402,100 now on the dole!

skelliser

The Live Register for may is out today, another 13,500 lost there jobs.

The seasonally adjusted Live Register total increased from 388,600 in April to
402,100 in May, an increase of 13,500.
Thats up 96% in 1 year.
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/lreg.pdf


This is the legacy of ff. The blame lies squarely at their door.
Take a bow clowen!!


did i mention theres an election on today......

Gone Drinking

I'm voting with my feet... and not voting.

Max Power1

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'm voting with my feet... and not voting.

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

CiaranC

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'm voting with my feet... and not voting.

Thats genius, well done

Gone Drinking

Max Power1 wrote: »

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

CiaranC wrote: »

Thats genius, well done

I'm sorry, i thought this was After Hours.

Wagon

Max Power1 wrote: »

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

I voted with my feet and left the country. Might have to go back there though soon

before you say vote on where i am now, i can't. the embassy is halfway down the country...which is about 500km away. I really can't see fianna fail getting back in though; over 400,000 out of work...what a mess.

Old people might vote fianna fail though, so do all you can to beat as many up and them getting to the polling stations!

humanji

Max Power1 wrote: »

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

Eh, how does someone win by default? If a person doesn't vote, the election is decided by everyone else who did. Status quo only comes into it if the majority votes for the same people who are already in office.

antodeco

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'm voting with my feet....

Christy Brown is that you??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CiaranC wrote: »

Thats genius, well done

Max Power1 wrote: »

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

I´d consider this a more practical statement than monaing and voting Fianna Fial again simply because "Enda has no real personality".

Raze_them_all

Wagon wrote: »

I voted with my feet and left the country. Might have to go back there though soon

before you say vote on where i am now, i can't. the embassy is halfway down the country...which is about 500km away. I really can't see fianna fail getting back in though; over 400,000 out of work...what a mess.

Old people might vote fianna fail though, so do all you can to beat as many up and them getting to the polling stations!

you could just stand outside and beat the snot outta them outside the polling stations

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'm voting with my feet... and not voting

CiaranC wrote: »

Thats genius, well done

Max Power1 wrote: »

thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!:mad:

I´d consider Mr. Drinking´s move far more practical than moaning about the status quo, and then voting FF because "Enda´s got no real personality".

Dumbledore

I have said it before I will say it again, the social welfare needs to be cut or significantly reformed. That is a need, not something I personally want. If current levels of social welfare are maintained, the country will go bankrupt.

Once again I repeat. The dole WILL be cut, it is a mathematical fact, if we keep going as we are eventually nobody will lend our government money to pay it anymore.

Max Power1

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I´d consider Mr. Drinking´s move far more practical than moaning about the status quo, and then voting FF because "Enda´s got no real personality".

Originally Posted by Gone Drinking
I'm voting with my feet... and not voting

Quote:
Originally Posted by CiaranC
Thats genius, well done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power1
thats a vote for whoever wins by default - saying you are happy with the status quo.

A ridiculous statement if ever i heard one!!

Well ill be voting for Sinn Fein anyway - that Mary Lou one looks too enticing to say no to!

PirateShampoo

Thats not even near the real figure. Theres countless many lads who have worked self employed and cant sign on. Like myself.

minidazzler

For the most part it's not FF's fault people are out of work. It's the companies that moved on and the Banks that fcuked up. So stop being so damn Irish and blaming everything on the politicians of a small country who have no control over any thing really in this world.

skelliser

Dumbledore wrote: »

I have said it before I will say it again, the social welfare needs to be cut or significantly reformed. That is a need, not something I personally want. If current levels of social welfare are maintained, the country will go bankrupt.

Once again I repeat. The dole WILL be cut, it is a mathematical fact, if we keep going as we are eventually nobody will lend our government money to pay it anymore.

ya screw the people at the bottom while wasting 4 billion on anglo.
That 4 billion could have been used for a stimulous package to the country to save jobs instead of flushing it down the toilet.
But no ff takes care of there friends first.

My name is URL

skelliser wrote: »

This is the legacy of ff. The blame lies squarely at their door.
Take a bow clowen!!

I hate FF as much as anyone else, but it's retarded to say the blame is entirely theirs when it's obviously down to (in no small part) the global downturn, and multinational layoffs

CiaranC

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I´d consider Mr. Drinking´s move far more practical than moaning about the status quo, and then voting FF because "Enda´s got no real personality".

Heres a newsflash for you chief.

The FF political establishment vote the same way every single election. They will poll at least 25% in this election, before we have even started counting other votes.

Gob****es who dont understand anything about the politics of this country refusing to vote to make some kind of statement plays directly into their hands.

CiaranC

minidazzler wrote: »

For the most part it's not FF's fault people are out of work. It's the companies that moved on and the Banks that fcuked up. So stop being so damn Irish and blaming everything on the politicians of a small country who have no control over any thing really in this world.

It is entirely, completely, 100% percent FFs fault that the economy collapsed. They created, encouraged and fuelled the property bubble to line the pockets of their construction industry friends and to enrich and empower themselves.

It has nothing to do with any outside factors. Ireland would be in recession regardless of world events, thanks to FFs giant property pyramid scheme.

FF apologists make me nauseous.

delllat

Well they can suck my knob ,i wont be voting for them

although im too lazy to vote against them too

Dumbledore

CiaranC wrote: »

It is entirely, completely, 100% percent FFs fault that the economy collapsed. They created, encouraged and fuelled the property bubble to line the pockets of their construction industry friends and to enrich and empower themselves.

It has nothing to do with any outside factors. Ireland would be in recession regardless of world events, thanks to FFs giant property pyramid scheme.

FF apologists make me nauseous.

So it was Fianna Fáil who lent out exorbitant amounts of money to investors and home buyers, who had poor credit histories and little or no proof of income? I am not going to vote for Fianna Fáil, but saying that it is 100% because of them that the economy has collapsed, is pure, unbridled economic ignorance.

M450

Well it'll be 402,101 as soon as I get down to the dole office! Just finished my last ever exam yesterday!

and2

402,099. the girlfriend got a job at last

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CiaranC wrote: »

Gob****es who dont understand anything about the politics of this country refusing to vote to make some kind of statement plays directly into their hands.

.... just as much as the ones who actively vote FOR them (outside of the 25% you mentioned).

AntiRip

Isn't the voting today for local and European elections though and not a general election?

seamus

minidazzler wrote: »

For the most part it's not FF's fault people are out of work. It's the companies that moved on and the Banks that fcuked up. So stop being so damn Irish and blaming everything on the politicians of a small country who have no control over any thing really in this world.

Let's be fair here. To say that there was nothing they could have done is burying your head in the sand. The fact of the matter is that we've gone from practically 100% employment (< 5%) to 11% in around 18 months. Recession or no, that's pretty incredible. Other countries have been hit as hard as Ireland, but why haven't they all seen such a massive surge in unemployment?

We were on the verge of something of a financial crisis anyway, the recession/credit crunch just brought it home a whole lot quicker. The current FF government presided over a decade of runaway construction, unbrideled lending and unchecked planning. Not only did they turn a blind eye to the property market being artificially inflated, they actually encouraged it by providing tax breaks and other incentives to try get everyone to buy new properties - regardless of whether they already owned another one.

The government's policies actively encouraged property speculation and the complete free run they gave the banks meant that only old joe soap could get into speculation despite having little or no collateral to fall back on.

This government created an overinflated construction sector and now have to atone for its collapse - which includes massive amounts of lost money and massive amounts of unemployment.

CiaranC

Dumbledore wrote: »

So it was Fianna Fáil who lent out exorbitant amounts of money to investors and home buyers, who had poor credit histories and little or no proof of income? I am not going to vote for Fianna Fáil, but saying that it is 100% because of them that the economy has collapsed, is pure, unbridled economic ignorance.

Not only did they watch this practice going on, not only did they fail to do anything about it via legislation, not only did they actively collude and encourage the borrowers in their cozy tent in Galway, but they actively encouraged it through Section 23 and other tax breaks and a neutered regulation system and through repeated propagandised statements that all was rosy in the Garden and that naysayers should kill themselves.

And now we get to bail out their banker friends and their construction buddies!

But sure it wasnt their fault at all at all at all. :rolleyes:

antodeco

and2 wrote: »

402,099. the girlfriend got a job at last

I got a job off her too....

fly_agaric

Dumbledore wrote: »

So it was Fianna Fáil who lent out exorbitant amounts of money to investors and home buyers, who had poor credit histories and little or no proof of income? I am not going to vote for Fianna Fáil, but saying that it is 100% because of them that the economy has collapsed, is pure, unbridled economic ignorance.

They were in government.

Most people except free market wet dreamers expect a govt. to manage aspects of the economy they can exert some control on far better than FF have done so blaming FF is not "unbridled economic ignorance".

At the end of the day the buck stops with the govt.

The govt. could have poured some cold water on the housing market in various ways, could have stopped the banks lending so much so recklessly, and going beyond just the property bust could even have controlled costs in the economy better. They didn't.

Biggins

Dumbledore wrote: »

So it was Fianna Fáil who lent out exorbitant amounts of money to investors and home buyers, who had poor credit histories and little or no proof of income? I am not going to vote for Fianna Fáil, but saying that it is 100% because of them that the economy has collapsed, is pure, unbridled economic ignorance.

Certain words are not allowed to be said to be heard said by government ministers to the public or to cameras. Recession, depression, emergency taxes, etc. Words that will for all clear reasons, strike alarm into the public and maybe wake them finally from their slumbering acceptance of the present situation. Maybe they are afraid that the public might actually kop-on that a lot of our current situation could have been avoided. Indeed for all their economic advisor's that are paid yearly at the rate of €240,000 each not including massive pensions, it seems value for money or how effective they actually are, is not something that is taken into consideration when it comes to job evaluations (if such checks exist at all! And if not - why not!).

The same government ministers when they stick their heads out from where they are hiding to give their sound-bites for the cameras and media, like to state with consistent veracity that Ireland is in the same boat as the rest of the modern countries, struggling to survive now. However they conveniently forget to mention that they, as heads and controllers of the country that had everything going for it, the best economic growth of all European countries (Celtic Tiger period), allowed by their incompetence and greed, to let their nation sink to the economic depths of as yet an unseen bottomless pit. If they had had a brain between them that actually hired the right people instead of keeping on the same old tired non-checked useless farts, Ireland seriously might be still be in a better economic condition. Alas no, they still to this day that you read this comment, allow the outdated farts to continue in their comfortable positions. Meanwhile more wiser heads are actually doing things right!

Take for example Canada.

One of the top civilised countries in the world has NOT had one bank failure or even come close to it. Their economy is strong despite the nation on its southern border not helping, its banks are well capitalised and poised to take advantage of opportunities that European and American banks cannot seize.
They have for years put in place effective safeguards that has controlled the prices of property and kept it stable, they have tightened regulation in all areas of businesses where American and European partners have been rushing for de-regulation. Their tax code does not provide for massive incentive for overconsumption. It has 12 years of monetary surpluses and put some of this money away for "rainy days" (who would know things could go bad - probably only those with working brains).
The country restructured the national pension scheme, placing it on a firm fiscal footing. Its health care is cheaper by far, its stock markets are doing better than all major countries also. Life expectancy is STILL one of thee highest in the world.

How did all this happen? The government actually planned effectively through its advisors, economic and political, for the worst YEARS ago when things were going good. They knew not to put all their revenue resources in too many single baskets/areas. They saved for possible bad times. They applied money (tightly controlled and watched) to the vital areas such as education, science and industry. Such is still their success that for example; Ontario is now the biggest car producing region between USA and Canada alone!

They didn't do any thing that other countries couldn't have done with a bit of kop-on.
They just went a head and did it while our government for one, stupidly thought everything going good would last for ever and didn't plan for bad days.
Meanwhile our government ministers decided (and still do) to go on countless world junkets and extra long holidays (- remember their Christmas break or have we forgotten about that already? When was the last time anyone has even seen a half full Dail?).

Guess what! We are all now paying for our elected officials stupidity and to a great extent, we get what we deserve!
We put the fools in power - whats more and WORSE - we are still allowing them to remain there. Remember that at the next election for crying out loud!
Its time for bloody change and not just in the same over paid faces but time for change in the way things are done!

While the government continues to make the rest of us pay for their inapt foresight, frugal spending in the wrong areas, hiring and non-firing those that are clearly incompetent to act as advisor's, while they continue to enjoy non-taxable huge wages, expenses, perks and junkets - remember all this every week when you look at your latest payslip and see just how much you, yes, YOU are paying for the mistakes of others!

Roll on the next election!

Source: http://www.unitedpeople.ie/fail.html

ibarelycare

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Thats not even near the real figure. Theres countless many lads who have worked self employed and cant sign on. Like myself.

You should still be signing on to build up your stamps, regardless of whether you're going to get dole money or not. That's what the majority of self-employed people whose businesses have ceased are doing at the moment, so the figures should reflect that.

cherryghost

and2 wrote: »

402,099. the girlfriend got a job at last

Why does she count for two people?

ibarelycare

cherryghost wrote: »

Why does she count for two people?

402,100 - 1 = 402,099

cherryghost

M450 wrote: »

Well it'll be 402,101 as soon as I get down to the dole office! Just finished my last ever exam yesterday!

402,101 - 1 = 402,100.

delllat

ibarelycare wrote: »

402,100 - 1 = 402,099

any woman over 20 stone counts as 2 persons,duh

robinph

AntiRip wrote: »

Isn't the voting today for local and European elections though and not a general election?

There are a couple of Dail seats up for grabs in Dublin as well as the MEP and Council elections.

ibarelycare

cherryghost wrote: »

402,101 - 1 = 402,100.

Them two posted at the same time, don't think one was in response to the other!

Aidric

CiaranC wrote: »

It is entirely, completely, 100% percent FFs fault that the economy collapsed. They created, encouraged and fuelled the property bubble to line the pockets of their construction industry friends and to enrich and empower themselves.

It has nothing to do with any outside factors. Ireland would be in recession regardless of world events, thanks to FFs giant property pyramid scheme.

FF apologists make me nauseous.

I'm not a FF apologist but if you think that the economic collapse is completely Irish fuelled then you're talking through your hosepipe. The mass property bubble in the states which channeled the sub prime collapse has triggered a freeze in international credit markets. Banks can't access funds on the inter bank market and so effectively can't lend on causing the economy to grind to a halt.
You are right in all you say about the wreckless practices of the property tax breaks given to Irish developers but Ireland's open market is such that it couldn't have avoided slipping in to recession. Being part of the euro also puts us in a bind.

dvpower

Max Power1 wrote: »

Well ill be voting for Sinn Fein anyway - that Mary Lou one looks too enticing to say no to!
[/i]

*shiver*

Dravokivich

Wait whoa... isn't the voting today mainly for local elections for councils and such... not a general election for the government...?

- Drav!

Borzoi

cherryghost wrote: »

402,101 - 1 = 402,100.

-1 Got job offer today after 3 months on the scratcher. Huge pay cut too 0- but I'm still happy

gurramok

Aidric wrote: »

I'm not a FF apologist but if you think that the economic collapse is completely Irish fuelled then you're talking through your hosepipe. The mass property bubble in the states which channeled the sub prime collapse has triggered a freeze in international credit markets. Banks can't access funds on the inter bank market and so effectively can't lend on causing the economy to grind to a halt.
You are right in all you say about the wreckless practices of the property tax breaks given to Irish developers but Ireland's open market is such that it couldn't have avoided slipping in to recession. Being part of the euro also puts us in a bind.

The Irish housing bubble burst in mid '06 before the credit crunch occurred in Aug '07.

Ireland was the first country to enter recession.

The construction industry was double the size of what it should of been in other countries.(look it up)

Bertie paid off the public sector with non-performance relatd rises through benchmarking and coupled with hiking social welfare rates, the public finances went into a tailspin.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pzcsCLFvURLWO5dSWjO2kbg&gid=0

All presided over by Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen.

gazzer

minidazzler wrote: »

For the most part it's not FF's fault people are out of work. It's the companies that moved on and the Banks that fcuked up. So stop being so damn Irish and blaming everything on the politicians of a small country who have no control over any thing really in this world.

Funny though that the same politicians were taking all the credit for our 'booming' enconomy and that we were the envy of Europe when times were good. Also funny that our health service is in a worse state then it ever was and that people are dying on hospital trolleys because there are no wards to put them in.

bleg

get a job you lazy bums!

powerzjim

the government have been terrible but its a global problem so we can blame the government, england and america!:pac:

Keano

FF really made a lot of bad judgements but if I am to be honest I am more annoyed that school kids in Ireland still have to sit in portacabins and people lie on trollies day after day. This is major reason why I wont be voting FF.

Individuals blaming FF for them having no money when they spent well beyond their means... 2 houses, 2 cars etc and now blame the current government for this :rolleyes:

deadhead13

We are uniquely f**ked due to the fact that the construction industry amounted to 20% of our GNP. The housing bubble was unstainable. The government knew it, but they further inflated it with tax breaks and incentives. Remember all the talk of a soft landing. Who was the Finance Minister over this period - Brian Cowen.

FF's mantra of we are a small open economy at the mercy of a gobal economic meltdown, it is nothing to do with us, is just spin. Funny how they were climbing over each other to tell us how the boom was all down to them - but the bust is an orphan

Nolanger

Who care how many are out of work? Most of them are crooked ex-builders, non-nationals, Celtic Tiger tossers with 100% mortages, and fools who decided to train to become a solicitor but lacked the intelligence to realise that once a recession hit these jobs would disappear - for good!

brianthebard

Aidric wrote: »

I'm not a FF apologist but if you think that the economic collapse is completely Irish fuelled then you're talking through your hosepipe. The mass property bubble in the states which channeled the sub prime collapse has triggered a freeze in international credit markets. Banks can't access funds on the inter bank market and so effectively can't lend on causing the economy to grind to a halt.
You are right in all you say about the wreckless practices of the property tax breaks given to Irish developers but Ireland's open market is such that it couldn't have avoided slipping in to recession. Being part of the euro also puts us in a bind.

This is nonsense. The government was willing to take the plaudits for the economic growth of the past decade or so, let them take the blame for its collapse too. The government was in charge of monitoring banks and financing and it failed to do its job correctly, simple as.

gizmo

CiaranC wrote: »

It is entirely, completely, 100% percent FFs fault that the economy collapsed. They created, encouraged and fuelled the property bubble to line the pockets of their construction industry friends and to enrich and empower themselves.

It has nothing to do with any outside factors. Ireland would be in recession regardless of world events, thanks to FFs giant property pyramid scheme.

FF apologists make me nauseous.

As do hyperbolic statements such as that. Ignoring all of the other contributing factors both foreign and domestic is just as bad as the so-called "apologists".

That being said seamus did make an interesting point earlier when he said...

The government's policies actively encouraged property speculation and the complete free run they gave the banks meant that only old joe soap could get into speculation despite having little or no collateral to fall back on.

Keyword there being could. I do find it amusing when such people with little or no collateral got themselves into such trouble, who when questioned on their actions replied with "Sure I'm a millionaire" basing said response soley on the value of their property and then got screwed when the bubble collapsed. There are plenty of people around the country who kept their head during the boom, didn't feel the need for multiple holidays and annual car changes or taking all the money the banks were supposedly throwing at people and are in far better position than some of the above morons. Only problem is, said people are now blaming everyone but themselves during the current crisis and we get to listen to a bunch of them on AH, yay!

So yes, the government had a large role to play in the crisis, no it's not completely their fault but for the love of all that's good and holy can we please talk about something else?

Aidric

brianthebard wrote: »

This is nonsense. The government was willing to take the plaudits for the economic growth of the past decade or so, let them take the blame for its collapse too. The government was in charge of monitoring banks and financing and it failed to do its job correctly, simple as.

How are those black and white glasses working out for you?