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The horrible letter from his 'dad'..

  • 16-06-2009 11:27AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭


    In theory, this should be on the parenting board, but it's about a man who will not be a parent and how I deal with it so I think it's more of a personal issue, but mods, feel free to move it if it's in the wrong place.

    Won't bore any of you with details but am a single mum to 6yr old boy. His father, after a 2yr relationship, decided he didn't want a child and left me. I've raised my little fella alone and have not had a relationship since his dad and I split. I have been to court with his dad and receive a (paltry) amount of maintenance.

    I got involved with some single parent support groups early-on and found them fantastic - sometimes I think I coudln't have gotten this far without them. Their advice to me, down the years has been to try to 'build a bridge' or 'keep the door open' for his dad to come back into his life so every christmas and on my sons birthay, I wrote his dad a note saying heres a recent photo and our address, should you decide to contact him. He's never replied. Until last week.

    Last week I received a letter from him. It stated 'You made a choice that you had no right to make when you had that child. Irish law insists that I must pay for your choice. I do not now and I will not ever want a relationship with your son. Stop writing to me.' It was accompanied by a solicitors letter which stated all of the above, in legal terms.

    My 'choice' as he so kindly put it, is my (our) 6 year old son. Needless to say, I cried for a long time. My letter to him recently (on my sons 6th birthday) stated the usual but I also asked for an increase in maintenance, which I'm guessing is why I got the above reaction.

    So what to do now?

    Do I go back to court? Do I burn the letter and forget about him? Do I keep the letter so that my son is aware of his fathers appalling attitude towards him?

    There's a part of me that wants to stick those posters up around the town, with his photo on, just so everyone in our village will know what a horrible man he is but I won't let myself down by doing that.

    Please keep in mind that there has been no contact between us for 6 and a half years so any animosity he has had towards me in the past, should be long gone at this stage. But it obviously has not. And please don't say that I'm only giving my side of the story, because of course I am, because I'm the one looking for advice. The facts are that we have had no contact (except for court ordered maintenance) since I was pregnant which was over 6yrs ago now. He gets two notes per year from me. Thats it.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    In theory, this should be on the parenting board, but it's about a man who will not be a parent and how I deal with it so I think it's more of a personal issue, but mods, feel free to move it if it's in the wrong place.

    Won't bore any of you with details but am a single mum to 6yr old boy. His father, after a 2yr relationship, decided he didn't want a child and left me. I've raised my little fella alone and have not had a relationship since his dad and I split. I have been to court with his dad and receive a (paltry) amount of maintenance.

    I got involved with some single parent support groups early-on and found them fantastic - sometimes I think I coudln't have gotten this far without them. Their advice to me, down the years has been to try to 'build a bridge' or 'keep the door open' for his dad to come back into his life so every christmas and on my sons birthay, I wrote his dad a note saying heres a recent photo and our address, should you decide to contact him. He's never replied. Until last week.

    Last week I received a letter from him. It stated 'You made a choice that you had no right to make when you had that child. Irish law insists that I must pay for your choice. I do not now and I will not ever want a relationship with your son. Stop writing to me.' It was accompanied by a solicitors letter which stated all of the above, in legal terms.

    My 'choice' as he so kindly put it, is my (our) 6 year old son. Needless to say, I cried for a long time. My letter to him recently (on my sons 6th birthday) stated the usual but I also asked for an increase in maintenance, which I'm guessing is why I got the above reaction.

    So what to do now?

    Do I go back to court? Do I burn the letter and forget about him? Do I keep the letter so that my son is aware of his fathers appalling attitude towards him?

    There's a part of me that wants to stick those posters up around the town, with his photo on, just so everyone in our village will know what a horrible man he is but I won't let myself down by doing that.

    Please keep in mind that there has been no contact between us for 6 and a half years so any animosity he has had towards me in the past, should be long gone at this stage. But it obviously has not. And please don't say that I'm only giving my side of the story, because of course I am, because I'm the one looking for advice. The facts are that we have had no contact (except for court ordered maintenance) since I was pregnant which was over 6yrs ago now. He gets two notes per year from me. Thats it.


    Stop sending him the notes and letters. He has made it clear he has no interest in either you or your son. It is his loss, but also his decision. And don't put up signs of anything else, that just makes you look petty. Love your son, move on with your life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,138 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    It must have been very upsetting to receive a letter like that.

    Of course you had the right to have your child, and he's not paying for your choice, but for his legal responsibility as the biological father of the child. He seems to have a very skewed view of rights and responsibilities.

    However, nothing can compel him to have contact with the kid, and he has the right to be a knob if he wants to be. But to be honest, as a knob, you and your son are proabably better off without him. Don't waste the price of the stamps writing to him again.

    As for what to do with the letter, I don't really know. But, as I'm sure you'll agree, I wouldn't tell your son about it until he's well old enough to deal with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    There weren't notes AND letters.

    There were 2 lines in each note, which I sent following advice given by single parent support groups. I have witnessed many, many cases where a father has 'come round' when he saw a picture of his child and made contact. I HAVE moved on with my life but this is an issue that will unfortunately be IN my life for the forseeable future as I have a son who wants to know his father and no doubt, will decide to contact him at some stage.

    This is not about me and him. This is about him and his son. The fact that you say he has 'no interest in me or my son' is irrelevant, because it's not about whether he has an interest in me. It's about his lack of interest in his son.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Elbi


    Just stop all contact with him, You have gotten this far without him. I definitely would NOT tell your son his father doesn not want him or show him the letter, that would be a terrible thing to do maybe when he is older and wants to know but now he is only a little boy and needs to feel loved not rejected,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thank you phutyle. I won't be writing ever again I can assure you of that.

    I appreciate that people say 'move on' with your life and I have. I have a great job, I bought a new house last year and great friends. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that I have not had a relationship since his dad as it makes me appear like I'm still interested in him.

    My son was ill for the first two years of his life and i spent most of my spare time at hospitals. He is great now thankfully but with work committments and having returned to college last year, I don't have the time for a social life, so there are genuine reasons why I have not had a relaionship in 6yrs. So short of a knight in shining armour knocking at my door any day soon, it just hasn't happend.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    There weren't notes AND letters.

    There were 2 lines in each note, which I sent following advice given by single parent support groups. I have witnessed many, many cases where a father has 'come round' when he saw a picture of his child and made contact. I HAVE moved on with my life but this is an issue that will unfortunately be IN my life for the forseeable future as I have a son who wants to know his father and no doubt, will decide to contact him at some stage.

    This is not about me and him. This is about him and his son. The fact that you say he has 'no interest in me or my son' is irrelevant, because it's not about whether he has an interest in me. It's about his lack of interest in his son.

    I wasn't trying to upset you, but this man has shown no interest in a relationship with your son from day one either. Now I don't understand it, or why any man would turn his back on his child regardless of the relationship with the mother, but if that is what he has decided then what else can anyone else say except leave it alone. You cannot force a person to be a parent. If your son wants to contact him in the future he may very well have a change of heart, but that will be up to your son and his father.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    It's terribly easy to say 'leave it alone' or 'move on'.

    But try telling that to a 6year old.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Mean_Mudda


    I wouldn't tell your son about his father's attitude & I'd stop sending him letters.
    I'd be very upset to get a such letter from him as you did.
    It's sad he has this attitude towards his own son, I suspect one day he will regret it.
    In the meantime enjoy your life and son which by the sounds of things you are already doing a good job of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's terribly easy to say 'leave it alone' or 'move on'.

    But try telling that to a 6year old.
    Whom has never known his father.

    Look, it wouldn't be the first time a boy grew up without knowing his father. In almost all of those cases, it was for the best. Those would be fathers are typically nothing but scum.

    If you want to give that boy a father then I wouldnt be afraid to move on with your life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭aoibhebree


    It's terribly easy to say 'leave it alone' or 'move on'.

    But try telling that to a 6year old.

    Does your son bring up the subject of his father with you, or do you bring it up?

    I'm just surprised a boy that age would be overly interested in a father who he's never known.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭LadyJ


    Your son is far, far better off grwing up without someone who thinks that way in his life. Keep the letter if you like but make sure it's in a very safe place until the time is right.

    Your son is lucky to have you in his life. Even with the love of 2 parents, kids don't turn out perfect. I grew up in a house with 3 women, I'm not perfect but I always knew that I had a lot of love and that was the most important thing.

    Rejection by a parent is not something that is going to be easy to deal with and you have a lot of questions ahead of you but a lot of children go through this and many come out the other side and become wonderful, successful, well-adjusted people. Much better than how they would have ended up with a destructive influence in their life.

    Maybe in the future things will change but, for now, forget about the guy. He's obviously not worth your tears.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    'I''m just surprised a boy that age would be overly interested in a father who he's never known'

    What a ridiculous thing to say! You are surprised that a 6yr old boy (almost 7) would ask about his dad when all his friends have a dad living with them, or at least are in contact with their dads? Its fathers day this sunday and in school they are doing fathers day cards -what do you think my 6yr old thinks of this? Because this idiot of a man has chosen not to take responsibility for him, he will be making a card that says 'To someone who has been like a father to me'. Do you think he doesn't KNOW he has a father who has rejected him??? Do you think he doesn't KNOW that everyone HAS a father and that his has chosen to ignore him. For gods sake, his first words were 'da-da'...there are 'dads' all around him. Why wouldn't he be interested in a father he has never seen??

    You are all right of course. I realised long, long ago that my son is a much better person for not knowing this man. I know I have done a good job without his input and (hopefully) will continue to raise this little boy to be the best man that he can be.

    But I am still astounded that any human being could commit those thoughts to paper, whether it's about my son or any child. I was really looking for advice about whether to burn the letter (on a bonfire) or to keep it in a safe place away from my son just in case I may need it at some point in his future????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭Plek Trum


    Keep the letter and all correspondance somewhere safe.

    When you son becomes a teenager and hormones kick in there is a chance he might rebel slightly (as all of them do!) If he tries the 'my father has nothing to do with me, who's fault is it'? line, you can at least reassure hin that you tried avery single avenue open to you and this was the response you got. Not in a negative way, but in a gentle and reassuring way that he will know you put him first and foremost always.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thank you Plek Trum (love the name!) - that makes perfect sense. I hope I NEVER have to show it to him but I am under no illusion, that as he gets older I may become the baddy and his dad could become a hero in his mind...none of us knows whats around the corner I guess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Thank you Plek Trum (love the name!) - that makes perfect sense. I hope I NEVER have to show it to him but I am under no illusion, that as he gets older I may become the baddy and his dad could become a hero in his mind...none of us knows whats around the corner I guess.


    Jesus, burn it. Don't ever show your son that. No child needs to read that letter, it wasn't to him it was to you. Your son will love you no matter what. And even if he does make some kind of relationship with his father no kid ever needs to read his father didn't want him at some point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭LINDA08


    In theory, this should be on the parenting board, but it's about a man who will not be a parent and how I deal with it so I think it's more of a personal issue, but mods, feel free to move it if it's in the wrong place.

    Won't bore any of you with details but am a single mum to 6yr old boy. His father, after a 2yr relationship, decided he didn't want a child and left me. I've raised my little fella alone and have not had a relationship since his dad and I split. I have been to court with his dad and receive a (paltry) amount of maintenance.

    I got involved with some single parent support groups early-on and found them fantastic - sometimes I think I coudln't have gotten this far without them. Their advice to me, down the years has been to try to 'build a bridge' or 'keep the door open' for his dad to come back into his life so every christmas and on my sons birthay, I wrote his dad a note saying heres a recent photo and our address, should you decide to contact him. He's never replied. Until last week.

    Last week I received a letter from him. It stated 'You made a choice that you had no right to make when you had that child. Irish law insists that I must pay for your choice. I do not now and I will not ever want a relationship with your son. Stop writing to me.' It was accompanied by a solicitors letter which stated all of the above, in legal terms.

    My 'choice' as he so kindly put it, is my (our) 6 year old son. Needless to say, I cried for a long time. My letter to him recently (on my sons 6th birthday) stated the usual but I also asked for an increase in maintenance, which I'm guessing is why I got the above reaction.

    So what to do now?

    Do I go back to court? Do I burn the letter and forget about him? Do I keep the letter so that my son is aware of his fathers appalling attitude towards him?

    There's a part of me that wants to stick those posters up around the town, with his photo on, just so everyone in our village will know what a horrible man he is but I won't let myself down by doing that.

    Please keep in mind that there has been no contact between us for 6 and a half years so any animosity he has had towards me in the past, should be long gone at this stage. But it obviously has not. And please don't say that I'm only giving my side of the story, because of course I am, because I'm the one looking for advice. The facts are that we have had no contact (except for court ordered maintenance) since I was pregnant which was over 6yrs ago now. He gets two notes per year from me. Thats it.

    OP I could have written the very same myself almost word for word so as bad as it seems take heart in that someone else has gone through it too as I am sure lots more mothers and fathers have.

    I'm sure to have received that letter must have hurt you more than words can say I too have received similar but by text and I used to read and re-read them trying to work out how someone could feel so negatively about an innocent child who is there flesh and blood.

    My personal thoughts would be to destroy the letter, you will find yourself reading and re-reading it over and over again, each time it will only build up anger within you and impact on you as a person which in turn despite your best efforts will impact on your relationship with your son, (meaning having bad mood days etc) ifkwim. I couldn't imagine ever showing my son a letter like that irrespective of how bad our relationship could be in the future even if he was a grown adult and I can see no real benefit to holding onto it.

    I would agree with the others, do not send him any further correspondence I stopped around fathers day last year sending cards on behalf of my son, if I was to be honest I was hoping everytime I sent it that once he sees a picture of his son his heart would melt but unfortunately I think it only annoyed him more and I felt the backlash, it always backfired.

    I've decided I'm not going to try force a relationship between my son and his dad it is not possible when one person is not open to it, it will be up to my son and his dad to make their relationship work when my son is old enough to make his own decisions about wanting to contact him or not, all I can do is be the best mother/ parent I can with the circumstances I have found myself in and bring my son up to have respect for himself and the people he meets through his life and hope that he will never feel that he missed out on anything being brought up by his mother only.

    I know it's a cliche (sp) but it really is his loss, best of luck with the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ClioC


    My advice to you is to reply to him via the solicitor one final time stating that as he has requested you to stop contact you are doing so at HIS request.
    Specify your contact details and say you are leaving the avenue of contact open should he reconsider in the future.
    Every year continue as you have been doing with a photo for each christmas and birthday only not posting them - keep these together with THAT letter in a safe place - possibly your parents house i.e where your son wont come across them accidently?? Then should the need arise in the future you have it all there!
    And remember that you are the reason your son has and will continue turn into the type of man you can be proud of ! You truly are inspirational and should be proud of yourself - no one can take away from you that you have tried and will (no doubt) continue to put your son first


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Plek Trum wrote:

    "Keep the letter and all correspondance somewhere safe."

    +1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭TheInquisitor



    You made a choice that you had no right to make when you had that child.

    May i ask what he means by this before i offer advise?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭SuperTyper


    I would never ever show your son the letter he sent. It would break his heart, no matter what age, to be rejected by his father like that, in black and white. Leave the bloke to his own devices now, if he doesn't want anything to do with your son, its his loss and his choice. My son is nearly a teenager and his father rarely bothers to see him, once a year. Even though he has another son now who he takes every Saturday night. Its heartbreaking but my son has never missed out, I've made sure of that and he never asks to go see his dad, he never speaks about him and he is a great natured kid, does really well in school and has great mates and a great family. Sometimes thats all they need. Move on, put it to the back of your mind and concentrate on your and your son and I wish you all the best.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    To play devils advocate, did you both discuss having children or the options available when you found out you were pregnant?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    May i ask what he means by this before i offer advise?

    I'm assuming he means that when she got pregnant he wanted an abortion and she didn't and continued with the pregnancy.
    To play devils advocate, did you both discuss having children or the options available when you found out you were pregnant?

    Does that really matter now? There's always going to be an argument over "oh well he didn't want to the child in the first place, so why should he have anything to do with it now?". At the end of the day, this man is a father and he does not want to know his son. The OP is probably devastated for her son that he will never know him.

    OP, my advice is get rid of it. If your son wants to find his Dad when he is older, don't stop him, help him. If this man reacts the same way as he is now at least your son would have heard it straight from the horses mouth and not from you (he could possible think you are trying to spread lies about his Dad).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Don't ever show that letter to him, it would completely destroy him.

    My son's father has nothing to do with him. He wrote a similar letter years ago which i burned. I didn't want it as i kept re-reading it cos it's hard when someone you love and someone you planned a baby with turns around and rejects both of you.

    We have moved on, my son has always asked about his father and when he was younger i will admit i used to say he was busy working and lots of other excuses but as he got older he could see for himself that he just wasn't interested.

    He still misses him, always insists that he doesn't, but all you can tell him is that you love him and remind him all of the other people who love him.

    It is tough, i still hope that at some point my son has a relationship with his father, the rejection of a parent must be the toughest thing to go through in life.

    Love your son like you do and just carry on doing what you are doing , and answer all the questions as honestly as you can, just don't ever badmouth his father as he is still that to him, regardless of whether he sees him or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭SarahMc


    I'm in the burn the letter camp. So your son will become an angry hormone ridden teenager who thinks you are the baddy - you will show him the letter 'you think I'm the baddy - look what a sh1t your daddy is'. I think your son will work that one out without seeing that letter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    For gods sake, his first words were 'da-da'...
    As someone enjoying hearing those words at the moment - take comfort in the fact that 'da-da-da-da-da' tends to be most baby's first words as 'da' is apparently the easiest sylable to pronounce... even 'mama' gets pronounced 'dada' for the first while ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Caryatnid


    Stop sending him the notes and letters. He has made it clear he has no interest in either you or your son.
    I disagree with this. I think the way the OP is sending a note with picture twice a year shows her maturity and means she is always in the 'good camp' as I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that one day a father would like to meet his child and this way he always knows the address and how to contact his son.
    Maybe just send the note at Christmas, but I think it was really mature of the OP doing this, and a great idea, the father can never turn around and say that he didn't know how to contact his son.

    Also OP, I do agree with the general sentiment of never showing your son the letter. However, I wouldn't burn it. Keep it in a safe place, even if you have to give it to someone close to mind so that you don't keep reading it. You might like to use it as evidence in court. This guy seems like a bit of a psycho, I'm thinking maybe he could decide not to pay maintenence on the pretence you won't let him see the child - this letter could be used as evidence to show the truth.

    I wonder what kind of solicitor he found to do this.

    I can imagine how you feel like putting posters all around the village. If you live in a small community, you could more or less do this anyway by word of mouth. However if it gets out (particularly if you put signs up) then your son will find out about it, and this isn't good if you don't ever want to show him the letter.

    I'm so sorry that you have someone so horrible in your life like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    You are a really good person to encourage the Dad to have contact and access.

    I wish you and your son the best.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thank you all for your advice.

    To answer a few questions...

    No, we didn't discuss the possibility of children at any point - it was assumed we'd stay together (on my part anyhow) and assumed that kids would be in the mix. However, my son wasn't planned.

    When I got pregnant, we didn't discuss our options so to speak. I got pregnant and we were both very shocked but both in our mid 30's and thought hey, this might not be such a bad idea after all. For about 2 weeks, all was well - we were talking about me moving in with him (I was renting, he had his own home) and turning the back room into a nursery. He went to work one day, came home and said 'I've changed my mind, I don't want a child'. We argued for about 2 days. He suggested abortion once but it wasn't an option for me and he didn't bring it up again. I was 9 weeks pregnant at that point. The next time I saw him was when my son was for months and I had brought him to court for our first (of three) maintenance hearings.

    I did discuss this with a solicitor yesterday evening as I was hoping to get back to court and ask for an increase in maintenance (I get €40pw). My solicitor said that a judge would 'hang him' (his words) if he saw that letter. Judges don't look favourably on men who don't accept responsibility for their children. Particularly men who have the stupidity to write it down.

    I've given the letter to my solicitor because you're right, I had been reading and re-reading and thinking 'What the f..????'. So my solicitor has it now and I will never ever show it to my son. Never.

    I've also started to be a bit more honest with my son. Up to this point, I'd been saying that his dad just wasn't ready to be a dad and maybe some day he would. He asked over the weekend about his dad ('What age will I be when I can meet my dad mam?') and I said "Unfortunately, your dad is not a very nice man buster...there are nice men and not so nice men and your dad is one of the not so nice men. I can't answer your question darlin' butguess how much I love you????? Quick change of subject kinda did the trick....This is the first time I've EVER said anything bad about his dad to him....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭994


    phutyle wrote: »
    Of course you had the right to have your child, and he's not paying for your choice, but for his legal responsibility as the biological father of the child. He seems to have a very skewed view of rights and responsibilities.

    it might not be a popular view, but remember that you were never obliged to raise the child - you could have aborted, or left it up for adoption, and you would not have any legal obligations to him. But the father is forced by law to be "responsible", even though if he wanted to be a father and you didn't want him to know his child, it would be very easy to keep him away. That's also a "very skewed view of rights and responsibilities".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Not the point completely.

    Why oh why whenever there is a thread on these boards about 'deadbeat dads' (I love that americanism) does somebody always refer back to 'your choice to have the child...you were never obliged to raise the child' etc etc.

    That's just BS.

    If I was 6 weeks pregnant NOW then yes, that's a valid point.

    But this is a 6yr old boy we are talking about. He is 6. He is in Senior Infants. He plays football on saturdays. He loves swimming. He wants to be on X factor when he's 16 :-).

    LIVING IN THE PAST and constantly refering to my choice to abort or adopt, are the excuses used by his dad for not taking responsibility for the fact that he is actually HERE!!


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