Pacquiao Vs Cotto, November 14th according to Boxrec...

joker77

Linky

Seems this fight is looking like it's going to happen, Bob Arum wants the fight and it seems Pacquiao is avoiding Mosley for now.

walshb

Looks good and a great bout IMO. One thing you have to say about Pac, he doesn't
shy away from a real fight. He's barely a JWW and he's willing to meet
Cotto. Floyd, this is a man you should be trying to emulate!

Cotto is a tough and hard and big opponent for Pac and is a favorite to beat him
I would say!

joker77

walshb wrote: »

Looks good and a great bout IMO. One thing you have to say about Pac, he doesn't
shy away from a real fight. He's barely a JWW and he's willing to meet
Cotto. Floyd, this is a man you should be trying to emulate!

Cotto is a tough and hard and big opponent for Pac and is a favorite to beat him
I would say!

I haven't seen the Clottey fight yet, but by all accounts he was robbed. I think Pac could go into this as a slight favourite.

duagre

walshb wrote: »

Looks good and a great bout IMO. One thing you have to say about Pac, he doesn't
shy away from a real fight. He's barely a JWW and he's willing to meet
Cotto. Floyd, this is a man you should be trying to emulate!

Cotto is a tough and hard and big opponent for Pac and is a favorite to beat him
I would say!

there really isnt that much of a difference in the size of their frames to be honest. and this fight will probably be at 140 because the pacquiao camp wont take it at 147 where cotto is comfortable

joepenguin

doesnt cotto put on a lot between the weigh in and the fight though and only moved up from 140 as he found it too hard to make?

Maybe a catch weight would out pacqiauo in a strong position. A win over Cotto would be his finest in a while if he could pull it off.

How does Cotto fair against southpaws?

akindoc

Easy fight to call this.

First of all, it's NOT going to be at 147. The weight is going to be crucial. I expect it to be around 144-145, which will really limit Cottos chances.

I don't like Cotto in this fight, no matter what the weight is. I think he is simply not fast enough to be able to deal with Pacman. He's got a big hole in his defence, and Pacmans straight left will find him repeatedly. The right hand will cause big problems for Cotto too.

The BLUEPRINT for beating Pacman was laid out by Marquez. It involves leading with lead right hands and pushing Pacman back. Morales did the same thing.

COTTO IS LEFT HANDED... Just like Oscar. Hatton is also more damaging with the left hook and relies on that punch more than the right. Without a good straight right hand, Pacman will destroy you.

I expect Pacman to take Cotto out within 5 rounds. I think he'll hurt Cotto whenever he lands and the speed will be a factor. Cotto has a chance here, due to his incredible heart and boxing skills, however I think he has proven that he is simply not as good a technician as he was touted to be when he was a prospect.

All in all, I think Pac will be too fast, too rangy, and will be the puncher in the fight. Cotto is going to have a hard time finding Pacman and he is going to be walking onto punches when he is on the hunt. He'll be getting planted by punches when Pacman has him going. Pac won't make the mistakes that Judah/Corley and Torres made. When he has Cotto hurt, he'll finish the job.

joker77

akindoc wrote: »

Easy fight to call this.

First of all, it's NOT going to be at 147. The weight is going to be crucial. I expect it to be around 144-145, which will really limit Cottos chances.

I don't like Cotto in this fight, no matter what the weight is. I think he is simply not fast enough to be able to deal with Pacman. He's got a big hole in his defence, and Pacmans straight left will find him repeatedly. The right hand will cause big problems for Cotto too.

The BLUEPRINT for beating Pacman was laid out by Marquez. It involves leading with lead right hands and pushing Pacman back. Morales did the same thing.

COTTO IS LEFT HANDED... Just like Oscar. Hatton is also more damaging with the left hook and relies on that punch more than the right. Without a good straight right hand, Pacman will destroy you.

I expect Pacman to take Cotto out within 5 rounds. I think he'll hurt Cotto whenever he lands and the speed will be a factor. Cotto has a chance here, due to his incredible heart and boxing skills, however I think he has proven that he is simply not as good a technician as he was touted to be when he was a prospect.

All in all, I think Pac will be too fast, too rangy, and will be the puncher in the fight. Cotto is going to have a hard time finding Pacman and he is going to be walking onto punches when he is on the hunt. He'll be getting planted by punches when Pacman has him going. Pac won't make the mistakes that Judah/Corley and Torres made. When he has Cotto hurt, he'll finish the job.

I agree with what you're saying here, but if the fight is NOT at 147 as you say, I'll be let down. It's over 3 years since Cotto moved up in weight, he's the current WBO welterweight title holder, and I think that's the weight he should be fighting at and also the weight Pacquiao should be looking to fight Cotto at.

T-K-O

Forget the Cotto V Clottey fight in reference to the Pac bout. Cotto was in survival mode after the cut and fought a great fight and deserved the W.

Anyway, I don't think this fight will be far from 147 - Cotto cant make 140 and he aint going to risk it, why would he ? Cotto is the man at 147.

This is a real test for Manny, will his power carry to welter ? Hatton and Dela were shot. Oscar had led in his boots and Ricky cant take a punch these days. Lucky for Cotto he does not have such problems.

Cotto is left handed but doesnt always fight that way. It's amazing to to hear some guys saying that PAC will KO him within 5... what is that based on ?

akindoc

T-K-O wrote: »

Forget the Cotto V Clottey fight in reference to the Pac bout. Cotto was in survival mode after the cut and fought a great fight and deserved the W.

Anyway, I don't think this fight will be far from 147 - Cotto cant make 140 and he aint going to risk it, why would he ? Cotto is the man at 147.

This is a real test for Manny, will his power carry to welter ? Hatton and Dela were shot. Oscar had led in his boots and Ricky cant take a punch these days. Lucky for Cotto he does not have such problems.

Cotto is left handed but doesnt always fight that way. It's amazing to to hear some guys saying that PAC will KO him within 5... what is that based on ?

Pacman has the power. It's alright to say DLH was shot and Hatton can't take a punch these days, in hindsight. Fact is, Pacquaios power was too much for either of them. Do you think Mayweather could KO Hatton in that fashion? Do you think Cotto could? Lets not question Pacmans power here. He was hurting Hatton and DLH every time he touched them.

How many times has Cotto been hurt now? A catalog of times. He has heart but he has to set his feet before he throws punches and this is going to be a major disadvantage against Pacman. He's going to get pounded with hard lefts and rights and I can't see Cotto withstanding the barrage.

I like Pacman BIG in this fight.

T-K-O

Yes he was visibly hurting a weight drained Oscar with jabs and he brutally KO'ed Hatton but Cotto is an entirely different proposition. Sure Cotto has been hurt but never stopped.

I'm not denying that the Pacman has power in those mitts - I'm questioning the force of that power against a legit top of his game WW.

I would not be surprised at all if PAC won this fight the guy is that good but there is nothing to say this will be an easy KO for him.

joker77

Cotto is by no means big for a welter - and from looking at the stats he's only half an inch taller than Pacquiao, so I don't think there would be too much of a size difference (in terms of weight) come fight night, seeing as it's months away. Pacquiao has packed on the muscle well over the last few years.

walshb

akindoc wrote: »

Pacman has the power. It's alright to say DLH was shot and Hatton can't take a punch these days, in hindsight. Fact is, Pacquaios power was too much for either of them. Do you think Mayweather could KO Hatton in that fashion? Do you think Cotto could? Lets not question Pacmans power here. He was hurting Hatton and DLH every time he touched them.

How many times has Cotto been hurt now? A catalog of times. He has heart but he has to set his feet before he throws punches and this is going to be a major disadvantage against Pacman. He's going to get pounded with hard lefts and rights and I can't see Cotto withstanding the barrage.

I like Pacman BIG in this fight.

Jeez, anyone will KO Hatton at this stage and the KO itself was pretty good, but it was
accentuated by Hatton's lack of defence and skill. Oscar was simply a shell and had zero to offer. I didn't see many power shots there. I saw clean and accurate shots, but Pacman didn't go hell for leather with Oscar.

Pac is a good hitter, but is he the 1401-147 lb hitter? That remains to be seen, and if he
can take Cotto out and Mosley, I will salute that he is. I cannot say that beating Hatton
and Oscar after what they showed, was an example of Pac's 140-147 lb power.

This bout has to be at 147 lbs. Cotto is far past a 140 lb fighter.

If Pacman wants to play with the welters, then he and his camp should expect to be met by welters, not watered down versions. Welter is up to 147 lbs, not up to 144 or 145 or 146. Dropping three to four lbs can be so so difficult and can have a massive effect on a fighter who is at peak, 147 lbs. He is then asked to get to 144 or 145, this is a big ask in the world of fine precision weight making!

cowzerp

Cotto is more powerful looking than he actually is, i can actually see pacman doing the same job he done on de la hoya here tbh..

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Cotto is more powerful looking than he actually is, i can actually see pacman doing the same job he done on de la hoya here tbh..

Then you have to assume that Cotto will be as atrocious as Oscar was. And Oscar was
atrocious. Pacman himself was utterly surprised.

Cotto is beatable and Pac is the man with the speed and movement
and versatility to do it. But, will he be able to man handle Cotto? Strength may play a part here and Cotto is a bigger guy from my looking!

I do feel that no matter what transpires, Pac is in for a sterner test than what he faced vs.
Hatton and Oscar. A much sterner test and a test I am looking forward to!

cowzerp

I think your been unfair on manny, as far as im concerned he made the 2 look bad due to his speed and power, they may have been hit fast or hard but not a combo of speed and power that manny brings, im also not bigging them up but manny was outstanding in both fights, was it down to the opponent? speculation!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

I think your been unfair on manny, as far as im concerned he made the 2 look bad due to his speed and power, they may have been hit fast or hard but not a combo of speed and power that manny brings, im also not bigging them up but manny was outstanding in both fights, was it down to the opponent? speculation!

I am not being unfair to Manny at all. I rate the guy very highly. What I saw with my eyes was an Oscar who was extremely poor. Manny himself was surprised. Oscar couldn't even block a lead left hand. He was repeatedly hit in the face, his timing and footwork were so bad. Compare that to the man who fought
Tito and Shane and JCC. It was a completely different fighter.
The Forbes fight was a bad showing too!

Now, Hatton was simply useless. He had no defence at all and Roach knew this before the bout started. I will leave the Hatton bout alone.

The Oscar fight saw Manny destroy a fighter who was so inept, it was embarrassing!

Cotto is a man who will surely provide a sterner test. He can't be any worse that what Hatton and Oscar were.

Seriously Paul, what did you make of Oscar's actual performance vs. Manny. What did
you see?

Marko_Man

Cotto was lucky last weekend, I didnt think he won the fight

! Hitman

cowzerp wrote: »

Cotto is more powerful looking than he actually is, i can actually see pacman doing the same job he done on de la hoya here tbh..

yeah, thats right ..

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Seriously Paul, what did you make of Oscar's actual performance vs. Manny. What did
you see?

I think thats where we're differing, i put it down to the sheer speed and sharpness of manny and your putting it down to the slowness of Oscar, oscar looked like a shell but i still majorly put that down to how good manny was. im not trying to say oscar was anywhere near peak, just that manny was awsome.

akindoc

It's hard to know how good Pacman is.

He could go out there and make Cotto look like an absolute mug. He's got the style to do it.

Strength won't come into it. Pacman doesn't need to fight inside with the footwork he has. He glides around the ring (throwing powerful punches on front or back foot) and is impossible to pin down, without taking punches yourself.

Even the great JMM couldn't prevent himself from getting caught.

Cotto will be an easy target for Pacman and with Pacs PROVEN power now at 140 and 147, I think Cotto may find himself in a horizontal position very quickly.

walshb

Manny did what he had to; I am not doubting that, but when the opponent is so so poor, it's hard to know how good or impressive Manny really is. The example whereby Oscar could not figure out how to block a lead left or how to judge his appalling distancing was all down to Oscar, not Manny


His inability to let shots go, balance and all around generalship were the worst I have ever seen from a so called great fighter. Manny took it easy on him out of pure pity I felt.

Honestly, I hate to say it, but that performance Oscar put on was the pits!

Manny was sharp and fast, but coupled with Oscar having nothing to offer, this
sharpness and skill and speed were accentuated. That's all I am saying!

Let's see Manny in against a live opponent at 140-147. Live and decent.
A Cotto, Clottey, Mosley type fighter. A fighter with something to offer.

akindoc, Proven POWER? I still want to see this against a fighter with
something to offer. I'll be happy to applaud it then!

BTW, p4p, Manny is a tremendous fighter. That is not in question.

147 lbs? The jury is still out as far as I am concerned!

joepenguin

Re: Manny vs Oscar - Manny is awesome, we knew that, Oscar was faded, and in fairness after his awful performance against the smaller Forbes we should have known that too. For whatever reason be it age, weight etc Oscar just wasnt the oscar we knew that night. I believe it was the same oscar that went into the ring against Forbes but Manny being Manny he got the job done in embarrasingly one sided fashion.

Re: Manny at 147, Im gonna say the jury is out as well. If we put in an oscar from the late 90s when he was properly a welter Manny wouldnt have had an easy night. It would have been seriously competitive. A potential classic.

Pac-Cotto is a great fight. I lean in favour of Pacquiao if its at 144/145.
People are putting Cotto down after the Clottey fight but alot of that was down to his eye. At 147 he is a serious threat and eat all Margarito could throw for 11 and a half rounds and was winning the fight.