Which to buy: 04 Merc 320CDI or BMW 530d?

budfox

All,

Any thoughts folks?

I'm trying to decide between a Merc 320CDI and a BMW 330

Here's the Merc:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/320-CDI-/200910192075477/advert?channel=CARS

It has all the kit that I'd like in the E class including the pano roof...

Here's the Beemer..

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/530d/200908191912874/advert?channel=CARS

Any views on what the cars are worth?

What would you offer for a cash deal?

Which will hold its value better

Appreciate any opinions..

many thanks, A

Biro

The 5-series will be more in demand, so might hold it's value a little better, but the Irish scare away from large engines so neither will be easy to get rid of in a hurry.
The 5-series will handle better, the Merc will be more comfortable. Depends on yourself really! Which do you want? Test drive both anyway.

budfox

thanks mate...I drove both and for sure the beemer was a bit more sporty...the merc more comfortable on a long drive...

Also, I'm thinking that with the new E class out it will look out of date fairly soon (OK, it is six years old) whereas the beemer might last just that bit longer..

You're right though..there's a ton of them around...

I'm astounded by the huge difference in prices on carzone between highest/lowest...

A

Biro

Be kinda careful in choosing, and avoid 3 or 4 owner cars, as everyone has had their cut in it. These larger diesels have a nice delivery of torque very low down in the rev range, and feel pretty quick. The negative of that though is that owners tend to think of them as performance wagons and drive them as such. So be careful of abused examples! Auto gearboxes aren't cheap!
One other thing that might be a factor is due to our silly road tax system, the 530d is just under the 3,000cc and the 320CDI is over it, meaning around €400 more to tax the Merc per year. Pity. I always kind of liked the E-Class, nice inside too. You could consider the E270CDI, I know not all Mercs of late follow the engine size with the name, but I think that is a 2.7! Open to correction.

Ferris

The inline diesel engines (4cyl and 6cyl pre '05) in the Mercs are getting a reputation for melting their injector seals into the cylinder head. Getting them out requires the head to come off which is $$$. Its been nicknamed the 'black death' by merc mechanics.

Its happened to a friends da who runs a 320cdi as a taxi.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=627

Reports of leaking high pressure diesel pumps on 320CDIs. Fluid leaks onto cooling system pipes which then also need to be replaced. 'Straight 6' 3.2 litre CDI engine had a common problem with premature injector failure at as little as 60,000 miles. Replacement injectors are about £300-£400 each, plus fitting and calibrating to the ECU - an expensive repair if they all need replaced at about the same time. Another common problem with the earlier engine is apparent failure of the injector 'fire seals', which allows soot and carbon to basically 'weld' the injector into the cylinder head. If a faulty injector cannot be removed then the cylinder head would have to be replaced.

Buy the beemer, they're an unreal car all things considered.

Traumadoc

I have the 530d- great car full stop.

Zonda999

budfox wrote: »

thanks mate...I drove both and for sure the beemer was a bit more sporty...the merc more comfortable on a long drive...

Also, I'm thinking that with the new E class out it will look out of date fairly soon (OK, it is six years old) whereas the beemer might last just that bit longer..

You're right though..there's a ton of them around...

I'm astounded by the huge difference in prices on carzone between highest/lowest...

A

True, the bmw, does look a bit more modern but that makes f**k all difference once a car is replaced. The E class has already been replaced and the 5 series replacement is imminent. One of the next gen 5 series, the GT has already been aunched. Anyway, once both have been replaced, attitudes towards both them will be the same, theyre both old models.

I, personally would go for the beemer, but in no way would i think that e class is an inferior car.

budfox

thanks folks...some good advice...I didn't think about the road tax difference...it's a fair few quid...

I think the Merc is imported too....

I note a big difference with the spec's....

Oh, the VRT thing is doing my head in. I don't know how the Irish dealers can import cars, make some margin and compete in this market when the OMSP base price that the revenue use has no bearing with the market price....

galwaytt

both cars nice. Both cars over-priced, as well.

Merc nicer inside, but as said, more fragile. I wonder does it suffer the same gearbox/cooler woes as the smaller 220cdi, too ? Pity, it's a nicer car, but I chickened out on buying a cdi last year, for the same reason.........

budfox

thanks mate....

what do you think theyre worth?

L-M

I think the Merc is a tad too far over priced, so much so I wouldn't even bother bargaining as you probably won't get them down much.

This seems better value, it's cheaper and two years newer,
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/320-AUTO/200921192848163/advert?channel=CARS

Between those two, based on looks, I'd be picking the E class. The 530 looks tarty with the Spoiler and the stuck on M badge.

If the two were reasonably priced, I'd still pick the E class as I think they are cracking cars. The nicest I came across was a wine E320 Avantgarde with a Cream interior. It really was a cracking. Nice deep sounding engine too with plenty of power.

bazz26

That boot spoiler on the 530d is absolutely horrible. Looks like a Halfords special designed for a Civic. Makes you wonder what the previous owner was smoking when they had it put on.

Regarding which one to buy, I just would not have enough confidence in the E Class of that vintage to buy it. I would go for the 530d, just not that particular one.

Voodoomelon

As a general rule I stay away from the first year of production of a new model, in this case the 2004 E60 BMW. I'd go for a later model. And as others have said, both are overpriced. Most notably the Merc, over €22k for a 6 year old car? You could get a super S-class for that money.

_Buck Rogers

Both cars in my opinion are just status symbols and are both over rated as a car. Obviously not saying they aint nice but i think you can do MUCH better for that money.

EPM

_Buck Rogers wrote: »

Both cars in my opinion are just status symbols and are both over rated as a car. Obviously not saying they aint nice but i think you can do MUCH better for that money.

Like?

beams

EPM wrote: »

Like?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/GS300/LIKE-NEW/200922192960226/advert?channel=CARS

...it'd be cheaper in the long run

unkel

beams wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/GS300/LIKE-NEW/200922192960226/advert?channel=CARS

Are you having a laugh?

Both the Mercedes and the BMW are far superior cars compared to the Lexus in every way except maybe for reliability.

Ferris

unkel wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

Both the Mercedes and the BMW are far superior cars compared to the Lexus in every way except maybe for reliability.

The taxi driver that mentioned who is having troubles with the 320cdi used to have a Lexus LS400 and he reakons that the Lexus cost him less money all in (even at 23mpg), was more comfortable, quieter and of course more reliable.

OP should still go for a 530d however.;)

Biro

unkel wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

Both the Mercedes and the BMW are far superior cars compared to the Lexus in every way except maybe for reliability.

I certainly wouldn't say "far superior cars compared to the Lexus in every way". I'd accept any arguement for them being superior in certain aspects, but in no one way is either the BMW or the Merc "far superior". The latest GS300 really is an excellent car. The engine is very good, it's more comfortable than the 5 series, and probably handles better than the Merc. I'd say it has it's own advantages over the other two. Personally I'd have the 5-series, but there's no denying that more comfort can be found else where. The GS300 is certainly under-rated. Ironically, the IS220 I think is over rated, as was the IS200.

daRobot

I'd go for the Bmw personally.

However, the example quoted is way overpriced.

You should be able to pick up a 05' 535D for about 25k or less, so that'd be the one i'd go for anyway.

Bearcat

here goes....i was in the same market not long ago and picked up a one owner 530d 04 like the one your looking at for 18k so bargain mate on the price. The one thing that goes on the bm is the MAF's....also the air filter on these cars is a kunt to change and like mine it'll have been signed off on the service history by a bm garage but in reality never changed.

I also owner a e220cdi 04 for a while...the most boring car in gods creation and the switch gear inside the merc was pure flimsy.

Buy the 530d...its a great car......haggle like the devil on that price even though it's low mileage. If you buy it, forget about the stamps in the book, change the air/oil/fuel and polen filters likewise the oil....and your off. Also the auto trans is a smooth piece of kit...if yours is jerky, avoid.

BM by a country mile....and if your bold you can put a plug and play tuning kit into it like a tunit module....car goes like stink!!

beams

unkel wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

Both the Mercedes and the BMW are far superior cars compared to the Lexus in every way except maybe for reliability.

I'd have to agree with biro on this... far superior badge kudos maybe...

Johnboy Mac

I know we are slightly off topic regarding a Lexus. But if I was in the market for a petrol motor of 3ltr's plus (I'm excluding the ugly IS250) and was on a tight budget I'd buy the Lexus just for the superior build quality over both the MB & BMW and not worry about losing on some driving dynamics.

unkel

Biro wrote: »

The latest GS300 really is an excellent car.

It's a mediocre car according to parkers, who are a bit more objective than you or me

GS - 3.5 stars
Merc - 4 stars
BMW - 4.5 stars

Says it all really...

I'm the first one to admit that some aspects of the Lexus are better than the others, like reliability and the way the dealer treats you, but overall, the others are far better cars.

veetwin

Am I the only one that thinks that 23,600 miles on a 04 530D in the OP's choices was suspiciously low. Thats less than 5k miles a year. These are cars traditionally bought by high milers. In response to the original question I think anyone under 40 should go for the 530D, just not that one.

Biro

unkel wrote: »

It's a mediocre car according to parkers, who are a bit more objective than you or me

GS - 3.5 stars
Merc - 4 stars
BMW - 4.5 stars

Says it all really...

I'm the first one to admit that some aspects of the Lexus are better than the others, like reliability and the way the dealer treats you, but overall, the others are far better cars.

Parkers shmarkers! Autocar for the best reviews! (aside from their Ford and BMW bias!)

unkel

Biro wrote: »

Parkers shmarkers!

Biro wrote: »

Autocar for the best reviews!

Ok then. Here's Autocars reviews:

autocar wrote:

Now arguments over its styling have dried up, the 5-Series remains one of, if not, the best prestige saloons around. Great dynamics and scores of technical highlights, most of which add to its appeal, the 5-Series is simply an excellent car in any guise.

The E-class may not be the most fun large executive car, but it’s by far the easiest to live with. Its ride and refinement are cosseting and the cabin is well appointed and very spacious. At the same time, the estate is the biggest and best in its class.

There's no doubting the build quality or the basic excellence of the GS dynamically. In short, it offers a nice blend of performance and economy, especially in the case of the 450h hybrid. Yet it’s not good enough to be class leading. Close, but no cigar.

Summary: if you want an estate, the Merc is best. If you want a saloon, the BMW is best. If you don't want the best, get the Lexus

dodzy

veetwin wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that 23,600 miles on a 04 530D in the OP's choices was suspiciously low........

+1. Approach with caution If it's legit, then in my eyes, it's a no brainer. Either way, I'm jealous :P

Biro

unkel wrote: »

Ok then. Here's Autocars reviews:



Summary: if you want an estate, the Merc is best. If you want a saloon, the BMW is best. If you don't want the best, get the Lexus

I'd pay more attention to the words "dynamic" and "excellence" side by side, and also "performance" and "economy" are blended there too. British car jorno's never break from the known class leaders unless the rival is far better. I'd say the "close, but no cigar" is more like "damn close!". Plus it's something different on the roads.

unkel

Interesting interpretation, Biro

Close but no cigar for the Lexus. Story of their life. There hasn't been a cigar in 20 years of Lexus. The cigar is for the Merc and BMW.

Johnboy Mac

unkel wrote: »

Interesting interpretation, Biro

Close but no cigar for the Lexus. Story of their life. There hasn't been a cigar in 20 years of Lexus. The cigar is for the Merc and BMW.

Yeah, but bear in mind that all the car magazines are talking about brand new cars, which a lot of these will be purchased by companies and owned for only 1-3 years, it's whole different ball game if buying used privately. Who gets the cigar then? Lexus I'd bet.

Eoin

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Yeah, but bear in mind that all the car magazines are talking about brand new cars, which a lot of these will be purchased by companies and owned for only 1-3 years, it's whole different ball game if buying used privately. Who gets the cigar then? Lexus I'd bet.

I don't follow you - you think the Lexus will be more appealing to a 2nd hand buyer?

Johnboy Mac

eoin wrote: »

I don't follow you - you think the Lexus will be more appealing to a 2nd hand buyer?

No possibility not. But from a build quality & reliability point of view, maintenance costs and customer service yes.

Eoin

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

No possibility not. But from a build quality & reliability point of view, maintenance costs and customer service yes.

Oh right, I see what you mean. Yes - reliability, I'd pick the Lexus. I was considering the old GS instead of the old 5 series, as it's not a bad car, but it was just such an uninvolving drive so I didn't go for it - though I could definitely see how it would appeal to lots of people. As someone said, you'd feel like you're going to fall out of the car on a corner.

I think there are people out there who want a nice exec car and specifically don't want a BMW or Merc. But if you want more of a driver's car, I'd imagine the 5 series is the best choice. I've not driven the latest models of those cars, so can't comment any more than what I've read in the reviews.

Johnboy Mac

eoin wrote: »

Oh right, I see what you mean. Yes - reliability, I'd pick the Lexus. I was considering the old GS instead of the old 5 series, as it's not a bad car, but it was just such an uninvolving drive so I didn't go for it - though I could definitely see how it would appeal to lots of people. As someone said, you'd feel like you're going to fall out of the car on a corner.

I think there are people out there who want a nice exec car and specifically don't want a BMW or Merc. But if you want more of a driver's car, I'd imagine the 5 series is the best choice. I've not driven the latest models of those cars, so can't comment any more than what I've read in the reviews.

Eoin, I think the truth of the matter is there are a lot of people wanting to drive a used premium brand car like MB's & BMW's etc (usually buying used means can't afford to buy new or can't justify the new price) and mostly for the badge at the 'right' price but fail to take into account that these cars are expensive to maintain with labour costs at some main dealers hitting €160 per hour. Thus the better the build quility the less maintenance required thus less running costs. And being honest a lot of people buying say 5 series wouldn't know the real dynamic differences between it and a E Class or a GS bar maybe one was a bit more comfortable than the other. Personally I be happier to be at a loss of some chassis focus but possibily gain some extra comfort in a used 4/5/6 year old Lexus than a BM.

Biro

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Eoin, I think the truth of the matter is there are a lot of people wanting to drive a used premium brand car like MB's & BMW's etc and mostly for the badge at the 'right' price but fail to take into account that these cars are expensive to maintain with labour costs at some main dealers hitting €160 per hour. Thus the better the build quility the less maintenance required thus less running costs. And being honest a lot of people buying say 5 series wouldn't know the real dynamic differences between it and a E Class or a GS bar maybe one was a bit more comfortable than the other.

I'd agree with this. The majority of people haven't a clue. The term "chassis dynamics" means about as much to them as active yaw control!

robtri

if it was me... I would have the BMW.... mind you for 5k less money you could get this diesel... same year and its a BMW as well

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/DIESEL-B/200923193036182/advert?channel=CARS

a nice 7 series full loaded with toys.... with money left over for tax and ins

unkel

Biro wrote: »

I'd agree with this. The majority of people haven't a clue.

Perhaps in the states, where the roads are straight and the people want comfort and reliability over anything else. Lexus sells well there

I reckon you're underestimating the typical buyer of a new 5 series or E class in this country or anywhere in europe really. I'd say a lot of them test drive at least both before buying either car.

Johnboy Mac

unkel wrote: »

Perhaps in the states, where the roads are straight and the people want comfort and reliability over anything else. Lexus sells well there

I reckon you're underestimating the typical buyer of a new 5 series or E class in this country or anywhere in europe really. I'd say a lot of them test drive at least both before buying either car.

But the topic is on used cars...................different ball game.

unkel

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

But the topic is on used cars...................different ball game.

Good point. Still, we are talking about cars only 5 years old (still the current model) most likely with a full service history and as reliable as a new car. And we have a substantial budget of >€20k. A typical buyer would be a bit more demanding than looking for comfort.

Now if the budget was <€3k and there was no service history I'd buy a comfy relia-boat like a Honda or a Lexus over any Merc or BMW too

Biro

unkel wrote: »

Perhaps in the states, where the roads are straight and the people want comfort and reliability over anything else. Lexus sells well there

I reckon you're underestimating the typical buyer of a new 5 series or E class in this country or anywhere in europe really. I'd say a lot of them test drive at least both before buying either car.

I'd put a wager on the Lexus being a better handling car than the E-Class.
And I don't think I do underestimate the typical buyer of the 5-series and E-class. Money doesn't buy knowledge! Half of them probably had a 1.4 Golf as a first car.

unkel

Biro wrote: »

I'd put a wager on the Lexus being a better handling car than the E-Class.

Any review I've read said the E-class handles better than the GS. I drove a W211 myself - one of the first into the country and I was very impressed with the handling. Radical improvements over the W210, which was more of a comfy boat, although the handling wasn't that bad for a car that size. But anyway, anyone that has handling as a high priority would choose the 5-series, I think it is safe to say we agree on that?

Johnboy Mac

unkel wrote: »

Any review I've read said the E-class handles better than the GS. I drove a W211 myself - one of the first into the country and I was very impressed with the handling. Radical improvements over the W210, which was more of a comfy boat, although the handling wasn't that bad for a car that size. But anyway, anyone that has handling as a high priority would choose the 5-series, I think it is safe to say we agree on that?

I reckon your now splitting hairs in the real world when compairing handling between a used E Class and a GS. But if you can justify buying the more unreliable and more expensive car to maintain because it's handling is marginaly better in every day use fair enough.

Biro

unkel wrote: »

Any review I've read said the E-class handles better than the GS. I drove a W211 myself - one of the first into the country and I was very impressed with the handling. Radical improvements over the W210, which was more of a comfy boat, although the handling wasn't that bad for a car that size. But anyway, anyone that has handling as a high priority would choose the 5-series, I think it is safe to say we agree on that?

Very safe!