Need advice regarding staff and socialising

Frank Tank

I own a small company - staff of 5
We work in a business were any mistake can cause us to lose a client.
And it is near impossible to get a client back.

Two of my staff - the only women - are planning to met up with the staff of our largest client. These girls like their drink and one is newly single.

Within the business, this is frowned upon by management of these large companies. It is outside hours and outside the office.

And things are very delicate at the moment with this client and our competitors are fighting tooth and nail for what limited work there is.

I want to tell them not to go, but I know the girls will take offense.

Can anyone give me advice or tell me what they did in a similar situation?

Help....they are going in two weeks time.

Very interested to see the outcome but don't think there is a lot you can do about it unless there was a clause in their contract to begin with but even still, they are allowed do what they want outside of work. The fact you know about it gives me the impression they are not very subtle if it is frowned upon in the industry, but as long as they don't know any key info, i wouldn't worry about it.

You're basically afraid of them getting ****faced, going out with one of the other staff, breaking up and then making it awkward in the future? If it's just front line staff, is it that big a deal?

Bandara

Frank Tank wrote: »

I own a small company - staff of 5
We work in a business were any mistake can cause us to lose a client.
And it is near impossible to get a client back.

Two of my staff - the only women - are planning to met up with the staff of our largest client. These girls like their drink and one is newly single.

Within the business, this is frowned upon by management of these large companies. It is outside hours and outside the office.

And things are very delicate at the moment with this client and our competitors are fighting tooth and nail for what limited work there is.

I want to tell them not to go, but I know the girls will take offense.

Can anyone give me advice or tell me what they did in a similar situation?

Help....they are going in two weeks time.

So what if they take offense? I'd rather have my staff in a huff for a few days than lose a large client. I seen this happen first hand years back, company I was working with had Eagle Star as their largest client, sales guys in my company went out on the beer with staff in eagle star. About 3 months later at the annual contract renewal we were told we were losing the contract, there was a few reasons but one that was mentioned more than once was the management of Eagle Star were very uncomfortable with staff who were involved in spending the companies money going out socially with staff who were involved in selling products to the company.

If youe worried about the negative effect stopping them going might have on your team, then just say you have received a call from the client who has said they are not happy with them all going out. You can then 'ask' your staff not to go.

Its far too much of a needless risk if this is a big client of yours, one incident on that ight out and it all points directly back against you

Bandara

Deleted User wrote: »

Very interested to see the outcome but don't think there is a lot you can do about it unless there was a clause in their contract to begin with but even still, they are allowed do what they want outside of work. The fact you know about it gives me the impression they are not very subtle if it is frowned upon in the industry, but as long as they don't know any key info, i wouldn't worry about it.

You're basically afraid of them getting ****faced, going out with one of the other staff, breaking up and then making it awkward in the future? If it's just front line staff, is it that big a deal?

Yes, your front line staff are the day to day porfessional face of the company, if the person they are dealing with has seen them in uncompromising situation etc then they lose all professional respect that they have built up with the client. You need to remember the people working in the big company don't give a monkeys, if the posters company is replaced by a competitor the big companies staff will hardly even notice, they just want a night on the beer, it has no repercussions for them.

Unlike the OP's company

Yeah totally agree, but would they be going out with the senior staff of the other company? And even still, are you allowed stop them? Are you interfering with their rights or anything if it's not in the contract to begin with?

*Still learning...:)

edanto

I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to have an informal sit-down with them and explain how the management of your client would view this, explain the risks to them and at that stage they'll probably see how their jobs depend on them being professional, even in a social setting.

You're looking out for their jobs and their future, just you have a perspective that they don't have and I'd hope they understand that.

blue4ever

Completely agree with the OP
You can talk to the until you/they are blue in the face - and they can meet who they like outside office hours. -
You have to impress on them that whilst it's 'socialising', there is a business aspect to it.

Sposs

As others have said , simply explain that whilst they are there ,*they are representing the company and its not like being out with friends , so watch how much they drink and try and behave casual but professional when dealing with staff from the other company. You never know who your actually talking to at the bar at events like this. Could be nobody or the MD

D-Boy

You have absolutely no right to dictate what staff can do out of hours the total cheek of you

antoinolachtnai

I have to say that in businesses that I've been involved in, this hasn't been the issue. Going out with the client is part and parcel of the whole deal. But I know other industries are different.

They can always go behind your back and meet them anyway no matter what you do or say. Then everything will be out of your knowledge and control.

Whatever else you do, whether you tell them not to go or not, whether they listen to you or not, they need to know the score as you explained it above. It is going to be a bit of an awkward conversation, but there's no reason why they should take offence.

They need to know exactly what is at stake and what your concerns are. You need to explain the reasons for your concerns. You need to explain how important confidentiality is and how important it is to keep what is in the office in the office (I'd guess that is a concern for you).

You might find that you have to tell them a bit more about your business than you would normally be comfortable telling your employees. But those are the times we live in.

Beyond that, I think you are going to have to depend on your employees' judgement. You hired these people, so you have some degree of confidence in them.

Unless your employees don't read newspapers or are very dim (and I am sure they are not) they should be able see that if you lose this business, they could be out of a job.

At best, they might reconsider the whole thing. They might even have some input for you on the sales front, since they have obviously have some sort of personal relationship with your client. At worst, they will be more careful and circumspect.

I notice you remark that these are the only women you have working for you. I am reading into that that your client has a largely male workforce. You are lucky as regards one thing - there are two of them, so maybe they can keep each other out of trouble?

You really need to know if something happens. If it happens, and you know about it, you can always manage it. The big risk is if you don't know what is happening.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

If I were in your shoes, Id handle it in a humorous way. Something like ..."listen girls just take it fairly handy tonight, we dont want any madness which might make things awkward with the client...." followed by a smile and a wink.... the penny should drop with them then

madmik

Frank Tank wrote: »

I own a small company - staff of 5
We work in a business were any mistake can cause us to lose a client.
And it is near impossible to get a client back.

Two of my staff - the only women - are planning to met up with the staff of our largest client. These girls like their drink and one is newly single.

Within the business, this is frowned upon by management of these large companies. It is outside hours and outside the office.

And things are very delicate at the moment with this client and our competitors are fighting tooth and nail for what limited work there is.

I want to tell them not to go, but I know the girls will take offense.

Can anyone give me advice or tell me what they did in a similar situation?

Help....they are going in two weeks time.

this is a horrific situation to be in

since it isnt a business meeting theres little (anything?) you can do to enforce how it goes down

you cant send other staff (male/non drinkers?) to take their places since its a social gathering and nothing to do with work

if theyve made personal arrangements (like a date or whatever) with the guys from the other company i dont see how you could cancel the party without it looking weird to your own staff or the other guys theyre going to meet

whats the worst that could happen ?

they could get drunk ,get shagged/start a relationship etc ,bad mouth the company or even their boss (your good self ) expose company secrets/practices or other vital info ,make a complete embarasment of themselves that would have people gossiping for weeks about those two drunken slappers from company xxx?

deepriver

edanto wrote: »

I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to have an informal sit-down with them and explain how the management of your client would view this, explain the risks to them and at that stage they'll probably see how their jobs depend on them being professional, even in a social setting.

You're looking out for their jobs and their future, just you have a perspective that they don't have and I'd hope they understand that.

I would agree with that... talking a confrontational approach would have adverse affects, espicially since the two employees in question have a good relationship with the front line staff of the client company

it is quite acceptable in normal circumstances to socialise with work colleagues or clients so you need to be careful of what kind of approach you take, these staff have every right to do what they are doing, but should be aware of the potential consequences and your interests as the company director / md etc

if the girls dont know that in your industry this behaviour is not typically acceptable someone at somestage needs to inform them of this or they effectively dont have a long-term career in the industry

Dabko

Deleted User wrote: »

If I were in your shoes, Id handle it in a humorous way. Something like ..."listen girls just take it fairly handy tonight, we dont want any madness which might make things awkward with the client...." followed by a smile and a wink.... the penny should drop with them then

Thats the best way to do it. Playful and friendly but deadly f**king serious too.

OP, its your business, you protect it how you see fit. At the end of the day, if these ladies make things difficult in future dealilngs with a client, no skin of their noses.

You have absolutely no right to dictate what staff can do out of hours the total cheek of you

There are those of us who must lead and those of us must follow.;)

random.stranger

D-Boy wrote: »

You have absolutely no right to dictate what staff can do out of hours the total cheek of you

I think your putting Frank Tank in an unfair light. He didn't come across as a bull in a china shop to me. If this thing did go horribly wrong and his company did loose an important client- you have to ask yourself: would this lead to redundancies in the company?

I don't think anybody needs to be heavy handed in the current climate. Many of us that have jobs don't feel too secure about them.

Thoie

Most large companies have sections in the employee handbooks (or whatever) covering "Ethics".

Generally they'll list a number of scenarios like :

You spot a competitor leaving a file at a meeting - do you
a) steal it
b) have a quick read then return it
c) return it immediately

Your government contact implies he'd like a brown envelope - do you
a) Report it to your boss
b) Give it and list it in expenses
c) Punch him in the face

Hot guy #1 from your client company invites you to a work social - do you
a) Accept, get hammered and blow him in the hallway
b) Accept, drink moderately, and keep in mind that you're representing your company
c) Tell him company secrets while playing footsie during dinner and unbuttoning your blouse.


Maybe you could update/create an employee handbook?

Dabko

Dabko wrote: »

Thats the best way to do it. Playful and friendly but deadly f**king serious too.

OP, its your business, you protect it how you see fit. At the end of the day, if these ladies make things difficult in future dealilngs with a client, no skin of their noses.



There are those of us who must lead and those of us must follow.;)

I disagree, if you're going to do it, don't do it playfully - just do it and be serious about it. Some people don't get the "playful" thing and may be inclined to think "Aw he's such a joker" which is not the impression you want to give. If it's a big deal and you know you are legally allowed to say it to them or can swing it in such a way that it can affect their jobs in the long run, then be deadly serious about it.

And Dabko, I don't think that "there are those of us who must lead and those of us who must follow" is an appropriate comment to make in this instance.

DubTony

D-Boy wrote: »

You have absolutely no right to dictate what staff can do out of hours the total cheek of you

HA! You haven't seen my employee contracts. :D:D

Seriously, I'd handle it something like this.

"Girls, I know you're seeing the guys from ABC Company for a night out, and while I don't have a problem with that, there are a couple of things that I feel need to be said. Firstly what you do in your own time is your business. But ABC Company is one of our biggest clients. And while I'm sure these guys just want a bit of craic and a night out, you have to understand that discussing company business with people outside the company is not on. I also want you to be aware that in big companies like ABC company, the staff are encouraged not to fraternise with supplier and client companies employees. So there's a strong possibility that the lads are sort of breaking the rules over there. Just keep in mind when you're out, that work talk is off the table. If anything comes up about the work we do not just for them, but for any client, do not discuss it. Tell them you're off work now and that you prefer to leave it in the office.

The way things are at the moment, if we lose any contract around here or even if one of our clients reduces what we do for them, it will have a detrimental effect on the business. Understand that as far as they're concerned you're employees of this company. So I'd appreciate it if you keep that in mind on the night. You've no idea what might be said in their office the following day. Have a good time, enjoy yourselves but don't discuss the work or anything to do with your job. And you can tell them I said that if you want."

lanternman

You have to talk to these girls!

Tell them your concerns about the client but tell them to enjoy the night and that it is possibly a brilliant opportunity to build a relationship with a cleint that you obvioulsy badly need.

Remind them that they are representing the company (anyone who has posted anything about this being outside office hours is talking rubbish) and therefore have to represent the company in a professional manner. eg if the client says something negative about you as a boss the girls have to defend you etc.

But this does not mean that the girls cannot enjoy themselves it just means that they should say the right things when talking about the company. However, if they end up in a friendly conversation about something weird and wonderful and they have something to say they should say it. If the hosts end up dancing on tables your girls should join in otherwise they are going to make the hosts feel unformfortable etc. etc.

My experience is that if you can get along with the people you work with that it goes a long way to building the business relationship.

flash harry

DubTony wrote: »

Seriously, I'd handle it something like this.

"Girls, I know you're seeing the guys from ABC Company for a night out, and while I don't have a problem with that, there are a couple of things that I feel need to be said. Firstly what you do in your own time is your business. But ABC Company is one of our biggest clients. And while I'm sure these guys just want a bit of craic and a night out, you have to understand that discussing company business with people outside the company is not on. I also want you to be aware that in big companies like ABC company, the staff are encouraged not to fraternise with supplier and client companies employees. So there's a strong possibility that the lads are sort of breaking the rules over there. Just keep in mind when you're out, that work talk is off the table. If anything comes up about the work we do not just for them, but for any client, do not discuss it. Tell them you're off work now and that you prefer to leave it in the office.

The way things are at the moment, if we lose any contract around here or even if one of our clients reduces what we do for them, it will have a detrimental effect on the business. Understand that as far as they're concerned you're employees of this company. So I'd appreciate it if you keep that in mind on the night. You've no idea what might be said in their office the following day. Have a good time, enjoy yourselves but don't discuss the work or anything to do with your job. And you can tell them I said that if you want."

Great advice, maybe be a bit more clear on the staff numbers implications of a loss of biz though...

One thing no one seems to have mentioned however is that this could work out brilliantly for yu if they get on great etc etc

random.stranger

flash harry wrote: »

Great advice, maybe be a bit more clear on the staff numbers implications of a loss of biz though...

One thing no one seems to have mentioned however is that this could work out brilliantly for yu if they get on great etc etc

I thought the problem was that they could get on great and things could go pear shaped in a couple of weeks/months time?

antoinolachtnai

To be fair there is a distinction between 'getting on great' in a business-like, dealmaking sort of way, and 'getting on great' in a social, chummy, maybe even romantic sort of way.

This is the heart of the OP's problem.

homeOwner

Having been on a course last week which covered bullying, harrassment, dignity in work etc..... it was drilled into us that work gatherings outside of the office, even when not organised by the company still come under the realm of responsibility (legally) of the company. That covers work collegues going for a drink after work off their own bat.

So applied to this case, even if the girls are not formally invited to an official company night out, since they are meeting with your clients, they officially still are representing the company. From the other view point, should something happen to one of them while out for the night, eg one of them is sexually harrassed by a male in the other company, you as their employer have a legal obligation to take action on the situation since legally they are representing your company on this night out.

You are well within your rights to remind them that as representivies of your company they are subject to normal HR rules and regulations and that includes not getting smashed in front of clients, not disclosing private company business etc.....

homeOwner

homeOwner wrote: »

Having been on a course last week which covered bullying, harrassment, dignity in work etc..... it was drilled into us that work gatherings outside of the office, even when not organised by the company still come under the realm of responsibility (legally) of the company. That covers work collegues going for a drink after work off their own bat.

So applied to this case, even if the girls are not formally invited to an official company night out, since they are meeting with your clients, they officially still are representing the company. From the other view point, should something happen to one of them while out for the night, eg one of them is sexually harrassed by a male in the other company, you as their employer have a legal obligation to take action on the situation since legally they are representing your company on this night out.

You are well within your rights to remind them that as representivies of your company they are subject to normal HR rules and regulations and that includes not getting smashed in front of clients, not disclosing private company business etc.....

Bingo, that's the juicy info I was after! So the OP can explain this to them.

PS: Dubtony, great advice.