Lions Team

Frank_Gallagher

15. Lee Byrne (Ospreys/Wales)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys/Ireland)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins/England)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets/Wales)
9. Mike Phillips (Ospreys/Wales)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7. David Wallace (Munster/Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
5. Paul O'Connell (Munster/Ireland) Captain
4. Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
3. Phil Vickery (London Wasps/England)
2. Lee Mears (Bath/England)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
Replacements
16. Matthew Rees (Scarlets/Wales)
17. Adam Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
18. Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster/Ireland)
19. Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
20. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
21. Ronan O'Gara (Munster/Ireland)
22. Rob Kearney (Leinster/Ireland)

Presume Bowe is covering centre spots...still not mad on O'Connell + Alwyn together...

bamboozle

just dont like that back-row, think we need Williams at 7 for us to have any chance.
Saturday will show if Croft is good or just another Sky Sports Poster Boy, right now i think he's far too light weight to be playing at 6.

redmca

A bit tough on Fitzgerald vs Monye, but at least S Williams isn't there.
Would prefer M Williams to play with Wallace at 6. We have to beat the Boks to the breakdown even if it means a lighter back row.

Great to see Kearney on the bench, don't really think he deserves it.

spear thrower

is this official???

Fitz didnt even make the bench?...

Onearmedbandit

Fitzgerald didn't get a bench spot even, thats a bit disappointing.

Good squad though, Williams will come on for impact I reckon. Hopefully Croft has a good game

d'Oracle

Looks like they plan on charging headlong into the boks all game.

Playing to SA's strengths instead of the Lions strengths.

ALH-06

bamboozle wrote: »

just dont like that back-row, think we need Williams at 7 for us to have any chance.
Saturday will show if Croft is good or just another Sky Sports Poster Boy, right now i think he's far too light weight to be playing at 6.

We'll see how Croft plays on Saturday, but Ferris is a massive loss. It's disappointing that Croft hasn't done anything to prove his test credentials yet on tour, but is still a shoe-in to start. If only Wally could play 6!

I do think that Wally over Williams is the right choice against the Springboks though. Williams is an intelligent and sublime link player, but we need Wally's physicality, ball-carrying and work at the breakdown in this match.

Brewster

Yeah, Ferris will be missed at breakdown for his physicality. He injury was a massive blow, no doubt about it.

I still think its the correct team to he fair, Wallace at 6 and Williams at 7 was an option, and maybe in the 2nd half its a change id expect to happen when game losens up. Dont be to hard on Croft, hes a super player. Wasnt even in squad now in Test team, strange eh, its happened before though. Hes a great lineout option and they are all needed when up against Matfield and Bokka and Smith...

ALH-06

redmca wrote: »

Would prefer M Williams to play with Wallace at 6. We have to beat the Boks to the breakdown even if it means a lighter back row.

Can Wally play 6 at all?

Amabokke

Did not expect Wallace to start, wouldve thought they'd go for a specialist fetcher in Williams against Brussouw at the breakdown. Wallace really struggled in this area and is not an out an out fetcher. Croft and Heaslip ball carriers but with no fetcher they not going to carry alot!

Lions management might've missed the point about the breakdown against ordinary provincial teams.

Frank_Gallagher

bamboozle wrote: »

just dont like that back-row, think we need Williams at 7 for us to have any chance.
Saturday will show if Croft is good or just another Sky Sports Poster Boy, right now i think he's far too light weight to be playing at 6.

Yeah agreed. McGeechan obviously thinks the same, that could be seen from the off with the selection of Ferris and Quinlan...not to mention Worsley.

Could be accused of a bit of Irish bias here, but once Ferris went I think they could have done a lot worse than call up Leamy...like calling up someone who was with the squad for long enough to get his gear then had to go home for example.

Frank_Gallagher

Harry Ellis...obv being good enough for the tigers bench is the same as being good enough for the lions bench

Amabokke

There will be great competition between the centres in mid-field, scrumhalves and the second row in the line-outs. Lions might just edge the scrums and boks will win the breakdown.

madds

Amabokke wrote: »

There will be great competition between the centres in mid-field, scrumhalves and the second row in the line-outs. Lions might just edge the scrums and boks will win the breakdown.

You're not as dismissive of the Lions chances as you were a few weeks back. Do I sense a little anxiety here?

remus808

Frank_Gallagher wrote: »

Harry Ellis...obv being good enough for the tigers bench is the same as being good enough for the lions bench

Have raised this point many a time: Someone like Peel should be there.

chupacabra

Croft doesent deserve to be on this tour to be honest. Ferris is looking like the biggest loss the lions team could face all tour.

Also Euan Murray out of the tour with his ankle injury. Hayes to be called up?

thomond2006

karmabass wrote: »

Have raised this point many a time: Someone like Peel should be there.

No, Peter "Stinger" Stringer.

I feel so gutted for Ferris, to have Croft there in the back row is a worry.

ch2008

Not 1 scot, not even on the bench. Sad times

GymJim

Frank_Gallagher wrote: »

Harry Ellis...obv being good enough for the tigers bench is the same as being good enough for the lions bench

What's the alternative? Blair is first choice for Scotland and has been a damn good player for the last few years but is shockingly off form...just couldn't put him in there after his SK showing.

Peel was not fit at time so once TOL got injured made sense to call up Blair. At original selection stage it was probably toss-up between Care and Ellis. To be fair Ellis is a very good sniper and passer and I wouldn't scoff at him struggling to get into the Leicester team...Dupuy was awesome when he came in and proved his class against AB's last weekend.

At this stage Geech can only go on form from what he actually has there. On that basis then Ellis certainly deserves place.

Riskymove

Frank_Gallagher wrote: »

Harry Ellis...obv being good enough for the tigers bench is the same as being good enough for the lions bench

well remember they lost O'Leary, Blair not in form

Peel or stringer should have been brought along

dan719

Amabokke wrote: »

Did not expect Wallace to start, wouldve thought they'd go for a specialist fetcher in Williams against Brussouw at the breakdown. Wallace really struggled in this area and is not an out an out fetcher. Croft and Heaslip ball carriers but with no fetcher they not going to carry alot!

Lions management might've missed the point about the breakdown against ordinary provincial teams.

I doubt Brussouw will be as effective if he is pinged for any of the following (all of which he got away with in the last game); lying on the wrong side, rolling the ball back while on the ground, not coming through the gate and so on.:rolleyes:

thomond2006

ch2008 wrote: »

Not 1 scot, not even on the bench. Sad times

Why?

They're just unlucky that Blair's been beyond sh1te, DOC played well on Tuesday to edge out Hines and Murray got injured.

NabyLadistheman

Can't believe Fitz never even made the bench. Jesus Christ he was pushin Moyne for a starting position. Shane Williams has been brutal

ch2008

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why?

They're just unlucky that Blair's been beyond sh1te, DOC played well on Tuesday to edge out Hines and Murray got injured.

Its sad that a country with such a proud rugby history cant provide a single player worthy of a Lions spot. Their game is in shocking decline, it makes the Lions weaker, the 6 Nations weker and ultinately rugby is a ta loss. Thats why its sad

remus808

Care would have been a much better bet than Ellis alright, definitely the best english SH

thomond2006

ch2008 wrote: »

Its sad that a country with such a proud rugby history cant provide a single player worthy of a Lions spot. Their game is in shocking decline, it makes the Lions weaker, the 6 Nations weker and ultinately rugby is a ta loss. Thats why its sad

Yeah, you're probably right.

On another matter, isn't it a big shame the best Irish scrum half in the professional era Peter Stringer never went on a Lions Tour?

Stev_o

karmabass wrote: »

Care would have been a much better bet than Ellis alright, definitely the best english SH

Hodgeson would of trumped all including Philips, has a better pass and defensive game then all of them.

GymJim

torresistheman wrote: »

Can't believe Fitz never even made the bench. Jesus Christ he was pushin Moyne for a starting position. Shane Williams has been brutal

Ya and Williams isn't there...can't see the point in going on about him any more. Off form...not picked!

Kearney picked on bench due to huge boot and dependability under high ball. Fitz kicking from hand against SK's was shocking and that's what decided it. Also I think he's been unlucky that he hasn't seen enough ball to impress...mainly due to him being involved in what turned out to be toughest games. If he had played games Monye did then I have no doubt he would have finished same chances and been in team. Unfortunate in that respect but up to him to really stand out v emerging boks as I fear Monye could be targeted on Saturday due to his poor kicking game and incosistency under high ball.

Erin Go Brath

Thats an excellent lions team. No major surprises. Wallace deserves his chance at 7. I would have liked to see O'Gara in but Jones deserved it. If he misses kicks at goal, we will see O'Gara coming in.

Finally a game to look forward to. This tour has been a damp squib so far.

thomond2006

Frank_Gallagher wrote: »

15. Lee Byrne (Ospreys/Wales)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys/Ireland)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins/England)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets/Wales)
9. Mike Phillips (Ospreys/Wales)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7. David Wallace (Munster/Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
5. Paul O'Connell (Munster/Ireland) Captain
4. Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
3. Phil Vickery (London Wasps/England)
2. Lee Mears (Bath/England)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
Replacements
16. Matthew Rees (Scarlets/Wales)
17. Adam Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
18. Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster/Ireland)
19. Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
20. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
21. Ronan O'Gara (Munster/Ireland)
22. Rob Kearney (Leinster/Ireland)

8 Irish, 9 Welsh, 5 English

All I can say is: Well done Irish Rugby.

GymJim

karmabass wrote: »

Care would have been a much better bet than Ellis alright, definitely the best english SH

No he would not. Ellis is far better than Care.

Care's passing is highly inconsistent and to me he's somewhat alike Powell in that he runs away from cover. Yes it's good to be unpredictable to a point but when your own team can't support you as a result and you concede silly penalties then it's not much worth. And he's a bit headless at times when put under pressure meaning the SA backrow would devour him.

Ellis is a better passer and only runs when it's on. Also experience in real pressure situations like this counts for an awful lot. When has Care ever done it at a level above GP?

TarfHead

torresistheman wrote: »

Can't believe Fitz never even made the bench.

Well, if you had watched the match on Tuesday without your Ireland scarf on, the reasons for his omission from the match day 22 are evident.

ch2008

I think Fitz hasnt shown anything to give him the edge over Monye but probably due to the teams he was playing in. Monye will be targeted on saturday though. Kearney is an awful tackler, especially on the wing

Hippo

thomond2006 wrote: »

8 Irish, 9 Welsh, 5 English

All I can say is: Well done Irish Rugby.

And that's without Quinlan, Flannery, O'Leary and Ferris....

Stev_o

ch2008 wrote: »

I think Fitz hasnt shown anything to give him the edge over Monye but probably due to the teams he was playing in. Monye will be targeted on saturday though. Kearney is an awful tackler, especially on the wing

Both have played 3 games so i hardly think it's unfair, Monye scored 4 in 3 while Fitz scored 1 in 3. Fitz has had his chance so far and hasn't taken it.

GymJim

ch2008 wrote: »

I think Fitz hasnt shown anything to give him the edge over Monye but probably due to the teams he was playing in. Monye will be targeted on saturday though. Kearney is an awful tackler, especially on the wing

Are you serious? Yes he has missed a few tackles in his early career but over the last year or 2 he has improved out of all recognition in this respect. It would appear he has put in a lot of work on it.

Ccompared to most other FB/wings he's very solid. I suppose Geordan Murphy is a good tackler so?!

Kearney's tackling so far this tour has been exceptional. He has not missed a single tackle and has in fact made some outstanding tackles especially in last Saturday's game.

I'm not saying he was always a great tackler but he has clearly worked hard in this area of his game and I just don't see what basis you have for such a statement in the last 2 years...as this is the period which has gotten him selected for this tour.

ch2008

Stev_o wrote: »

Both have played 3 games so i hardly think it's unfair, Monye scored 4 in 3 while Fitz scored 1 in 3. Fitz has had his chance so far and hasn't taken it.

Eh, I didnt say it was unfair. Monye deserves his place

Stev_o

ch2008 wrote: »

Eh, I didnt say it was unfair. Monye deserves his place

Whoops miss read that

buck65

Fitz has been ok , nothing more on this tour. Monye is more dangerous.
Delighted to see DOC on the bench , Hines is poor , Shaw is probably past it.
Overall the best Lions team available. Williams v Wallace wil continue all tour as will ROG v Jones. Could still see another prop and no. 6 coming out.

hardCopy

Stev_o wrote: »

Both have played 3 games so i hardly think it's unfair, Monye scored 4 in 3 while Fitz scored 1 in 3. Fitz has had his chance so far and hasn't taken it.

As much as it pains me to say it, Fitz didn't play well enough to get a test spot, I lost count of the number of times he overran passes in the last game.

He almost overran O'Driscoll for his try last week as well.

GymJim

buck65 wrote: »

Fitz has been ok , nothing more on this tour. Monye is more dangerous.
Delighted to see DOC on the bench , Hines is poor , Shaw is probably past it.
Overall the best Lions team available. Williams v Wallace wil continue all tour as will ROG v Jones. Could still see another prop and no. 6 coming out.

Not sure about another 6 but Geech said in press conference they would look to get another prop out alright. Could be either tight or loosehead as enough on tour already to play both

Options are really:

Horan
Bull
Duncan Jones
Payne (doubtful but he is a Wasp)

And realistically that's it. Surely one of the Irish lads?!

As for a 6 would suspect it'd be one of the Scottish lads.

ch2008

GymJim wrote: »

Are you serious? Yes he has missed a few tackles in his early career but over the last year or 2 he has improved out of all recognition in this respect. It would appear he has put in a lot of work on it.

Ccompared to most other FB/wings he's very solid. I suppose Geordan Murphy is a good tackler so?!

Kearney's tackling so far this tour has been exceptional. He has not missed a single tackle and has in fact made some outstanding tackles especially in last Saturday's game.

I'm not saying he was always a great tackler but he has clearly worked hard in this area of his game and I just don't see what basis you have for such a statement in the last 2 years...as this is the period which has gotten him selected for this tour.

Dont really know what your getting at with regard to GM, I never mentioned him

Kearney often gets causght on the outside when playing on the wing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfSkgzjCZ78

Also has a tendancy chicken out of tackling catchers of his up-and-unders.

Erin Go Brath

Monyes finishing gave him the edge over Fitzgerald for the spot. If he doesn't do well on Saturday though Fitz should start the 2nd test.

buck65

hardCopy wrote: »

As much as it pains me to say it, Fitz didn't play well enough to get a test spot, I lost count of the number of times he overran passes in the last game.

He almost overran O'Driscoll for his try last week as well.

not his fault that the old man is slowing down!

davyjose

Stev_o wrote: »

Both have played 3 games so i hardly think it's unfair, Monye scored 4 in 3 while Fitz scored 1 in 3. Fitz has had his chance so far and hasn't taken it.

I'm not 100% convinced they were comparable performances. The major difference between the two players was Monye's performance against the Golden Lions. Now, aside from Hines and Kearney (no slouches) that was the test team. Lets be honest Fitz got scraps - that's the Irish fan in me speaking.

The Lions fan in me thinks that not having a fully performing Fitz (or Williams) is a shame, because I think that they can play at a level that is beyond Monye, when they hit their stride. Ok, Williams is not himself this year, but Fitz is. I genuinely believe you put Fitz on that test team, he would show his ability. But, I guess we'll have to wait and see (hopefully) on the second Test. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased with that team, but I think it could be ever so slightly stronger.

ch2008

Fitz hasnt done anything wrong but Monye is scoring tries so he gets the nod

Ciaran-Irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

8 Irish, 9 Welsh, 5 English

All I can say is: Well done Irish Rugby.

Yep, agreed. Grand Slam, Best two club sides in Europe. 5 starting Lions, including Captain and Vice captain.

If Fla & Ferris were fit, they would be in the starting 15, and Tomás would have Ellis' spot on the bench.

Great year for Irish Rugby. Done us proud.

ALH-06

davyjose wrote: »

I'm not 100% convinced they were comparable performances. The major difference between the two players was Monye's performance against the Golden Lions. Now, aside from Hines and Kearney (no slouches) that was the test team. Lets be honest Fitz got scraps - that's the Irish fan in me speaking.

The Lions fan in me thinks that not having a fully performing Fitz (or Williams) is a shame, because I think that they can play at a level that is beyond Monye, when they hit their stride. Ok, Williams is not himself this year, but Fitz is. I genuinely believe you put Fitz on that test team, he would show his ability. But, I guess we'll have to wait and see (hopefully) on the second Test. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased with that team, but I think it could be ever so slightly stronger.

I'd agree mate, Monye has definitely been given more opportunities to impress on this tour. Apart from his individual effort against a piss poor Golden Lions defence, he has not done anything outstanding - just finished off straight-forward tries.

Fitz is the better all-round footballer by a country mile. He comes off his wing a lot more and has a much higher workrate - His apetite in attack (running lines all over the pitch) and defence (hitting rucks etc) are both a lot higher than Monye, and he's a far more creative player. Great hands and a fantastic step.

Fitz would have been rampant against the Golden Lions - would be on the test team if he had played that match.

ALH-06

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Yep, agreed. Grand Slam, Best two club sides in Europe. 5 starting Lions, including Captain and Vice captain.

If Fla & Ferris were fit, they would be in the starting 15, and Tomás would have Ellis' spot on the bench.

Great year for Irish Rugby. Done us proud.

Wow, what a year.

Such a pity about those injuries. Especially to Fla and Ferris. They would make this Lions team so much stronger.

Amabokke

madds wrote: »

You're not as dismissive of the Lions chances as you were a few weeks back. Do I sense a little anxiety here?

Absolutely, shaking in my boots. You should feel flattered that I'm rating the Lions at all.

Amabokke

dan719 wrote: »

I doubt Brussouw will be as effective if he is pinged for any of the following (all of which he got away with in the last game); lying on the wrong side, rolling the ball back while on the ground, not coming through the gate and so on.:rolleyes:

And how exactly will he not get away with it this time since it is a SH ref that takes charge of the game and allow the breakdown to be a free for all?

Brussouw was a monster against the Lions because the NH does not play towards the breakdown and it is something that they needed to work on and improve but we've seen little improvement. (Lions coaches, media and players have acknowledged that). We all know that they usually only have 1 guy at the breakdown as the defence is more important for them.