Ireland/England Cricket World Cup...

Cremated

I dont know too much about Cricket, just I wanted to try ask something out there to all of you,

with England now out of the World Cup and Ireland,

and with Eoin Morgan warming the English bench quite a bit, do you think if Eoin had stayed, and opened our batting, or just been in our batting could we have got past Sri Lanka with those extra 9 runs,

and got passed Pakistan possibly?,

does Ed Joyce still get to play for England, or how long would it take for him to get back into the Irish set up?,

and Is Eoin gone from Ireland at all levels for four years?,

it's all if and maybe's but I just thought I'd throw it out there to talk about,

either way I'm happy that he has got the chance to play Test Cricket now, let's hope they make use of him properly ...

D3PO

Morgan is gone for 4 years yes. given his age i suggest he will get back into the england team so he will be gone for much longer at least tbh

joyce can play again in approx 2 years.

had we got morgan and joyce we possible could have got past one or both of pakistan and or sri lanka but its all conjecture maybe they both would have gone for ducks who knows

HonalD

D3PO wrote: »

had we got morgan and joyce we possible could have got past one or both of pakistan and or sri lanka but its all conjecture maybe they both would have gone for ducks who knows

I'm not a fan of "Morgan and Joyce" are our best players - their records are impressive and yes they both helped us tremendously to qualify for the 2 World Cups but I feel it is a little more than disrespectful to the current squad.

Also, NO'B is a great wicket keeper but Wilson is very good too. Maybe some views?

Cremated

I didn't mean to imply anything bad about the team,

just wanted to see peoples views on this, We got so close to the Sri Lankans and didn't do too bad against the other teams, I'm very proud of what we have done...

d'Oracle

HonalD wrote: »

I'm not a fan of "Morgan and Joyce" are our best players - their records are impressive and yes they both helped us tremendously to qualify for the 2 World Cups but I feel it is a little more than disrespectful to the current squad.

Also, NO'B is a great wicket keeper but Wilson is very good too. Maybe some views?

There was a slight problem in the batting dept yesterday.
A line up of Porterfield, Joyce, Morgan, Stirling, O'Brien, O'Brien .... sure its conjecture, but you would have to be more confident in that.

Plus, Morgan is a smashing player of spin. Which could have made a big impact against Afridi & Ajmal when they came on.

It is a bit rough on the boys to talk that way, but there is a reason for that talk. They were both standout figures.

My big worry now, is that England might poach Niall. He has been one of the top keepers in the tournament. And Englands crop of keepers (in most sports:D) aren't great.

Dozen Wicked Words

d'Oracle wrote: »

My big worry now, is that England might poach Niall. He has been one of the top keepers in the tournament. And Englands crop of keepers (in most sports:D) aren't great.

Bitterness disclaimer: The following is written by a long suffering NCCC supporter.

I don't think Niall will be picked by England. Not because of his talent or otherwise, but because of the county he plays for. Northants have never been a fashionable county for the selectors to look at.

Monty apart (who has now shot his bolt I think), most players have to move away from Northampton to have any chance of England call-up. Swann a prime example, Mal Loye moved in the hope of an England call up and got the same VERY soon after his move to Lancs. The pundits derided David Sales lack of ambition to play for England, the reason? He chose to stay at Northants.

O'Brien would probably be behind Prior,Ambrose,Foster,Mustard,Davies and probably a couple of others. Not because of talent, just a slightly blinkered approach Englands cricketing establishment tend to take.

I hope I am right anyway, O'Brien being picked once or twice for England then discarded would be a big waste to world cricket. Northamptonshire cricket followers are proud that the best keeper in the competition plays for them.

Tweeter

That 4 year rule is a joke I'm afraid. Both Ed and Eoin didn't have to wait 4 years from their last Ireland appearance to play for England, so I don't understand why this has to be the case in reverse.

Ed's clearly finished his short England career, without ever getting a test appearance, so there was nothing he got to do with England that we couldn't have offered him (hindsight being great n all).

I just hope Eoin gets to play some test cricket, otherwise we'd have another waste.

To sum up, if you can play for Ireland one week and then play for England the following week which is perfectly legal and what in fact happened with Eoin Morgan, then why should you have to wait 4 years to continue with this pattern in reverse?

Anyone agree?

d'Oracle

Tweeter wrote: »

Ed's clearly finished his short England career, without ever getting a test appearance, so there was nothing he got to do with England that we couldn't have offered him (hindsight being great n all).

I just hope Eoin gets to play some test cricket, otherwise we'd have another waste.

To sum up, if you can play for Ireland one week and then play for England the following week which is perfectly legal and what in fact happened with Eoin Morgan, then why should you have to wait 4 years to continue with this pattern in reverse?

Anyone agree?

Not necessarily. He has moved away from Middlesex to improve his chances of getting 1st class cricket and its not that long since he played with the England Lions (I think). Although you are right in that he has gained absolutly nothing at all from declaring.

I too hope Morgan gets test cricket, now that he is gone, but if he couldn't get into the T20 squad, even after being one of the form batsmen of last years County T20, what hope does he realistically have?

Finally the rule is there. (cynic)Its probably there to allow England to take players from associate members (/cynic)
Its probably to allow associate national players to have a stretch at test cricket if they are good enough,
Problem is the Ireland situation pushes the envelope on this rule.
England don't give a hoot. They will keep taking players from us as long as they are allowed. They actually think they are helping cricket in Ireland.

It wouldn't surprise me if Bangladesh being so poor and Kenya dropping off dramatically has led the ICC to be cautious about giving us test status.
Which is the only hope we have.

Cremated

Is there any chance of this rule being changed?, how long has it be in use?...

dereko1969

i couldn't believe neither morgan nor napier (who didn't even get a look-in despite being top scorer in english 20/20 comp last year) got to play after the abject england batting display against south africa, their selection policy seems to have been very odd indeed, picking key and napier but not playing them etc

one thing i couldn't understand was their use of 'subs' i can't fathom how subs are allowed in 20/20 it's not that long a game that you'd need a 'comfort' break and morgan took 2 catches for them against pakistan as a sub fielder, taking the pish if you ask me.

to get back to the OP i think if we'd had morgan we'd have had a good shout at winning one of the super 8 games, i think he has way more experience of using the power-play which is an area we (and england) fell down in, not sure that phil simmons knows his best team, i think stirling should have been given an opportunity earlier.

for all the talk in england of foster being in the team purely on his ability to stand-up to the faster bowlers niall o'brien showed him up as he was the best keeper in the comp by a mile.

rednik

It just shows you what a big decision it is for these lads to make. All they have to do is look at the players who have been thrown by the wayside by England over the years. Some players don't get many innings in all formats to prove themselves. They knew when opting to play for England the chances were they would be in international limbo unless they suceeded almost immediately.

Royale with Cheese

Well at least if Morgan's England career goes tits up after a couple of games, it'll make any future Irish players think long and hard before making the switch to England.

I'd love to see something like being able to represent Ireland at T20 or ODI level, and England at test level. Never see it happening though. At the very least the 4 year rule should be looked at.

I don't think you can say Morgan and Joyce would have been the difference between winning and losing, but they certainly would have helped.

d'Oracle

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Well at least if Morgan's England career goes tits up after a couple of games, it'll make any future Irish players think long and hard before making the switch to England.

Problem is, if you are as driven as you need to be, to get as good as Morgan or Joyce (at his best) you need a certain amount of belief.

Top performers usually believe that they are good enough. So the next Morgan (Stirling?) will probably believe that he is good enough to play for England and will jump at the chance.

In response to Derek on Morgan and Napier, you are dead right. IMO the sub should have been Colly. The man is a world class fielder, a mediocre med. pacer who wont be needed to bowl and a dabber (next to useless in T20). Plus he didn't even want captaincy. Bring him on as a sub Fielder FFS.

Dozen Wicked Words

Napier has an average of 17.78. His reputation is staked on a massive innings that was televised and a couple of other good home performances (at Chelmsford with tiny boundaries) LAST YEAR.

The clamour for him is media led. Domestic average of less than 18 is not impressive in the slightest.

England were poor but a player who has not been on form this year in 20/20 would not improve them. I would rather have seen Morgan or Key in front of Napier.

Colly was poor, but how many teams drop a captain midway through a tournament? None is my guess.

d'Oracle

dooferoaks wrote: »

Napier has an average of 17.78. His reputation is staked on a massive innings that was televised and a couple of other good home performances (at Chelmsford with tiny boundaries) LAST YEAR.

The clamour for him is media led. Domestic average of less than 18 is not impressive in the slightest.

England were poor but a player who has not been on form this year in 20/20 would not improve them. I would rather have seen Morgan or Key in front of Napier.

Colly was poor, but how many teams drop a captain midway through a tournament? None is my guess.

Fair point.
Morgan I can see. Key isn't as good a keeper as Foster and I'd be reluctant to put him ahead of Bopara or Wright (who did well)

My point was that Colly probably shouldnt have been captain.
But ECB/England Team wouldn't be much if they stopped being silly.