Richie Ramsey

Mister Sifter

Not sure if many on here saw the incident involving Richie Ramsey on Saturday, but anyone got any thoughts. Can't find a video to it either online...

Pick, clean and drop was in play. On the 8th fairway he marked his ball , picked it up, cleaned it and just before he went to place it down he used his foot to press down on the ground 3-4 times before placing the ball down.

A viewer wrote in to complain that he had improved his lie. From the camera it looked very dubious.

He was quizzed on it after the round but in the end he was not penalised.

Ramsey himself claimed he was merely checking the area for casual water and did not improve his lie. He said he was 100% certain.

Very hard to explain without a video, but does anyone who seen it have any thoughts?

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Not sure if many on here saw the incident involving Richie Ramsey on Saturday, but anyone got any thoughts. Can't find a video to it either online...

Pick, clean and drop was in play. On the 8th fairway he marked his ball , picked it up, cleaned it and just before he went to place it down he used his foot to press down on the ground 3-4 times before placing the ball down.

A viewer wrote in to complain that he had improved his lie. From the camera it looked very dubious.

He was quizzed on it after the round but in the end he was not penalised.

Ramsey himself claimed he was merely checking the area for casual water and did not improve his lie. He said he was 100% certain.

Very hard to explain without a video, but does anyone who seen it have any thoughts?

Looked to me like he was improving his lie/intended swing path. Can't say for sure obviously, only he knows. Either way, it was a very silly think to do with a TV camera up his arse.

ShriekingSheet

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Not sure if many on here saw the incident involving Richie Ramsey on Saturday, but anyone got any thoughts. Can't find a video to it either online...

Pick, clean and drop was in play. On the 8th fairway he marked his ball , picked it up, cleaned it and just before he went to place it down he used his foot to press down on the ground 3-4 times before placing the ball down.

A viewer wrote in to complain that he had improved his lie. From the camera it looked very dubious.

He was quizzed on it after the round but in the end he was not penalised.

Ramsey himself claimed he was merely checking the area for casual water and did not improve his lie. He said he was 100% certain.

Very hard to explain without a video, but does anyone who seen it have any thoughts?

I have to say, having heard the commentators talk about it but not seeing it myself, it doesn't sound like a big deal to me. Espcially with placing in play, why would anyone bother pressing down on a lie to improve it - that's leaving aside the fact that he knew he was on TV all over the world and, one assumes, he was aware of such incidents as the Kenny Perry debacle.

Not guilty IMO

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ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I have to say, having heard the commentators talk about it but not seeing it myself, it doesn't sound like a big deal to me. Espcially with placing in play, why would anyone bother pressing down on a lie to improve it - that's leaving aside the fact that he knew he was on TV all over the world and, one assumes, he was aware of such incidents as the Kenny Perry debacle.

Not guilty IMO

Because it was a long par 5 and several of the players were hitting driver 2nd shot....a lot easier done if the ground behind the ball is pressed down.

Mister Sifter

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I have to say, having heard the commentators talk about it but not seeing it myself, it doesn't sound like a big deal to me. Espcially with placing in play, why would anyone bother pressing down on a lie to improve it - that's leaving aside the fact that he knew he was on TV all over the world and, one assumes, he was aware of such incidents as the Kenny Perry debacle.

Not guilty IMO

I think he was about to hit a three wood at the time so the thought was that he was pressing down so that he could almost tee the ball up.

The camera angle was poor. It was right behind him so it was very hard to tell.

The guys on Golf Night were pretty angry that he wasn't penalised.

ShriekingSheet

You know, I wonder did he get away on a technicality. I'm not arsed looking up the rules but would it be possible he got away with it because his ball was not placed and as such, he didn't have a lie to improve? By that I mean, if his ball had've been down at the time = penalty. But it wasn't so no penalty?

Just a guess.

mag

afterwards (not sure if it was the same round or the following one) he then forgot to mark his ball for the clean & drop and incurred a one shot penalty.....maybe the guilt got to him!

Mister Sifter

He wasn't penalised because the rules guys left it up to him to decide whether he was guilty. Ramsey said he was 100% confident he hadn't done anything wrong. Rock and Fisher (his playing partners) backed him up.

Interesting point though Sheet. Was the ball actually in play at the time? I'd often do similar before teeing it up.

He got away with no penalty, but I think the whole episode still ended up costing him the chance to compete for the title. It clearly rattled him.

bostoncommon

He was checking for casual water before he placed it, notting wrong with that. How are you meant check?

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bostoncommon wrote: »

He was checking for casual water before he placed it, notting wrong with that. How are you meant check?

A casual water-o-meter

BombSquad

I haven't seen it but would think he'd have a lot more of a case to answer for if it was in the rough. I don't think there's any advantage to be gained on tour fairways by messing with the ground prior to placing... but he'd obviously be better off not messing with it at all.

BombSquad

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I'm not arsed looking up the rules but would it be possible he got away with it because his ball was not placed and as such, he didn't have a lie to improve?

I think there's a rule stopping a player from preparing the area in which he is about to drop/place a ball. You'll always see players drop and then remove any debris around the ball. I also couldn't be arsed looking it up though...

PhilipMarlowe

Without looking it up, you can clear away debris before dropping a ball.. I always thought you couldn't but looked it up one time to see that it's allowed

BombSquad

Got a bit of time to look it up...

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line
of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the

hole, or

• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

Still the same original question remains... Was Ramsey preparing the lie or checking for casual water...

Also... I think we all need to brush up on our knowledge of the rules!

copacetic

I saw it when they replayed it yesterday and the cameras do make it look dodgy. However I don't really see how he could be improving his lie on the tight fairways they play on tour. Simply being able to place gives them a perfect lie. re your OP Graeme, it was pick, clean and place, not drop afair.

Knowing they were worried about casual water and looking at it again you can see he is putting his foot down and waiting a pause for water to appear around it. All in all he gets the benefit of the doubt and was right not to let being asked to look at it again affect him.

Dylan69

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

You know, I wonder did he get away on a technicality. I'm not arsed looking up the rules but would it be possible he got away with it because his ball was not placed and as such, he didn't have a lie to improve? By that I mean, if his ball had've been down at the time = penalty. But it wasn't so no penalty?

Just a guess.

I'm guessing that shriekingsheet might have a point! Because the ball wasnt place, there was no lie to improve!!
Wonder if the Rules committee will come out and point out what was infringed and not , so we know for ourselves instead looking it up which i couldnt be bothered to go through hundreds of pages!!! lol

Mister Sifter

Ian Carter blogs on it here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/iaincarter/2009/06/ramsays_trial_by_video.html

PhilipMarlowe

Removing debris is not improving the lie... fixing a divot or pitchmark would be. Flattening out the ground would be too etc... You can remove loose impediments but sand and loose soil are only loose impediments on the putting green as far as I remember.