Don't want kids

Malari

I'm half listening to Newstalk (damn pesky customers keep interrupting me with phone calls) but they were talking about a guy who has set up a website in support of people who don't want children, but I missed the name of the website.

There seem to be a good few ladies here who think similarly and I wondered if anyone had caught it? Just out of interest! :pac:

I texted the show but they didn't read it out again

Silverfish

See, if people didn't have kids, you wouldn't have had customers bothering you and you could have listened to the show in peace!

Gauge

There are a lot of communities/websites for 'childfree' people online- you could search using that term and you'll find lots of popular ones.

Some of them focus a LOT of energy on how much they hate children rather than life without children, so keep an eye out for one that interests you.

KTRIC

I was all for no children for the past 10 years, never going to happen I told myself.

Then bang when I hit 30 the urge to get my missus up the duff kicked in.

Can't tell her that though, she'd cut my mickey off

Pherekydes

Malari wrote: »

I'm half listening to Newstalk (damn pesky customers keep interrupting me with phone calls) but they were talking about a guy who has set up a website in support of people who don't want children, but I missed the name of the website.

There seem to be a good few ladies here who think similarly and I wondered if anyone had caught it? Just out of interest! :pac:

I texted the show but they didn't read it out again

Big kids no kids

Porkpie

Malari wrote: »

in support of people who don't want children

Sorry if I'm missing something, but in all fairness what kind of support do they really need?

Malari

Porkpie wrote: »

Sorry if I'm missing something, but in all fairness what kind of support do they really need?

Yeah, I don't really know, that's why I was interested to know what the website was about.

I think parents or other people generally put pressure on couples to have kids. I have had no trouble defending myself personally but I guess some others are made to feel guilty or selfish or something.

Pherekydes

Porkpie wrote: »

Sorry if I'm missing something, but in all fairness what kind of support do they really need?

It's not about support, it's about meeting like-minded people without the guilt tripping that seems to be prevalent amongst those with kids.

metrovelvet

Why do you need a support group?

I dont want to try parasailing or eat 3-5 servings of vegetables a day or go to Australia or collect stamps. Is there a support group around for for everything you dont want to do.

Pherekydes

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why do you need a support group?

It's not about support, it's about meeting like-minded people without the guilt tripping that seems to be prevalent amongst those with kids.

Gauge

People, it's not rocket science, it's a website where liked-minded adults/people of childbearing age can chat about life without children.

You know, kinda like Irish people might congregate on say, an Irish board. Or kinda like women congregating on a subforum for women.

Dudess

Is it a reality that there's any significant harassment being experienced by those who have chosen to be childfree though?
I mean, there's the "Why don't you have children/Any news for us?!/Tick tick tick" brigade... but apart from being annoying (and in the case of "tick tick tick" spectacularly rude and ignorant) is there any reason to let them get to you? I suppose when you're hearing it day in, day out, it gets on top of you - better to come up with some razor-sharp retorts though, rather than setting up a support group, in my opinion.

The childfree movement has its uglier elements too - "crotch dropping" is a term that has been coined round those parts. Wtf?!

I mean, is it really necessary to assert how proud you are of your decision not to have children? While I know some people simply choose not to have children, I can't help but wonder whether some of those who'd deep down like it but know they're not equipped for it are simply venting.

stovelid

Might be an idea for a new boards forum.

bronte

Dudess wrote: »

Is it a reality that there's any significant harassment being experienced by those who have chosen to be childfree though?
I mean, there's the "Why don't you have children/Any news for us?!/Tick tick tick" brigade... but apart from being annoying (and in the case of "tick tick tick" spectacularly rude and ignorant) is there any reason to let them get to you? I suppose when you're hearing it day in, day out, it gets on top of you - better to come up with some razor-sharp retorts though, rather than setting up a support group, in my opinion.

The childfree movement has its uglier elements too - "crotch dropping" is a term that has been coined round those parts. Wtf?!

I mean, is it really necessary to assert how proud you are of your decision not to have children? While I know some people simply choose not to have children, I can't help but wonder whether some of those who'd deep down like it but know they're not equipped for it are simply venting.

I think the reason these groups are popping up is because people ARE so ignorant when it comes to pressure. It's made a lot of people very angry.
You're right about the razor sharp retorts , it's the only thing that works.
Something like 'My sex life is none of your business' etc! :pac:

I get questions all the time from one particular relative and I'm 25 FFS!

It's incredibly rude. :mad:

G86

bronte wrote: »

I think the reason these groups are popping up is because people ARE so ignorant when it comes to pressure. It's made a lot of people very angry.
You're right about the razor sharp retorts , it's the only thing that works.
Something like 'My sex life is none of your business' etc! :pac:

I get questions all the time from one particular relative and I'm 25 FFS!

It's incredibly rude. :mad:

I agree. I was sure for years that I never wanted kids, I'm really just not very maternal, but whenever I said it to anyone they basically laughed in my face!! Responses ranged from telling me I'd change my mind to telling me I must have something wrong with me, no-one could accept that it was a personal choice.

I have started to feel more open to the idea as I've got older, and it's something I'd consider in a few years, but it's still something that's not a number one priority, and if I didn't have kids it wouldn't phase me one bit.

However I'd reluctant to say that now to any of the people who questioned my decision before, simply because I know they'd love the 'I told you so's'. :rolleyes:

A friend of mine is 34 and married, she's is constantly asked by friends and family when she's having kids and it drives her mad as she's told them many many times that neither her nor her hubbie want children at all. It can be really awkward for her at family gatherings etc as many people even assume she physically can't have them and can't seem to comprehend that she just doesn't want any.

Latchy

Well one thing is sure and that is some people are not cut out to be parents but that's slightly different to somebody deciding they dont want kids ,not because they would / wouldnt make good parents but they have their own reasons ,it's not for them .At least they are being honest because lets face it, once kids come along you just have to get one with it, being a parent that is .

bronte

G86 wrote: »

I


A friend of mine is 34 and married, she's is constantly asked by friends and family when she's having kids and it drives her mad as she's told them many many times that neither her nor her hubbie want children at all. It can be really awkward for her at family gatherings etc as many people even assume she physically can't have them and can't seem to comprehend that she just doesn't want any.

This is the other part, God forbid you were infertile/having difficulty , the amount of upset one comment would cause.
I just don't understand how people don't think!
Maybe it's an Irish thing, I'm not sure.

I've also never understood why people can't get their tiny brains around the fact you might not actually want children.

Salome

A friend of mine is desperately trying to conceive - it must be hell for her to have the interrogation from people who don't know about her problem. She's heading for IVF now .

Why do people feel the need to ask these questions? Surely, it's no one's concern apart from the couple in question?

midlandsmissus

I went to a friend's friends barbecue last wknd. The wife of the couple had a 4 month old baby.

She came out of the house looking like something out of night of the living dead,never ever seen someone so pale with massive dark circles under their eyes.She told me hadn't slept in seven days and was going crazy.The baby screamed the whole time we were there,I couldnt wait to get out of there.

This seriously made me think I might not want kids afterall!

FruitLover

Pherekydes wrote: »

It's not about support, it's about meeting like-minded people without the guilt tripping that seems to be prevalent amongst those with kids.

...and trying to score men/women who you know won't try to guilt you into having kids later on in the relationship.

Salome wrote: »

Why do people feel the need to ask these questions? Surely, it's no one's concern apart from the couple in question?

Because if there's one thing misery loves, it's company...

Porkpie

It's a pity that the very people that shouldn't have kids produce the most offspring. If you cannot give a child love, a decent home and proper education, you shouldn't be so selfish to have one. Just look around our fair city at all the scum walking around with the buggies. What chance do the kids have?

neuro-praxis

They have no chance as long as you continue to view them as scum.

The_Conductor

Dudess wrote: »

Is it a reality that there's any significant harassment being experienced by those who have chosen to be childfree though?

There is pressure for 'positive discrimination' in favour of people who do choose to have children- normally under the banner of 'family friendly policies' in the work place. Thus- opportunities which may be available to parents- such as flexible working conditions- or in the public sector- 'term time' are perks which have been ringfenced for parents- to the exclusion of others. This is not harassment- its active discrimination in favour of parents- at a cost to those who are not parents.

Similarly- if you go shopping- you have 'Parents and Children' parking spaces near the front- and woe betide anyone who may feel too ill to transverse the carpark. I've gone shopping several times on my own- simply because my wife hasn't felt well enough to wander around the carpark...... Some places are far worse than others in this respect. Certainly I hate to see someone park in a disabled space- if they're not disabled- but please, why is half the shagging carpark designated for parents with children? Bollox to that. I brought it up with a Manager at Superquinn in Lucan- you know he actually agreed with me- he said it was a nightmare- he had had so many complaints- and they also had to install extra cameras in the designated areas, as the incidents of car park accidents were significantly higher there (I have no idea what he was going on about- but it seemed to be a pet peeve of his).

There is active discrimination in favour of parents- to the extent that anyone who doesn't have kids is made feel they are having their noses rubbed in it- whether by choice or circumstances.

I am all in favour of treating kids with dignity and respect- but when the cost associated with what should be normal behaviour is bourne by another group- the childless group- you have to ask yourself are you willing to accept the cost associated with the gesture.

metrovelvet

smccarrick wrote: »

There is pressure for 'positive discrimination' in favour of people who do choose to have children- normally under the banner of 'family friendly policies' in the work place. Thus- opportunities which may be available to parents- such as flexible working conditions- or in the public sector- 'term time' are perks which have been ringfenced for parents- to the exclusion of others. This is not harassment- its active discrimination in favour of parents- at a cost to those who are not parents.

Similarly- if you go shopping- you have 'Parents and Children' parking spaces near the front- and woe betide anyone who may feel too ill to transverse the carpark. I've gone shopping several times on my own- simply because my wife hasn't felt well enough to wander around the carpark...... Some places are far worse than others in this respect. Certainly I hate to see someone park in a disabled space- if they're not disabled- but please, why is half the shagging carpark designated for parents with children? Bollox to that. I brought it up with a Manager at Superquinn in Lucan- you know he actually agreed with me- he said it was a nightmare- he had had so many complaints- and they also had to install extra cameras in the designated areas, as the incidents of car park accidents were significantly higher there (I have no idea what he was going on about- but it seemed to be a pet peeve of his).

There is active discrimination in favour of parents- to the extent that anyone who doesn't have kids is made feel they are having their noses rubbed in it- whether by choice or circumstances.

I am all in favour of treating kids with dignity and respect- but when the cost associated with what should be normal behaviour is bourne by another group- the childless group- you have to ask yourself are you willing to accept the cost associated with the gesture.

Car parking. I appreciate those spaces because the extra space on the side means I can open the door wide enough to get my son out of the car without risk of banging his head r having to do all sorts of contortionism to get him out.

I know what you are saying about being ill and wanting a close by space. When I had UC I sure would have appreciated proximity. Frankly I see this as a flaw in that there is no tiered system for disability or illness. So with the disabled sticker comes all sorts of other privaleges, like no tax on a car purchase and other grants and that is why they don't give out those stickers much.

Ive only been a parent for a little while but when I wasnt one I have had no experience of guilt tripping or peer pressure and dont really know what anyone here is talking about.

Nelson Muntz

smccarrick wrote: »

There is pressure for 'positive discrimination' in favour of people who do choose to have children- normally under the banner of 'family friendly policies' in the work place. Thus- opportunities which may be available to parents- such as flexible working conditions- or in the public sector- 'term time' are perks which have been ringfenced for parents- to the exclusion of others. This is not harassment- its active discrimination in favour of parents- at a cost to those who are not parents.

Similarly- if you go shopping- you have 'Parents and Children' parking spaces near the front- and woe betide anyone who may feel too ill to transverse the carpark. I've gone shopping several times on my own- simply because my wife hasn't felt well enough to wander around the carpark...... Some places are far worse than others in this respect. Certainly I hate to see someone park in a disabled space- if they're not disabled- but please, why is half the shagging carpark designated for parents with children? Bollox to that. I brought it up with a Manager at Superquinn in Lucan- you know he actually agreed with me- he said it was a nightmare- he had had so many complaints- and they also had to install extra cameras in the designated areas, as the incidents of car park accidents were significantly higher there (I have no idea what he was going on about- but it seemed to be a pet peeve of his).

There is active discrimination in favour of parents- to the extent that anyone who doesn't have kids is made feel they are having their noses rubbed in it- whether by choice or circumstances.

I am all in favour of treating kids with dignity and respect- but when the cost associated with what should be normal behaviour is bourne by another group- the childless group- you have to ask yourself are you willing to accept the cost associated with the gesture.

So you are saying it is not fair because parents get the best car parks?

FFS gimme a break. As for the flexible working hours, if you want a 4 day week go to your boss & ask for one.

The_Conductor

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

So you are saying it is not fair because parents get the best car parks?

I gave an example of my ill wife who wasn't capable of wandering around the carpark- another poster mentioned her UC (I, myself with Crohns- need access to parking and toilets in a hurry). It is not fair that vast swathes of car parks are designated 'parents with children' when there are other groups of customers with equally as great needs as this group of people. Many people with long term illnesses don't shop in certain places- because they can't be sure of parking. They are not disabled. If they try to park in a parent and child spot- they risk significant verbal abuse from other customers (and in some cases assault- as evidenced by the case from Superquinn Lucan in court during the week)- its simply not worth the hassle.

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

FFS gimme a break. As for the flexible working hours, if you want a 4 day week go to your boss & ask for one.

I gave specific examples of working arrangements which are available solely to parents- and in some cases- solely to parents with children in specific age categories. I never mentioned a 4 day week anywhere in my post- I mentioned flexible working arrangements- such as flexitime for parents- or termtime- where they can take blocks of unpaid (or paid) leave- which is not open to people who are not parents- and these people are also expected to provide cover for the parents when they avail of these ring fenced opportunities. It is discrimination to make these arrangements available to one group of people- and not another.

Tupins

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why do you need a support group?

I dont want to try parasailing or eat 3-5 servings of vegetables a day or go to Australia or collect stamps. Is there a support group around for for everything you dont want to do.

And when was the last time anyone put any pressure on you to do any of those things? I'm guessing never.

However, tell people you are not having kids and although some will be fine, some will look at you as if you are the devil incarnate!

Take it from a thirty one year old married woman with (shock horror) no children - believe me the "isn't it about time?" and "you're not getting any younger" comments can get upsetting after a while.


Plus as mentioned, the site isn't a 'support group' anyway - it's just a website.

Nelson Muntz

Fair enough, I just don't see the point in worrying about what other people get or do.

BTW we just had our first baby at 36 & 37 so I know what people are talking about regarding comments about "don't wait too long" etc.

Malari

I've never experienced any discrimination that I care about in terms of parental advantages in workplaces. Sure, parents can get time off if junior is sick or even just wants his mommy or whatever, but I think the cost of being a parent far outweighs the benefit of time off, so it doesn't bother me.

As for parking, I always thought those symbols meant "reserved for girls with short boyfriends" :pac:

Tupins wrote: »

Plus as mentioned, the site isn't a 'support group' anyway - it's just a website.

Maybe I'm lucky in that I already have "support" - my parents, siblings, friends don't care what decision I make regarding whether I want to have kids or not. Anyone else (aquaintances) who scoffs, reckons I will change my mind, pities me, plain doesn't believe me, etc I really don't care. I have plenty of smart comments for people who are rude.

I would think many people don't have that support, which is when it becomes difficult even to talk about. A website that you can go to for resources or even similar experiences is probably helpful.

Kernel32

smccarrick wrote: »

There is active discrimination in favour of parents- to the extent that anyone who doesn't have kids is made feel they are having their noses rubbed in it- whether by choice or circumstances.

I am all in favour of treating kids with dignity and respect- but when the cost associated with what should be normal behaviour is bourne by another group- the childless group- you have to ask yourself are you willing to accept the cost associated with the gesture.

I do agree to a point that their is positive discrimination to parents in certain areas of society. Your point regarding cost though is very important. As you pointed out in another posting you have a long term illness and I think health care in general is a good example when talking about this. The cost of health care is spread over the general population, particularly in a socialized system like in Ireland. Some people will use much less than they pay in and others will use much more. The ones who use more will have theirs payed for by the children of their peers as they get older as they become the taxpayers.

If we took an approach in society in general of one group not shouldering some of the cost for another group it would make for a very divided world. Child and childless, ill and healthy and so on. Is this really the world we want to live in? There are definitely annoyances when at the extreme ends and some groups will always get a little screwed over here and there but over time things change, balance and/or push to the other side of a spectrum.

shoegirl

Dudess wrote: »

Is it a reality that there's any significant harassment being experienced by those who have chosen to be childfree though?

Yes.

Lots of it.

It also can make it very difficult to meet a like minded partner as some people get very "upset" about it. It can be very tough, especially for hetero women. Not to mention the patronising stupidity that they get from others. My hetero friends are delighted to find somebody who will listen to them without judgment on this issue. I find it particularly sad that they get such heavy criticism.

Oryx

For the childless posters here who think that they are the only one the nagging brigade get on to, youre not. I have two kids, and still, in my late 30s I get nosy ol biddies asking me 'are ya not going for another' and 'when is the next one coming along'. I think it has nothing to do with an interest in your fertility, and more to do with them having half a dozen kids and wanting everyone to suffer like they did.

Re the parking thing, I think Ive used the reserved spaces no more than half a dozen times, partly cos theyre always full. But rather than just cossetting new mammies and not making them walk 100 feet, it also prevents little kids from being mown down as they run away from mammy on the way to the shop. (It happens to even the best parents!)

stovelid

Oryx wrote: »

Re the parking thing, I think Ive used the reserved spaces no more than half a dozen times, partly cos theyre always full. But rather than just cossetting new mammies and not making them walk 100 feet, it also prevents little kids from being mown down as they run away from mammy on the way to the shop. (It happens to even the best parents!)

I've only used them in outdoor car parks if I have my boy with me and it's raining.

Maddison

Thought Id give my tuppence worth. I am a mummy of one mad little 5 year old. I never ever even dreamt of having children, I always had visions of me being a high flier with a penhouse apartment & a BMW travelling the world. Children were never on my agenda at all, even as a child playing mammies & daddies I never wanted to be the mammy, Id be the big brother! I fell pregnant aged 19 & had my baby boy when I just turned 20....when I saw the positive pregancy test I threw up & was so horrified. I had a relatively easy pregnancy & grew used to the idea of becoming a mammy. I had a very easy labour but had post natal depression until my wee man was 9 months old. I love my little boy to pieces & I wouldnt change him for the world. Thats not to say I dont have my days where I wish I could do what I wanted without having to think about another person. I can understand women not wanting to have children, It is a huge commitment & its not an easy job. I dont think I will have any more children, but then again I am still young & may change my mind in 10 years time.
I cherish my little boy. There are people that for some reason or another cant have children(and I truly feel for them), there are people that dont want children at all, and there are people like me that didnt want children but were blessed with one anyway and now would die for their kids.
Everyone is different & nobody should feel pressurized to have children.