Leasehold and freehold land in my garden help

paddy086

Leasehold and freehold land in my garden help

Hello my problem is this, I want to build a house in my mother’s garden
We own the front part of the garden as freehold but the back garden is lease hold
I have gone to Dublin city counsel and it took 6 months for them to get back to me with a price of €45000 to make the section I want from leasehold to freehold.

If you seen the size of land I need to buy it very small but the DCC don’t price on the size they make up prices on the value the land has. E.g. that I can build on it or sell it and make a profit…….. I don’t want to sell it I just want to build my house for my self and my wife.

So im stuck the land I own is not enough to build my house on and the land that is leasehold dose not in my opinion cast €45000 can any one help me in what I can do


Thank you

Victor

Are you able to buy it out under the Ground Rents Acts? Or is the lease expired?

paddy086

Victor wrote: »

Are you able to buy it out under the Ground Rents Acts? Or is the lease expired?

hi victor
the lease is 150 years i say we are only 35 years into the lease or so. are solisitor applied to the dcc to buy the ground from them thinking it would only be 12 time the yearly rent so about €2000. the DCC say this is not the case. is that the ground rents acts

i have uploaded a picture of the site. we leasehold whats in green we own whats in red as freehold. and whats in blue we want to own as freehold. as you can see there is a garage on the right hand side. thats been there for 32 years so im hopeing there might be a law to go for something like squaters rights or somthing

juke

Paddy - leasehold title is good title if there's more than 70 years to go on the lease. Is it really necessary to buy the freehold?

paddy086

juke wrote: »

Paddy - leasehold title is good title if there's more than 70 years to go on the lease. Is it really necessary to buy the freehold?

HI JUKE ya if i want the bit of land that is marked blue on the picture i need to buy it to make it freehold you cant build on it otherwise

dats_right

juke wrote: »

Paddy - leasehold title is good title if there's more than 70 years to go on the lease. Is it really necessary to buy the freehold?

That's not the primary issue here. In fairness, it would be total lunacy to build this site without first acquiring the freehold interest. Owing to the fact that original lease will invariably contain covenants and conditions, one of which will be a restriction on building on the site, so if the OP was to build a home on the site they would be in breach of the original lease and the property would thus be unmarketable and unsellable as well as being impossible to use as security for a mortgage, etc.

My advice OP is to talk with your solicitor to discuss your options regarding renegotiating the price or what, if any, other options or remedies you may have under the Landlord and Tenant Acts.

Victor

€45000 isn't that bad a price.

paddy086 wrote: »

we leasehold whats in green we own whats in red as freehold.

Is this correct? They rent the house, but outright own the site in front of the garage?

are solisitor applied to the dcc to buy the ground from them thinking it would only be 12 time the yearly rent so about €2000. the DCC say this is not the case. is that the ground rents acts

It would be. Do councils have an exemption or is there soemthing else at play? The multiple has changed over the years, i thought it was about 20 times the annual rent.

paddy086

Victor wrote: »

€45000 isn't that bad a price.Is this correct? They rent the house, but outright own the site in front of the garage?

It would be. Do councils have an exemption or is there soemthing else at play? The multiple has changed over the years, i thought it was about 20 times the annual rent.

well it could be 20 time the year rent but it it would still be under €5000 do
they dont seam to do it on the ground rent anymore.

juke

dats_right wrote: »

In fairness, it would be total lunacy to build this site without first acquiring the freehold interest. Owing to the fact that original lease will invariably contain covenants and conditions, one of which will be a restriction on building on the site, so if the OP was to build a home on the site they would be in breach of the original lease and the property would thus be unmarketable and unsellable as well as being impossible to use as security for a mortgage, etc.

Many but by no means all leases have restrictions on building - and these restrictions can often be overcome by relying on the provisions 1967 Act.
It very much depends on the terms of the lease and the type of building proposed.

Victor wrote: »

Do councils have an exemption or is there soemthing else at play? The multiple has changed over the years, i thought it was about 20 times the annual rent.

I'm not aware of any exemption - I presume the OP can't meet the criteria set out in the Ground Rents legislation.

paddy086

with the leashold agreement you are intitaled to use the land for gardening porpuses. e.g planting but you can build a garage on the land as long as its under so much footage and its not used as a business.

at them moment the DCC are looking into a way of sorting this out for us but with the way times are now i think thay want as much money as they can get....

i look like before the building boom any one with a leasehold aggremnt on there land could pay 12 or 20 time the year rent to make it freehold./...but these people were making a proffit on the land by building a house and selling it...... so the DCC changed this rule to stop people making money on the land and cutting DCC out of deal of making money..

but this is what they are saying to me anyway

my solisitor when we first started to look for a freehold agrement was hoping we would get it under the 12 to 20 year rent.... but i dont know now what we will do.

i know 45000 not alot of money when you think of it but if you want to build a house and put as much money into it as posible and not into the land..... it realy p*ss me of thinking we own the land but we cant build on it cos of som outdated act :mad:

dats_right

juke wrote: »

Many but by no means all leases have restrictions on building - and these restrictions can often be overcome by relying on the provisions 1967 Act.
It very much depends on the terms of the lease and the type of building proposed.

Just a few points.

1. Very few leases do not contain a restrictive covenant prohibiting erection of a building, etc. Really the only type of lease which wouldn't normally have such a restriction might be a building lease granted to a builder specifically for building a premise. Certainly a lease from Dublin Corporation (now City Council) will virtually certainly have such a restriction on development save with their specific consent (which I'm guessing won't be forthcoming?)

2. In relation to overcoming these covenants, I say that the 1967 Act in addition to extending the grounds for acquiring a freehold interest, does provide some 'relaxations' of certain restrictive covenants contained in certain types of leases. In effect section 29 permits alteration of user and improvement within meaning of 1958 Act, which "In relation to buildings means any addition to or alteration of the buildings and includes any structure which is subsidiary or ancillary to the said buildings but does not include any alteration or reconstruction of the buildings so that they lose their original identity".

Clearly erecting a new structure would not seem to be covered by the relaxation provision and thus I very much doubt whether the 1967 Act would be of any benefit whatsoever in this instance.

I would stand by my original thesis that no freehold= no development.



I'm not aware of any exemption - I presume the OP can't meet the criteria set out in the Ground Rents legislation.
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