How much to build now?

CmX

Say a 2,500 sq foot dormer bungalow?
I mean just build it to the stage before putting white goods/furniture etc. into it.
Any reliable info greatly appreciated.
Cheers

johndaman66

Was wondering the same myself. A few people mentioned to me of late that you would get a house built for half nothing now. Dunno how true this is. Have learned over the last few years to take whatever I hear with a giant pinch of salt! In reality would you get a house built for much less these times, bearing in mind also that builders quotations vary massively or at least used to.

Currahee01

Loads of info in the construction/planning forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=876
Location, spec, build method all key factors but I think a figure of around €100/sqft is a fair starting point.

CmX

cheers, didnt even know there was a construction forum.
much appreciated.

Victor

Moved from Accommodation & Property.

Dr. Nick

Just about to start, €280k for 2950sqf dormer. Hope to finish totally for less than €320k.

Meath.

muffler

As stated earlier location and spec will play a major factor as will method of construction - direct labour or full contract.

Prices have indeed dropped and you could get a basic builders finish for as low as €80/sq. ft. but with the renewables now having to be included Id think you would have to budget for around €100 - €120 per sq. ft. again subject to location/spec.

mr_edge_to_you

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055588248

That thread was the most recent query like yours. Seems to pop up every week!

Unless you have a fair idea of what you want in terms of windows and heating system you can't possibly use any figure you see here as a guide. The impact those two issues alone have on your build cost is phenomenal.

We're building a 2100 sq ft (storey + half) house with garage. Fully finished with AluClad (lower range of the market), Geothermal Heat Pump with UFH, Thrutone Slates €120/sq ft prior to tiling, fitted furniture etc.

That is going the fixed price contractor route.

CmX

nice one for the info everybody.
looking to build in meath myself.
Been listening to mates telling me over the last few years how they've built 5 bed bungalows for sub-100grand(site not included)
Is this an under-exhageration?
The site in meath will cost me 60,000 and I was hoping to spend less than 200k on building the house. Obviously I dont want to cut corners etc but is it possible to come in around 260k for even 2000sq feet bungalow with attic conversion or am i way off the mark?

mr_edge_to_you

We're also building in Meath. If you are going the contractor route you will be cutting it tight - no doubt about it! That will get the house built but things like tiling, kitchen, wardrobes are costs which need to budgeted for at the construction stage in my opinion. They will push it up.

Consider as well the hefty local contribution fees for Meath Co Council. Thats costing us another €6/sq ft!

They may not be exaggerating if they went to direct labour route and were able to do some of the work themselves. New building standards and energy requirements are another major burden on the cost of construction someone who built 5/6 years ago will not have had to contend with!

CmX

Interesting. you've given me some food for thought there.
See to me if you you can buy a property like this http://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/The-Blackwater-Rosehill-Mullagh-Co-Cavan-near-Kells-Co-Meath/448354/ for 235k then surely the same house must be cheaper to build?

sinnerboy

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055572757&highlight=costs

fitzie79

building a 2900 sq ft dormer + 400sq ft garage, stone entrace and driveway in the cork area. price is working out at approx 230k. includes hrv, solar panels, multifuel stove, condensor boiler, oak doors and skirting which would non-standard in a builders finish.

doesn't include the kitchen or stairs. you can spend anywhere from 5k to 25k on these depending on what you want

Repolho

fitzie79 wrote: »

building a 2900 sq ft dormer + 400sq ft garage, stone entrace and driveway in the cork area. price is working out at approx 230k. includes hrv, solar panels, multifuel stove, condensor boiler, oak doors and skirting which would non-standard in a builders finish.

doesn't include the kitchen or stairs. you can spend anywhere from 5k to 25k on these depending on what you want

Is this direct labour or through a contractor?

trevboy

Hi had first quote back from builders.

3000ft2 storey and a half with two single storey wings, wooden sash and case windows, natural slate roofs, very well insulated all complete. £60 per ft2. (approx 70 buros)

Does not include kitchen, bathrooms, aga, (wife thinks were getting one were not!!!!) decorating, carpets, or landscaping, but complete apart from that.

This builder has a very good rep and i know the standard of work which is excellent, know several people who have hired him.

Delighted as you can imagine, wonder if i will get any cheaper

:D:D:D:D

sydthebeat

trevboy wrote: »

Hi had first quote back from builders.

3000ft2 storey and a half with two single storey wings, wooden sash and case windows, natural slate roofs, very well insulated all complete. £60 per ft2. (approx 70 buros)

Does not include kitchen, bathrooms, aga, (wife thinks were getting one were not!!!!) decorating, carpets, or landscaping, but complete apart from that.

This builder has a very good rep and i know the standard of work which is excellent, know several people who have hired him.

Delighted as you can imagine, wonder if i will get any cheaper

:D:D:D:D

how are you complying to building regulations part L??
what renewables are you installing and at what quantity??
what u value MUST you meet with your windows??
what u value do you have to meet in your construction....


theres no point in the builder pricing for something if the final specification must be much greater....

trevboy

Hi syd

Nice to converse, have seen you on the boards often.


Engineer reports SAPs et al gone to building control, so hope i havent got something wrong. Have copy here!

1)Part L sorry could you explain?

2) Not sure we are required to include renewables in the north

3)I have an average Uvalue for openings at 1.89 - some reference to specific windows at 1.8

4) The software gives the following u values
Wall 0.18
Floor 0.17
Roof 0.17

All well above basic i believe

Thought i had it well speced

Please feel free to comment, or ask anything else

I am a newbie at this housebuilding lark so excuse lack of knowledge

sydthebeat

trevboy wrote: »

Hi syd

Nice to converse, have seen you on the boards often.


Engineer reports SAPs et al gone to building control, so hope i havent got something wrong. Have copy here!

1)Part L sorry could you explain?

2) Not sure we are required to include renewables in the north

3)I have an average Uvalue for openings at 1.89 - some reference to specific windows at 1.8

4) The software gives the following u values
Wall 0.18
Floor 0.17
Roof 0.17

All well above basic i believe

Thought i had it well speced

Please feel free to comment, or ask anything else

I am a newbie at this housebuilding lark so excuse lack of knowledge

trev, didnt realise you were north of teh border...

to be honest, im not up to speed on regs up there, so my above post was only applicable to the south regs...

can you tell me if its a requirement to send in your provisional SAP to your building control before commencement of work??? if so, thats a great system and one that should be reproduced here....

your spec seems ok...
personally i would look at better windows, you can get down to 1.5-1.4 u value woindows for quite resonable windows these days...

wall u value good, floor good if using rads...
roof could be a little better.. .easy to upgrade this one...

muffler

Building control in the North does what it says on the tin. All details need to be submitted for approval prior to commencing works.

During the building you can expect anything from 8 - 10 visits from the inspectors. Different system completely from here.

trevboy

Hi

Yep they really do control the build, and yes if you dont have the info in from a registered assessor, they will simply halt your application and obviously drop you to the back of the line, until you give them what they want.

They will also drop back at stages and check that the builder /owner is sticking to the agreed spec. Gives a customer (me) a check on what the builder is doing and that i,m not getting taken to the cleaners.

I think mine is a complicated build and i will keep an eye on u values espec the windows. (Thanks for that!)

I think its a good price (£60 or 70 buros/ft2) but was thinking about going the subbies route, will i save a significant amount if i do?

Or do i get myself a large headache

fitzie79

Repolho wrote: »

Is this direct labour or through a contractor?

price is from a contractor. have seen his work and spoken to other people that he was building for (not only the people he gave me details of) and no complaints from them.

wouldn't say he's the fastest around but his work quality is good

johndaman66

Was talking to a construction worker, albeit now unemployed, during the week. Was in his estate and he pointed out that in 2004/ 2005 the timber framed semi detatched houses were slapped up for little over 70k each including site, all in finished article, plumbed, kitchen, basic bathrooms, doors, architrave & skirting etc...builders finish I believe they call it....Just to be clear about it thats little over 140k for the complete two semi-detatched houses that make up the one unit. They were then selling for over 340k each...as in 680k for the complete unit. As for square feet, don't ask me cos I don't know. They were your regular 3 bed semi d with a few metre square of grass at front and out back.

Now experience has thought me to take eveything I hear with a giant dose of salt but I'm sure thats not far of the mark either. If my calculations are correct that is a gross margain of almost 80%. To me that appears to be just downright wrong

mr_edge_to_you

In relation to the prices of semi d house prices at the peak of the boom they are a few issues at play. The "poor" developer was paying astronomical prices for land, some were spending heavily on rezoning the land. County councils were then looking for crazy figures for contribution fees, our one off house in Meath is approx 12k, imagine the cost for a full housing estate? I also accept that developers were fleecing the buyer, but construction workers were among some of best paid people at the height of the boom. I bought a house in 05 for 200k, 1400 sq ft semi d. When I went to insure it the value of reconstruction was only 120k, just under 100e per sq ft. When you buy a house in an estate, you are buying a plot of land, nearer an urban area with a house on it, that's what you pay for. And the value of the house is a lot less than the value of the property as a whole.

johndaman66

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

When you buy a house in an estate, you are buying a plot of land, nearer an urban area with a house on it, that's what you pay for. And the value of the house is a lot less than the value of the property as a whole.

I take on board the point you are making mr_edge_to_you. I do realize there is a value attached to land and that one would normally expect to pay a premium for a site close to a built up area or industry but how much of a premium is fair. Not the prices that were being charged in my opinion. Remember your regular 3 bed semi-d is on a plot not much bigger than a handful of graves. What is the next best purpose the land could fulfill if not used for resedential property. Commercial Property? In my small local town there is a an absolute glut of vacant commercial premises which are unoccupied, many of which have never being occupied, and fantastic buildings they are too. The same is the case with resedential property. What other uses? Farming? Realistically is agricultural land worth much more than 5k an acre these times? Sure many farmers would find it really tough to keep afloat if it wasn't for government handouts and would farming be economically viable at all if it wasn't for government grants and susidies I wonder...I don't think so. I really don't agree with the notion we have in this country that farmers have an automatic entitlement to handounts and to be rich by virtue of the fact that they own land.

I am perhaps departing from the point there somewhat but developers, construction workers, banks, farmers, and city and county councils, all to a greater or lesser extent are responsible for the over inflated property bubble which developed down through the years.

KingPuck

trevboy wrote: »

Hi had first quote back from builders.

3000ft2 storey and a half with two single storey wings, wooden sash and case windows, natural slate roofs, very well insulated all complete. £60 per ft2. (approx 70 buros)

Does not include kitchen, bathrooms, aga, (wife thinks were getting one were not!!!!) decorating, carpets, or landscaping, but complete apart from that.

This builder has a very good rep and i know the standard of work which is excellent, know several people who have hired him.

Delighted as you can imagine, wonder if i will get any cheaper

:D:D:D:D

Starting mine shortly, similar size. Would be interested in getting the builder details from you. You might PM me. Are you getting Sash windows in that...seems very competitive

Wonky Knees

johndaman66 wrote: »

Was talking to a construction worker, albeit now unemployed, during the week. Was in his estate and he pointed out that in 2004/ 2005 the timber framed semi detatched houses were slapped up for little over 70k each including site, all in finished article, plumbed, kitchen, basic bathrooms, doors, architrave & skirting etc...builders finish I believe they call it....Just to be clear about it thats little over 140k for the complete two semi-detatched houses that make up the one unit. They were then selling for over 340k each...as in 680k for the complete unit. As for square feet, don't ask me cos I don't know. They were your regular 3 bed semi d with a few metre square of grass at front and out back.

Now experience has thought me to take eveything I hear with a giant dose of salt but I'm sure thats not far of the mark either. If my calculations are correct that is a gross margain of almost 80%. To me that appears to be just downright wrong

I've witnessed similiar cost prices with family members who are builders. But in those cases they spent a lot of time sourcing materials and building the houses themselves without factoring their own labour into the costs. Most of the profit, I believe, went into purchasing overinflated land and in some cases excessive salaries. I don't think the cost of materials changed that much over the last 5 or so years.

johndaman66

fatimamansions wrote: »

I've witnessed similiar cost prices with family members who are builders. But in those cases they spent a lot of time sourcing materials and building the houses themselves without factoring their own labour into the costs. Most of the profit, I believe, went into purchasing overinflated land and in some cases excessive salaries. I don't think the cost of materials changed that much over the last 5 or so years.

Agreed fatimamansions. We are not an overly densely populated country all the same. There are acres and acres of vacant green land around the place many of which is just simply vacant for years and years and not even used for agricultural purposes. 125k for a half acre site around my neck of the woods miles from any real industry is just a laugh I think. Of course city and county councils have their part to play in ensuring appropriate planning is essential. This practice of slippng people in planning offices a few quid in a brown enevlope (which I know a few people have done) to get planning permission, even in recent years needs to be stopped.

Regarding the excessive salaries of builders and tradesmen well hopefully thats another thing this recessionary period will rectify. Hopefully the days of cowboy builders, plumbers, carpenters etc. charging extortionate rates for work and fu*king you around in the process of getting the unsatisfactory job done into the bargain are a thing of the past.

AJE

I have a quote of 73 euro sq foot including heat recovery system, con boiler, well & pump, fittings for solar panel (wait till your house is built 12 months before you get a solar panel, you will get a grant to put it up then and save close to a grand on the cost and nearly 3 grand by not putting it on the mortgage), 150 mm of ins and dry lining, semi landscaped (no seed for lawn), floors, tiles, carpentry all in oak, kerbing, wall to the front (there is a stone wall already there and I think they plan on recycling it). The only things really not done are the driveway and all but one bathroom. We will put in the pump for the central vac later. We are also getting the house painted on the inside for the price.

The site is in county Galway and the house is 2380 sq ft. without a garage. The best thing one can do is meet the builder and sit down with him, tell him what your budget is and he will work around it. MEET SEVERAL BUILDERS AND ASK QUESTIONS, you will learn loads. Most builders need the work to keep going and to keep staff on etc. We have a very good builder we are going to go with and we are happy with his previous builds that he has shown us.

Do your research, don't go with who you think is the cheapest. You are building your home and will hopefully be there for the next 35 to 40 years min so you have plenty of time to finish things off. BUT get the basics right, a good foundation and good insulation is better than a solar panel to begin with so x the solar panel for a while and put the 4k towards the construction or insulation. Holocore flooring is not essential, not giving out about it I like the idea of it but you can get the floors upstairs cushioned to be exactly like holocore (unless you plan to do riverdance upstairs) and stick in fire proof slabs, you will save another 4k. Holocore is a good fire prevention method, it stops the upstairs getting destroyed and gives you a chance to get out, however, think about who will be upstairs and what they will be doing. When your kids are young and in bed, you could hear them get out of bed etc, with holocore you can’t hear a thing. It could be a good monitor. The only down side on this is when they become teenagers. Enough said about that.

Central vac is worth it but try to stick every pump outside if you can, it will be worth it in the long run.

The homebond self build book is good, even if you are not self building. It tells you loads of good stuff.

We met with 3 builders, an engineer and a guy who digs foundations for a living and I know now exactly what I want, do the same (in regards to meeting with people in the trade) and make sure they take you to houses they are building at the moment or to houses they have built, you will be able to see the quality. Getting someone cause you can afford them may mean you will get a cowboy and the house is badly built costing you money and giving you wrinkles in the long run.

Best of luck and ppl keep updating on the progress of builds. We can help those new comers. Now is the time to build

rubberducky1888

We're starting to build a 3,700 sq ft storey and a half in the next few weeks. We're going fixed price contract which will include everything except kitchen and tiling, it's working out at €66 per sq ft. All kingspan insulation etc from a very reputable builder. Not too shabby I'm thinking!

Cork area

Currahee01

AJE wrote: »

(wait till your house is built 12 months before you get a solar panel, you will get a grant to put it up then and save close to a grand on the cost and nearly 3 grand by not putting it on the mortgage)

You need to provide some form of renewable for new builds so unless you're providing something else I think you need to install this now to comply with Part L. In any case I suspect that the grant may be gone in 12 months time, just a hunch though.

AJE

Currahee01 wrote: »

You need to provide some form of renewable for new builds so unless you're providing something else I think you need to install this now to comply with Part L. In any case I suspect that the grant may be gone in 12 months time, just a hunch though.

It was our engineer who said to hold out on installing a solar panel and we agreed. Everybody building now complies with Part L in some form or other.

We'll have a heat recovery system which confirms to Part L and i would rather take a risk with the grant and not put in a solar panel to begin with than sticking one on the mortgage. The cost in the long run will be much more expensive even if we don't get the grant in 12 months time. We can save up for one and not put it on the mortgage and i'd suggest to people who are putting in a heat recovery system or a pilet burner to do the same.

Our builder does BER ratings also. With the heat reovery system and the insulation for that, we will have a B1 energy rated house and when we get the solar panel we will have an A3 energy rated house. If i knew how much it cost to run an air to water pump for the year compaired to a condensing oil burner i would put one in and get rid of the oil and solar panel. Our builder says its much of a muchness but i hear they are expensive to run. It would be an A2 energy rated house with an air to water pump & heat recovery.

But at the end of the day the less of a mortgage the better.

Currahee01

AJE wrote: »

We'll have a heat recovery system which confirms to Part L and i would rather take a risk with the grant and not put in a solar panel to begin with than sticking one on the mortgage.

I think you need to talk to your engineer about this. The heat recovery system will comply with the ventilation requirements of Part L but not the renewable requirements. You will find when you apply for your grant in a year when SEI see your MPRN number they will be able to tell exactly when your house was built and refuse your grant application.

AJE

Currahee01 wrote: »

I think you need to talk to your engineer about this. The heat recovery system will comply with the ventilation requirements of Part L but not the renewable requirements. You will find when you apply for your grant in a year when SEI see your MPRN number they will be able to tell exactly when your house was built and refuse your grant application.

to kinda quote my last entry about - we talked to our engineer who said to hold out on the solar panel and we agreed.

we asked for a compliant house, he gave us the specs for one so we can sue him for lead us astray.

Part L goes as follows

b) providing that, for new dwellings, a reasonable proportion
of the energy consumption to meet the energy performance
of a dwelling is provided by renewable energy sources;
Heat recovery system and condensing oil burned covers this. The heat recovery system is the renewable energy source, it is classified as one under sei. It helps the house stay at a certain temp meaning less oil is required to burn to heat the house. The condensing oil burner will also use 90% of the oil to heat, unlike the old ones which used 50% so the carbon footprint is much much lower. To help use even less oil, have a fire on, the heat recovery system will use this to help heat the rest of the house. But be careful as the heat recovery only distributes the heat already created into other rooms and it does not create any.

(c) limiting heat loss and, where appropriate, availing of heat
gain through the fabric of the dwelling;
heat recovery system does not work unless the house is air tight and well insulated

(d) providing and commissioning energy efficient space and
water heating systems with efficient heat sources and effective
controls;
termostats on radiators and temp gages - they are pritty standard now in all new builds, every quote we got had them inculded without us mentioning it

(e) providing that all oil and gas fired boilers shall meet a minimum
seasonal net efficiency of 86%;
condensing oil burner is 90% efficient

now can we stop this crap about part l, every forum it is the same old rant about part l. people who are building a house will research what to do, the engineers and builders will advise what to do. Part L has come up in every conversation. if people need to inform others about part l open up a new forum and stop bothering us that know. this is a forum on how much does a house cost to build, i e what quotes are people getting per sq ft. People will go and get a quote, which will include a spec and bring it back to their engineer who will advise accordingly.Then they can start worrying about part l.

Sorry for the rant but i have left only 8 or 9 posts since i joined and all i keep hearing is this Part L and i am really sick of it.

if you are building a house you have an engineer and / or a contractor. make sure you advise them you want a house that is compliant with todays building regulations. sign the contract. if they do not comply, sue, end of story. (another appology as i couldn't be bothered spell checking this)

sydthebeat

AJE wrote: »

we asked for a compliant house, he gave us the specs for one so we can sue him for lead us astray.

what an excellent way to begin a working relationship...

no question as to the actual competence of the engineer then??

AJE... your tone in the above post is uncalled for. Currahee1 is giving you correct advise...

Heat recovery ventilation is not a heating source therefore does NOTHING with your requirement to provide renewable energy. The advantages of HRV system are taken into account when the DEAP calculations are carried out, and aid greatly in reducing your co2 efficient... but not your renewable requirement...

People are going on about Part L because its probably the singular biggest change to happen to domestic construction since the introduction of the building regulations in 1991....

There are three main requirements for compliance... (there are more, but 3 main ones)...

1. You must provide renewable energy sources, the energy requirement is based in the size of the dwelling..

2. You also need to reduce your energy demand to 40% greater than that which existed in the previous regs (2005)

3. you need to reduce your carbon output to 40% greater than that which existined in the previous regs (2005)

your HRV system will help you to comply with 2. and 3. above, but not 1.

There is NO GRANT available to you, a builder of a new home....!!!!!


You asked a query about how much are build costs.... do not complain when someone tells you what you need to include in your build costs.. there is absolutely no point in costing up and not including renewables...

if you are suggesting knowingly not complying with the regs, go ahead, but that will result in an immediate ban for you from this forum...

AJE

syde you are a knowledge contributor and i respect what you have to say but read what i am trying to say

firstly, i didn't ask how much it costs, i already have a quote and i was try to contribute to others. then people started talking about Part L which isn't what this thread is about.

thats why my tone is poor, this is about how much to build, people are looking to see if they can even afford to build and are not interested yet about part L. If people wish to give advce then use the pm system, ban me if you wish but it would not be totally justified.

to get back to what this thread is about it is costing me 73 euro a sq ft to build, south galway

AJE

other advice in relation to quotes guys, when your house is 12 months old (which is from when the house complies to the co. co. planning authority), you can get a grant for putting in renewable energy products, even if it is a new build. talk to a company that do bers or go to an sustainable energy show and they will tell you the same.

also i have noticed the bigger the house the smaller the quote per sq ft, this is due to buying materials in bigger bulks is cheaper for the builder and they can save on stuff like capentry materials and bricks etc. but this depends on your budget and your plans. if you are not local and you are buying a site which already has planning on it you will not be able to change it as easy to get the lower quote per sq ft.

an example of this is a house size of 2400 sq ft may cost you 185k to build (78 euro a sq ft) and a house of 4000 sq foot may cost you 250k to build (63 euro a sq ft).

Thats 75k for another 1600 sq foot and is very tempting (22 euro a sq ft) but take into consideration thats an extra 1600 sq ft to heat

sydthebeat

AJE wrote: »

syde you are a knowledge contributor and i respect what you have to say but read what i am trying to say

firstly, i didn't ask how much it costs, i already have a quote and i was try to contribute to others. then people started talking about Part L which isn't what this thread is about.

thats why my tone is poor, this is about how much to build, people are looking to see if they can even afford to build and are not interested yet about part L. If people wish to give advice then use the pm system, ban me if you wish but it would not be totally justified.

to get back to what this thread is about it is costing me 73 euro a sq ft to build, south galway

as compliance with building regulations will most certainly influence costs, then part L, along with all the others, deserve a strong mention in a thread called "how much to build now?"....

AJE... lets just clear things up here...
what size house are you building and how will you comply (or how has your 'engineer' specified compliance?...

secondly.... there is NO GRANT available to builders of new homes....
nor will there be a grant available to retrofit a home being built currently.. ....you are deluding yourself if you think there will be...

how will you get your build certified when it doesnt comply?

AJE

sydthebeat wrote: »

as compliance with building regulations will most certainly influence costs, then part L, along with all the others, deserve a strong mention in a thread called "how much to build now?"....

AJE... lets just clear things up here...
what size house are you building and how will you comply (or how has your 'engineer' specified compliance?...

secondly.... there is NO GRANT available to builders of new homes....
nor will there be a grant available to retrofit a home being built currently.. ....you are deluding yourself if you think there will be...

how will you get your build certified when it doesnt comply?

i will link this to another thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055073902

see mellor

also, we will have everything in place for a solar panel. If you read some of my previous entries (not too sure if it is in this one) you will see we are not willing to put a solar panel on the mortgage (it will take way longer to pay for itself) and we wish to save up for one. It will be put in when the house is 12 months old. The engineer (who we found after research is quite good at his job) said this is no prob and all the guys at the sustainable energy shows said that heat recovery complies with all of part L. I also asked in this thread how much it costs to run an air to water pump but nobody seems to have seen that. It would be nice to know if it is the same as oil. I can't see that is but does anyone know?

sydthebeat

AJE wrote: »

i will link this to another thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055073902

see mellor

also, we will have everything in place for a solar panel. If you read some of my previous entries (not too sure if it is in this one) you will see we are not willing to put a solar panel on the mortgage (it will take way longer to pay for itself) and we wish to save up for one. It will be put in when the house is 12 months old. The engineer (who we found after research is quite good at his job) said this is no prob and all the guys at the sustainable energy shows said that heat recovery complies with all of part L. I also asked in this thread how much it costs to run an air to water pump but nobody seems to have seen that. It would be nice to know if it is the same as oil. I can't see that is but does anyone know?

dont know why you linked to that thread??...

if you click on the number of the post in the top right hand corner of the post, you can link directly to the post....

answer my questions to clear up where you are coming from... what is teh size of your house and how will you comply with part l 2008??? if you are installing a heat pump that should give you your renewable requirement, once the system i sproperly certified....

there are many things wrong with the way you are proposing to go..

1. In order to get a dwelling certified, the dwelling needs to be complete. This is important when drawing mortgage finances. A dwelling can not be certified until it has its part L renewables installed.

2. every dwelling built from 1st july 2009 onwards must comply with part l 2008. if you wait for 12 months after your house is complete and apply for the greener homes grant scheme, you WILL be told that you do not qualify for a grant as your 2009 dwelling should comply with 2008 regulations!

3. if your engineer has specified incorrectly, it does not indemnify you for failing to comply with building regulations. If your local building control authority come a-calling and your dwelling is not compliant YOU will be the subject of enforcement action.... the worst that can happen to your certifier is that he can be struck from whatever body he belongs...

sinnerboy

AJE wrote: »

I also asked in this thread how much it costs to run an air to water pump but nobody seems to have seen that. It would be nice to know if it is the same as oil. I can't see that is but does anyone know?

Read this

http://www.bsdlive.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3142370

and this you will see why no one seems to know

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=4174&page=1#Item_8

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sinnerboy

This is worthwhile reading through also

http://www.constructireland.ie/vb/showthread.php?t=746

sinnerboy

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500071

AJE

sinnerboy wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500071

firstly can i just say, sinnerboy you are a legend, great link

secondly, if one reads the link i previously posted, you will come across an entry by a person called mellor who talks about complying with Part L -

the link again is http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055073902


they say

"...[a]s I said in my post there are three ways to comply with Part L.

Elemental U Values
Overall Heat loss
Heat Energy Rating
You only have to comply with one.


If you choose to go the route of HER then you have to meet KWh/m2y limits.
As I said you don't have to go this route,"

What do they mean by you only have to comply with one, why don't they mention one must have a renewable? I mean u values we have, we'll have very little heat loss and our energy rating will be a B1 (A3 in a year when we put on a solar panel)


Now Syd, thanks for your help by the way although this is going against what i said earlier about keep the threads to what they are subjected as.

You asked/said:

"1. In order to get a dwelling certified, the dwelling needs to be complete. This is important when drawing mortgage finances. A dwelling can not be certified until it has its part L renewables installed."

Called the galway co. co. and asked when is the house noted to be a house, they said when it complies to a certain (again certain) building spec, ie wall plate level or roof on etc etc. They then said you a few years (meaning more than 1 and less than 'they couldn't specifiy') to comply with all the remaining conditions on the plans. Therefore, one can take that the house (in the eyes of the county planner) is built when it basically has a roof on it (but we will go by when it is plastered on the outside with windows). I had this phone call a few weeks ago after talking with our engineer. Also, have you noticed that estate agents look at the windows to see when a house was built? take alook inside your window, they have dates on when they were made.

"2. every dwelling built from 1st july 2009 onwards must comply with part l 2008. if you wait for 12 months after your house is complete and apply for the greener homes grant scheme, you WILL be told that you do not qualify for a grant as your 2009 dwelling should comply with 2008 regulations!"

Again see the link, this is getting confusing. Every solar panel company has said we can put one in after 12 months. (the delay for this thread is due to me searching the apt for the number of a very good company who advised this but i can't find it!!! typical) I mean what you have said now goes against everything we have been told by companies that install solar panels etc etc. It is not in there interest not to sell us something straight away. We went to the sei show and spoke with 3 companies who all said the same. When our engineer said it, that is when we clicked and said, install everything but the panel. We are getting a hot water tank with a solar panel coil and install the panel later. HOWEVER, it is worth any risk that we may not get a grant cause we will still save in the long run by not putting the extra 4k on the mortgage, which, will overall cost 6kplus when the mortgage is paid

"3. if your engineer has specified incorrectly, it does not indemnify you for failing to comply with building regulations. If your local building control authority come a-calling and your dwelling is not compliant YOU will be the subject of enforcement action.... the worst that can happen to your certifier is that he can be struck from whatever body he belongs..."

As a lawyer, one of the first thing you learn is that a verbal contract that was relied on is still a contract (the saying that 'it isn't worth the paper it ain't written on' is total rubbish). An engineer has indemnity insurance for this reason (lawyers need it to). Also, one needs to trust what their engineer says, you need a good relationship with ppl they build with, if he says the build is fine then i do believe it will be fine. At the end of the day he will be the one dealing with all the people who come out to the site to see if we have complied with xyz as well as L.

As for part l, I'm tired of defending myself about this. We know what we are doing, we know what we want. we know we have a budget to work with. We believe in our engineer and what he has said to us. We have researched and spent a few 100 quid on books etc. We are not going into this blind. If anyone says what about part L to me after this i am going to say from 'what about it' and 'call our engineer if you want to know about' from now on

Finally, i wish to apologies to all those who are looking to see an estimate on how much it will cost to build in relation to their budget and googled to this link. The thread has totally gone away from this which i tried to stop and got caught into myself Thank you sinnerboy for that link. it is the whole reason why i signed up for on boards, again, legend! and thanks to Syd for your help, but as i said i am fed up and probably won't bother with this thread, thanks for your patient

sinnerboy

Mellors post pre dates TGDL 2008 . Syd is correct . You MUST NOW have a min % renewables

If you want to continue - please start a new thread

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sinnerboy

AJE wrote: »

Our builder does BER ratings also.

Thats against SEI code of practice . A builder cannot ( comply with the code and ) issue a BER cert on a property he sells

( sorry mods thread is totally de railed now - but i could not let that slip by )

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MacTheKnife1

Personally I would put in the solar now:

- Your builder will be able to slate perfectly round the panels now. If you have to come back in a year and tear out the tiles then you might not get as snug a fit.

- Your builder can place extra support in the roof in the area the panels are being placed.

- Your builder can run the pipes thru the partitions right to the tank. In a years time you might be damaging plaster/paint work to route the pipes.

- As has been pointed out already here by others by putting in the panels now you will meet Part X of the building regs. (I use X there so as not to mention part L of the building Regs as you seem averse to any mention of it :pac:.

mr_edge_to_you

AJE wrote: »

other advice in relation to quotes guys, when your house is 12 months old (which is from when the house complies to the co. co. planning authority), you can get a grant for putting in renewable energy products, even if it is a new build. talk to a company that do bers or go to an sustainable energy show and they will tell you the same.

also i have noticed the bigger the house the smaller the quote per sq ft, this is due to buying materials in bigger bulks is cheaper for the builder and they can save on stuff like capentry materials and bricks etc. but this depends on your budget and your plans. if you are not local and you are buying a site which already has planning on it you will not be able to change it as easy to get the lower quote per sq ft.

an example of this is a house size of 2400 sq ft may cost you 185k to build (78 euro a sq ft) and a house of 4000 sq foot may cost you 250k to build (63 euro a sq ft).

Thats 75k for another 1600 sq foot and is very tempting (22 euro a sq ft) but take into consideration thats an extra 1600 sq ft to heat

There will be no grants given by the end of the year - no way the government can afford it! Could be a pointless wait in my opinion!

muffler

Im very disappointed that this thread has run completely through the hedge. I'll try to do something with it but Jesus what a mess.

Locked


Edit: If someone wants to start a new thread on compliance with part L then please do so and do it in the right forum and I can then move these posts to that new thread.