DAB dead or actually about to take off ?

coolwings

I've seen several comments that DAB has not received the broadcaster's support it will take to become viable, effectively writing it off as a medium to buy into.
I suppose internet radio supplies a lot of what DAB can do, especially at the basic listen to the radio end of things.

But when looking around at a replacement radio and the various features I came across this:
http://www.pure.com/products/product.asp?Product=VL-60954&Category=

This is basically Sky+ digi for radio.

Seems to me that instant pause and playback, record to an SD card, and preset recordings on a program by program basis 1 week ahead is a really good reason to buy my first DAB radio.

And when those key features begin to cascade down the line into lower cost radios I reckon a lot of users will think the same. Hey, not so long after ... critical mass for targeted advertising revenues and DAB jumps into the big boys race.

So now I'm planning to get a Pure EVOKE-3 next week.

watty

Well there is poor RTE coverage. Rte not likely to resume rollout, nor is any widespread adoption by other stations likely.

It's a dead obsolete tech that is failing in UK and closed in one country.

For living room supplanted by Satellite.

DRM will be system of choice on LW & MW and DRM+ or DVB-t or DVB-h or DVB-sh on VHF. But there is no plans at all for any VHF-FM turnoff as there are for TV and no advantage to doing so.

The costs of DAB will not get much lower nor more portable. It uses MP2, so for same bitrate MP3 is better and DRM/DRM+ or DVB-xx AAC is much better (or much lower bit rate for slightly better).

This is actually a "kind" pro-DAB article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting

Finland shut down DAB
http://www.radiojackie.com/stuff/receptionadvice.html

I think closed in Germany too. UK & and Denmark the only significant markets.

Mike 1972

Im largely in agreement with Watty on this one (although DAB+ looks interesting in that it seems to address many of the deficencies of DAB however recievers are still a tad pricey)

that is failing in UK

I wouldnt quite go that far yet

DVB-t or DVB-h or DVB-sh on VHF

No DVB-T in the UK (actually think its rather wasteful having seperate DVB-H and DVB-T platforms but thats another story) DVB-T is all UHF in UK and in most areas (just about) comes in on a rooftop antenna. Portable reception poor/on existant in most places. (might improve after ASO) havent seen any portable audio recievers for DVB

watty

Various phones do either DVB-T (German market) or DVB-h or DMB (Asia) or MediaFlo and many FM. I don't know of any that do DAB. I even saw a demo of one doing IPW's TV/Radio system for the unpaired 5MHz 3G not used. I've seen and used a Nokia on demo in Amsterdam with DVB-h.

DVB-h can be stuck in a DVB-t signal. Its advantage is that it uses a number of TDM (time slots) so that the receiver chip power consumption is 1/10th of DVB-t and 1/40th of DAB! However I think nothing much is happening serious with any Mobile TV platform. Mobile TV over DAB is totally dead. (Any Mobile TV system can do mobile radio also).




However RTE has no money. So the Paltry DAB is what there is. It's essentially useless for car and at home satellite gives 70+ radio off 28.2E (BBC, ITV/Sky sat) or about 2000 radio stations altogether on a motorised dish (PC card records them. Use an iTrip if you want to hear them portable on FM radio or a streaming server on PC from sat card to a WiFi Gadget)

A DAB+ receiver is no good if BBC/RTE etc don't transmit it. People are using DRM already and not DAB+, so it has a catch22. The DAB users would most benefit, but almost no existing DAB radio supports it.

RTE are or were doing DRM tests.

I use FM + LW in car (and portable radio). WiFi on Archos & E65 phone to Internet and have a number of setbox and PC based sat receivers. I can get DAB from woodcock but since this has a fraction of the stations here that are on FM and isn't really portable?

UK problems (apart from fact that it's rubbish quality there compared to FM)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7238768.stm

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalradio/0,39029435,49295540,00.htm

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=696794

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/2008/10/channel_4_pulls_out_of_dab.php

The Cush

watty wrote: »

I think closed in Germany too. UK & and Denmark the only significant markets.

DAB in Germany has almost 85% coverage of the country with over 180 different radio stations available. Public service broadcasters ARD and Deutschlandradio plan to roll out a national multiplex next year, subject to financial approval, carrying 10-15 services. 2-3 regional/local PSB multiplexes will be/are available in the 16 states. Between 30 and 40 national, regional, local and commercial stations will be available throughout Germany by 2012. Both Band III and L Band are used. Analogue radio switchoff is planned for after 2015.

European countries with a regular service and 70%+ coverage include Belgium (100%), Denmark (90%), Germany (85%), Monaco (100%), Netherlands (70%), Norway (80%), Portugal (75%), Switzerland (90%), UK (85%).
Croatia, Spain, Sweden also have a regular service but with less coverage.
Italy has 75% coverage but is still in trial phase which is due to end soon followed by licence award.

watty

Coverage is not the same as Market.

You could have a 100% coverage and no-one use it.

Innteresting about Germany. Maybe the artical I read was garbled and transposed DAB and Analogue switch off in translation. However people in Germany use DVB-t on phones and not DAB.

The fact is that it is an imposed service with little use by public compared to FM.
The problems of quality, portability, robustness and power consumption need a change to a different Digital Radio system.

The Cush

Max coverage and station availability is essential, without it the general public and retailers (the market) will have no confidence in it.
When I drive from Limerick to Dublin I lose DAB reception on the way to Nenagh (digital cliff), add to that no Newstalk so I generally stay with FM.

In Germany alone there are 45 million radios in vehicles, drivers - a captive audience, will be using their radio not their mobile phones to listen. The industry has said “The digital radio industry sees the car sector as key to the successful uptake of digital radio in Europe and worldwide".

I believe if you build the network and make the services available the market will follow.

mike65

DAB is dead here. Well, still born would be a more accurate description

watty

The Cush wrote: »

Max coverage and station availability is essential, without it the general public and retailers (the market) will have no confidence in it.
When I drive from Limerick to Dublin I lose DAB reception on the way to Nenagh (digital cliff), add to that no Newstalk so I generally stay with FM.

In Germany alone there are 45 million radios in vehicles, drivers - a captive audience, will be using their radio not their mobile phones to listen. The industry has said “The digital radio industry sees the car sector as key to the successful uptake of digital radio in Europe and worldwide".

I believe if you build the network and make the services available the market will follow.

That Irish reception is not going to be fixed anytime soon.

I agree. The car is one of the most important sectors today for radio. But what % of the 45M Radios in Germany support DAB?

I've used a phone with Internet Radio in the car in Dublin and it was just as handy as built in radio.

Fuzzy Clam

DAB in Germany had a poor take up and will be relauncing with DAB+ next year. Same with Switzerland who have already (or in the process of) relaunched DAB+ with more success.

IF RTE were to continue it would need to be DAB+ and in the current climate, its unlikely.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

I agree. The car is one of the most important sectors today for radio. But what % of the 45M Radios in Germany support DAB?

Don't have a % number for that.
DAB radios are currently available as an option in over 50 German manufactured car models from brands such as Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Opel/Vauxhall and around 90 models including Ford, Jaguar, Seat, Toyota, and Volvo and is available as a standard option in models on sale in the UK and Norway (Golf, Passat).
Once Germany relaunches with a full national service next year multi-standard DAB radios will become a standard option.

Recently European broadcasters met with major car industry companies to discuss the future of digital radios for the automotive market. Broadcasters from France, Germany, Italy, the UK and Scandanavia confirmed their commitment to the DAB family of standards as the digital radio solution for their countries. France has also mandated that all radios sold from mid 2013 be digital enabled.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

DAB in Germany had a poor take up and will be relauncing with DAB+ next year.

IF RTE were to continue it would need to be DAB+ and in the current climate, its unlikely.

The national multiplex will launch with DAB+, the existing DAB services will continue but can move to DAB+/DMB at some stage in the future.

New car digital radios will be multi-standard (DAB/DAB+/DMB/FM-RDS) following agreement last year so the standard will be invisible to the end user.

watty

SO bottom line a Pure Evoke is not a good idea unless it does DAB+ and DRM.

Alba have a radio that records/plays SD card has Analogue and DAB and DRM.

I don't think it does DAB+ though. If I saw a radio with AM/FM/DAB/DRM and LW/MW/SW/VHF/L-Band and SD card slot and portable, I'd be tempted. If it was a car radio I'd make a Quick Release and shoulder pack with speaker & 12V battery (did this in 1977 for a Sanyo Car Radio/Cassette).


SO German DAB did fail and they are retrying with DAB+. Interesting!
Like Chalk & Cheese (dab and dab+).

DAB vs DAB+ is only invisible to users of DAB+ radios as DAB radios won't work at all on DAB+. It's hardly invisble either as DAB+ is so much superior!

Mike 1972

European countries with a regular service and 70%+ coverage include Belgium (100%)

OK I know Belgium has petty favorable terrain but 100% ??!?!?!?!??

UK (85%).

15% maybe

I have yet to come across anywhere in the UK with proper DAB reception

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Alba have a radio that records/plays SD card has Analogue and DAB and DRM.

I think the DRM there refers to the playing of protected music.

I won't hold out too much hope for DRM anyway. AFAIK The BBC have ceased their low power trial on MW in England and I haven't heard DRM on 252 in a long time.
From my point of view, theres nothing worth listening to anyway. Not thats there any shortage of DRM stations on SW, but Deutch Welle etc.ain't exactly riviting.
Until the manufacturers sort out the SNR problems with the radios and are able to sell them a LOT less than the current £200 or whatever, then DRM is sunk too.

Fuzzy Clam

Relaunch of DAB in Germany doubtful.

http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/

Digifriendly

Mike 1972 wrote: »

OK I know Belgium has petty favorable terrain but 100% ??!?!?!?!??



15% maybe

I have yet to come across anywhere in the UK with proper DAB reception

Yes, I can't even get Radio Ulster on DAB in the kitchen of house where I live and I am about 15 miles as crow flies from Divis transmitter!

ynotdu

I cannot understand why Ireland is being compared to other European countries when it comes to DAB.depending on your politics we have a population of apprx 5-7 million for broadcasters to profit from,it is crazy to compare unlike with like!


RTE are somewhere between 56 and 80 million in the red and yet trying to stagger on with DAB:(

here in Dublin we get 4 DAB channels on UPC(formerly NTL in my area)
none of them carry a programme by programme epg guide.Thats ok for RTE2XM/RTE Pulse but ridiculous for RTE juniour and RTE choice(an all talk channel,yeah like anybody would sit around waiting to see what chat show was next)They should be closed!

also if i was to bet on it DTT will proably be put on a very long finger as Social welfare recipeants would need a grant towards a set top box(well pensioners at least)

I think under an EU directive we are supposed to be fully Analog deprived by a certain date but blood cannot be got from a stone!

watty

No DAB on UPC, its just the content of the DAB channels
(Sorry for being pedantic)

Or does a DAB Radio plug into the Cable outlet? (I'd be surprised).

The Analogue Switch off is ONLY TV. No plans at all to close FM Radio.

I can get R.Ulster on Satellite FTA setbox and used to MW via outdoor aerial in Limerick.

R4 FM extends down N2 as far as Collon in car driving from Belfast Newry N1 Dunleer Collen. I lose it due to pick up of a Dublin station at the top of the hill into the Village

ynotdu

watty wrote: »

No DAB on UPC, its just the content of the DAB channels
(Sorry for being pedantic)

Or does a DAB Radio plug into the Cable outlet? (I'd be surprised).

The Analogue Switch off is ONLY TV. No plans at all to close FM Radio.

I can get R.Ulster on Satellite FTA setbox and used to MW via outdoor aerial in Limerick.

R4 FM extends down N2 as far as Collon in car driving from Belfast Newry N1 Dunleer Collen. I lose it due to pick up of a Dublin station at the top of the hill into the Village

Naw DAB receivers not plug into cable AFAIK watty(i hav,nt got one:))
point i was making was neither upc or rte bothered their ass to advertise the possible advantages of DAB(even FM has a limit as to how many channels can fit,but the Irish market has enough already!?:))

I can get ALL the UK radio channels via the 501 method we discussed on another thread:D)on satelite.

I dont own a car so no nowt about car radio reception(the real market for DAB!?)


Question to ANYBODY with a DAB receceiver:besides the four DAB channels I mentioned what if any non RTE channels are available in the south of Ireland?

watty

No. None. Nor any plans for any.

RTE FM perfect in car virtually nationwide. DAB in Car limited coverage.

Car & Mobile phone/PMP are main Radio markets.
The first needs 100% coverage (not likely now for 4 years)
The 2nd needs low cost and low power (can't be done on DAB).
You need all the stations. The extra cost can't be justified commercially. Especially for Local & Community Radio.

ynotdu

watty wrote: »

No. None. Nor any plans for any.

RTE FM perfect in car virtually nationwide. DAB in Car limited coverage.

Car & Mobile phone/PMP are main Radio markets.
The first needs 100% coverage (not likely now for 4 years)
The 2nd needs low cost and low power (can't be done on DAB).
You need all the stations. The extra cost can't be justified commercially. Especially for Local & Community Radio.

so its a no brainer,well we are used to being governed that way!:D