Labour to Abolish the Bin Charges????

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 7:35am #1

Now that labour is the biggest party on Dublin City council will they carry out the promises they made under Dermot Lacy Pat Rabbit and Roisin Shortall many years ago, That was when they were the biggest party on city council they would abolish the bin charges. I can provide various links I am sure if I have to but we all know on the anti bin charge campagn that this was said.

You can bet they will have the support of Sinn Fein and People before profit who also campagned against these charges. Then again is this the start of the water charge period.

It was always interesting how many labour councillors abstained or failed to turn up to vote when the bin charage issue came up.

Now lets see if they have the ability to put there words into action!

ps: Forgot to mention the marvelous contrabution of clare daly and the socialist party

conchubhar1 · 08-06-2009 7:42am

socialists will agree too - clare daly was arrested over it, im nearly certain

astrofool · 08-06-2009 9:10am

The polluter should pay, I don't see how making bins free will do anything other than encourage huge wastage.

It's even hard to see how this managed to become a socialist policy, given the destruction having a free for all bin system would cause to the country.

jimmycrackcorm · 08-06-2009 11:15am

Just like the greens they will have to temper their idealism to the harsh practicalities of cold cash to pay for this stuff. They'd never get away with it as the private bin companies would challenge it in court.

turgon · 08-06-2009 11:31am

Removing bin charges will create a monopoly of the bins by the public sector, which like all other public sector divisions will be totally and completely inefficient. Although the short sighted socialists think this will improve things, it will only increase the overall cost of bin charges through higher taxes.

TheInquisitor · 08-06-2009 11:32am

Crazy stuff? People not paying to get rid of their rubbish. What a crock

antoinolachtnai · 08-06-2009 11:46am

Waste charges? That's so 90's. Domestic water charges. That's where it's at.

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 3:20pm

This is not an issue to be disagreed on really the question is will labour as promised abolish the bin charges. There is many ways to tackle this the assumption that the poluter pays ethic in fact thats an incorrect ethic as proven by many economists. This leads to the principle that if I pay to dump my rubish I will dump my rubbish!

The solution lies in the manufacturing process. What you do is tax the manufacturer to produce parts that are recycleable and then give the end user a wastage allowence and only when they exceed the waste allowence do you tax them

By all your assumptions that pay the logic would leave you to believe that you actually wont have to pay tax on anything but you will always be paying. You will actually will be paying more because the govt have to sudsadise those who cant afford to pay so you are paying a private company more!

turgon · 08-06-2009 3:57pm

PAY by weight is the ideal system.

Since we started using it we have had a 60-70% in the rubbish we throw out, instead using recycling and compost. The financial motivation is there.

Such motivation is not there with free bin collections. I think this policy does not stand up to any rational argument, and I will be highly disappointed if Labour make such a socialistic move.

Of course the problem is that it is national taxpayers will pay. I would mind this within the context of a fully federal state, however why should the rest have to pay because Dublin has turned socialistic?

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 4:05pm

Actually I can see the logic here. You are right! We should pay for our bins yes! and we should pay for our water yes! and we should pay our council poll tax that pays for lights and utilities and like in the country we should have to pay for our grass cutting etc

Why!

Simple cause before 1990 we never paid for all of this and it was not provided and taxed centrally. I can see now why you all agree we should pay for it.

How daft i am.. I reackon about 1500 a year sounds good,

turgon · 08-06-2009 4:10pm

Are you being sarcastic?

It does not make sense that people should pay the same, even if one dumps 10 times the amount of rubbish as the other.

It makes sense that someone who uses 1 thousand gallons of water should pay more than someone who consumes 1 gallon.

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 4:20pm

turgon wrote: »

Are you being sarcastic?

It does not make sense that people should pay the same, even if one dumps 10 times the amount of rubbish as the other.

It makes sense that someone who uses 1 thousand gallons of water should pay more than someone who consumes 1 gallon.

Moi? Never!

But explain why something that worked perfect before must now be changed and why a simple method of allocating an allowence and then taxing based on over use wont work. Dress it what ever way you want. We are paying more and more than we ever did. and this is wrong.

Like I say if your happy to pay how silly of me but enough people protested and labour made promises but then again its not the first promise they broke

Your arguement is perfectly reasonable if your happy at paying 1500 euro a year( Which IS on the cards) The killer i find in the current system is if I recycle nothing I pay X amount regardless or if I am on the labour and I recycle nothing I pay noting with a waiver

if I am penalised for failing to match my allowence then I have no one to blame but myself!

Like I said at the start i am only calling for labour to do what they promised not introduce

Waste
Water
poll charges

Which is on the cards,

turgon · 08-06-2009 4:30pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

But explain why something that worked perfect before must now be changed

I dont know your definition of perfect, but mine certainly isnt people putting compost-able and recyclable materials in the waste ibut just because at the end of the day it doesnt cost them a bob.

Joey the lips wrote: »

and why a simple method of allocating an allowence and then taxing based on over use wont work.

How is this many different to pay by weight? Except of course that those who earn more for some strange reason will have to pay for everyone elses litter.

Joey the lips wrote: »

The killer i find in the current system is if I recycle nothing I pay X amount regardless or if I am on the labour and I recycle nothing I pay noting with a waiver

Down in Cork we are on Pay by Weight, and as I said this is the ideal.

ShooterSF · 08-06-2009 4:33pm

'Tis great to have a fireplace where I can burn most of my rubbish :pac:

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 4:38pm

turgon wrote: »

I dont know your definition of perfect, but mine certainly isnASt people putting compost-able and recyclable materials in the waste ibut just because at the end of the day it doesnt cost them a bob.

How is this many different to pay by weight? Except of course that those who earn more for some strange reason will have to pay for everyone elses litter.

Down in Cork we are on Pay by Weight, and as I said this is the ideal.

Its different in that if you dont break your allowence you dont pay. Where as in pay by weight you pay once you use

Its clear labours proposal is not going to apeal to you as

1. You dont live in Dublin where it was proposed!
2. You dont think that logically if dublin stops paying its only a matter of time before the rest of the country does not,

Like I said I simply want labout to do what they promised! Not do what you want them to do!

If your happy to pay...Pay away. I am not! My waste was collect monday, tues, wed, then thursday I had to pay. No difference only I now payed!

It HAS been proven that pay by weight only works when you are charged PER lift! like water charges only work PER litre but councils become more efficent and decide to charge you a set charge. What does this do! It brings back everyone to the same before they paid!

Martyr · 08-06-2009 4:40pm

turgon wrote:

Of course the problem is that it is national taxpayers will pay. I would mind this within the context of a fully federal state, however why should the rest have to pay because Dublin has turned socialistic?

you aint seen nothin yet.

Joey the lips · 08-06-2009 4:44pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

'Tis great to have a fireplace where I can burn most of my rubbish :pac:

Good lad! You actually proved a point that I argued with council. That becasue of waste charges more people are

1. Burning Rubbish and putting poisioness checmicals untreated into the athmosphere

2. Pouring grease and paint down the sink and toilet overloading the sewage treatment works

3. Burning grass in the back garden cause compost heaps are not coping due to damp weather.

This all makes sense to me!:D

Labour to Abolish the Bin Charges????

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