Suggestion for Saturday Spins

Chips Lovell

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while and there's already been a bit of discussion going in other threads, most recently here and here.

Over the past year or so there's been an explosion in the number of people using the cycling forum and a lot of people are asking about the Saturday spins. A consequence of this is that we now seem to have a pretty big variance in abilities, from newcomers to folks training for the Marmotte. While the Saturday spins have traditionally tried to accomodate everyone, that seems to be getting a bit trickier as time goes on.

I suspect that the upshot is that some people aren't coming out when they'd really like to. I've seen newcomers posting that they'd really need to do some serious training on their own before hitting a Boards spin and more experienced heads shying away sometimes because they want a faster spin and not be out all day.

So, my suggestion is that perhaps we try two spins every Saturday. We can all meet up at the same time and place as usual and have a bit of a chat, but then split into two spins, e.g:

1. Beginners 60-70km spin at around 20kph
2. Experienced 100-120km spin at around 25kph

That way we can get the new folks to come along without scaring them off completely. As usual, we could leave exact routes up to the participants themselves, with maybe a volunteer from the experienced crew going with the newcomers if no one in that bunch is sure of the way.

What do people think?

Nietzschean

+1 sounds like a great idea

Acoustic

somewhere over north dub would be good as usual spins are always south dub

ROK ON

Makes perfect sense.

Jawgap

I think the "twin routes" approach is a good idea.

My main problem is timing - the agreement I have with my kids is that I can cycle all I want on Saturday and Sunday mornings as long as I'm back by 9-00am!

So I tend to start off very early! In terms of saddle time I do alright between that and extended work commutes - last week I clocked up nearly 300km!!

I use the Park quite a bit- easy enough to do laps there, nice variety of roads and when it's time for work I can be in the office in 15mins!

TinyExplosions

A good plan, and I'd have no problem going around with the Beginners group every now and then

Jawgap

Can we call it the "improvers group" - beginners group makes me want to put the stabilisers back on the bike!:)

Raam

For spins going north, I'd suggest a meeting point other than the Pope's Cross. Certainly for spins going west, the cross is fine.

lukester

Sounds eminently sensible, especially as groups get larger and abilities vary more widely. Like they do (I'm told) on club spins.

Nietzschean

Raam wrote: »

For spins going north, I'd suggest a meeting point other than the Pope's Cross. Certainly for spins going west, the cross is fine.

start of the cycle lane by clontarf might be good for northward spins heading up howth/malahide direction i suppose?

Acoustic

Raam wrote: »

For spins going north, I'd suggest a meeting point other than the Pope's Cross. Certainly for spins going west, the cross is fine.

you know alot about that area yeah

Caroline_ie

I agree - and I also think that people shoudl able to gauge what they can accomplish themself and when they are on a spin that is 'too much' for them and be able to turn aroubd and cycle home alone, without a guide. It's happened to me before, it's happened to a few of us where we weren't able to go on and turned back

We will be happier boardsies that way

Lumen

Jawgap wrote: »

My main problem is timing - the agreement I have with my kids is that I can cycle all I want on Saturday and Sunday mornings as long as I'm back by 9-00am!

So I tend to start off very early! In terms of saddle time I do alright between that and extended work commutes - last week I clocked up nearly 300km!

We need an "under the thumb" spin. My latest arrangements involve leaving D15 at 06:00 to be back before 10:00.

lukester

Lumen wrote: »

We need an "under the thumb" spin. My latest arrangements involve leaving D15 at 06:00 to be back before 10:00.

Sign me up for that group :pac:

Caroline_ie

lukester wrote: »

Sounds eminently sensible, especially as groups get larger and abilities vary more widely. Like they do (I'm told) on club spins.

The thing is we are not a club, we should not be anyone's liability.

niceonetom

This smacks of elitism. I'm completely on board.

Jawgap

Nietzschean wrote: »

start of the cycle lane by clontarf might be good for northward spins heading up howth/malahide direction i suppose?

That wind in the sails sculpture thingy is a good landmark -

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/22028123

DirkVoodoo

Maybe, through the magic of our usual boards logistic genius, we could even work out routes and times so that we could ALL meet up at a lunch spot like Laragh or Enniskerry?

I'm all for faster saturday spins, but it's still nice to meet people and have a cup of coffee afterwards.

Jawgap

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Maybe, through the magic of our usual boards logistic genius, we could even work out routes and times so that we could ALL meet up at a lunch spot like Laragh or Enniskerry?

I'm all for faster saturday spins, but it's still nice to meet people and have a cup of coffee afterwards.

Would that just turn into a race - like a team time trial or something!!!:)

Nietzschean

Jawgap wrote: »

That wind in the sails sculpture thingy is a good landmark -

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/22028123

is that there? i think i'm blind cause i've never noticed anything so colourful as i've passed....

DirkVoodoo

Jawgap wrote: »

Would that just turn into a race - like a team time trial or something!!!:)

I like where you are going with this.

I just mean that if we can do some rough calculation of estimate ride times and likely rendezvous points, maybe some person could blast a txt off. I'm not looking for precision here, if the groups meet within 15 minutes of each other that is more realistic.

Raam

Jawgap wrote: »

That wind in the sails sculpture thingy is a good landmark -

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/22028123

For Howth maybe, but if you are going proper North County, it's a bit out of the way, out of my way!

Jawgap

Nietzschean wrote: »

is that there? i think i'm blind cause i've never noticed anything so colourful as i've passed....

Yeah - it's kind of at the start of the cycle lanes where the one from North Strand meets the one coming off Alfie Byrne Road.

Maybe it's not as colourful as it has been - make sure you don't ride into it!!:)

Nietzschean

Caroline_ie wrote: »

The thing is we are not a club, we should not be anyone's liability.

uh trueish, i think that sort of philosophy certainly has a place on the faster spin maybe, but the slow one should remain about the whole no man left behind, get most people who want to try involved, egg them on and get everyone around....

lyders

Absolutely awesome idea....

As a newbie and someone who is quite competitive I would much prefer to so some spins with others of the same and better ability. I'm no good training on my own, especially when i'm new to this and don't know many routes. But going on the normal saturday spins kind of scares me!

Although sundays would probably be better for me.

Jawgap

Raam wrote: »

For Howth maybe, but if you are going proper North County, it's a bit out of the way, out of my way!

Out the coast road, turn at Baldoyle - up through Malahide and out at Swords then the breadth of North County Dublin lies at your feet!!

Swords Main Street - outside the Garda Station as a starting point?

Nietzschean

Raam wrote: »

For Howth maybe, but if you are going proper North County, it's a bit out of the way, out of my way!

better suggestion? i'm not sure what other cycling routes are up that way myself without going quite far west? or a longer northly spin?

Raam

Nietzschean wrote: »

better suggestion? i'm not sure what other cycling routes are up that way myself without going quite far west? or a longer northly spin?

There are a million routes in the North County. Honestly, no end to them, roads everywhere.

I'd be thinking of somewhere near Kinsealy as a meet point. It's about the same distance from O'Connell St as Dundrum is.

scottreynolds

Nietzschean wrote: »

start of the cycle lane by clontarf might be good for northward spins heading up howth/malahide direction i suppose?

+1 There == Good Idea.

Nietzschean

Raam wrote: »

There are a million routes in the North County. Honestly, no end to them, roads everywhere.

I'd be thinking of somewhere near Kinsealy as a meet point. It's about the same distance from O'Connell St as Dundrum is.

*google maps kinsealy* , yeah seems like a grand location...tbh i'm all in favor of some northside direction spins, mainly because my knowledge of the geography up there is pants

lukester

Caroline_ie wrote: »

The thing is we are not a club, we should not be anyone's liability.

True, but splitting the groups would allow for new people to get involved without fear of holding anyone up or getting dropped.

If you were going with the more experienced group, you'd know anyway if you weren't up to it on the day and could just bail out, wouldn't expect anyone to wait for you or guide you home.

On the other group there would be more of the hanging in there together ethos.

Chips Lovell

Few more points: This all depends on enough numbers showing up for each type of spin. So it may require a bit of extra liaison on a Friday.

Acoustic wrote: »

somewhere over north dub would be good as usual spins are always south dub

Yes, they tend to be Wicklow-centric alright. But routes are usually selected by consensus and a lot of the non-competitive riders are working their way up to hilly sportifs like the Wicklow 200 or Sean Kelly Tour and want to ride that kind of terrain.

Jawgap wrote: »

My main problem is timing - the agreement I have with my kids is that I can cycle all I want on Saturday and Sunday mornings as long as I'm back by 9-00am!

I know we're not going to be able to accomodate everyone. It's hard enough trying to get people to congregate at 9 unfortunately. For example, my preference would be an 8am start, but that doesn't suit a lot of people.

TinyExplosions wrote: »

A good plan, and I'd have no problem going around with the Beginners group every now and then

Good man. I've no problem being tour guide now and then too.

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Maybe, through the magic of our usual boards logistic genius, we could even work out routes and times so that we could ALL meet up at a lunch spot like Laragh or Enniskerry?

I'm all for faster saturday spins, but it's still nice to meet people and have a cup of coffee afterwards.

Might be overcomplicating things a bit? Can be hard to arrange a rendevous on the road and might add to the waiting around time, which we're trying to cut down a bit.

Nietzschean wrote: »

uh trueish, i think that sort of philosophy certainly has a place on the faster spin maybe, but the slow one should remain about the whole no man left behind, get most people who want to try involved, egg them on and get everyone around....

I agree. I think a good rule of thumb is that the beginners/improvers group has a "no drop" policy, i.e. they wait for everyone at selected points such as the top of hills. With the experienced group, you should probably be in a position to know your way home if you find yourself struggling. That's not to say that there probably won't be any waiting at all on the experienced spins, but maybe have the goal that the group comes back together again quick enough after climbs etc.

lukester

Raam wrote: »

There are a million routes in the North County. Honestly, no end to them, roads everywhere.

I've only been on one spin out that way (The Naul) but really enjoyed it, very nice countryside.

More rolling terrain than Wicklow on the route I was on, still a good workout, you just maintain a higher pace.

scottreynolds

Some good ideas here..... this is a summary

1. Lets mix North and South Side routes. I mean once a month North side is better than what we do now. After all most of us would rather climb

2. Clontarf is a good meeting point for the Northside spins. Raam won't mind its really only 20 minutes back peddaling for him.

3. Two groups going off at once head in the same general direction and then splitting is cool.

4. Publish the route in advance. Although I don't care some people prefer to know what to expect and not end up on a short spin in Donard.... with 50km to go

5. Someone should volunteer to 'lead' each group. They should also decide / agree on the route.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Might be overcomplicating things a bit? Can be hard to arrange a rendevous on the road and might add to the waiting around time, which we're trying to cut down a bit.

Simplification: "Hey, we're taking this route on saturday, might be passing through here at around 1pm, might see you there".

scottreynolds

TinyExplosions wrote: »

A good plan, and I'd have no problem going around with the Beginners group every now and then

Clarified this for you ....A good plan, and I'd have no problem going around with the longer group every now and then.

scottreynolds

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Simplification: "Hey, we're taking this route on saturday, might be passing through here at around 1pm, might see you there".

Clontarf - 9am
Pub near swords - 9:12am.
Purpole House on Road - 9:34am
Dirks hairdresser - 10:04am

Raam

scottreynolds wrote: »

2. Clontarf is a good meeting point for the Northside spins. Raam won't mind its really only 20 minutes back peddaling for him.

it already takes 40 minutes riding to get from my house to the countryside in Wicklow. Not mad keen on having it the same way on the Northside when it's on me doorstep!

That's me being selfish, but here is a better reason...

A meet near the quieter roads at the airport is better so that we don't have to marshal a large group out the Malahide Road. There is enough lights on that road to make it frustrating for a large group.

lyders

scottreynolds wrote: »

Clontarf - 9am
Pub near swords - 9:12am.
Purpole House on Road - 9:34am
Dirks hairdresser - 10:04am

Sounds good...i'm very centrally located so any where suits me really.

Jawgap

Sutton Cross as a meeting point and then this?? -

http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=58268

lyders

Jawgap wrote: »

Sutton Cross as a meeting point and then this?? -

http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=58268

So i'm guessing there are more northsiders in the "improvers group" than southsiders!!


But route plan looks good

petethedrummer

The first hill on the Saturday spin should be a time trial to decide which group you're in.:D

Jawgap

lyders wrote: »

So i'm guessing there are more northsiders in the "improvers group" than southsiders!!


But route plan looks good

Yep - we're poor and deprived and only recently got round to nicking a few decent bikes from D4!!!:) Makes a change from horses!

petethedrummer wrote: »

The first hill on the Saturday spin should be a time trial to decide which group you're in.:D

Surely the first spin should be a combined group with the last hill deciding your classification - just need to make sure it's an uphill!

lyders

Jawgap wrote: »

Yep - we're poor and deprived and only recently got round to nicking a few decent bikes from D4!!!:) Makes a change from horses!

Good thing I don't leave my bike outside so!!

Jawgap

lyders wrote: »

Good thing I don't leave my bike outside so!!

What makes you think that's going to save it:)

lyders

Jawgap wrote: »

What makes you think that's going to save it:)

Oh dear!!! :eek:


lol

blorg

petethedrummer wrote: »

The first hill on the Saturday spin should be a time trial to decide which group you're in.:D

To be honest not entirely a crazy idea, that was more or less how the groups were broken in the Tour of Ireland. Published routes with an agreed sandwich stop could let people just get around at their own pace.

I published last week's route and we followed it exactly (excepting taking a slightly easier way to Laragh...) Worked well, everyone got around with not too much waiting despite very disparate abilities.

I have done some nice routes on the Northside too BTW. Key to the Northside (IMHO) is trying to avoid cycling miles through suburbia or on N Roads- there are some good routes out into Meath that get you out quickly enough on back roads.

Vélo

blorg wrote: »

To be honest not entirely a crazy idea, that was more or less how the groups were broken in the Tour of Ireland. Published routes with an agreed sandwich stop could let people just get around at their own pace.

I published last week's route and we followed it exactly (excepting taking a slightly easier way to Laragh...) Worked well, everyone got around with not too much waiting despite very disparate abilities.

I have done some nice routes on the Northside too BTW. Key to the Northside (IMHO) is trying to avoid cycling miles through suburbia or on N Roads- there are some good routes out into Meath that get you out quickly enough on back roads.

Yeah

blorg

Aquinas73 wrote: »

Yeah

Last year we did Wicklow Saturday, Meath Sunday... difficult to give up a Wicklow Saturday and then you can take it easy on the up to 175km jaunt around Meath

I may be away doing the West Cork 200 this weekend, haven't finalised plans there yet.

ROK ON

From next week on I will more than likely not be in Dublin for w/e spins, so maybe cheeky of me to resond at all.

But, firstly thanks Tonto for the idea. It is fine and workable with a bit of co-operation and planning.

I think the idea of starting together is a gret idea. Nebies will get an idea as to the pace, and after a certain point (after Enniskerry/or Lookout at top of Edmondstown/Cruagh) the group could then split.
In some cases more experienced riders may want an easier/recovery spin etc.

My big issue with boards spins, was that I always feel as if people are waiting very long for me, and while welcome, is not always fair.
Some folks need to get this stuff in as training etc, so in general it is not conducive for them to be waiting (and getting cold) for slower people (like me).

But people should be honest with themselves in the following regard
(1) what do you want from the cycle,
(2) how hard are you prepared to push yourself,
(3) are you going to wait, or would you prefer to push hard.

Once a person answers these issues, then depending n form/ability the group will be decided for you. Given that many many folk have waited for me, I do believe the the 2nd group should have a wait at top/bottom of climbs ethos.
Would love to be in the faster group, but am a few stone and at least another year of training away from that I reckon.

lyders

ROK ON wrote: »

From next week on I will more than likely not be in Dublin for w/e spins, so maybe cheeky of me to resond at all.

But, firstly thanks Tonto for the idea. It is fine and workable with a bit of co-operation and planning.

I think the idea of starting together is a gret idea. Nebies will get an idea as to the pace, and after a certain point (after Enniskerry/or Lookout at top of Edmondstown/Cruagh) the group could then split.
In some cases more experienced riders may want an easier/recovery spin etc.

My big issue with boards spins, was that I always feel as if people are waiting very long for me, and while welcome, is not always fair.
Some folks need to get this stuff in as training etc, so in general it is not conducive for them to be waiting (and getting cold) for slower people (like me).

But people should be honest with themselves in the following regard
(1) what do you want from the cycle,
(2) how hard are you prepared to push yourself,
(3) are you going to wait, or would you prefer to push hard.

Once a person answers these issues, then depending n form/ability the group will be decided for you. Given that many many folk have waited for me, I do believe the the 2nd group should have a wait at top/bottom of climbs ethos.
Would love to be in the faster group, but am a few stone and at least another year of training away from that I reckon.

Some definite good points there.

I agree completely with the "no man left behind" ethos. I think the improver spins should be just that. A chance for newbies like myself to improve and move up to faster, longer rides.