Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

Hagar

Racist sectarian mobs attacking and driving Romanians from their homes in Lisburn Road area of South Belfast. Loyalist paramilitary groups suspected as being involved. Given the area it happened in it couldn't really have been anyone else.

Have the Loyalists finally stepped over the line dividing sectarianism and Nazism?

Link to story on BBC News

Link to story on Sky News

Link to story on RTE News

gurramok

Its headlines on BBC news UK this morning. (contrast that to McDaid murder)

Plus Loyalists have not disarmed, no wonder those poor people are frightened out of their wits not just from stone throwers but from anything more sinister down the line from the gunman.

getz

i dont understand how you came up with the ,loyalist paramilitary groups being involved,[it it whishfull thinking on your part] the only news i can find is that its local racist youths that are causing problems ,

Hagar

Did you even read the links?

The BBC have reported that Loyalist Paramiliatary groups are suspected of being involved although this is denied. It doesn't say if they have condemned the attacks but I'm sure they will in the fullness of time.

Is it OK if it is only gangs of marauding nazi youths are doing this as opposed to organized gangs of marauding nazi youths?

Ronan|Raven

Sometimes I would love to see the North drift off into the North Sea.

Mena

It's a sad indictment that people such as this still exist.

getz

Hagar wrote: »

The BBC have reported that Loyalist Paramiliatary groups are suspected of being involved although this is denied. It doesn't say if they have condemned the attacks but I'm sure they will in the fullness of time.

Is it OK if it is only gangs of marauding nazi youths are doing this as opposed to organized gangs of marauding nazi youths?

i have been watching the bbc news since 6am this morning as i have been on the web ,and i havent heard any mention of loyalist paramilitary groups,racism of any kind isent nice ,the local MP for south belfast is alasdair mcdonnell from the social democratic and labour party, its not dup area, even local people was attacked last night ,and all say its just local youths,being racist idiots .so lets keep to facts

It is a fact that Irish Catholics are not racist. Or rarely. Well the odd beating. And that time the State put Roma families living on a roundabout in Dublin. But anyway the point is we are better people than Loyalists. Or they are more organised. I don't know. What was the point?

gurramok

getz wrote: »

i have been watching the bbc news since 6am this morning as i have been on the web ,and i havent heard any mention of loyalist paramilitary groups,racism of any kind isent nice ,the local MP for south belfast is alasdair mcdonnell from the social democratic and labour party, its not dup area, even local people was attacked last night ,and all say its just local youths,being racist idiots .so lets keep to facts

The Village area of South Belfast is a hotbed of Loyalism. Anyone who has followed northern affairs should know that.

Loyalists are extreme ring-wingers just like the BNP etc, you're surprised?

billy the squid

Deleted User wrote: »

It is a fact that Irish Catholics are not racist. Or rarely. Well the odd beating. And that time the State put Roma families living on a roundabout in Dublin. But anyway the point is we are better people than Loyalists. Or they are more organised. I don't know. What was the point?

You would be hard pressed to find a nationalist/republican/catholic up north handing out C18 filth.

Hagar

getz wrote: »

.so lets keep to facts

I kept strictly to the facts. I quoted the BBC. As I said before did you even read the links?


Regarding Billy's post above, this is a Loyalist issue and has nothing to do with anyone else.
Can we continue the discussion in that vein?

getz

please lets keep to the facts-moderators should know better, the first post has already started pointing fingers

Hagar

Hagar wrote: »

Regarding Billy's post above, this is a Loyalist issue and has nothing to do with anyone else.

What about the Romanians?

super_furry

South Belfast is a Loyalist area. The BBC report that Loyalist Paramilitaries are believed to be involved. Loyalist Paramilitary groups have long standing and well know links to British ultra-right wing groups.

I fail to see how it could be argued that it's not a loyalist problem.

Hagar

At whom? Are there gangs operating independently of the Loyalist Paramilitaries in that area? I don't think so. I would say if the LP leadership didn't want this to happen the it just wouldn't happen, nobody would cross them. Tacit support at least.

Deleted User wrote:

What about the Romanians?

Well spotted.:D

As victims they could just as easily been Polish, Lithuanian etc.
Anybody in fact except an Ulster Loyalist Protestant.

wes

For crying out loud. It is really really sad that this is happening in this day and age. Any chance we will see the people behind this, actually go to jail? Probably not, seeing as who the bbc suggest may be involved.

gurramok

They did the same to the Polish community since the NI-Poland soccer match a few months ago when so called NI football fans went on the rampage attacking families at random.

O'Morris

Shameful behaviour altogether. And to think that this is being carried out by people who are themselves the descendants of immigrants. The ancestors of the orangemen came to this country in greater numbers and caused far more disruption than the poor Romanians are causing by being here today.

getz

psni chief inspector robert murdie said quote,there is no evidence to suggest a series of attacks on romanian families in south belfast was orchestrated. i am still looking for this royalist conection

Hagar

getz wrote: »

psni chief inspector robert murdie said quote,there is no evidence to suggest a series of attacks on romanian families in south belfast was orchestrated. i am still looking for this royalist conection

I don't know that hard evidence for many crimes would be put in the public domain so quickly so my lack of hard evidence this morning is not an indication that such evidence does not exist or will not be uncovered.

As for a royalist connection, I don't think anybody believes HRH was involved.

Ulster Loyalist Protestant

Apologies for the unintended slight on the Protestant people. Obviously it was decent protestants who gave the victims sanctuary in their church. I applaud them for this action. The actions of loyalists unfortunately often reflect incorrectly on the protestant population as a whole.

getz

Hagar wrote: »

I don't know that hard evidence for many crimes would be put in the public domain so quickly so my lack of hard evidence this morning is not an indication that such evidence does not exist or will not be uncovered.

As for a royalist connection, I don't think anybody believes HRH was involved.



Apologies for the unintended slight on the Protestant people. Obviously it was decent protestants who gave the victims sanctuary in their church. I applaud the for this action. The actions of loyalists unfortunately often reflect incorrectly on the protestant population as a whole.

i dont think religion came into it,remember a earlier a local march by protestants/catholic residents was also attacked with bottles,

Can'tseeme

As been said, there were 12 families put out of their homes after the NI vs Poland match. I don't think any were actually Polish. Whether these gangs are organised by Loyalist paramilitaries or not is relevant. It's been a constant campaign that has been going on for ages. Would this be tolerated anywhere else in Britian or Ireland?

The point is, these loyalist areas have a serious sectarian/racism problem that isn't being addressed. Foreign nationals or people with a different faith, other than protestant are simply not welcome in these areas and they'll do whatever it takes to get them out. The voices of Unionism is deafening as usual regarding this.

What is ironic is that these morons have been posting letters quoting Mein Kampf but would put up Israeli flags in their areas to counter attack nationalist support for Palestine.

getz

Can'tseeme wrote: »

As been said, there were 12 families put out of their homes after the NI vs Poland match. I don't think any were actually Polish. Whether these gangs are organised by Loyalist paramilitaries or not is relevant. It's been a constant campaign that has been going on for ages. Would this be tolerated anywhere else in Britian or Ireland?

The point is, these loyalist areas have a serious sectarian/racism problem that isn't being addressed. Foreign nationals or people with a different faith, other than protestant are simply not welcome in these areas and they'll do whatever it takes to get them out. The voices of Unionism is deafening as usual regarding this.

What is ironic is that these morons have been posting letters quoting Mein Kampf but would put up Israeli flags in their areas to counter attack nationalist support for Palestine.

no racism in the catholic areas or northern ireland ?

Hagar

No point trying to divert the thread off on a tangent is there?

getz

now this kind of thing is in all the national papers,these scum whoever they are will be found and prosecuted, the cops are asking people if they recognize any of their faces

bernardo mac

Found it impossible to DISCUSS politics with many republicans and loyalists.They are always "RIGHT". Gave up long ago.Safer anyway.:rolleyes:

FTA69

getz wrote: »

no racism in the catholic areas or northern ireland ?

Of course there is, the big difference though is that Nationalists don't instigate violent pogroms against non-nationals. Again we have people desperately trying to peddle the "sure they're all as bad as each other/tit-for-tat" line when the reality is that Loyalism and the culture surrounding it is prone to exclusionary and racist sentiment.

MarchDub

gurramok wrote: »

Its headlines on BBC news UK this morning. (contrast that to McDaid murder)

Plus Loyalists have not disarmed, no wonder those poor people are frightened out of their wits not just from stone throwers but from anything more sinister down the line from the gunman.

I'm in the US at the moment and BBC America led with it on the early morning news hour. "Racism in NI" was the lead in. No hint whatsoever as to who the perpetrators are just saying that racism in NI had driven the victims from their homes. The impression given is that this is a pandemic Northern Irish issue.

getcover

getz wrote: »

no racism in the catholic areas or northern ireland ?

There certainly is racism in Catholic areas, but why must any discussion be "balanced out" by saying the other side can be just as bad? People have been hounded out of their homes by a mob, which has been reported by some News agencies as having links to organised Loyalism.

There is, and has been, a serious element of racism amongst the Loyalists in the North, which is not matched in it's extemity by the Nationalists.

The hatred, violence and pornography shown at the protest against little girls going to school for instance, has no echo in the Catholic/Muslim/Hindu etc. communities in the rest of the UK.

Can'tseeme

getz wrote: »

no racism in the catholic areas or northern ireland ?

Racism can be found anywhere on the globe and should be hunted down and stamped out whenever it rears it's ugly head. You'll find nationalist areas in the north, do alot of work to make sure people from ethnic minorities or from other religionous backgrounds are welcome into the areas and intergrated into the society. Honestly, foreign nationals are generally well recieved in nationalist areas.

Just as an example, the anti-racism world cup was launched yesterday in West Belfast at Donegal Celtic's ground for the 2nd year running organised by Féile an Phobail.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/88503

Féile an Phobail, covers alot of global issues as part of it's festival including poverty, discrimination, racism.

bernardo mac

Obviously these orchestrated attacks on foreigners or anyone who seems to be different to the tunnel visioned assailants, are not uncommon in the North.There have been assaults and murders here too.There is intolerance on both sides of the Border...but imagine merging with the Six,professional bigotry,inbred hatred ,xenophobic and dangerous turds et al included, as part of the deal!:eek:

wes

bernardo mac wrote: »

Obviously these orchestrated attacks on foreigners or anyone who seems to be different to the tunnel visioned assailants, are not uncommon in the North.There have been assaults and murders here too.There is intolerance on both sides of the Border...but imagine merging with the Six,professional bigotry,inbred hatred ,xenophobic and dangerous turds et al included, as part of the deal!:eek:

No need to paint everyone in the North with the same brush. The people who fled from there homes, were being helped by a Pastor at a near by church for instance.

getz

i have still to see any news agencies reports to say that it organised[ or have even hinted] its loyalism, most of the facts say its gangs of young idiots that are the problem,thats what the locals and police are saying, but there is still a lot of people who are unwilling to believe that not every problem is not conected to the passed troubles ,you see i think they deep down hope it is

Can'tseeme

getz wrote: »

i have still to see any news agencies reports to say that it organised[ or have even hinted] its loyalism, most of the facts say its gangs of young idiots that are the problem,thats what the locals and police are saying, but there is still a lot of people who are unwilling to believe that not every problem is not conected to the passed troubles ,you see i think they deep down hope it is

It's to do with the sectarian/racist problems in loyalist areas, end of. I live in Belfast, this is common knowledge.

getz

Can'tseeme wrote: »

It's to do with the sectarian/racist problems in loyalist areas, end of. I live in Belfast, this is common knowledge.

i hope very much you are wrong,when they get these lads we will know for sure wont we

Dozen Wicked Words

Hagar wrote: »

Did you even read the links?

The BBC have reported that Loyalist Paramiliatary groups are suspected of being involved although this is denied. It doesn't say if they have condemned the attacks but I'm sure they will in the fullness of time.

Is it OK if it is only gangs of marauding nazi youths are doing this as opposed to organized gangs of marauding nazi youths?

I have read the links you have provided.

Weak "evidence" that out of three links you offer, the proof you obviously need for this thread is a "suspicion" of Loyalist Paramilitary involvement. This has been denied. That is enough to suggest a link between Nazism and Loyalism?

A tenuous link between obviously drunken, obnoxious youths and organised paramilitarism. It is NOT OK for any gangs of marauding nazi youths to terrorise innocent people, but your thread is not concerned about that, it is being used as a stick to beat Loyalism in general.

I have no love for Loyalism or Unionism in general but this thread is a poor attempt at point scoring.

Can'tseeme

Can'tseeme wrote: »

put up Israeli flags in their areas to counter attack nationalist support for Palestine.

Proper order too. I never quite got the mutual backslapping amongst terrorist fellow travellers around the world. You hate Jews? Sure we hate Brits. We're so alike.

Anyway, anyone got any information, or indeed concern, about what will happen to the Romanian victims, or are we still just focusing on how awful Loyalists are?

bernardo mac

wes wrote: »

No need to paint everyone in the North with the same brush. The people who fled from there homes, were being helped by a Pastor at a near by church for instance.

I didn't.Obviously there are many exceptionally tolerant and humane people of numerous political hues and religious or non-religious persuasion.Indeed ,that's one reason for the progress made towards reconciliation.But there is a deep and lethal resistance to a healthy social/political society embedded in the psyche of many on the so called Orange and Green divide.

Can'tseeme

getz wrote: »

i hope very much you are wrong,when they get these lads we will know for sure wont we

Mate, these areas have very much a seige mentality. Unless your British and Protestant then your not welcome. Whether the UDA is involved or not is relevant. More needs to be done to change attitudes in these areas. The leadership must be shown from their community leaders and Unionist politicians.

In a few weeks time, these areas will host huge bonfires right across the north, burning anything Irish or Catholic. What kind of society in 2009 should have sectarian demonstrations which only fuel these mindsets and do nothing to try and breakdown the barriers between communities? Fly's in the face of any modern thinking in Europe in regards to respect and tolerance.

junder

gurramok wrote: »

The Village area of South Belfast is a hotbed of Loyalism. Anyone who has followed northern affairs should know that.

Loyalists are extreme ring-wingers just like the BNP etc, you're surprised?

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

junder

gurramok wrote: »

They did the same to the Polish community since the NI-Poland soccer match a few months ago when so called NI football fans went on the rampage attacking families at random.

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

gurramok

junder wrote:

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people

So that justifies NI fans attacking foreigners in their area?

Always thought there was a police force to tackle law breakers, not a mob.

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

Think you'll find that the attackers are from a loyalist area, the attackers do not have to be living on the Lisburn Rd.

Oh, the PSNI has declared Loyalists to have been involved in past racist attacks.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/1101/breaking60.html?via=rel

Police in Northern Ireland may name and shame paramilitary groups whose members are involved in racist attacks, it emerged today.Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde told a public meeting with the Northern Ireland Policing Board in Newcastle, Co Down, that members of some loyalist groups were involved in violence against eastern Europeans.

So as you declare yourself to be a loyalist, will you be out there protesting against this violence in your name?

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

Ah ffs junder, I've lived in Belfast all my life. You know and I know that area is a loyalist area. There is a minority of people from outside of Belfast that have moved in that may be from a catholic background. There's recent graffiti I've noticed in the area saying 'taigs out' btw. Let's face this problem correctly. Of course not all unionists are racist but there's a serious issue with sectarianism and racism in loyalist areas that isn't being dealt with.

SWL

junder wrote: »

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

The Polish community started the trouble after the football match, I was in NI for a week, before and after, the polish supporter’s were rising the Loyalist community with flags and chants, nice thank you to the people who allowed them work when the rest of Europe said no.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a bus of Roma arrive in Dublin, and then gauge people reaction. i am not happy seeing them using their "trade" on the streets of Dublin, maybe that is what has happened in NI.

Maybe someone could just pretend to care about the Romanians?

Come on, they are the victims. They are surely as relevant to the thread as the Battle of the Boyne and sectarian marches or Palestinians or religious differences or all the other issues that have been analysed so far?

Can'tseeme

SWL wrote: »

The Polish community started the trouble after the football match, I was in NI for a week, before and after, the polish supporter’s were rising the Loyalist community with flags and chants, nice thank you to the people who allowed them work when the rest of Europe said no.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a bus of Roma arrive in Dublin, and then gauge people reaction. i am not happy seeing them using their "trade" on the streets of Dublin, maybe that is what has happened in NI.

There were Polish hooligans involved before and after the game and were arrested. That doesn't mean people go around that area of south Belfast forcing 12 families from their home, none of which were Polish. One in fact was an Englishman's home.

Sweet devine.

You almost have to laugh.

Could people not open up a 'we hate Protestants/ Loyalists and will use every opportunity to demonstrate that' thread, and take about 85% of the posts off this one?

conchubhar1

all i will say

is the scum who did this will get there day - whoever they are, regardless of political affiliation etc

gurramok

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweet devine.

You almost have to laugh.

Could people not open up a 'we hate Protestants/ Loyalists and will use every opportunity to demonstrate that' thread, and take about 85% of the posts off this one?

What are you on about?

The attackers are from the loyalist Village area of Belfast and do you not think the racist attacks could not happen without loyalists turning a blind eye? (hence relevance as well as PSNI statement linking them above)

They have done the same to any nationality in that area over the last few years, it just so happens Romanians are getting the headlines now.

bernardo mac

junder wrote: »

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

Trying to figure out what an Erigi flag is. Of Sudanese origin? Whatever, it's obvious the biblical dictum of "An eye for an eye"still holds sway with some up north.Down here too, to a lethal extent:Dublin,Limerick...:( Hope that the innocent Romanian families continue to be looked after and reassured of their safety in 21st century Ireland[or is it?]

gurramok

gurramok wrote: »

What are you on about?

Wondering would people stop using the attacks to score points?

gurramok wrote: »

The attackers are from the loyalist Village area of Belfast and do you not think the racist attacks could not happen without loyalists turning a blind eye? (hence relevance as well as PSNI statement linking them above)

I see not.