vegetarian children?

maameeo

hi guys, just wondering what your views are on bringing children up as veggies.
i have a 6yr old girl. lived with my parents up until a few months ago, my mam made all the dinners and would give my lil girl meat, i argued and argued about it but i got the usual, 'shes a growing girl, she needs meat'

most of the time though she would eat half of my dinner too because she loved the veggie option! she tells people shes a vegetarian and a meat eater! lol

she absolutely loves govindas and would prefer to go there than mcdonalds, and now that we arnt living with my parents she mostly eats vegetarian.

so my point was, when i first had her i really wanted to bring her up vegetarian (my lack of cooking abilities hindered that!) but now im kind of glad she had a choice because she seems to be doing well.
whereas if shed been brought up a veggie she might be curious about meat and annoyed at me for not letting her have it.

what do you think?

jape

Well personally (and I don't have children) but I wouldn't feed my children meat and if their mother didn't agree to that then I wouldn't have children with her in the first place.

Feeding my own children meat would go against every reason why I am vegetarian in the first place.

Healthwise there has been many studies done proving babies and children don't need meat to grow up healthy. In fact, vegetarian children actually have much lower incidences of serious health problems and usually consume a lot more nutrients than meat-eating children.

I know 2 people who have been vegetarian all their life (both in their 20's now) and they are the healthiest people I know. One of them is a professional soccer player now in the uk.

maameeo

oh i know, my friends lil boy has been brought up veggie, hes 5 now and hes perfect, loads of energy!
in my mams house there was a lot of people, all meat eaters bar me, so meat was everywhere, it was quite difficult to stop her eating it. plus i was 18 when i got pregnant so i was still a 'child' in my mams eyes, so they 'knew better'.
but i dont give her meat, if shes with me its veggie only (i wouldnt be able to stomach touching it if i did give it to her)

Dumb

Well if the child wants to eat meat, let them.

Whats up with ye people? Let the child decide.

maameeo

well a child cant make a conscious decision on it for a few years, the parent must decide what they think is best. its my daughters choice now, sometimes she decides she doesnt want to eat me, sometimes she does. shes only 6, so itll be a few years yet before she can make up her mind.

Dumb

maameeo wrote: »

well a child cant make a conscious decision on it for a few years, the parent must decide what they think is best. its my daughters choice now, sometimes she decides she doesnt want to eat me, sometimes she does. shes only 6, so itll be a few years yet before she can make up her mind.

Where did you get that idea. Of course they can decide. Put it on a plate. They then lift it up. Put it in their mouth. They might spit it out. They might eat it.

If they eat it then they probably like it.

That's the best thing I heard all week. You must think children are brain dead until they reach 5 or something.:pac:

jape

Dumb wrote: »

Where did you get that idea. Of course they can decide. Put it on a plate. They then lift it up. Put it in their mouth. They might spit it out. They might eat it.

If they eat it then they probably like it.

That's the best thing I heard all week. You must think children are brain dead until they reach 5 or something.:pac:

Most parents make decisions for their children up to a certain age, it's called... parenting. The children "liking" meat wouldn't justify me allowing my children to eat meat. They probably also "like" eating crayons, worms and lego pieces. Does that mean you should allow them?

Anyway it's none of your business telling someone else how to raise their children.

Dumb

jape wrote: »

Most parents make decisions for their children up to a certain age, it's called... parenting. The children "liking" meat wouldn't justify me allowing my children to eat meat. They probably also "like" eating crayons, worms and lego pieces. Does that mean you should allow them?

Anyway it's none of your business telling someone else how to raise their children.

It was posted here...entitled to give my opinion.

Eating meat, crayons WTF?

Of course you don't eat crayons!:pac:. But as far as I am aware it is alright to eat meat, unless there are medical conditions etc. So what have you against it? If you don't like it fair enough but let the child decide for christ's sake. :rolleyes:

I don't see why you wouldn't let yor child eat meat. Let them eat healthy amounts anyway. But that's your call. I'm sure they'll do whatever the hell they want when they grow up. :cool: And if that involves eating crayons I don't think there's much you can do about it.

jape

Dumb wrote: »

But as far as I am aware it is alright to eat meat

And you think anyone on a VEGETARIAN/VEGAN forum is going to agree with that?

And to answer your other question, I am against animal cruelty and the slaughter industry. Giving my child meat would be completely hypocritical. I know what will be best for my children, why would I give them meat when it promotes cruelty and everything I'm against, and they would probably be healthier without it?

Also yes I would be fine (if I had children) with them doing "whatever they want" when they grow up, even if that includes meat. But while they are children I will decide what is best for them. That's what parents do.

The crayons argument was basically making rubbish of your point that you should feed children anything so long as they "like" it.

Dumb

No. That's their decision. If the child want to be a vegetarian then let them, if not then don't. If the child says I don't want to eat meat then OK. If they like it why not let them eat it in moderation?


It's as simple as that.

jape

Dumb wrote: »

No. That's their decision. If the child want to be a vegetarian then let them, if not then don't. If the child says I don't want to eat meat then OK. If they like it why not let them eat it in moderation?


It's as simple as that.

Because I don't think it's in their best interests, even from a health perspective, and I don't want to promote animal cruelty. As I said earlier, incidences of chronic illness/childhood obesity/etc are a lot lower in vegetarian children.

You can't just say "No. That's their decision.", what if a child wants to smoke? Or drink vodka? Do you let them because "That's their decision." ??? Rofl.

Dumb

jape wrote: »

Because I don't think it's in their best interests, even from a health perspective, and I don't want to promote animal cruelty. As I said earlier, incidences of chronic illness/childhood obesity/etc are a lot lower in vegetarian children.

You can't just say "No. That's their decision.", what if a child wants to smoke? Or drink vodka? Do you let them because "That's their decision." ??? Rofl.

You're going way off altogether, of course you don't let them smoke etc but I suppose once they're a teenager and if they decide to they will and there's nothing you can do about it. They're big enough then.

Fair enough about animal cruelty but there are plenty of people who eat meat and couldn't care less. It's a way of life. The child will eventually give into a tasty bacon slice! :pac:

Childhood obesity! You can eat meat without getting obese. As I said in moderation and it doesn't have to be chicken nuggets from Mcdonalds, does it?

jape

Dumb wrote: »

You're going way off altogether, of course you don't let them smoke etc but I suppose once they're a teenager and if they decide to they will and there's nothing you can do about it. They're big enough then.

Fair enough about animal cruelty but there are plenty of people who eat meat and couldn't care less. It's a way of life. The child will eventually give into a tasty bacon slice! :pac:

It's not a way of life for 600 million people, myself included. And you probably won't find any of those people who "couldn't care less" on here. You are on a vegetarian forum.

Childhood obesity! You can eat meat without getting obese. As I said in moderation and it doesn't have to be chicken nuggets from Mcdonalds, does it?

Where did I say you couldn't eat meat without getting obese? Do you know the meaning of the words "higher incidence"?

Dumb

jape wrote: »

It's not a way of life for 600 million people, myself included. And you probably won't find any of those people who "couldn't care less" on here. You are on a vegetarian forum.



Where did I say you couldn't eat meat without getting obese? Do you know the meaning of the words "higher incidence"?

I know I'm on this forum. I'm just speaking for the other party.No but you did say obesity levels were lower in Vegetarians right? :rolleyes:

Anyway what I'm saying is let the child decide. How could you be against that? They have their own decisions to make.

Yes they may be young but one day when they decide to eat meat what will you do?

Dumb

maameeo wrote: »

but now im kind of glad she had a choice because she seems to be doing well.
whereas if shed been brought up a veggie she might be curious about meat and annoyed at me for not letting her have it.

what do you think?

I agree with the OP. Fair play to you.

jape

Dumb wrote: »

I know I'm on this forum. I'm just speaking for the other party.No but you did say obesity levels were lower in Vegetarians right? :rolleyes:

They are lower, your point being?

Anyway what I'm saying is let the child decide. How could you be against that? They have their own decisions to make.

My god, I'll say it again - parents make decisions for their children up to a certain age, because they are too young to know what's in their own best interests. That's what parents do.

Yes they may be young but one day when they decide to eat meat what will you do?

I would be perfectly fine with that to be honest. Adults are generally free to make their own conscious decisions without consulting their parents first.

Tar.Aldarion

Any child of mine will not be eating meat until I deem they are old enough to make their own decisions. If they are curious they are curious, op. Kids will always annoy you about something anyway. ;p

maameeo

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Any child of mine will not be eating meat until I deem they are old enough to make their own decisions. If they are curious they are curious, op. Kids will always annoy you about something anyway. ;p

true, i think i would do things differently if i did it again, one childs enough for the moment though

monellia

I can't see myself having kids but, hypothetically, I would definitely raise any potential children of mine as vegetarians at least (it would probably be a "mostly vegan" diet). When they get old enough, I would let them make their own decisions but I think it unlikely that they'd convert to eating meat after being vegetarian for so long.

This should interest some of you. It's an interview with a life-long vegan. Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teJSFIYczhQ

-lala-

I would never feed non-vegan food to a child of mine, I think it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to do so. I really don't get the argument about how it's not fair to not give the child a choice - surely if you make them eat meat then that's not giving them a choice either?

I believe it's wrong to eat animal products, so I wouldn't raise my child to do something I believe is wrong.

Dumb

-lala- wrote: »

I would never feed non-vegan food to a child of mine, I think it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to do so. I really don't get the argument about how it's not fair to not give the child a choice - surely if you make them eat meat then that's not giving them a choice either?

I believe it's wrong to eat animal products, so I wouldn't raise my child to do something I believe is wrong.

Yes give them a choice but don't make them eat it if they don't want to you're not forcing them you're giving them a choice. :rolleyes:

-lala-

Dumb wrote: »

Yes give them a choice but don't make them eat it if they don't want to you're not forcing them you're giving them a choice. :rolleyes:

When a child hasn't learned how to talk yet, you feed them food. You can't ask them would they like a vegan meal or a non-vegan meal. Therefore, you either raise them on vegan food or on non-vegan food, neither of which is (or can be) their choice when they are that age.

So if you give a child meat, you are forcing the child to not be a vegan.

jape

Dumb wrote: »

Yes give them a choice but don't make them eat it if they don't want to you're not forcing them you're giving them a choice. :rolleyes:

Why give them that choice and not other choices? Why not give them the choice whether they want to smoke or not too? They might like it :rolleyes: Do you honestly think you have the aptitude to convince people on a vegetarian forum to feed their children meat?

Nobody on here is telling YOU (or any other meat-eaters) that you should not feed your children meat, so why are you telling US we should feed our children meat? What gives you the right to dictate to people on how to raise THEIR children?

strongbluebell

My daughter has been vegetarian since she was 7. Her choice, I'm not vegetarian. She had always enjoyed eating meat but when she realised where it came from she said she couldn't eat dead animals. She's now a strong healthy teenager, doing well in schools and is still vegetarian.

Dumb

-lala- wrote: »

When a child hasn't learned how to talk yet, you feed them food. You can't ask them would they like a vegan meal or a non-vegan meal. Therefore, you either raise them on vegan food or on non-vegan food, neither of which is (or can be) their choice when they are that age.

So if you give a child meat, you are forcing the child to not be a vegan.

No. As I said put the food on a plate. If they eat it they like it. It's common sense. :rolleyes:

I know you're a vegan but christ they're not going to die if they eat a bit of meat. I know what forum this is so don't be outraged by this. I'm just saying. I'm sure the child won't mind that much. If they turn out to be outraged at killing animals when they're older then they won't eat meat. I'm sure they won't kill you because you gave them a bit when they were younger. :pac:

Although I suppose you'll reply and tell me they will. Being on this forum I suppose I can't win. All I'm saying is if the child will eat a piece of meat let them have.

Dumb

jape wrote: »

Why give them that choice and not other choices? Why not give them the choice whether they want to smoke or not too? They might like it :rolleyes: Do you honestly think you have the aptitude to convince people on a vegetarian forum to feed their children meat?

Nobody on here is telling YOU (or any other meat-eaters) that you should not feed your children meat, so why are you telling US we should feed our children meat? What gives you the right to dictate to people on how to raise THEIR children?

Eating meat does not kill you. I think we get some warnings about it.:pac: Smoking does. :rolleyes:


The op asked didn't they. I replied and I agree with them. You make of the situation what you wish.:D

Dumb

strongbluebell wrote: »

My daughter has been vegetarian since she was 7. Her choice, I'm not vegetarian. She had always enjoyed eating meat but when she realised where it came from she said she couldn't eat dead animals. She's now a strong healthy teenager, doing well in schools and is still vegetarian.

So she ate meat before. That's what I'm talking about. Now she's older she decided she doesn't want it. Fair play to her.

jape

Dumb wrote: »

Eating meat does not kill you. I think we get some warnings about it.:pac: Smoking does. :rolleyes:

Really?

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/313/7060/816

Prevalence of obesity is low in people who do not eat meat

Deaths from Obesity: 300,000 premature deaths associated with obesity annually (CDC)
Death rate extrapolations for USA for Obesity: 300,000 per year, 25,000 per month, 5,769 per week, 821 per day, 34 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second. Note: this automatic extrapolation calculation uses the deaths statistic: 300,000 premature deaths associated with obesity annually (CDC)

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Eating_Lots_of_Red_Meat_Linked_to_Colon_Cancer.asp

Eating Lots of Red Meat Linked to Colon Cancer

Pork crisis: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1208/breaking55.htm

Bird flu: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/

Mad cow disease: http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/mad_cow_disease.html

All potentially fatal ^

Eating chicken is proving to be an especially hazardous enterprise...

For starters, approximately 30 percent of chicken is tainted with Salmonella and 62 percent with its equally virulent cousin, Campylobacter.

Time magazine calls raw chicken "one of the most dangerous items in the American home," and each year in the US alone, contaminated chicken kills at least 1,000 people while sickening as many as 80 million others.

It's no surprise really that chicken is decidedly foul. Desperately crowded factory farms--where more than 90 percent of US chickens and eggs are raised--are fertile breeding grounds for disease. Additionally, slaughterhouses do an excellent job of spreading pathogens from one bird to the next.

Source: http://www.vegsource.com/lyman/chick.htm

Bacon is 'danger' for kids

YOUNGSTERS who eat bacon or ham twice a week increase their chances of getting leukaemia by 74 per cent.

Medics warned eating sausages and hot dogs as regularly brought about a similar health risk.

Experts believe preservative chemicals called nitrites are to blame.

Cases of leukaemia, a blood cancer that hits 500 British kids every year, have been rising steadily for decades, especially in children under five.

Source: http://204.171.196.21/sol/homepage/news/2192562/Bacon-is-danger-for-kids.html

Dumb

Eating Lots of Red Meat Linked to Colon Cancer

In moderation I said. I'm not talking about taking them to get a burger in McDonalds. I'm talking about non-processed home cooked meat.

Oh yeah and as the man once said 84% of statistics are made up. Sure at that way of going on there is something wrong with everything. I'm sure there might be a few oul bugs on the lettuce :pac:

jape

Dumb wrote: »

No. As I said put the food on a plate. If they eat it they like it. It's common sense. :rolleyes:

I know you're a vegan but christ they're not going to die if they eat a bit of meat. I know what forum this is so don't be outraged by this. I'm just saying

People here will be outraged by your comments. You don't seem to understand vegetarianism at all. The reason I am vegetarian is mostly because of the cruelty and torture that farm animals go through just so people can eat them.

Record numbers of chickens and turkeys are being raised and killed for meat in the U.S. every year. Nearly ten billion chickens, and half a billion turkeys, are being hatched in the U.S. every year. These birds are typically crowded by the thousand into huge factory- like warehouses where they can barely move. Chickens are given less than half a square foot of space per bird while turkeys are each given less than three square feet. Both chickens and turkeys have the end of their beaks cut off, and turkeys also have their toes clipped. All of these mutilations are performed without anaesthesia, and they are done in order to reduce injuries which result when stressed birds are driven to fighting.




Today's meat chickens have been genetically altered to grow twice as fast, and twice as large as their ancestors. Pushed beyond their biological limits, hundreds of millions of chickens die every year before reaching slaughter weight at 6 weeks of age. An industry journal explains "broilers [chickens] now grow so rapidly that the heart and lungs are not developed well enough to support the remainder of the body, resulting in congestive heart failure and tremendous death losses." Modern meat type chickens also experience crippling leg disorders, as their legs are not capable of supporting their abnormally heavy bodies. Confined in unhealthy factory farms, the birds also succumb to heat prostration, infectious disease, and cancer.

Source: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/poultry.asp

And some other links:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1671690.stm
http://www.chickenindustry.com/
http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/


You think we would just give up everything we stand for and believe in, promote and support an industry involved with horrific cruelty, just so our children can "enjoy a bit a' meat wit de dinner' ???

jape

Dumb wrote: »

Eating Lots of Red Meat Linked to Colon Cancer

In moderation I said. I'm not talking about taking them to get a burger in McDonalds. I'm talking about non-processed home cooked meat.

Oh yeah and as the man once said 84% of statistics are made up. Sure at that way of going on there is something wrong with everything. I'm sure there might be a few oul bugs on the lettuce :pac:

One of them studies was conducted and published by the American Cancer Society, another by the British Medical Journal. But sure what would they know :rolleyes:

Also I think you'll have a very hard time raising children on non-processed or non-hormone treated meat. Do you know anything about modern farming?

Dumb

jape wrote: »

People here will be outraged by your comments. You don't seem to understand vegetarianism at all. The reason I am vegetarian is mostly because of the cruelty and torture that farm animals go through just so people can eat them.


You think we would just give up everything we stand for and believe in, promote and support an industry involved with horrific cruelty, just so our children can "enjoy a bit a' meat wit de dinner' ???

They're aren't killed inhumanely. Quick and clean. They don't know what hit them. You shouldn't be worried about that. I'm sure there are a few exceptions though. :pac:

Taking a leaf from you're book of silly scenarios - What if you're child stepped on a fly and killed it. Would you go mental! :pac:

jape

Dumb wrote: »

They're aren't killed inhumanely. Quick and clean. They don't know what hit them. You shouldn't be worried about that. I'm sure there are a few exceptions though. :pac:

Now I know you're talking sh1te. They are killed extremely inhumanely. Look up any of those links in my last post. Or if you're afraid I'm biased, google it and find out for yourself.

The majority of broiler chickens (which is probably 99% of the chicken consumed in the world, including all the chickens in your local dunnes/tesco/kfc/etc.) have their beaks smashed off, legs cut off (while conscious), wings snapped. Pumped up with so many growth hormones their organs can't keep up. Then strung upside down, electrically shocked, boiled ALIVE to de-feather them and then have their necks snapped.

I won't even get into the pork and beef industries. Look it up yourself.

jape

Some more links on factory farming:

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp
http://farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/poultry/
http://farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/pork/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

jape

Dumb wrote: »

Taking a leaf from you're book of silly scenarios - What if you're child stepped on a fly and killed it. Would you go mental! :pac:

I think there's a slight difference between the mass factory farming of billions of chickens, pigs, cows who are subjected to horrific and systematic cruelty and pain their entire lives then ruthlessly slaughtered - and a child accidentally killing a fly.

Dumb

A quick snap to the neck and they're gone. Sure how do you think I kill the Turkey for Christmas? I don't maul it to death. :pac:

Dumb

jape wrote: »

I think there's a slight difference between the mass factory farming of billions of chickens, pigs, cows who are subjected to horrific cruelty and pain their entire lives then ruthlessly slaughtered - and a child accidentally killing a fly.

Seeing that you're a great activist for animal rights I thought you'd be bothered about each and every one of gods creatures. No?

What if your lovely child went about killing flies when you weren't looking. How would you feel? Sure haven't we all done it.

Clare Bear

I don't know what I'd do if I had children....I mean I'm with a meat eating partner so in a way what right do I have to only feed my children a vegetarian diet if he doesn't agree with that? Shouldn't we both decide what they eat? I guess we'll know if and when we come to it.

I feed my dogs meat though, they'd laugh at me if I gave them tofu!

Faith

Dumb and jape - give it a rest. Dumb, you're in a vegetarian forum where the majority of users are vegetarians. Stop stirring shít and trying to rile them up. Likewise, jape, meat-eaters are perfectly welcome to use this forum too to engage in a balanced debate about aspects of veganism and vegetarianism. Just because someone posts who isn't a vegetarian doesn't mean they're trolling.

Dumb

Right. I know where I am and you are entitled to eat what you want. All I'm saying is if you have a child let them make their decision.

Clare Bear

Dumb wrote: »

Right. I know where I am and you are entitled to eat what you want. All I'm saying is if you have a child let them make their decision.

But a young child can't make that decision? They don't know what they're eating, of course it's a child's own choice once they're old enough to decide what they want but how do you explain to a 2 year old what they're eating? That's the question here, what do you do when they're too young to know what meat actually is.

Dumb

But how do you explain what a vegetable is?

-lala-

Dumb wrote: »

I'm sure the child won't mind that much.

Well I would mind feeding a child of mine meat.

Clare Bear

Dumb wrote: »

But how do you explain what a vegetable is?

maameeo

Dumb wrote: »

I know you're a vegan but christ they're not going to die if they eat a bit of meat.

thats not the point, the animal dies!!!!

-lala-

maameeo wrote: »

thats not the point, the animal dies!!!!

+1

Dumb, the reason most of us posting here do not want to feed our children meat is because we feel it is ethically wrong to do so.

maameeo

Clare Bear wrote: »

I don't know what I'd do if I had children....I mean I'm with a meat eating partner so in a way what right do I have to only feed my children a vegetarian diet if he doesn't agree with that? Shouldn't we both decide what they eat? I guess we'll know if and when we come to it.

I feed my dogs meat though, they'd laugh at me if I gave them tofu!

that would be a tough one, kinda like my situation when i lived at home, but their was more meat eaters. you'd def have to sit down and talk about it. have u ever asked him, out of curiosity?

Clare Bear

maameeo wrote: »

that would be a tough one, kinda like my situation when i lived at home, but their was more meat eaters. you'd def have to sit down and talk about it. have u ever asked him, out of curiosity?

We haven't discussed it a lot but I think my answer was that if he wanted them to eat meat he could cook it for them himself. It wasn't seriously discussed though so it's probably something that won't really be looked in to until when and if it happens. I'd have to think more about it really, I'm not sure what I think about it just yet. Would love to hear from any other Vegetarians with children whose partners are meat eaters, how has it worked for your situation?

Dumb

"so my point was, when i first had her i really wanted to bring her up vegetarian (my lack of cooking abilities hindered that!) but now im kind of glad she had a choice because she seems to be doing well.whereas if shed been brought up a veggie she might be curious about meat and annoyed at me for not letting her have it.

what do you think? "

The child had a choice. I agree with the OP.