Is Taylor's dominance harming the game??

Evolution Enter

Taylor, he's the greatest player ever to step up to the oche, he's the biggest name in the sport, and he is one of the biggest reasons that darts is now as popular as it is!

But is he now holding the sport back? I often think to myself that Kirk Shepherd brought an awful lot to the game a few years ago by making the world final, an unknown qualifier making it to the biggest game of the year, it captured the publics imagination and gave the impression that darts really was a game that is accessible to one and all. The media coverage of the fairytale story shone more light on the growing popularity of the sport.

It happened because of a Taylor slump though, and since Taylor bounced back stronger and more dominant than ever, not even the best pro's can get near him.

The UK open proved this to me as I listened to the comments around the bar counter. Everyone was glued to each match, except for the Taylor matches that were 'foregone conclusions'. His 115 averages have now become boring, where as players averaging mid nineties against each other are the only thing offering excitement.

Osborne at 3-0 had everyone hoping for an upset, but once that changed to 9-3, everyone lost interest in watching Taylor lifting another trophy, especially as Taylor speaks more about money now than he does about trophys. His tattoos should read 'Power and Dollars'!

With the question recently asked "how can snooker capture some of darts popularity', another question must be asked, "How can darts maintain it's popularity?"

The truth is, it's lost it's competitiveness. Taylor, unless suffering a dramatic 20 point drop in form like seen against King, simply is unbeatable. Wade, at world number 2, recorded his highest season average of around 108 one night in the premier league, compare that to Taylor's entire tournament average at the UK open of 106

So......has it got to the point where the Power is doing more harm than good??

iseethelight

I agree to a certain extent. I too was in a darts pub over the weekend and saw first hand the apathy towards Taylors matches. However its very difficult to criticise someone for being too good. Surely its up to other players to challenge more strongly which Wade and King to name but 2 seem to be doing.

I do have some serious issues with skys Taylor bias. If he looses its because he doesn't play well. Never is credit given to the other player for his performance or to the fact they may have disrupted Taylors rhythm. A prime example was last night when Osbourne went 3-0 up they said Taylor wasn't white hot. In fact he was averaging 104 at that stage. No credit given to Osbourne for matching that and taking his chances. This is a serious issues other players have to recognized and commended for their efforts.

ratinakeg

iseethelight wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent. I too was in a darts pub over the weekend and saw first hand the apathy towards Taylors matches. However its very difficult to criticise someone for being too good. Surely its up to other players to challenge more strongly which Wade and King to name but 2 seem to be doing.

I do have some serious issues with skys Taylor bias. If he looses its because he doesn't play well. Never is credit given to the other player for his performance or to the fact they may have disrupted Taylors rhythm. A prime example was last night when Osbourne went 3-0 up they said Taylor wasn't white hot. In fact he was averaging 104 at that stage. No credit given to Osbourne for matching that and taking his chances. This is a serious issues other players have to recognized and commended for their efforts.

Well said mate! How come this issue wasn't raised when Taylor didn't win the Premier League? I must say the man is too good most of the time but it's always great to see him lose. The UK Open is a totally unique event where you see loads of upsets every year. I'll make my opinion after the next two tournaments as I can't really judge it after the Uk Open to be honest.

Evolution Enter

Well if fairness to Wade, Barney, and the other top players, averaging 115 regularly now isn't something you can expect top players to do.

Wade is 26, it's taken Taylor this long to get as good as he is, so nobody can expect wade to get near Taylor consistantly for a while.

Barney was the one that was supposed to be able to put it up to Taylor, but after a good sequence of results against Taylor, has since fallen apart!!

115 average means he's averaging two major doubles out of three darts every visit

Kingp35

That's a tough question. Personally I think that the general viewer (especially English) likes to watch Taylor because of all the glitz and glamour that surrounds him. It's kind of like the general football fan loves to watch Brazil play. There can be no doubt that Taylor is the reason that Darts is so popular right now and he is also the reason why the standard has improved so much. To put it simply players HAVE to get better to get anywhere near beating the man.

The flip side is that he is almost expected to win every game he plays and he usually does and easily. This doesn't make for good viewing, in fact it makes for boring viewing to the likes of us lads who tend to watch every dart thrown. He does make tournaments a little more boring but he has also made the standard at tournaments better which make the ther games better if that makes any sense.

Personally, even though I don't particularly like the man, I think he is still a benefit to the sport because of the people he attracts to the sport. It's us hardcore darts fans that are starting to find it all a little boring.

Evolution Enter

I dunno, even my Ma and my fiance find his matches boring now, and they were glued to other matches.

paulcorr

Kingp35 wrote: »

That's a tough question. Personally I think that the general viewer (especially English) likes to watch Taylor because of all the glitz and glamour that surrounds him. It's kind of like the general football fan loves to watch Brazil play. There can be no doubt that Taylor is the reason that Darts is so popular right now and he is also the reason why the standard has improved so much. To put it simply players HAVE to get better to get anywhere near beating the man.

The flip side is that he is almost expected to win every game he plays and he usually does and easily. This doesn't make for good viewing, in fact it makes for boring viewing to the likes of us lads who tend to watch every dart thrown. He does make tournaments a little more boring but he has also made the standard at tournaments better which make the ther games better if that makes any sense.

Personally, even though I don't particularly like the man, I think he is still a benefit to the sport because of the people he attracts to the sport. It's us hardcore darts fans that are starting to find it all a little boring.

You find it boring yet when there is a chance to get him to do an exhibition everyone is over the moon cant wait to see him or play him can you imagine darts today if it wasnt for phil taylor as for skys bias why talk to losers all the time its because of taylor that there is so much darts on sky tv if people are going to complain when he wins all the time dont watch it but i bet you the next time darts is on tv and taylor is playing your watching because i know i will

Evolution Enter

That's not the point I'm trying to make!!

Taylor is the biggest name in darts because of how good he is, and nobody has a problem with that. But can you name another sport where someone enjoys such dominance. If Barney was firing on all cylinders then Taylor wouldn't be winning everything

Lets face it, Wade has never won a trophy and face Taylor in the same tournament so I still say he's proven nothing

I just think it would do the sport alot of good if a few more names found their way onto a major trophy

paulcorr

Evolution Enter wrote: »

That's not the point I'm trying to make!!

Taylor is the biggest name in darts because of how good he is, and nobody has a problem with that. But can you name another sport where someone enjoys such dominance. If Barney was firing on all cylinders then Taylor wouldn't be winning everything

Lets face it, Wade has never won a trophy and face Taylor in the same tournament so I still say he's proven nothing

I just think it would do the sport alot of good if a few more names found their way onto a major trophy

but do you not think these players are good enough or is it the min they see there drawn against taylor they bottle it osbourne yesterday would of won from 3-0 up against anyone else but phil taylor how many players have played taylor been ahead and lost or had numerous darts at doubles to beat him i bet if you went back and checked you would see there have been lots so why cant they finish him off is it taylor is too good or there just not good enough

padr81

No, Taylor is for the good of the game. he constantly raises the bar and every sport has had a Phil Taylor, whether is Ali, Federer, Hendry, Pele.

Take snooker for example someone comes along whose the greatest ever in Steve Davis, he dominates for awhile (not as long as Taylor) raises the bar and eventually someone better comes along and raises it further ala Stephen Hendry.

In the 80's people said Bristow was the best ever and would never be displaced. Along comes Taylor and well now he's well displaced and the bar is higher than ever before.

20 years ago you'd of qualified for the world championship averaging 80, now you wouldn't win an irish players championship or INDO event doing that. Phil Taylor has raised the bar even further and everyone has had to up their game to compete.

as tough and all as it seems Taylor will be surpassed and people will be talking about the days when the world champ only averaged 105

wayne76

its a simple answer for me the other pro's look up to taylor they know where they need to get to in order to compete with him if he wasn't there i think the game would become flat like the way snooker has become, they had more viewers when ie. hendry was dominating as being the way we are we like to see the best fall down, so if he retired i think it would lose a lot as prb 50% of viewers prob watch in hope of witnessing him lose and like paulcorr say's everybody wants to see him play, it's a fact

Evolution Enter

Right lads, at no stage did I suggest Taylor retiring or needing to leave the game

Lets put it another way, is the fact that nobody can consistently raise their game against Taylor doing the game harm? Barney is the most consistent 100+ averager outside of Taylor, but the Power has him in his pocket now.

Taylor is vital to the games popularity, I just think people would be more interested if they really thought he was under threat. Think back to when Barney first switched over and remember how good it was to watch the pair trade blows.

Wade is on the up, gathering up titles while avoiding Taylor. Darts still needs Taylor, Taylor needs a serious rival

Degag

I think at the moment there are alot more people capable of beating Taylor than ever before. Go back 10 years and Taylor did not lose a game or a tournament. Period. In fact the only man who beat him on a semi regular basis was John Part about 5 or 6 years ago.

Also his average is a good benchmark but it isn't the be all and the end all. Its not difficult to beat a player while averaging 10 points less.

Evolution Enter

I think most players need an 80% checkout rate to beat him though

Rented Mule

He is not bad for the sport, he is everything that every other darter will be judged against.

Golf took on an entirely new look once Tiger Woods came on to the scene and raised the bar.

You need someone to set the standard and have the ability to constantly be raising the level of competition.

paulcorr

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Right lads, at no stage did I suggest Taylor retiring or needing to leave the game

Lets put it another way, is the fact that nobody can consistently raise their game against Taylor doing the game harm? Barney is the most consistent 100+ averager outside of Taylor, but the Power has him in his pocket now.

Taylor is vital to the games popularity, I just think people would be more interested if they really thought he was under threat. Think back to when Barney first switched over and remember how good it was to watch the pair trade blows.

Wade is on the up, gathering up titles while avoiding Taylor. Darts still needs Taylor, Taylor needs a serious rival

Another point been missed here is that taylor doesnt always get to play barney wade part in comp they only play each other once in a blue moon taylor only plays 1 player at a time unlike tiger woods who plays maybe 120 130 others and still wins players are beaten before they even play taylor so i wouldnt have a go at taylor for that i would have ago at the players who havent got the bottle there pros after all getting big money for playing a game we all love so what are they scared of

McKennas

i sort of agree with the post, but i would not say he is harming the game. He is the best player ever. nobody doubts that, but dont forget he was well beaten by King not so long ago, darts is a funny old game, all the pressure is on Taylor no matter who he plays.the final was a boring one,Yes..which is why im sure this thread was set up.. osbourne was just happy to pick up his 20 k cheque. but there are harder tournaments coming up..not ones were he'll play a truck driver etc.. Enjoy him while he's still playing. because he wont be around forever.

Evolution Enter

That's the thing, I'd enjoy his 115 averages if you had someone averaging 105-110 and with a good checkout percentage going up against him! There is nobody in the sport that pulls in a crowd like him

But when he dominates he also carrys the sport on his own

It would have been better in a way if Barney won the Premier League, at least there is a guy that beat Taylor and picks up majors

The sport needs Barney back and sticking it back up to Taylor

TanG411

Personally, I enjoy watching Taylor get a 110-115 average, even if his opponents are averaging 20 points less. He just has this dominance on the stage when he plays.

clivebaby

No he just shows what is possible in darts.He has made other players try harder to beat him thats why the game has improved in the last 5-10 years.

Degag

Evolution Enter wrote: »

I think most players need an 80% checkout rate to beat him though

Not necessarily... As Part, Jenkins and Priestly amongst others have proven that by throwing out of their skins in the legs where they throw first, they always have a chance. There being the flaw of averages. Because invariably they don't play as well in the legs where Taylor throws first.

clivebaby

And over 100 average

jamesbere

i dont think he is harming the game at all, the hype sky give him is annoying. they never seem to credit players if they beat him which is bad form.

i think he is beatable, if u watch the body language of some players they look beat before they go on stage. king, barney and wade know they can beat him so if they go 2 or 3 legs behind they are confident that they can get back.

if u watch a game and taylor breaks a players throw, they hang there head and give up. if some players would stop talking about beating him and just do it, then he wouldn't keep winning all these tournaments.

Its up to the rest of players to stop him now. But i do know one thing if lets say he retires in 2 or 3 years time( which i doubt) imagine the competion for no 1 stop it would be unreal:D

Evolution Enter

That's a danger with Taylor though, someone has to beat him regularly with great averages before he bows out......pass the torch so to speak

Daroxtar

Its not Taylors fault the others cant match him. He really is the greatest ever darts player and in my opinion one of the greatest sporting champions in any dicipline. I love watching him. It might not be nail biting but i think there is nothing like watching him destroy someone who mouthed off about what they were going to do to him.
We're fortunate to be able to witness his brilliance and long may he continue. TBH, he could keep beating them for the next 10 years and in doing so become a legend not just in darts but for all "older" people. How many other people can claim to be at their peak as they approach 50?

Evolution Enter

John MaGowen is a hero to the elderly already, hitting his nine darter in Germany last year!!

Taylor can't claim every title

ratinakeg

Evolution Enter wrote: »

John MaGowen is a hero to the elderly already, hitting his nine darter in Germany last year!!

Taylor can't claim every title

I think John MaGowen is a great man and a great ambassador for darts but I'd say if you asked 100 elderly people have they heard of him, I'd say about 1 or 2 of them would know who he was. I thought you would of mentioned Lowe, Bristow or Bob Anderson etc.

Degag

I'd love to see the averages of the games in which Taylor has lost, because i'd be confident that when he did, the majority of the time he had a better average than his opponent.

Evolution Enter

Ah come on Rat, can you not give me that one?? In fairness none of those guys have done anything in the last 10 years

ratinakeg

Evolution Enter wrote: »

Ah come on Rat, can you not give me that one?? In fairness none of those guys have done anything in the last 10 years

I agree with you mate but I would not say elderly folk would know who he is, they would know all the legends from the 80's and 90's and a few players from the last decade or so from what I know.

Rented Mule

ratinakeg wrote: »

I think John MaGowen is a great man and a great ambassador for darts but I'd say if you asked 100 elderly people have they heard of him, I'd say about 1 or 2 of them would know who he was. I thought you would of mentioned Lowe, Bristow or Bob Anderson etc.

If I am not mistaken, Bristow is only three years older than Taylor.

Kingp35

Rented Mule wrote: »

If I am not mistaken, Bristow is only three years older than Taylor.

Correct. The likes of Bristow, Harrington, Deller etc could all still be playing top class darts at their age. For whatever reason they aren't.

Evolution Enter

Well Bristow got dartitus didn't he? And Harrington has said a few times that he just lost it, it's a wonder you don't see him even trying, never even heard of him doing an exhibition

And Deller, well he's just god awful now as seen on setanta

Degag

Kingp35 wrote: »

Correct. The likes of Bristow, Harrington, Deller etc could all still be playing top class darts at their age. For whatever reason they aren't.

Harrington suffered a knee injury abut 10 years ago. He still tries to qualify for major events like the UK Open and World Championships though apparently.

Kingp35

Degag wrote: »

Harrington suffered a knee injury abut 10 years ago. He still tries to qualify for major events like the UK Open and World Championships though apparently.

I didn't know that, I thought he had jacked it in completely. One of the things that attracts me to darts is the fact that it can almost be played by anybody at any stage of their life. Not man other sports can say that. I think it's a pity that the likes of Harrington no longer play.

ratinakeg

Phil Taylor sent out a scary message to the rest of the darting world, by claiming he can still improve despite notching up his 50th major title victory.

'The Power' beat Colin Osborne 11-6 in Sunday's UK Open final to bring up his half-century of major tournament titles, including, his astonishing 14 World Championship successes.

Although age is against him, Taylor's standard of darts is better than ever, with two match averages over 115 during his victory in Bolton, coupled with his televised record of 116.01 during the Premier League.

Taylor admits that the all-action UK Open format took it out of him, and he will be doing everything to improve his overall game with two more majors coming up in quick succession.

"It's not all the time that I'm getting better, it's a bit spontaneous at the moment," said Taylor.

"I'm doing 103 and 104 then 115 and I've got to keep 115 up all the time - and get even better to 116 and 117. I can do it and I know I can do it - if I get my preparation right.

Fitness

"I've realised after the UK Open that I'm not fit enough or strong enough. I've got to get better, get fitter and concentrate on my career more.

"In the final I started to feel the tiredness and Colin kicked off fantastically. I couldn't seem to grind him down but I got a few chances and got back into it.

"Colin won his semi-final and had a sleep for an hour, and he was fresh and ready for the final.

"I played, had half-an-hour and was back on again, and it makes a difference - but I had to keep grinding. He went a little bit during the middle session and I picked up on that."

Taylor did lose his Premier League crown this year when beaten by Mervyn King - who himself was beaten by James Wade in the final - meaning he lost out in his bid to hold all of the major TV titles.

New breed

Wade is leading the charge of the new breed of young darts starts trying to take on Taylor, although the veteran is still at the top of the tree as he remains on target to win all eight major ranking events.

"Obviously, I am still disappointed about that loss in the Premier League because it would have been a real achievement to hold all the current 'Major' titles but it gives me the motivation to keep on winning and I am still targeting the clean sweep," Taylor said.

"All these players are preparing themselves properly. They are practising, dedicating themselves and trying to get better.

"It's different to years ago, when they just practised - now they are practising to get better. They concentrate, write things down and check them day in, day out. That's the difference."

The Stoke thrower now has to defend two more titles next month with the Las Vegas Desert Classic and World Matchplay both coming up.

"I still have the hunger and desire to win and I want to successfully defend both titles. I love Vegas and Blackpool is my favourite event," said Taylor. "If I lose that, I'll be gutted.

"It's like a second World Championship to me and I love it."