Avensis or Volvo S40

Maximus_Laggus

Which one to buy? 2005, Toyota Avensis, 2 Litre Diesel, 50k miles, good spec. Or, 2006 Volvo S40, 2 litre diesel, 51k miles, good spec? both similar price.

What to do??? Help and opinions please

colm_mcm

S40 is more Corolla sized. depends on what you want out of a car really.

Engines:
Avensis will have the older 116bhp engine, AFAIK, the S40 is 136, so the Volvo will definately be faster, As it's based on the Ford Focus, it's also a better drive than the Avensis.

Interior:
Avensis is pretty inoffensive, very well built inside, but nothing exciting, excellent space, particularly in the back. no folding seats except on Luna model. S40 is beautifully finished, with some lovely touches like the radio/climate layout with storage behind it. but very cramped in the rear and the boot is an akward shape.

Safety:
Both cars have 5 star safety, the Avensis has the benefit of a knee airbag over the S40 - but depensing on spec may not have VSC, which is standard on the S40.

The Avensis is the relative plain jane here, but it does a lot of things very well.

Maximus_Laggus

Cheers colm_mcm.

For looks, the S40 is way better imo than the Avensis. I just dont know anything about Volvos. Are they expensive to maintain etc., I have to test drive the Volvo tomorrow. I found the Avensis a bit sluggish in 1st and 2nd gear in a test drive the other day but the higher gears and power was fine. The Volvo has a turbo so we'll see what difference that makes. I'm a petrol head though and this will be my first diesel car.

colm_mcm

Maximus_Laggus wrote: »

. I found the Avensis a bit sluggish in 1st and 2nd gear in a test drive the other day but the higher gears and power was fine. The Volvo has a turbo so we'll see what difference that makes. I'm a petrol head though and this will be my first diesel car.

The Avensis has a turbo too

they upgraded the engine to 126bhp in mid 2006 (models that have indicators on the wing mirrors have this engine) and gave the Avensis a 6 speed gearbox, 1st and 2nd on the 2005 Avensis are quite long, so the car will feel a bit sluggish when cold (this improves once the engine warms up) but on the 2006 6 speed model they changed the gear ratios and made the engine more powerful at low revs.

the S40 diesel will be quite quick, as for servicing costs, it wouldn't be a whole lot more than the Toyota to service, parts are more expensive.

The major trump card the Avensis will have is space, especially if you have kids.

bazz26

I have experience of owning both cars.

Had a 2003 1.8 litre petrol Avensis similar to the one your looking at for over 4 years. Great car for long journeys and racking up the miles. Plenty of space in the rear and a large boot. Basically it is a class above the S40 in size. Not quiet build as well as previous Toyotas and do suffer from the odd problem but the comprehensive warranty gives you peace of mind. Known issue with them at the time was the headlights, inside condensation and the lense melting but they should have been replaced under warranty by now. The D-4D was also known to need a new Dual Mass Flywheel on cars with over 100k miles. But if you want a no frills solid reliable medium size family saloon wth good dealer support then the Avensis ticks alot of boxes. A good website for information is the http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/.

I currently drive a 2006 1.6d S40 SE, Avensis cannot match it for spec, things like leather heated seats, cd changer, cruise control, etc, all standard on the SE. Downside is though that it is based on the Ford Focus so compared to an Avensis the rear of the S40 is tight and while the boot is decent enough in size access it is very narrow and it is not deep. The car is nice to drive(being based on the Focus)and the seats are the most comfortable I have seat in since first owning a car. It feels solid enough on the road but while the 1.6d is fine for town driving given the choice again I would opt for the 2.0d instead.

The S40 is expensive new but they do depreciate quite heavily which makes them very good value second hand. The previous owner originally paid over twice what I paid for my S40 three years ago. The negative points, Volvo dealers are known to be expensive for servicing, parts, etc but my car is well outside of the Volvo warranty so it will never see a Volvo dealer for servicing. The S40 has lots of electrical gadgets and sensors and some like to play up every know and then. Only a couple of weeks ago the interior door lock button decided it didn't want to work, the next day it was fine and hasn't failed since. The stereo and cd changer are also known to fail and costs about €800 to replace from a Volvo dealer. Good information can also be found here: http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/

Maximus_Laggus

Thanks all for the replies. I'll test drive the S40 and let you know how that goes by posting back here.

mickdw

If you have any respect for yourself, dont buy the bland toyota. It is a bigger car but god they are so bad. The interior is crap and top tip: When opening the boot, be careful. Its a bit on the light side and is not damped at all and feels like it might come away in your hand. Coming from any other car in its class, it just doesnt feel good enough, I mean everything about it, not just the boot. It just feels like it is built on the cheap for the people who have always bought toyota and wont change regardless. Dont even get me started on the petrol versions... Start them up from cold and you get a big rev for the first few mins. I havent seen this in a new car for about 15 years... I nearly went searching for the choke to push in.

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

and top tip: When opening the boot, be careful. Its a bit on the light side and is not damped at all and feels like it might come away in your hand.

How is this a top tip? why does someone need to be careful?

Berty

I went through the same recently considering which vehicle to tell my boss I would prefer.

The Spec on the volvo I would like it the SE.

The Spec on the Avensis I would like is the Strata.

The SE Volvo has all the goodies including leather but is far more expensive that the Avensis.

The style and looks of the Volvo are also much nicer.

VolvoMan

Is nobody mentioning that the Volvo is also far more prestigious?

mickdw

colm_mcm wrote: »

How is this a top tip? why does someone need to be careful?

Jeez, add a pinch of salt. I was trying to draw OPs attention to the poor quality (imo) of the materials used. Ive told many people this before going to look at an avensis in the past. Most come back saying that it really is let down by the feeling of being cheap built. Now this would be ok except for the fact that it priced alittle on the high side.

JHMEG

mickdw wrote: »

When opening the boot, be careful. Its a bit on the light side and is not damped at all and feels like it might come away in your hand.

Boot lids are quite heavy. The fact that it feels light is a sign it's perfectly counter balanced.

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

Jeez, add a pinch of salt. I was trying to draw OPs attention to the poor quality (imo) of the materials used.

It's just the way it's weighted, admittedly the action on the boot door of a Passat is nicer, but it's hardly something to be wary of, it's just the way they designed it. it's very easy to open/close.

mickdw

JHMEG wrote: »

Boot lids are quite heavy. The fact that it feels light is a sign it's perfectly counter balanced.

Yes crudely counter balanced. It pops up all the way and bounces off its stoppers. Compare this to most cars in its price range, and its just sh1te.
Light and damped is good. Nobody wants a heavy bootlid but light and springy, not so good.
This also pretty much sums up the car as a whole. Built on the cheap.

colm_mcm

I dunno, each to their own, I've been selling them for years now and they're unbelievably reliable, plus the ones I sold 6 years ago are coming in as trade ins and don't need major prep work to get them on the forecourt, the interiors look the same as they did when they went out (mechanisms still working, dash plastics still intact, door handles not peeling rubber off, seats still in shape).

very few so-called "high quality" cars (Passats, 3 series, A4s etc) do this. you're looking at spending huge amounts of money on servicing and repairs, extinguishing warning lights on the dash, ordering in door pulls, electric window switches because all the rubberised coating has peeled off the plastic. now if that's what quality is about, and if it's measured on the action of a silicone damped grab handle or cupholder then I give up

If the Avensis is built "on the cheap", how come they wear so well?

The 5dr Liftback model has a lovely heavy boot if that's what you're after

mickdw

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's just the way it's weighted, admittedly the action on the boot door of a Passat is nicer, but it's hardly something to be wary of, it's just the way they designed it. it's very easy to open/close.

I would regard Passat as much better. Im fussy about these kind of things
Ive been brought up on audis and taking something like a late 1980s audi 80, you get a nice gas strut setup.
Its also nice on a 30k car to have gas strut to hold the bonnet up. I dont think avensis gets this either.
Its just the whole feel of the thing. Poor interior, poor driving position on base models with NO height adjustment of drivers seat. That lifeless steering, that rubbery gearchange (Clutch is nice though). Even the central locking makes a boring clunk.
Dont mention the 1.6 petrol engine

mickdw

colm_mcm wrote: »

The 5dr Liftback model has a lovely heavy boot if that's what you're after

No thanks. No avensis for me, I prefer to sit in my car not on top of it as the base avensis seems to make the driver do.

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

Its also nice on a 30k car to have gas strut to hold the bonnet up. I dont think avensis gets this either.

You don't have to lift the bonnet as much on an Avensis! look, you make fair points in that certain features that the Avensis doesn't have are nice to have on a car - but to argue that the Avensis is poor quality because of this is ridiculous.

Incidentally, the new model Avensis solves most of your issues with the old one (apart from it not being German, obviously)

mickdw

As you say, you are seeing them coming back in good order after years of service, I would have to agree that they would be reliable etc, reasonable to run/own but they just dont have anything about them.

Its down to the type of person. Does an avensis driver ever just go for a drive for no other reason than to just drive? I doubt it.

colm_mcm

I think anyone who is a pure petrolhead should be looking beyond Avensis's, Passats and Mondeos. You say you like Audis, would you drive an A4 1.6 for any other reason other than getting from one place to another?



I think the Avensis does what it's supposed to do, it has bundles of safety equipment, including a drivers knee airbag on all models since launch in 2003, the suspension is very comfortable, the cabin is quiet and has plenty of room, it has a large boot, they're very easy to drive, they're reliable, come with a very good warranty package whick in all likelyhood won't be called upon. That's what an Avensis is for in my opinion, it's not designed to outhandle a Lotus, it's not supposed to compete with a Laguna or 407 on gimmicky features, it's not supposed to be a Passat, it's an Avensis - and like it or not, a lot of people are very happy with theirs.

your original argument was that the Toyota was badly built, that's the only thing I have an issue with , the rest is subjective, and you're entitled to that opinion.

bazz26

mickdw wrote: »

As you say, you are seeing them coming back in good order after years of service, I would have to agree that they would be reliable etc, reasonable to run/own but they just dont have anything about them.

Its down to the type of person. Does an avensis driver ever just go for a drive for no other reason than to just drive? I doubt it.

Does your average Passat driver?

pburns

mickdw wrote: »

I would regard Passat as much better. Im fussy about these kind of things
Ive been brought up on audis and taking something like a late 1980s audi 80, you get a nice gas strut setup.
Its also nice on a 30k car to have gas strut to hold the bonnet up. I dont think avensis gets this either.
Its just the whole feel of the thing. Poor interior, poor driving position on base models with NO height adjustment of drivers seat. That lifeless steering, that rubbery gearchange (Clutch is nice though). Even the central locking makes a boring clunk.
Dont mention the 1.6 petrol engine

First of all, I'm an ex-Avensis owner who would never touch one again. Not because it was unreliable but because it was the most boring, ill-handling car I ever owned. I was far too young for it when I got it - got a 'good deal' at the time on a nearly-new example...

Having said that I'd take mickdw's comments with a large pinch of salt. Mick, aren't you the guy who has/had an almost undrivable FWD A5? All the anti-Jap, pro-German stuff posted on here annoys me. I certainly wouldn't regard a Passat as 'much better'. On a superfical level the VW is superior with it's gas-struts and soft-touch plastics. It's all surface gloss though. If I was an ordinary Joe wanting reliable transport over the next few years I'd take the Avensis. Also, I'd rather deal with a Toyota dealer than a VW one - just a nicer (better trained) group of people. Toyota behaved impecibly when I had a warranty issue - that's why people keep going back.

As regards the 1.6 engine - it's certainly not as bad as the 1.9 TDI tractor unit VW flogged in the Passat for years and years...

Having said that...OP - if you don't need the space, get the S40....

snowman707

colm_mcm wrote: »

I dunno, each to their own, I've been selling them for years now and they're unbelievably reliable, plus the ones I sold 6 years ago are coming in as trade ins and don't need major prep work to get them on the forecourt, the interiors look the same as they did when they went out (mechanisms still working, dash plastics still intact, door handles not peeling rubber off, seats still in shape).

very few so-called "high quality" cars (Passats, 3 series, A4s etc) do this. you're looking at spending huge amounts of money on servicing and repairs, extinguishing warning lights on the dash, ordering in door pulls, electric window switches because all the rubberised coating has peeled off the plastic. now if that's what quality is about, and if it's measured on the action of a silicone damped grab handle or cupholder then I give up

If the Avensis is built "on the cheap", how come they wear so well?

The 5dr Liftback model has a lovely heavy boot if that's what you're after

Personally I have no experience of either car, but I know of 4 families in the immediate area here that have gone from Passats to Toyota (3 avensis & 1 corolla estate) in the last year or so.

A rep that calls to me has changed from VW to Skoda & doesn't intend to change back. This guy is doing between 120 -150K Kms per annum.

mickdw

pburns wrote: »

Mick, aren't you the guy who has/had an almost undrivable FWD A5?

Yep, the very one! It is a ball of sh1te to be honest. We have had many audis and they were all great... the older ones best really. This is the first disappointing one. Had a TT previously and it was a really great car and certainly could live with mayo roads much much better than A5 in relation to steering setup etc. Will be sampling another brand in 2010 hopefully or a TT quattro

I know it only my opinion of the avensis, but really they could have tried a little harder with the detail stuff. Perhaps they have on the latest model. saying that, I think its very ugly. IMO a commercial landcruiser has much better materials inside. Its the only toyota I would buy.

Stevie Dakota

I drove a 1.6 Avensis while my Focus was being serviced. 24 hours later I couldn't wait to be shot of it. I hated everything about it (bar the thunk of the doors closing). Everything I touched felt nasty. There are people who like cars, and people who think nothing of them, they buy cars like the Avensis.

Zube

pburns wrote: »

Mick, aren't you the guy who has/had an almost undrivable FWD A5?

Well, he is a guy who has been savage in his criticism of the Audi A5, that he bought himself.

I don't see how that makes his views on Avensisesess less useful.

Me, I've never driven an Avensis, and the only S40 I ever drove was a Zombie: the Volvo of the Living Dead.

So I'm no help. Buy a mondeo!

joey54

My opinion is purely based on looks as I wouldn't have that much knowledge in regards to engines and all that Jazz!

I'd go for the s40. I think it looks way nicer and much more classy. To me the avensis just looks like a big box with wheels on it.

Biro

snowman707 wrote: »

Personally I have no experience of either car, but I know of 4 families in the immediate area here that have gone from Passats to Toyota (3 avensis & 1 corolla estate) in the last year or so.

A rep that calls to me has changed from VW to Skoda & doesn't intend to change back. This guy is doing between 120 -150K Kms per annum.

150k kms per year? 93,000 miles in a year? Not a hope, not unless he's in the UK and is always on motorways. The only car I've ever seen in this country with over 90k miles in one year was a taxi that was operated on 3 shifts, so basically driven 24 hours a day by 3 drivers. Besides, I wouldn't go by the general public either, there'd be plenty more stories of people changing from Toyota to VW and not going back.
The Volvo is OK, over rated, but nice enough. not a bad overall package. The Avensis would be slightly more comfortable on longer trips and a lot more spacious, depends on what you're after. The Avensis gets more crap on boards than it deserves. It's fine, it's not supposed to be exciting. And the 1.6 petrol isn't near as bad as the 1.6 dung Audi have been fitting for years!
I don't get the "ill-handling" comment though...

snowman707

Biro wrote: »

150k kms per year? 93,000 miles in a year? Not a hope, not unless he's in the UK and is always on motorways. The only car I've ever seen in this country with over 90k miles in one year was a taxi that was operated on 3 shifts, so basically driven 24 hours a day by 3 drivers. Besides, I

you need to live in the real world of motoring for a while,
the rep is covering munster with a run to donegal once a week returning via dublin.
my brother in law had a mini bus which he was putting 160k miles per year on, he is now semi retired only 80k miles a year now.

Personally up to 4 years ago I was clocking 1200 - 1800 miles a week as well as 1500 to 1800 hours per year on agricultural tractors.

Japanese vehicles have served us well over the last 25 years.

buying second hand I would purchase a vehicle 1-3 year old with 70-100K miles well before i would buy an older vehicle with smaller mileage.

mikedragon32

I have an S40 (06 SE Lux) and love it. The only time I look at Avensises (is that the proper plural of Avensis) in envy is when the boot is open and I can see all that lovely space for stuff that I can't get into my car!

The shape of the boot is rather akward and it's tricky to get bulky items in.

In terms of servicing, the bill makes me want to cry. Maybe it's just the dealer I go to is creaming me. Seriously considering just going to Advance next year! (Would that be such a bad thing?)

Biro

snowman707 wrote: »

you need to live in the real world of motoring for a while,

What a stupid comment. Are you always like that?

Zube

igglou

I've had 3 S40s (05,06 & 07) and would recommend one over a Toyota no problem. Volvo is a different class of car, and when I got my first one in Jan 05 just after the new model came out, it was a head turner. There are a lot more on the road now but its still a classy looking car.

Like others have said the boot space is odd and not a lot of it which is a pain if you need it. Thats why I changed from the S40 this year.

The standard SE spec makes up for the space issue a 1000 times over though. The seats are comfort personified, none of the stiff achey body you normally get after a long drive in most other cars. I upgraded my 3 to the premium sound stereo as I love my music and I added on heated seats and after that there really is nothing more you could add that it doesn't already have.

One thing though, I always had cream leather but the driver's seat wears badly very quick. I'm not sure this is as noticable with black leather.

Another thing, you are right to buy second hand. All mine were new and I never noticed the depreciation greatly until I went to change my 07 in Jan. What a shock I got though this is mostly due to the fact that it was 1.8 petrol. I paid 33k in Jan 07 for mine with the winter pack and premium sound stereo. All the volvo dealers I tried for a trade-in were only offering 14k!!! :eek:

As for servicing, yes it can be pricey but look around. I tried most of the dealers as I was servicing nearly twice a year with the milage I was clocking up. what annoyed me was location. Living in Cavan I had to take a day off to service the car in Dublin mostly up to the last service when I tried the new dealership in Drogheda. Some of them I would stay far far away on customer service as well as cost and only 1 or 2 I'd recommend.

HTH and isn't too rambly :rolleyes:

Drummerboy08

One of the big reasons I steer away from the Toyota when im quoting, is the fact that it needs to be serviced every 15,000kms. AFAIK, the Volvo is every 20,000kms. It may sound like a small difference, but over 90,000kms, thats an extra 2 services, so an extra €600 +.

IMO, the Volvo is a much nicer car too. Unless you need the space of the Avensis, i'd go for the S40.