1 missfires

- Jones had no impact at 10, O Gara will either wilt under severe pressure or have a profound effect with a controlling kicking and passing game, anyway that dice needs to be rolled in the second test

- Heaslip is not physically up to the challenge and we need to bring in an enforcer like Worsely or Powell (is he injured?), the 97 tour was one off the back of a strong pack

- The pack was dominated in the lose and around the park last match, Shaw needs to come in and add some bulk and edge, while Williams needs to counteract the ball winning skills of Brussow their new number 7

- Welsh front row in the second half seemed to match the Boks front row