Do I have to pay?

artvandulet

Hi, don't know if this is the place to be posting this but here it goes.

Today a Bord Gais man called into the house to say that our meter isnt working and needs to be replaced. Fine.
Except then he said it appears it never worked since they installed it over a year ago - shortly after I moved in. I wasnt informed they changed my meter.
Anyway, he said because the meter was broken but I've been using gas that I will owe all the money.
When I moved house I put all my bills onto direct debit and all my bank accounts to paperless statements so that i wouldnt get so much post through the door and so all the bills get paid on time. My mistake here is that I never opened my bord gais bills, which i assumed were getting paid as the meter gets checked every 2 months and they are paid by DD but as it turns out, the bill were for €8 each month and with no gas charge.

Does the fact that I set up a direct debt mean that it is their fault that they have been charging me incorrectly or do I actually have to pay them a big lump sum-which there's no way in hell I can afford!!
After all, it is their new meter that broke and it wasnt like I wasnt trying to pay everything I owe at the time. They check our meters every 2 months so why it took over a year to realise mine is faulty is beyond me.

Is the law on my side here:?
Any ideas??
Cheers

fred funk }{

I cant see how they can work out how much you owe if the meter was broken. Unless they could do an estimate from previous years but you're only there a year and I don't think an estimate is good enough TBH.

artvandulet

Thanks for the reply.
Thats a good point. The meter reading I gave when I moved cant be used because they replace my meter a couple of months later with a new one.
I was a bord Gais customer before but that doesnt mean my old house costs the same to heat as the new one.
Whether or not an estimate is good enough legally though, thats the question.
Cheers.

Victor

While there may be a meter for the whole street to see how much gas enters the street (to check if there is a leak), deducting the individual meter totals for other properties will only give an indication of what you used, not anything accurate.

If they come looking for money, I think make them a modest offer.

artvandulet

Victor wrote: »

While there may be a meter for the whole street to see how much gas enters the street (to check if there is a leak), deducting the individual meter totals for other properties will only give an indication of what you used, not anything accurate.

If they come looking for money, I think make them a modest offer.

Thanks.
I don't even think I can afford a 'modest' offer!

Sleipnir

Well if I were you, I would use too much gas in the first two months after they fixed it or they could use that to work out an 'estimated' amount.

artvandulet

Sleipnir wrote: »

Well if I were you, I would'nt use too much gas in the first two months after they fixed it or they could use that to work out an 'estimated' amount.

good point!

Sleipnir

Sleipnir wrote: »

Well if I were you, I wouldn't use too much gas in the first two months after they fixed it or they could use that to work out an 'estimated' amount.

Carawaystick

I presume you were paying something right? and your meter was read several times during the year.
Part of what you were paying for was a safe and working gas supply. If bord Gais didn't supply correctly working equipment, even though you were paying for it, then *they* owe you a refund for not supplying the service as advertised - I'd look at section 39 of the sale of goods and supply of services act

artvandulet

Carawaystick wrote: »

I presume you were paying something right? and your meter was read several times during the year.
Part of what you were paying for was a safe and working gas supply. If bord Gais didn't supply correctly working equipment, even though you were paying for it, then *they* owe you a refund for not supplying the service as advertised - I'd look at section 39 of the sale of goods and supply of services act

Thanks for that suggestion. I will. I was paying by DD. Each month €8 is charged as a minimum. The meter would have been read at least 6 times over the course of the year and no one decided to report it faulty until this week!

none

Artvandulet, any chance you can update us on the outcome??

I seem to have a similar issue whereby Bord Gais issued a bill for more than a grand saying I didn't pay since moving in. That was the first thing I did - call Bord Gais to setup a Gas account with them - but now they I had to have two (Gas and Heat). Electricity is separate and it seems irrelevant here. It's just that Bord Gais, after almost two years, came to me asking why I didn't pay for Heat and I never knew Heat reaquires a separate account to the Gas one.

Now I want to challenge their request so I'd like to know your experience:)

Cheers!

Victor

What do you mean by "heat". Is your property connected to a building/neighbourhood heating system?

none

I have no idea. They just called me to ask for money and I said No, I'm not convinced.
Basically, it's a third, undercover entity (which neither Google nor their own site managed to reveal) from Bord Gais (except for Gas and Electricity) which is supposedly selling heat (still not sure why is it different from Gas and Electricity). They claim I was expected to sign up when moved in but I never even knew they existed! I always had Electricity, sometimes Gas, but never Heat accounts.
How am I supposed to tolerate this racket!?

Victor

Are you an owner occupier or a tenant? I would talk to the management agent / landlord to find out what this is about and why you weren't informed.

Has the person who called given you any paper work? I would contact to make sure this isn't a con. http://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/contact-us/home/gas/

none

Renting. Agency didn't bother talking to me about it. Not at the beginning of the contract, not now. But, last week, they apparently, due to some strange reason, notified BG Heat that the apartment has been occupied for more than 1 year and a half. And BG Heat indeed straight away sent a letter asking for money. BG Heat said they thought the apartment was vacant all this time but then they said it did accumulate a huge bill. Still, they did nothing until the agency (no idea why) contacted them. And, all of a sudden, BG Heat realised they can get some money for the apartment they though was vacant all this time:cool:
When I mentioned BG Heat doesn't even exist according to BG information, the person calling me invited to their office somewhere near Connolly station...

Victor

none wrote: »

When I mentioned BG Heat doesn't even exist according to BG information, the person calling me invited to their office somewhere near Connolly station...

That's not the right answer. :mad:

Bord Gáis do have an office opposite Connolly Station, but that doesn't prove you owe them anything.

Victor

Interestingly, google only throws up your thread as a legitmate reference to Bord Gáis Heat.

Phone the main Bord Gáis number and ask them what its about.

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&biw=1024&bih=551&q=%22bord+gais+heat%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=28ef68f1bcfd0f62

MagicSean

This sounds suspicious at best. I've never heard of anyone selling heat. Have you asked your neighbours about it? If you pay for gas this presumably powers your heating, unless there is some apartment system installed. Have a word with BG and maybe report it to your local Garda station.

none

Hi,
Thanks for your feedback:)

They sound half genuine, to be honest. I mean, they do seem to be associated with BG but they don't seem to be used to doing business on their own. I suppose, they may sell enegry to Businesses or something. So they can't really deal with resiadential customers, as it seems. The person talking to me was Office Manager and she was sounding like begging for money rather than trying to enforce some policies as there are no policies.

I told them if they screwed it up themselves, why they want to charge me for this? She said they need making money somehow.

Eventually, as I like where I live, I agreed to pay from now on but only if we sign a proper contract because this whole affair looks more like racket than civilised business.

Now sure what will be the outcome but I may have to do some inconvenient things like living without heat, going to court, or moving homes. I somehow suspect moving this account to Airtricity isn't an option as it's somewhat exclusive to this undercover BG Heat.

Yes, their bill is attached. Sorry for poor quality/huge size, it's due to bad print as well as bad scan. Reducing size makes it illegible.

Carawaystick

There's no ltd or teo in the company name
bord Gais heat energy supply are not listed on the CRO website under company or business name,
the meter number is suspiciously low.

I'd be very wary of dealing with them. You can always change gas supplier to another company like bord gais themselves or airtricity or flogas or others.

slimjimmc

Perhaps the mysterious Gas & Heat refer to Bord Gais Networks who supply the gas meter & infrastructure and to Bord Gais Energy who supply the actual gas.

I think since deregulation of the gas market you have a Bord Gais Networks account for the meter standing charge and a Bord Gais Energy account for the gas itself. Both items are charged on the same Bord Gais Energy bill. The separate accounts are there to separate gas supplier from the infrastructure.
From Bord Gais Networks

Moving Into A House With An Existing Gas Supply
If you are moving into a house or apartment that already has a natural gas supply, there are 3 different scenarios that you need to consider:
- Gas is already on, you just need to put the account into your name.
- There is a meter present but the gas is not switched on.
- There is gas but no meter fitted.
In each case you will need to contact a Natural Gas Supplier

That would explain why your bi-monthly bill was coming in at at least €8, you were paying the standing charge but because you had no Bord Gais Energy account your energy usage was never billed until now. That said, you still owe them for your gas usage but it may be difficult to determine what that usage was. When they do get a figure you should negotiate a repayment plan.

If the bill looks suspicious you should verify it with Bord Gais Customer Enquiries instead of ringing the number on the bill. There are many details on it, including the AIB account, which look different to my bill which was issued 1 day after yours (mine is from Dublin).

jahalpin

The bill looks a bit dodgy

The VAT number on the bill doesn't pass VAT number validation.

MagicSean

Definitely seems a bit dodge. Why not ask in After Hours if anyone has heard of them.

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's no ltd or teo in the company name

As a statutory company, I'm not sure if that applies to Bord Gáis.

MagicSean

Even if they are real, what are they selling? How do you sell heat to someone who already has gas? I'd find out exactly what you are paying for before you do anything.

Victor

.

From: Victor
Sent: 13/11/2010
To: info@bordgais.ie
Subject: Is "Bord Gáis Heat" a scam?

Hi,

I help run an internet bulletin board.

One user has come across "Bord Gáis Heat" demanding money for arrears. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055587588

A search of google throws up nothing except that thread and some dubious advertising listings.

I would be grateful if you could contact me.

Victor

From: info@bordgais.ie
Sent: 15/11/2010
To: Victor
Subject: Re: Your recent e-mail to Bord Gais Energy

WARNING: Please note that you are responsible for protecting the integrity of your e-mail account. Bord Gais Eireann is entitled to assume that e-mails emanating from your address have been sent by you, the account holder, and Bord Gais Eireann shall not be liable for acting on any instructions issued via your e-mail address where it transpires that such instructions were not sent by you.

Dear Victor,

Thank you for your recent e-mail to Bord Gais Energy.

In relation to the below email, I have also forwarded your query to my line manager and I hope to be able to come back with a definitive answer to your query shortly.

If you require any further assistance, do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Department at info@bordgais.ie or call us on 1850 632 632

Yours sincerely,

Simon Pierse
Customer Service Representative
____

Bord Gáis Energy
T: 1850 632 632
www.bordgaisenergy.ie

From: info@bordgais.ie (info@bordgais.ie)
Sent: 16 November 2010 11:10:17
To: Victor

WARNING: Please note that you are responsible for protecting the integrity of your e-mail account. Bord Gais Eireann is entitled to assume that e-mails emanating from your address have been sent by you, the account holder, and Bord Gais Eireann shall not be liable for acting on any instructions issued via your e-mail address where it transpires that such instructions were not sent by you.


Dear Victor,

Thank you for your recent e-mail to Bord Gais Energy.

In relation to the below email, I have checked this online thread and the customer does not mention their details so I cannot comment on this specific case.

We also have a sister company in the North under the name of Bord Gais Heat and Energy which may be the company to contact here on 01-6021068

Lastly the customer is welcome to contact us on the below number or email address and we will look into and deal with any concerns they have regarding the bills, deposit structure or collections procedures.

If you require any further assistance, do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Department at helpme@bordgais.ie or call us on 1850 632 632

Yours sincerely,

Simon Pierse
Customer Service Representative
____

Bord Gáis Energy
T: 1850 632 632
www.bordgaisenergy.ie

none

Hi Victor,

Thanks for that.

The thing is that I did have some previous correspondence with helpme@bordgais.ie and that's exactly what I did - I responsed to the old email including description of my new concern. Of course, I included a few other emails. bgeheat@bge.ie is the one printed on the bill.

What they did, well, nothing. Zilch. They were included on all those emails I exchanged with BG Heat Office Manager and no one responded. BG Heat Office Manager did respond at the beginning but my last mail probably puzzled/angered her so there was no email response. I think I must expect something in the mail box instead.

The good thing for me here is that if the real BG doesn't recognise that letterhead and the name (which can be derived from their response to you), I should most likely not be scared of any legal proceedings

Again, I really appreciate your help, Victor:)

edit: Just noticed that the number of my BG Heat Office Manager is the same as the one given for Bord Gais Heat and Energy in the North. Funny how a company registered in the North wants to extort some money from a person living in Dún Laoghaire

Victor

none wrote: »

The good thing for me here is that if the real BG doesn't recognise that letterhead and the name (which can be derived from their response to you)

I don't think thats what they are saying.

I think they are only saying that you have removed the account details and they don't know.

We may be in call centre drone territory (sorry, Simon).

blaz

Bord Gais Energy Heat supplies hot water, not gas. From my dealings with them it seems to be a one-person business and that one person is most of the time unavailable. It usually took multiple phone calls to reach anyone and emails were responded to in about a week.

danindub

Also having issues with Bord Gais heat, and yes, their main number looks to be direct dial to someone's phone ("i'm not available to take your call...?").

Left multiple voice mails over last couple of weeks, and send few emails. I'm yet to hear back.

As I suspect i'm being overcharged I'd say my best option is to cancel direct debit. The moment they stop getting money they will contact me

It appears that they are actually part of Dalkia rather than actual Board Gais.

sandrewge

I'm having the same problem! The bill for Feb and March is very high!! Did they also changed the meter in your block? I've just written a post explaining this problem here if you want to continue talking about this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72037580#post72037580

jaybeeveedub

well, from the bill you are being charged in cents per kiloWatt hours (c/kWh) only, which would imply that it is an electricity bill and not gas (gas bills charge per m3 (volume) of gas and then use a conversion factor to give a comparison in kWh)

so what type of heating system does your apartment have?

is it electrical... i.e. storage heaters... next switch off every appliance in your apartment except the storage heaters if they are there and go check how fast your electricity meter is spinning, now switch off the heaters and re-check the meter, if there is no change they are on a different circuit and may have a separate meter