Looks like Intel are set for a mass Involuntary Redundancy

Whippo

The end of September looks almost certain to spell the end of flash products out of Intel Ireland and up to 1000 jobs. Managers there are holding cards close to chest with regards to who is staying or going. Logic product may keep a few jobs back..... When is all this going to end ??

ongarite

Scary time for Intel Ireland at the moment alright.
300 people leaving this Friday and future of the remaining employees in Intel and its suppliers is very uncertain.

Costs have been cut very agressively in the hope of securing the next generation of processors but the problem is that is at least 2 years away and Intel China will ramp up next year doing the same products as Intel does in Ireland.

demon83

I must have missed this on the news. Did Intel make an announcement. Last I heard they were planning on increasing production in Leixlip.

Whippo

This wasn't on the news yet, heard from a friend in there that flash wafer starts cease WW29 and the final wafers will be out of Sort in WW40. There are no jobs in the Fab24...

ongarite

Thats similar to what I have heard. Orders up until end of July and after that nobody knows what will happen.

Pighead

IBM won't be too far behind them.

Whippo

Whats up with IBM?

Sleipnir

Lads, this sort unverified speculation is the sort of thing that can cause more uncertainty in a company's performance.

It's well known that journalists read boards.ie and it only takes one mention in a newspaper article to cause a meltdown in confidence. OP has a total of three posts and while I wouldn't hold that against anyone, speculation from a poster who has just joined and doesn't provide a source for the information is just starting a rumour mill.

Whippo, have you got a source for this?

Whippo

Ongarite, the writtings on the wall, no output = no job, I've been told that Fab24 is almost fully loaded and have enough heads to run the place.

Whippo

Sleipnir, I'm not going to reveal anyones name. But I will say that its going to affect some of my friends there, and thats where I heard from. I'm not a journalist. I guarantee you that. If its a rumour, it from the inside. But as said, the flash memory chips stop being produced work week 29 and thats a deffo...

demon83

I have a few friends who work for a contractor who is directly employed there and according to them all is well in Intel, Ireland seems to be very much in the companies future plans. Think OP is a bit misleading in that it mentions 1000 jobs to go. Thats a mass redundency of the Dell scale. How many even work there?

Tom Dunne

Whippo wrote: »

This wasn't on the news yet, heard from a friend in there that flash wafer starts cease WW29 and the final wafers will be out of Sort in WW40. There are no jobs in the Fab24...

Wild, unsubstantiated speculation.

Any proof, links, press releases, other than "I heard it from a mate?"

Very unhelpful in the current climate.

Origipolo

I'll try make this as simple as I can. Back near the beginning of this year Intel looked for 200-300 redundancies across IFO and Fab24. This target looks to have been reached. There are two parts to Intel as stated. Fab24 produces 300mm and looking for the next process. They have enough headcount to sustain the production they are at at the moment. Contractors are there retrofitting for the next process (if they get it and at that doesn't look likely until 2012 at the moment). IFO, produces flash memory product and logic chipsets. Contracts on this run out this year. They will not be producing any more flash memory come the start of September. There will be a small amount of chipset being produced up until next year. The vast majority of people in IFO cannot be transfered to Fab24 because they are fully staffed there as is. You can take it whatever way you want after that, present circumstances or whatever....

Whippo

I apologise if I appear to be scaremongering that wasn't intentional, I know there is a lot of job fear out there, sorry.

Origipolo

If anything does happen there, it will no be in the order of 1K people!

demon83

Just an update, was speaking to my friend who works there over the weekend. He basically repeated what was in the original post. Still just rumours but he has put his car up for sale as he does not see any good news coming out of it.
He said that one of the Intel head management is coming over from the States in a few weeks to brief managenement in Leixlip and would expect an annoucemnet then.

Sinderella

Whippo, you so obviously work in Intel. You "talk" like someone that works there, I know that because I worked there for years myself. Just spit it out! :rolleyes:

I hope no more jobs go. A lot of ppl have been there a long long time.

demon83

At the end of the day the manufacturing part of intel could always be done somewhere else for cheaper so it would make sense that they would move it to a lower cost country.

Sinderella

It will make sense eventually demon83, when what Intel Ireland are currently running becomes outdated (as is obviously happening with one of the older Leixlip factories)

Until then, it makes no sense for them to move production when they have millions invested in Ireland. They won't suddenly close the place, it will be gradual. But if they want cheap production, they just won't invest any more in Ireland. That won't be news to anyone that works there though, will it really?

To answer your earlier question, last I heard there were about 4000 people employed in the Leixlip site

Tom Dunne

demon83 wrote: »

At the end of the day the manufacturing part of intel could always be done somewhere else for cheaper so it would make sense that they would move it to a lower cost country.

Not true.

Intel has a policy (based on a US law, I believe) that expressly forbids the manufacture of the latest generation of microprocessors in countries outside of the US/Europe/Israel. The reason being, the lack of intellectual property laws in the other countries.

So, the plant in China is actually two generations behind the latest manufacturing process.

Sinderella

Tom Dunne, do you think we are the cheapest in "US/Europe/Israel" ?

Not by a long way!

Tom Dunne

Sinderella wrote: »

Tom Dunne, do you think we are the cheapest in "US/Europe/Israel" ?

Not by a long way!

Nothing to do with being cheap. Energy/transport/labour costs are high, but look at corporation tax. Not sure what it is in Israel, but I doubt it is 12.5%.

Plus, Intel have made a significant investment in Ireland, not just physical buildings, but in people, and more specifically, knowledge.

There is a fundamental difference between Intel and the likes of Dell. You cannot simply upsticks and move a fab over to a low-cost economy. These factories take up to two years to get them up and running (note: that's after they have been built). Plus, you have the associated training of new employees - it takes on average 6-9 months to train people for some jobs in Intel. And along with that, you have require a massive number of people to run a factory. I recall one statistic in Intel that went something along the lines of for every one technician inside the fab producing the product, you have three support personnel. That's a lot of people. And these are not entry-level assembly-line jobs, these are jobs requiring qualifications.

It is cheaper to gut a fab and install new equipment than it is to build a new one from scratch in a foreign country.

So it's not as black and white as people may think.

niceirishfella

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So it's not as back and white as people may think.

Back and wha?

Victor McDade

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Not true.

Intel has a policy (based on a US law, I believe) that expressly forbids the manufacture of the latest generation of microprocessors in countries outside of the US/Europe/Israel. The reason being, the lack of intellectual property laws in the other countries.

So, the plant in China is actually two generations behind the latest manufacturing process.

That's true. Fab24 still is in pole position to be awarded the new process ahead of the rest of the capable fabs (so they're telling us), but as someone said earlier, the earliest it looks like happening here is 2012. The original plan was that Dalian (China) was going to pick up the end of what Fab24 were making as we ramped up the new process. But with this new process being pushed farther out, China is sort of in limbo. Intel have an agreement to manufacture "something" in China but they have yet to make an announcement on what that will be. But as Tom Dunne said, it will be an earlier process due to IP laws.

So fab24 looks safe enough. I don't know enough about IFO to comment on them but I know a lot or lads in there and it's quiet, but they are refitting the fab for the next process at the minute, to save time if/when Ireland gets the contract.

Sinderella

Tom Dunne, I understand what you're saying which is why I said they wouldn't just shut down a fab and up sticks to somewhere else. It will be a gradual process.

Yes, it may be cheaper to upgrade an existing fab but you have to remember, other fabs have already been closed in US and elsewhere. If it's cheaper to refurbish there, they will. They are a business, not a charity. If it's cheaper to refurb in the US, don't kid yourself that they won't just because they have invested in the people of Ireland. They have invested in lots of other nations too. They will go where it makes most montary sense to go. Sorry if that's not waht you want to hear.

On a sidenote, don't underestimate what Obama will do to keep companies pumping money into the US either. Our 12.5% CT could look pretty limp before you know it.

Tom Dunne

Sinderella wrote: »

other fabs have already been closed in US and elsewhere. If it's cheaper to refurbish there, they will. They are a business, not a charity. If it's cheaper to refurb in the US, don't kid yourself that they won't just because they have invested in the people of Ireland. They have invested in lots of other nations too. They will go where it makes most montary sense to go.

All of the fabs in the US that were closed were either 6 inch or 8 inch. You don't see them closing 12 inch fabs (correct me if I am wrong here). IFO has the double-whammy of making flash and being an 8 inch factory.

Also, there is something about the import duty into the EU. I don't recall the specifics of it, but basically, there is some tax exemption for Intel for making the microprocessor within the EU when they go to sell it within the EU.

Sinderella wrote: »

Sorry if that's not waht you want to hear.

Say what now? Makes no odds to me.

MrMatisse

I hope nothing on this scale happens. This would ruin leixlip.

Sinderella

Tom Dunne wrote: »

All of the fabs in the US that were closed were either 6 inch or 8 inch. You don't see them closing 12 inch fabs (correct me if I am wrong here). IFO has the double-whammy of making flash and being an 8 inch factory.

You're missing my point. If intel want to refurb, Irish employees should not have their heart set on them refurbing the soon to be closed Irish fab. It might not happen. I hope it does, but it might not, they could just as easily refurb one of their US closures.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Say what now? Makes no odds to me.

lol! ok...


savemejebas, I don't know if F24 are still in pole position to get the new technology. Again, I hope they do get it, but again, I think too many people are counting their chickens.

Intel Ireland also announced earlier this year that there would be no job loses in Ireland this year, about 6weeks before they then announced >300 job loses. And now this.
So call me suspicious lol!

ongarite

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Not true.

Intel has a policy (based on a US law, I believe) that expressly forbids the manufacture of the latest generation of microprocessors in countries outside of the US/Europe/Israel. The reason being, the lack of intellectual property laws in the other countries.

So, the plant in China is actually two generations behind the latest manufacturing process.

The problem for Intel Ireland is that it is 3 generations behind the latest manufacturing process which slots right into the process that FAB68 in China will be doing, starting early next year.

The next generation after that is a long way off especially with current slump in electronics sector worldwide and consumer spending.
Intel FABs in America will get the first 2 FABs for this process and Intel Ireland/Israel fighting it out for the last of the 3 FABs.

If Intel does choose Ireland for 3rd FAB, it won't be the old IFO FABs, more than likely FAB24 & 24-2 leaving lots of people out of work from direct to indirect employees.

TheNog

Whippo wrote: »

The end of September looks almost certain to spell the end of flash products out of Intel Ireland and up to 1000 jobs. Managers there are holding cards close to chest with regards to who is staying or going. Logic product may keep a few jobs back..... When is all this going to end ??

Whippo wrote: »

This wasn't on the news yet, heard from a friend in there that flash wafer starts cease WW29 and the final wafers will be out of Sort in WW40. There are no jobs in the Fab24...

Whippo wrote: »

Ongarite, the writtings on the wall, no output = no job, I've been told that Fab24 is almost fully loaded and have enough heads to run the place.

Whippo wrote: »

Sleipnir, I'm not going to reveal anyones name. But I will say that its going to affect some of my friends there, and thats where I heard from. I'm not a journalist. I guarantee you that. If its a rumour, it from the inside. But as said, the flash memory chips stop being produced work week 29 and thats a deffo...

You no more heard this from a friend. You are an employee/contractor, an ex-employee or like me a former contractor. You know far too much of Intel's products than the ordinary layman that you are trying so hard to display.

Sinderella wrote: »

Whippo, you so obviously work in Intel. You "talk" like someone that works there, I know that because I worked there for years myself. Just spit it out! :rolleyes:.

+1

Victor McDade

Sinderella wrote: »

savemejebas, I don't know if F24 are still in pole position to get the new technology. Again, I hope they do get it, but again, I think too many people are counting their chickens.

Intel Ireland also announced earlier this year that there would be no job loses in Ireland this year, about 6weeks before they then announced >300 job loses. And now this.
So call me suspicious lol!

I know!! Craig Barrett assured RTE that Ireland would be fine and at the same time O'Hara was pretty much telling IFO to expect job cuts.

The official line is that we're still number one for P1270, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Obama keeps it in America as he said he would try to do before he was elected. I won't be taking out a mortgage on the strength of the place!

leeroybrown

As at least one person has mentioned in the previous posts, the big question at the moment is what fab will Intel upgrade. If they decide that a (massively expensive) re-fit of IFO isn't cost effective then a big question mark starts to appear over all those jobs imminently. If they decide that a (less expensive) re-fit of Fab 24 is the right decision then it doesn't really do much for a lot of the jobs directly coupled to IFO.

In my view they will continue to manufacture in Ireland for the foreseeable future as it fulfils their political requirements to have a large EU based production centre. I'm just not convinced that it will be enough of a political requirement to maintain two major fabs here.

Whippo

D-day is next week, announcment definitely going to be made. Not going to look for 1k as thought, 300 more like an accurate figure..

mukki

Whippo wrote: »

D-day is next week, announcment definitely going to be made. Not going to look for 1k as thought, 300 more like an accurate figure..

ha ha they caught you Whippo, did you have a good "the end is nigh" chat over breakfast in the ir4 canteen

Whippo

mukki wrote: »

ha ha they caught you Whippo, did you have a good "the end is nigh" chat over breakfast in the ir4 canteen

Mukki, from what I hear, the end is nigh forever in that place....

demon83

So where do you see these 300 staff being cut from?
Has anybody else close to Intel heard this figure?

IvyTheTerrible

Whippo wrote: »

D-day is next week, announcment definitely going to be made. Not going to look for 1k as thought, 300 more like an accurate figure..

That's interesting, because they issued a really positive profit report today or yesterday, where they exceeded Wall Street expectations and are thought to be bouncing back. Could this change the outlook?

bitethebullet

I heard the rumour an announcement will be made this week...but there's so much rumours floating around this place at the moment.

Whippo

IFO, where the flash products are made. This week is the last week that the flash product was started in the factory, mostly manufacturing people from what I hear.

Whippo

bitethebullet wrote: »

I heard the rumour an announcement will be made this week...but there's so much rumours floating around this place at the moment.

I was told that some supervisors have already told people but the official announcement is next week. Same package as vsp, but theres something about an additional 3 months pay on top.

bitethebullet

Yeah heard it is this day week

Whippo

bitethebullet wrote: »

Yeah heard it is this day week

I wish it wasn't true, I know a few lads in the IFO fab and a few in the sorting area. As far as I know they are seperate areas and even seperate departments. So if there are 300 to go in in IFO does that mean there will be even more if the sort area is taken into consideration?

bitethebullet

couldn't say

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Please start a new thread if any news is actually announced. For now, this thread is closed.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Okay - ye were right - and exactly so with the comments on three hundred job losses (sadly right for the people who work there)

Announcement made an hour ago:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0721/breaking70.htm

Still think it was right to lock initially because we don't want to be worrying people before any announcement was made.

Would anyone have an opinion on whether we should allow speculation like this on possible job losses?

x in the city

why shouldnt we speculate, its not like it will change big wigs at Intel on what they want to do.

Them jobs at Intel were always likely to go in fairness, so I would say the people there already knew the drill.

leeroybrown

There's another fairly active thread here that goes into the details of the current round of redundancies.

Personally speaking, I don't see a major issue with some informed speculation so long as the reasoning is fairly open. You do have a potential problem though when a new user turns up and starts a thread about a potential 1000 job losses. Without some clear reasoning it could look like scaremongering. It's a difficult one from a moderation point of view as unlike some of use, most posters and quite likely all the mods have only vague knowledge of Intel. I think that the general tone of the thread and the direction it's taking is probably the best way for someone to make a call on it.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

leeroybrown wrote: »

There's another fairly active thread here that goes into the details of the current round of redundancies.

Personally speaking, I don't see a major issue with some informed speculation so long as the reasoning is fairly open. You do have a potential problem though when a new user turns up and starts a thread about a potential 1000 job losses. Without some clear reasoning it could look like scaremongering. It's a difficult one from a moderation point of view as unlike some of use, most posters and quite likely all the mods have only vague knowledge of Intel. I think that the general tone of the thread and the direction it's taking is probably the best way for someone to make a call on it.

Ah cheers, didn't notice the other thread. I'll close this one again!