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Taxi soiling charge

  • 16-06-2009 7:42pm
    #1
    darach.c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭


    Hi,

    I am looking for advice on not paying a taxi soilage charge, or reducing the amount.
    On Saturday night I got a taxi to a party. The driver allowed me to drink a beer in the taxi. On getting out I spilt a small bit of beer on one side of the back seat. He demanded I pay 140 euro soilage fee!
    I refused, and he said he was calling the Gardai.
    When the guards arrived I admitted to the mistake but argued my case. The Gardai were quite casual about trhe whole situation and so was I, thinking nothing would come of the situation.

    Anyway they got him down to 100 euro and said I had to pay or they will charge me! I offered to valet the car but he refused.
    How can a small bit of beer constitute 100 euros. And he got a new fare while the guards were there, so loss of income is not an issue. I feel robbed, although do not want to risk getting a criminal record for not paying!

    Any advice would be much appreciated!
    Cheers.


Comments

  • #2
    thecornerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭thecornerboy


    darach.c wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am looking for advice on not paying a taxi soilage charge, or reducing the amount.
    On Saturday night I got a taxi to a party. The driver allowed me to drink a beer in the taxi. On getting out I spilt a small bit of beer on one side of the back seat. He demanded I pay 140 euro soilage fee!
    I refused, and he said he was calling the Gardai.
    When the guards arrived I admitted to the mistake but argued my case. The Gardai were quite casual about trhe whole situation and so was I, thinking nothing would come of the situation.

    Anyway they got him down to 100 euro and said I had to pay or they will charge me! I offered to valet the car but he refused.
    How can a small bit of beer constitute 100 euros. And he got a new fare while the guards were there, so loss of income is not an issue. I feel robbed, although do not want to risk getting a criminal record for not paying!

    Any advice would be much appreciated!
    Cheers.

    What were they going to charge you with? I would have called their bluff.


  • #3
    darach.c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭darach.c


    Yeah I dont know yet, think I might just do that!


  • #4
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    You couldn't get a criminal record, it would be a civil matter. Soilage charge is supposed to be compensation for loss of earnings while getting cleaned, not as a way to quick profit. Get on to the taxi regulator and see what they say?


  • #5
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    thecornerboy wrote: »
    What were they going to charge you with? I would have called their bluff.

    Criminal damage I'd say.


  • #6
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    MarkR wrote: »
    You couldn't get a criminal record, it would be a civil matter.

    If he had gotten a charge out of it, he could have very well have gotten a record if convicted.


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  • #7
    peanuthead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭peanuthead


    cushtac wrote: »
    If he had gotten a charge out of it, he could have very well have gotten a record if convicted.


    but not a criminal one I wouldn't think.

    A criminal record is something thats going to get you, say, refused entry into the states. I don't think OP will have to cancel his hypothetical once yearly trip to Miami because he spilt a drop of beer in a taxi and didn't pay.

    However OP, if it does go further if you don't pay, which it sounds like it will if the taxi-man has anything to do with it, it will just result in a larger fine.


  • #8
    Jev/N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    cushtac wrote: »
    If he had gotten a charge out of it, he could have very well have gotten a record if convicted.

    :rolleyes: Ah now, for spilling some beer in a taxi, when the driver allowed him to? lol

    It's not even a criminal matter


  • #9
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    peanuthead wrote: »
    but not a criminal one I wouldn't think.

    A criminal record is something thats going to get you, say, refused entry into the states. I don't think OP will have to cancel his hypothetical once yearly trip to Miami because he spilt a drop of beer in a taxi and didn't pay.

    If the OP were to be convicted in a court then it certainly would be a criminal record.
    Jev/N wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Ah now, for spilling some beer in a taxi, when the driver allowed him to? lol

    It's not even a criminal matter

    If the Gardaí decided to charge him then it would most definitely be a criminal matter at that stage.


  • #10
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    I can't see what you would be charged with, other than possibly criminal damage. There's always the ol' faithful drunk and disorderly, if that was the case.

    Assuming it is a charge of criminal damage, by my estimation you're safe. Section 1 of the Criminal Damage Act 1991 says
    "to damage" includes to destroy, deface, dismantle or, whether temporarily or otherwise, render inoperable or unfit for use or prevent or impair the operation of property.
    It'd take a fairly strenuous interpretation to say that spilling some beer on a seat comes close to any of those.

    Also, the charge has a proviso of lawful excuse. If he let you drink in the taxi, that could easily be construed as such.

    In the phenomenally unlikely event that this goes to court, I'd say you'd get a compensation order, requiring to pay for the cleaning of the seat. I don't know if that gives you a criminal record or not.

    All this is probably moot anyway.


  • #11
    Jev/N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    cushtac wrote: »
    If the OP were to be convicted in a court then it certainly would be a criminal record.

    If the Gardaí decided to charge him then it would most definitely be a criminal matter at that stage.

    Jim_Are_Great has already pointed these out but i'll reiterate:

    1. Read the Criminal Damage Act 1991, there's little or no chance of any of it's provisions being invoked in the aforementioned circumstances!

    2. If it ever went to Court he may get a fine which more than likely wouldn't be put on is record, probation act etc.


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  • #12
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Jev/N wrote: »
    1. Read the Criminal Damage Act 1991, there's little or no chance of any of it's provisions being invoked in the aforementioned circumstances!

    I am familiar with the act and having seen people arrested & charged for this before I can tell you that there is every chance of it being used in these circumstances. Whether or not this case would result in a prosecution in court is another thing.
    Jev/N wrote: »
    2. If it ever went to Court he may get a fine which more than likely wouldn't be put on is record, probation act etc.

    He may get probation & told to pay compensation, he may also come up in front of an irate judge who's not in a forgiving mood and decides not to apply the probation act. It can & does happen, the prospect of going to court should not be dismissed so lightly.


  • #13
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    darach.c wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am looking for advice on not paying a taxi soilage charge, or reducing the amount.
    On Saturday night I got a taxi to a party. The driver allowed me to drink a beer in the taxi. On getting out I spilt a small bit of beer on one side of the back seat. He demanded I pay 140 euro soilage fee!
    I refused, and he said he was calling the Gardai.
    When the guards arrived I admitted to the mistake but argued my case. The Gardai were quite casual about trhe whole situation and so was I, thinking nothing would come of the situation.

    Anyway they got him down to 100 euro and said I had to pay or they will charge me! I offered to valet the car but he refused.
    How can a small bit of beer constitute 100 euros. And he got a new fare while the guards were there, so loss of income is not an issue. I feel robbed, although do not want to risk getting a criminal record for not paying!

    Any advice would be much appreciated!
    Cheers.

    Forget paying is my opinion. The Gardai are not there to barter or haggle. The cabbie is taking the Mick as well as far as I can see.

    I would walk away and not pay.


  • #14
    Johnny Utah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Johnny Utah


    Hilarious........ he expressly allows you to have a drink in the taxi, and then starts crying over spilt milk beer...... What a baby! :D

    Plus, you're bound to get some spillage if you're hitting speed ramps at 40 mph!


  • #15
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Leaving aside the Criminal Damage Act is there not something in the Taxi Regs/SI's which criminalise not payment of fare/charges?

    By the way I'm not suggesting the OP should pay this, personally if this happened to me as described I'd be telling Mr. taxi-man where to go.


  • #16
    trailerparkboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭trailerparkboy


    This was a local Dublin driver?


  • #17
    TaxiManMartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭TaxiManMartin


    Some of the guys will charge the soiling charge for the smallest thing. I had a guy tell me he got a soiling charge for someone dropping a bag of chips on the seat and another for someone getting mud on the seat. A wipe of the cloth and its all gone. But he made a lot of money for that wipe of the cloth.

    Its extra income if you can get away with it.


  • #18
    darach.c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭darach.c


    Thanks all for your replys!

    I'm still unsure what to do as I have to pay by tomorrow, but on principle I don't think I'll pay it.

    Maybe an offer of a valet might suffice, and if not it could stand to me in court, if it goes further.

    Cheers.


  • #19
    TaxiManMartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭TaxiManMartin


    darach.c wrote: »
    Thanks all for your replys!

    I'm still unsure what to do as I have to pay by tomorrow, but on principle I don't think I'll pay it.

    Maybe an offer of a valet might suffice, and if not it could stand to me in court, if it goes further.

    Cheers.

    If someone spliied a drink on my car and it could be cleaned properly without the need to valet the whole car id just charge them for the cleaning bit.

    If i was you i wouldnt pay him. Offer him to get it valeted by someone you know or he can stick it. Sure you have the cops to say how bad the stain was.


  • #20
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,560 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    To be honest, I don't know who's worse, you or the taxi driver.

    The taxi driver sounds like a bit of an opportunist, on the other hand, couldn't you have at least waited until you got to your destination to commence your imbibery?


  • #21
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Regardless of who'se fault it was, please try to remember that soilage charges also have to take into account the "drying" time after cleaning, I'm sure not many people would like a wet arse getting out of the taxi when thery get home or to the club/restaurent/airport etc.


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  • #22
    thecornerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭thecornerboy


    The Gardaí were completely out of order threatening to charge you if you didn't pay. I would complain to the Ombudsman if that happened to me. It's a civil matter between you and the taxi driver. The issue of having beer is another matter, I'd imagine if you said in court the taxi driver gave you permission to carry it in his car the charge would be thrown out.

    Any update?


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