Breaking a Lease

gunsofbrixton

I'm in a bad situation financially so have to move out of my 900 euro apartment the reason being my girlfriends after losing her job and we can't afford the rent we have a desposit down of 900 and the money is due out the end of this month.

We have recently asked for rent reduction and the landlord wouldn't budge!!

The landlord is a big property developer basically one of the Anglo boys we've been advised by those in the know not too bother dealing with this guy and to basically cancel the direct debit stay for a 3 weeks of the last 4 and move out making sure all bills are settled and the place is spotless clean.

What would you do and to be honest dealing with this guy or risking losing the deposit is not an option. What are the ramifications?

kaimera

if ya have a quick search you'll see quite a few threads about breaking a lease.

legally, you can't break it. landlord can keep the deposit and may come after you for rent owed for the remainder of the lease contract.

totally depends on the landlord

bobbiw

be honest with him, you may loose your deposit if you are lucky. If I was a property developer and you ran out on me I would persue you and bankrupt you.

gunsofbrixton

Bobbiw

Well 6 X 900= €5400 remainder of lease hardly a sum enough to bankrupt me now you sound like a pissed of property developer who's last quick buck scheme didn't work out

plus this guy is just not payin his loans simple as that in a development in Kildare with about 10% occupancy thats right all around us there are empty apartments!!!!

I have very little sympathy for him to be honest

bangersandmash

bobbiw wrote: »

If I was a property developer and you ran out on me I would persue you and bankrupt you.

A little excessive don't you think? The developer is perfectly entitled to pursue for the rent for the remainder of the lease, but this rarely happens. But as the OP said, talk of bankruptcy here is just pure hyperbole.

An empty development in Kildare and yet the developer is refusing to consider anything lower than €900 per month from an existing tenant? He must waiting for a deus ex machina to solve all his problems.

D3PO

bobbiw wrote: »

be honest with him, you may loose your deposit if you are lucky. If I was a property developer and you ran out on me I would persue you and bankrupt you.

i agree with your fundamental sentiment that the OP should be chased down to pay what they owe legally (shock horror) but there no need to be such an ass about it.

To the OP you signed a legally binding document. If it was me I would chase you through the courts to get the money owed.

Too many tennants out there who think they can do what they like. Dont get me wrong Im very sympathetic of your situation and wish your girlfriend every success in getting a new job fast.

That said you have a responsibility, dont take on that responsibility if you cant handle it.

The_Conductor

bangersandmash wrote: »

An empty development in Kildare and yet the developer is refusing to consider anything lower than €900 per month from an existing tenant? He must waiting for a deus ex machina to solve all his problems.

Whats so surprising? He has a legally binding lease guaranteeing him €900 per month from said tenant- until the lease expires. The tenant in turn is entitled to an annual rent review- this will not come to pass for several months. Its not in the developer's interests to unilaterly offer a discount to this or any other tenant- and indeed- the manner in which they are in hock to the bank- may preclude this.

In short- the tenants situation is unfortunate- their best bet is to seek to sublet the unit for the remainder of the lease at whatever the going market rate is (and topup the rent they get to make up the EUR900 due to the developer).

Its not ideal- but people really do not understand just how poorly protected private individuals are in Irish law- in comparison to the UK or the US.

bangersandmash

smccarrick wrote: »

Whats so surprising? He has a legally binding lease guaranteeing him €900 per month from said tenant- until the lease expires.

At which point the disgruntled tenant leaves and the developer is left with yet another empty property that they cannot sell or rent. It's purely a short-term gain.

You're right that there's nothing surprising and the developer's situation with regard to their bank may mean that they're only focusing on keeping their head above water in the short-term.

Incidentally I completely agree that a tenant should have to comply with a binding contract that they have signed, regardless of personal circumstances. In the same way, the financial circumstances of a developer or landlord should not have any bearing on the price or upkeep of a rented property.

gunsofbrixton

good info i am aware of legally binding agreements and believe me i'm not doing this lightly the risk/reward ratio is whats driving this i.e. the risk of being "bankrupted" vs. reward of just getting out quick.

With regard to the bank and the landlord another murky issue which gives me confidence that i won't be pursued is the fact that his transactions are suspect.

The rent i pay is not paid into the bank which advanced the loan to the developer(don't ask how i know this). The payment is not even made to the development company lets say "Rip Off Home Ltd." its paid to a completelty different bank to his personal account.

I'd be surprised if the lending bank is even aware that their impaired asset is even generating any revenue.

You know i could be wrong on this but i feel like i'm paying this guy his pocket money for the month while with my tax I shore up the balance sheet of his lending bank!!

Pete4779

gunsofbrixton wrote: »

good info i am aware of legally binding agreements and believe me i'm not doing this lightly the risk/reward ratio is whats driving this i.e. the risk of being "bankrupted" vs. reward of just getting out quick.

With regard to the bank and the landlord another murky issue which gives me confidence that i won't be pursued is the fact that his transactions are suspect.

It's interesting that you are more concerned with the property owners finances and loans than you are with the fact that you are trying to break a contract because you can't afford to pay it. I would stop worrying or slagging off the developer or owner and start considering:

1. The chances of you being made complete the terms of the lease
2. The chances of the owner having the goodwill to allow you to break the lease early without penalty.

Where rent is paid to and to what account is exactly none of your business. The owner may have a Limited company that processes the transactions of incomes and expenses from it's own accounts. This has nothing to do with where the mortgage came from, or what account the development or development company, and there is no reason why it should. Do you really think that any functioning business has one bank account and everything goes through it? Many individuals may have only one account but this owner is likely to have several because of several businesses and companies running properties.

How you feel about the situation is entirely irrelevant to your problem which is that you signed a contract for €5400 and now can't pay it, making you, ironically, as bad as any property developer trying to get bailed out. Talk to him nicely.

If you don't pay your share on this, the developer then goes to the bank, goes bust, and we all pay a little more to bail them out so that you can avoid paying your contract terms. Don't make me pay for your problems.

D3PO

Pete4779 wrote: »

It's interesting that you are more concerned with the property owners finances and loans than you are with the fact that you are trying to break a contract because you can't afford to pay it. I would stop worrying or slagging off the developer or owner and start considering:

1. The chances of you being made complete the terms of the lease
2. The chances of the owner having the goodwill to allow you to break the lease early without penalty.

Where rent is paid to and to what account is exactly none of your business. The owner may have a Limited company that processes the transactions of incomes and expenses from it's own accounts. This has nothing to do with where the mortgage came from, or what account the development or development company, and there is no reason why it should. Do you really think that any functioning business has one bank account and everything goes through it? Many individuals may have only one account but this owner is likely to have several because of several businesses and companies running properties.

How you feel about the situation is entirely irrelevant to your problem which is that you signed a contract for €5400 and now can't pay it, making you, ironically, as bad as any property developer trying to get bailed out. Talk to him nicely.

If you don't pay your share on this, the developer then goes to the bank, goes bust, and we all pay a little more to bail them out so that you can avoid paying your contract terms. Don't make me pay for your problems.

here here

gunsofbrixton

take your point Peter a contract is a contract

bangersandmash

Pete4779 wrote: »

If you don't pay your share on this, the developer then goes to the bank, goes bust, and we all pay a little more to bail them out so that you can avoid paying your contract terms. Don't make me pay for your problems.

That's a little harsh. The OP is not exactly exhibiting the irresponsible "handing back the keys" attitude that appears here too often. He said that he is prepared to continue to rent the property at a reduced rent. The developer has refused to negotiate, which seems to be a very short-sighted decision. Apparently the mentality of "I know the rental/sale value of my property and I'll get that or nothing" is still prevalent. In the medium-term that kind of mentality is likely to cost us all more than the OP's €5400 which may or may not be going to prop up our banks.

Of course the reality here is that the OP must honour the contact he signed, which he has duly acknowledged.

Tigger

bobbiw wrote: »

be honest with him, you may loose your deposit if you are lucky. If I was a property developer and you ran out on me I would persue you and bankrupt you.

well i'd sublet to bankers

bobbiw

I am just sying that a contract is a contract and there are too many little Irish fools on these boards saying that they are going to break contracts to save a few hundred euro a month.

If every one did that then well, Ireland would be in a worse state than it is today. Already its headed to bankrupcy where you potentialy will be lucky to sell any home.

I dont know what will happen then rioting int he streets etc. Then you will have americans swooping in and buying Ballsbridge for cents on the euro.

Ireland is not going through what the other countires of the world are going through. it was going to collapse very well on its own.

And sentiments like getting out of a lease just compound the problem.

And while property developers did make money. They were not evil, they were responding to demand and took their share of risk for the reward.

If it wasnt for them many Irish people would never have seen a paycheck in their lives.

subway

bangersandmash wrote: »

the mentality of "I know the rental/sale value of my property

the OP is implying he has a fixed term lease. assuming he does, the remaining value of that is 5400 so the landlord actually does know what its worth in this instance.
it may not be worth that at the end of the year but this is money in the bag,
why would the landlord take the OPs word that he would stay on longer if the rent was cheaper? hes looking for advice on how to break a legally binding contract.

TheCityManager

A friend of mine has just taken a years lease on a property, last friday in fact...one week in he finds that for personal reasons he may not be able to live there for more than a few weeks more...he doesnt mind loosing his deposit but will he be chased for the remaining 11 odd months rent???

gunsofbrixton

the guys on here reckon so in terms of the law your friend is liable for the remainder of the lease

The chances or odds of the landlord pursuing you with the associated costs is probably quite low but you never know

The landlord in your friends case could quite probably keep the months deposit and seen as its such a short space of time could throw someone in there in a week or two for the same terms in turn pickin up a handy couple of weeks rent for nothin

Maybe the guys on here can point to cases where a landlord has succesfully pursued a previous tenant wouldn't mind findin out myself

TheCityManager

gunsofbrixton wrote: »

the guys on here reckon so in terms of the law your friend is liable for the remainder of the lease

The chances or odds of the landlord pursuing you with the associated costs is probably quite low but you never know

The landlord in your friends case could quite probably keep the months deposit and seen as its such a short space of time could throw someone in there in a week or two for the same terms in turn pickin up a handy couple of weeks rent for nothin

Maybe the guys on here can point to cases where a landlord has succesfully pursued a previous tenant wouldn't mind findin out myself

Actually I know the area and the house along with the one beside it have been up for lease for ages..(I guided him to it..) the one next door is still vacant..so chances are if he jumos out the property will remain vacant for ages more...

gunsofbrixton

oh well like i said the amount of hassle involved in pursuing your buddy for the remainder of the lease is probably enough to put off the landlord

TheCityManager

TheCityManager wrote: »

Actually I know the area and the house along with the one beside it have been up for lease for ages..(I guided him to it..) the one next door is still vacant..so chances are if he jumos out the property will remain vacant for ages more...

This situation has blown up over the weekend again..

he is in the property 10 days..since then the water has gone twice (i mean totally gone..think its a pump issue) there has been a big water leak out of hotpress onto landing and bedrooms, his car has been scratched and vandalised outside, his garage door is used a a goal by locals young lads, his teen daughter and friend were 'harrassed' by local youths whilst walking down to house...basically the place is a kip..he has now stayed two nights with me due to no water and the whole thing is driving him insane (he's very down at the mo ..very)
He intends ringing estate agents today and giving notice to quit next weekend...he is also gonna seek his deposit back..

Opinions on chances of landlord (gannon homes) coming after him for years rent??

The_Conductor

The property has to be habitable. If it isn't- good luck to Gannon Homes chasing him. I would suggest contacting an enforcement officer from the local council to document the problems with the property- as very obviously its sub standard. I would also suggest the matter of compensation with the estate agent for the grief they've caused (it won't work- but it would indicate that the determination on your part.

S.

D3PO

smccarrick wrote: »

The property has to be habitable. If it isn't- good luck to Gannon Homes chasing him. I would suggest contacting an enforcement officer from the local council to document the problems with the property- as very obviously its sub standard. I would also suggest the matter of compensation with the estate agent for the grief they've caused (it won't work- but it would indicate that the determination on your part.

S.

yes it has to be habitable so the water is an issue. however the kids using the garage as a goal, his daughter being harrased , his car being damanged etc etc are not the landlords concerns and not a reason to break a lease.