Converted 2005 Corolla to E85 - Cheaper Option

limklad

I have recently converted my 2005 Corolla car with Fuel-Flex kit directly from the Manufacturer.
Before buying the Kit, I made sure I had the right Connections and correct polarity. After That I needed my Insurance Company go ahead for Cover that no increase in premiums will be incurred. So Far so Good. All they needed was a Qualified Mechanic to Installed it and send them a letter or copy of the invoice which state the Bio-Ethanol Kit was Installed using Manufacture instructions. I did this so I can keep my car insurance cover valid.

I Also got the Same Mechanic who installs the Kit here in Limerick which is RS Auto Shop in Clondrina, since they had experience already. E85 Flyer
It cost me ~€80 to install and ~€300 to buy from the websites and ship it to me. That was a big saving (€190) to me before buying the E85 Fuel which currently 97C/L. The Kit that RS Auto Shop buys cost him way and was surprise by the price I got for it.
Currently both sellers are still in sales mode right now.
Fuel Flex International
Change2e85

I also recommends before buying from either Sites, is to get their shipping costs and verify that your car year and model and polarity of the Injectors with them by email. This is 1/. to ensure you are getting the correct kit and 2/. that customer service is good in case you need to send back the kit.

So Far I have no problems.

Also I Could not get a reduction in Motor Tax for reduce CO2 Emissions as the Car is older than 2008 even though E85 reduces CO2 Emissions by 70%.
It is a basic Stealth Tax for their Pockets and not for protection of the Environment as they claimed.

This was the Reply I got from the Tax office

Motor Tax Policy Section wrote:

Dear Mr. Limklad

I am directed by Mr. John Gormley, TD, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to refer to your recent correspondence in relation to motor tax.

I would like to explain that insofar as motor tax is concerned, all cars are treated equally regardless of fuel type. Cars registered prior to 2008 will be assessed on the basis of engine size (c.c.). The new CO2 based system only applies to cars registered on or after July 1st 2008. The same bands apply to all fuel types; there are no concessionary rates based on fuel type, and in relation to flexible fuel cars the rate of the CO2 emission is based on a full tank of petrol and not a mixture of fuel.

There is no provision to revisit the CO2 level by way of the National Car Test or any subsequent adaptations to the vehicle.

I hope this answers your enquiry.

Yours sincerely,

Motor Tax Policy Section

colm_mcm

limklad wrote: »

Also I Could not get a reduction in Motor Tax for reduce CO2 Emissions as the Car is older than 2008 even though E85 reduces CO2 Emissions by 70%.

Thought the figure was more like 20% reduction?

I think your request for cheaper motor tax was a bit misguided, it is well known that hybrids and FFVs before 2008 still remain on the old system. the system changed in 2008, simple as that.

Also, E85 isn't the miracle most thought it would be. the overall impact of E85 production and the net benefits don't match up to the green dream of a few years ago.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

Thought the figure was more like 20% reduction?

Up to 20% less fuel efficiently with high Revs driving. So I keep the 20% rule when comparing prices between E85 and Petrol. I am seeing better performance that that as I am also watching my revs, which I should have done before, therefore I cannot compare before and after performance accurately.

colm_mcm

What I said was I think the emissions reduction is closer to 20 than 70%

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think your request for cheaper motor tax was a bit misguided, it is well known that hybrids and FFVs before 2008 still remain on the old system. the system changed in 2008, simple as that.

Also, E85 isn't the miracle most thought it would be. the overall impact of E85 production and the net benefits don't match up to the green dream of a few years ago.

FFVs and hybrids are too expensive for most people to buy, so Car conversion are the Short term solutions until people can afford Electric or better efficient FFV/Hybrids cars.
E85 Production is Improving year and year, Here in Ireland all of it comes from Dairy waste, not crops like in Brazil and the US.
See Maxol website.

There is also research in MIT that Bio-fuels can be achieved from Algae, which is High Growth, by building plants at waste treatment Plants to recover the rich Nutrients from sewage in which Algae thrive on. It a Win-Win situation. Better for the Environment in cleaning up emission into our rivers and keeping Money here at home rather than outside our Borders and Job creation.

colm_mcm

untrue about hybrid/FFV costs. you can get a 2004 Honda Civic IMA (hybrid) from the UK for under 5k thanks to the governments VRT reduction. VRT on a 2004 IMa is only 290.

priced an 06 IMA for my mother earlier today, and that's working out around 8k.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

untrue about hybrid/FFV costs. you can get a 2004 Honda Civic IMA (hybrid) from the UK for under 5k thanks to the governments VRT reduction. VRT on a 2004 IMa is only 290.

priced an 06 IMA for my mother earlier today, and that's working out around 8k.

Not everybody can go the England to buy a car like that and as soon there is a demand the price will goes up and we are back in the same situtation.

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

priced an 06 IMA for my mother earlier today, and that's working out around 8k.

Oi, after driving mine you said you'd get a Prius! Bear in mind the lovely tan leather is only in 2003 models. 2004 on are all black leather (ie my other one, call up to see it if you like), along with revised headlights and a few bits and bobs.

I don't really bother with the hows and the wherefores of E85. The thing is it's available now, and it's 20c cheaper than Unleaded. It's also nice that it will go into any car, tho the results are unknown. I'm running 10% ethanol or so (see matt simi's thread), and I will up that to 20% on the next fill, ultimately aiming for a 30% mix. This is without any modifications.

It's nice that E85 is made in Ireland tho I did hear there are food shortages in Wexford as a result of all the bio-crops.

colm_mcm

your 05 Corolla is worth at least as much as an 04 Civic! We don't have the capacity to produce enough E85 in any case, and from what I remember the Green party did a U turn on its ethanol policy.

I'd be interested in an E85 converion for my car if I thought it would make it more powerful though. Are there generic kits available, and how many components are replaced on an average car.

JHMEG: it'd be more likely to be an 03 or 04 if it goes ahead. the low VRT and high standard spec makes them an absolute bargain, The Civic is also more conventional (saloon with a manual box) and better suited to her than a space-age Prius! Will need to chat to you about servicing costs etc. May be heading to C&C with the beast* on Sunday if you're about.

* car, not mother!

limklad

JHMEG wrote: »

It's nice that E85 is made in Ireland tho I did hear there are food shortages in Wexford as a result of all the bio-crops.

Ireland E85 is made from Dairy waste not food crops. See Maxol website

colm_mcm

I think they eat dairy waste in Wexford. not sure how true that is though.

JHMEG

limklad wrote: »

Ireland E85 is made from Dairy waste not food crops. See Maxol website

I was joking. Tho I did hear there is a shortage of wexford queens.:D

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think they eat dairy waste in Wexford. not sure how true that is though.

LOL!

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd be interested in an E85 converion for my car if I thought it would make it more powerful though. Are there generic kits available, and how many components are replaced on an average car.

No components removed. 1 small box and set of cables to install 1 per injector and a Ground Cable and that is all that is added. Read my first post for Links about the kits.

Search "E85 Installation" or "Fuel Flex"on Youtube for more information.

Here is an Installation Video done by a Woman

The only difference between the generic kits are the Connectors to the injectors.

There is mix results on more power bit, but you will lose it on fuel efficiency by approx 20% depending on how you drive.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think they eat dairy waste in Wexford. not sure how true that is though.

That explains a few things about them!!

colm_mcm

My main concern is that the fuel hoses will corrode.

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

JHMEG: it'd be more likely to be an 03 or 04 if it goes ahead. the low VRT and high standard spec makes them an absolute bargain, The Civic is also more conventional (saloon with a manual box) and better suited to her than a space-age Prius! Will need to chat to you about servicing costs etc. May be heading to C&C with the beast* on Sunday if you're about.

* car, not mother!

One thing colm is the VRT rebate is on a sliding scale and reduces by €500 every year older the car is. I don't think a 2003 will get any rebate by now and a 2004 will only get €500. Plug your figures into the VRT calculator, but it is possible a newer car can work out cheaper when the rebate is applied.

Servicing is standard but there are gotchas on the spark plugs and oil. They're both Honda specific and you could easily end up paying waaayy too much for both. Shur you have my email address. I won't be at the C&C - have seen it all at this stage

colm_mcm

JHMEG wrote: »

One thing colm is the VRT rebate is on a sliding scale and reduces by €500 every year older the car is. I don't think a 2003 will get any rebate by now and a 2004 will only get €500. Plug your figures into the VRT calculator, but it is possible a newer car can work out cheaper when the rebate is applied.

Did a quote on a 04 today and it was 290.
Heard how top get the plugs cheaply from someone

as for C&C, there's always something new there!

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

My main concern is that the fuel hoses will corrode.

Read matt's thread. Petrol is more corrosive! There's an interesting report there too that I posted.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

My main concern is that the fuel hoses will corrode.

Only if they are made from rubber which will eventually wear with petrol anyway.
The Biggest problem with Ethanol is that It absorbs Moisture and that moisture will cause corrosion, therefore if you car is sitting for long periods (Parked up), It will be a problem.

Fuel Pump would be another concern if it uses rubber. But that only effect old cars as rubber was used back then. But Do check with Honda before Installation of the Kit. They will not guarantee the car using E85 as they have not done any trials before release. Only Ask if they Use Rubber and if you can get Maintenance Manual and get part Id and check yourself.

Also After Installation of the Kit, You fill 50% E85 and 50% Petrol, after that you can put in E85. This will help the tune the kit to both Fuels.

You will also need to change the Oil and replace the Fuel Filter after 1000 miles as the Petrol sludge from the Bottom of the Tank will pass through the system.

colm_mcm

I see. the car I was wondering about isn't a Honda, and is much older. best not to risk it I'd say.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

What I said was I think the emissions reduction is closer to 20 than 70%

No, the Report is more like 70% less.

Ask Tom McDermott, a Green party Councillor, Dublin 6 and his NCT results of his 1999 Alfa Romeo

http://www.fuelflex.ie/testimonials.html

colm_mcm

Production of E85 creates a lot of greenhouse gasses, As far as I know, the net difference compared to petrol is 20%.

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

I see. the car I was wondering about isn't a Honda, and is much older. best not to risk it I'd say.

Post 1990 are all built to the same standards when it comes to ethanol. Think about it this way: If you can drink it, it probably won't corrode your car!

JHMEG

limklad wrote: »

No, the Report is more like 70% less.

Ask Tom McDermott, a Green party Councillor, Dublin 6 and his NCT results of his 1999 Alfa Romeo

http://www.fuelflex.ie/testimonials.html

"Tom McDermott, a Green party councillor, Dublin 6 has driven his 1999 Alfa Romeo 156 on e85 for the past two years with a conversion kit. He says it drives “smoother and faster on E85, while the CO2 emissions were reduced by 70% in his NCT test."

NCT don't measure CO2. They do measure CO, which E85 does reduce.

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

Production of E85 creates a lot of greenhouse gasses, As far as I know, the net difference compared to petrol is 20%.

Using Crops and transport of those crops using Fossil Fuels then Yes, But you reduce that by using bio-fuels for transport and energy, and renewable Electricity for electrical equipment.

You are also forgetting that Refinery of Petrol and Diesel also adds Lots of CO2 too in which oil companies forget to mention.

We have to start small and put in all the pieces into place but without demand for E85, we back to square one and that total dependence on Foreign Energy. Increase Demand means more Research, bigger and more production facilities, lower prices which will stimulate more demand for the change over to bio-fuels.
Bio-Fuels can be made more easily than Fossil Fuel. By manufacturing Bio-fuels here and immediately you reduce transport emissions to get here.
Then refinery. Oil companies have not release the figures and the energy cost of refinement, CO2 emissions and waste from it.

Fossil Fuel is Finite, and the Total supplies are unknown at the moment.
With Bio-Fuel current research we already know we can grow more Energy Fuels without using current farm land and crops. Algae and Dairy waste is two of many unknown sources for Bio-Diesel and Bio-Ethanol.

I have read some research from MIT and other Universities putting in trials in place on getting Bio-diesel from Sewage. Using the energy from sewage waste can help in getting bio-diesel from it and remaining can be used to feed Algae for more growing more fuel and the remaining waste can be used as a fertilizer.

By having a demand for Bio-fuel, companies will put money into it and make it more available. Government/EU can put in place Laws for creating Bio-Fuels to prevent use of Farm lands for creation of Bio-fuels, only if there a demand for Food from the Land.

limklad

JHMEG wrote: »

NCT don't measure CO2. They do measure CO, which E85 does reduce.

Better again, less poison into the air we breath. Carbon Monoxide (CO) the Silent Killer.

JHMEG

limklad wrote: »

Better again, less poison into the air we breath. Carbon Monoxide (CO) the Silent Killer.

Maybe so, but point is it's CO and not CO2 that's reduced.

Fair play to you for giving the E85 a shot. I think a sticky or something might be useful with experiences of those of us who are trying it.

A fellow Limerick person, Ninety9er, was using it in his Astra, and should have some long term experience. Tho I suppose he's out canvassing at the moment

limklad

JHMEG wrote: »

Maybe so, but point is it's CO and not CO2 that's reduced.

Fair play to you for giving the E85 a shot. I think a sticky or something might be useful with experiences of those of us who are trying it.

A fellow Limerick person, Ninety9er, was using it in his Astra, and should have some long term experience. Tho I suppose he's out canvassing at the moment

I looked at at the Finance and future point of view, Which ever is cheaper to put into my car which determines which I will use, provided the risks are the same. In this case it is the Same after my research. Taking both concerns from Both sides of the E85 Argument.
I also looked at the benefits of having E85 for the Future and possible supply and the disadvantage of not having it as an alternative source to Petrol when petrol prices goes sky high and supply decreases. Petrol prices have not drop much even though we are experience the worst recession since the 30's and that got me worried.

So I doing my bit to stir up demand for E85 to encourage more production here in Ireland with the benefits of Jobs creation and that I know that i will still be able to drive to work/Town and still have fun driving if petrol price/supply goes crazy.

colm_mcm

Maybe it's a bity naieve to think that the forecourts won't just bump the price of E85 up if petrol becomes more expensive

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe it's a bity naieve to think that the forecourts won't just bump the price of E85 up if petrol becomes more expensive

You can be sure they will, but at the moment the difference is 20c, or just over 20%.

Of course there is nothing to say that Lobber Lenihan won't decide that he wants a slice of the action in the next budget either.

Zube

limklad wrote: »

http://www.fuelflex.ie/testimonials.html

Looks good, except that the NCT doesn't test CO2 emissions, so that would make that report somewhat counterfactual.

Makey-uppy.

Not true.

Lies.

A load of b@llocks, OK?

Zube

By the way, I have a Magnet Ring on my knob which means I emit 75% less methane - you should get one. This other dude on the Internet proved it with science!

If you don't wear a knob-magnet you're killing Pandas and baby Jesus is sad.

Matt Simis

Zube wrote: »

By the way, I have a Magnet Ring on my knob which means I emit 75% less methane - you should get one. This other dude on the Internet proved it with science!
If you don't wear a knob-magnet you're killing Pandas and baby Jesus is sad.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe it's a bity naieve to think that the forecourts won't just bump the price of E85 up if petrol becomes more expensive

colm_mcm wrote: »

Production of E85 creates a lot of greenhouse gasses, As far as I know, the net difference compared to petrol is 20%.

Why does any thread on E85, on various forums, attract such pointless and meandering commentary? If you have an issue with the politics of Ethanol/Industry, take it here and if you have any prophetic conspiracy theories, play elsewhere. .

Less theory and "I thinking" and more fact.

Zube

Matt Simis wrote: »

Less theory and "I thinking" and more fact.

Fact: this link, cited earlier in the thread, is b@llocks:
http://www.fuelflex.ie/testimonials.html

Fact: it's really obvious to anyone who's ever NCT'd a car that it's b*llocks.

Conclusion : E85 boosters are liars who think I'm stupid.

Did I miss any facts? Or was that too "I thinking" for you?

pete4130

National Geographic article on the subject. It answers alot of questions you've never thought of answering

eringobragh

limklad wrote: »

I have recently converted my 2005 Corolla car with Fuel-Flex kit directly from the Manufacturer.
Before buying the Kit, I made sure I had the right Connections and correct polarity. After That I needed my Insurance Company go ahead for Cover that no increase in premiums will be incurred. So Far so Good. All they needed was a Qualified Mechanic to Installed it and send them a letter or copy of the invoice which state the Bio-Ethanol Kit was Installed using Manufacture instructions. I did this so I can keep my car insurance cover valid.

I Also got the Same Mechanic who installs the Kit here in Limerick which is RS Auto Shop in Clondrina, since they had experience already. E85 Flyer
It cost me ~€80 to install and ~€300 to buy from the websites and ship it to me. That was a big saving (€190) to me before buying the E85 Fuel which currently 97C/L. The Kit that RS Auto Shop buys cost him way and was surprise by the price I got for it.
Currently both sellers are still in sales mode right now.
Fuel Flex International
Change2e85

I also recommends before buying from either Sites, is to get their shipping costs and verify that your car year and model and polarity of the Injectors with them by email. This is 1/. to ensure you are getting the correct kit and 2/. that customer service is good in case you need to send back the kit.

So Far I have no problems.

Also I Could not get a reduction in Motor Tax for reduce CO2 Emissions as the Car is older than 2008 even though E85 reduces CO2 Emissions by 70%.
It is a basic Stealth Tax for their Pockets and not for protection of the Environment as they claimed.

This was the Reply I got from the Tax office

Very interesting..would there be any issues throwing this into an older high mileage car? also how did you test the polarity of your injectors, I presume you used a multimeter or something?

Gary ITR

Zube could you take a chill pill there please

Zube

Onkle wrote: »

Zube could you take a chill pill there please

OK, sorry.

limklad

eringobragh wrote: »

Very interesting..would there be any issues throwing this into an older high mileage car?

Ask all the E85 Kit sellers, It is worth giving them information about your car and see what they come back with. You can then compare the comments they give with each other. Let us know what they tell you.

Personally, I believe that if there is no rubber in your fuel lines then I would chance it, especially since it an older car. But It a personal choice and only you have to be happy with it.
E85 is becoming a rage in the US and has been in Brazil for a very long time now. It is a pity they get their Ethanol from Farm crops especially since they are alternatives sources like Dairy waste (See Maxol Website) here in Ireland and Algae.

I originally got the Kit so I can choose between petrol and E85 to select the cheaper option of the day of purchase while keeping in mind the 20% additional on E85 since its fuel economy is worst on High Rev Driving.
Also I was shock of the price from Kits here in Ireland (€500) and the US ($300) especially since the fuel flex Kits here in Ireland all comes from the US. Do Not forget to involve you Insurance company on what you intend to Do so your car insurance is covered. My car is Insured with FBD and I was up front with them and show them the E85 Flyer from RS Auto Shop, Limerick to get their opinion. They did not have any problems with the E85 KIT and had only one condition. It must be installed by a mechanic and they wanted an letter/invoice showing that.

eringobragh wrote: »

also how did you test the polarity of your injectors, I presume you used a multimeter or something?

I downloaded a picture of the Injector connectors from the Internet usually the E85 kit websites would show pictures of each connector type by each Car manufacturer, then I print the one that matches my car model.

I then took of the Cover of the Engine block to gain access to the injector cables and disconnected one set of injectors. Apply power by turning the Key to ON (Not Starting the Car). Connected the Negative lead of the Multimeter on chassis (GND/Neg-0V) and use the other positive lead of the multimeter to determined the polarity and marked the printed picture the Voltages I measured. If you do not read 12V (battery voltage) then the Car power is not turn on.

On the Computer, I used the downloaded injector connector picture from the internet and edit it using Paint.net (Free online Picture/photo editor or Window paint or gimp will do) and sent it on to the E85 website of your choice to verify the connection. If you want you can take a photo of your car injectors with meter reading and sent them on the Car model. Personally, I Just need to verify first hand before ordering, I did not want the hassle to be sending back the kit for a replacement. Also your local mechanic should be able to tell you, Just make sure you have a picture of the injector connectors so you can have a hard copy of the voltages.
Once they verify I ordered and then recheck with them a day later quoting order number/Car model etc to check, that I order the correct one. There is no harm in rechecking that the kit you receive is the correct one, It saves a lot of hassle in the long run. It cuts out the mistake made at both ends (buyer and seller).

limklad

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe it's a bity naieve to think that the forecourts won't just bump the price of E85 up if petrol becomes more expensive

I rather be called naive than have no choice and be stuck with one fuel, E85 Kits do not limit me to E85 only, I can still use Petrol at any time, therefore I am not limited and be left foolishly if E85 do not take off and the E85 Kits can be easily removed. On the other hand if Petrol supply reduces and price do go up, then they will be a demand for E85, price of E85 will goes up due to demand but it will be available and I can still go to work, Shop and do every day things with my car without the embarrassment of poor car performance of using E85 without the E85 Kit.

E85 Kits allow extra Ethanol fuel in to the engine to improve performance at high revs. That the only thing it does. E85 in a normal petrol car will have reduce performance at high revs.

As A customer, I have listen to Both side of the E85 Corroded debate. The worst E85 can do Damage wise at extreme risks to current cars which has already corroded lines/tank/fuel pump or poorly maintenance cars is to corrode the rest of the damage away and leak. E85 will corrode rubber, so does Petrol but Petrol will leave a sludge on the surface of the Fuel lines. Not all Petrol from all Petrol Vendors are clean. Cheap Petrol tends to be Dirty. So Far E85 People have been upfront and open with drawbacks of E85, I have not held back either about them. They also gives information about what you need and checks to do for a smooth conversion of your car and the Benefits of E85.

Ethanol is Bio-degradable and It absorbs water, less of a safety risk than Petrol. Since E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% Petrol, therefore less of a impact to the environment as 100% Petrol when leaked. E85 will clean out your car tank and fuel lines of poor fuel and dirt left by petrol as E85 sinks to the bottom of the tank. That why are installing the Kit after 1000 Miles, that you will need to replace the Fuel filter and change the engine Oil.

I do not believe the alternatives will arrive fast and when they do come it will be slow and you be left with more limitations until the new infrastructure is radially role out Nationally. Look at Broadband here in Ireland for Example we are way behind the rest of Europe (Sweden, UK, Netherlands in both Speed and availability Nationality with those speeds. It took a long time until the 80's that out phone line quality improvements in the country side when there was a national role out of new phones lines, Phone Exchanges and the automation of the Phone system, while the US and Western Europe where way ahead of us. In the 1970's we were still shouting down the phones lines just to be heard!! Today we can whisper quietly and still be heard the other side of the world.

JHMEG

The only two potential drawbacks I can see to E85 are the ability to absorb mositure from the air. I don't know how dangerous this could be, if at all. The other is that there is currently no Excise Duty on it to encourage its use. If Lenihan sees the opportunity to make money off it, he will.

limklad

JHMEG wrote: »

The only two potential drawbacks I can see to E85 are the ability to absorb mositure from the air. I don't know how dangerous this could be, if at all.

I look at this too, and was happy with the current safe guards. Your E85 will be in your petrol tank therefore it will be limited on the amount the Moisture it will absorbs.
The other side is Manufacture of E85 and the control the Manufacture put in place and Storage until it gets to you car. Yes it is a risk, but I believe it is a very small one. It would not be good for Maxol who support E85 to allow Moisture into E85 and they would have asses the risk of it. It would be bad business for them if they did not.

I forgot to mention 1 other drawback, During Cold weather (Frost) the Car will take longer to start, but once started it will start normally for the rest of the day, that why I got the Cold E85 Kit. It will measure the Temperature and allow extra fuel into the engine for a smooth start at cold temps then operate as normal.

JHMEG wrote: »

The other is that there is currently no Excise Duty on it to encourage its use. If Lenihan sees the opportunity to make money off it, he will.

We will be paying more on Carbon Tax in the long run due to Koyto agreement, if we do not change our ways soon. Most Politicians only tends to think short term and not long term usually as far forward as the next election, use that to your advantage.
Tell your Politicians your Opinions, I am vocal, But I need more help, I like you want cheaper Fuel. It affects our disposal incomes and cost of manufacture of Goods to sell to others. Jobs are at risk if our cost get too high. By growing our own fuels and extract Fuels from Waste, we can create Jobs, reduce dependency of foreign oil and reduce our CO2 emissions.
It is only a matter of Time before they add lot more Carbon Tax on Petrol and Diesel. Cheap Fossil fuel will soon come to an end. Most say is already at an end but it will get much higher for we have to pay for our bad mistakes that we inherited.
That why it is important to question Politicians and Vote to have your say.

Also Ireland have plans to put in place commitments to the EU and UN in reduction of CO2 emissions. Bio-Ethanol grows from plants and food waste, CO2 is absorbs by Plants and the Cycle is started again.
Fossil Fuels just keep adding more CO2 and other Toxins into the Atmosphere without a recycling back into the Ground in a renewable and environment impact in a timely manner.
If you remember from your Geography Class in school, It originally took thousands/millions (not sure which) of Years for Fossil fuel to be created from Plants using pressure from the movement and layers of deposited earth to created fossil fuel.
Ethanol have a much faster renewable cycle time.

If the world was perfect I would personal choose electric cars going forward but there is too much drawbacks right now. Prius and the Honda version is good choice as an intermediate step, But I would love if they could still plug to charge up in rather be tied to petrol alone, especially if you do a lot of city driving, and have the petrol as a backup to charge the batteries when the charge is low especially you cannot get near a plug if you out in the countryside or in a hurry to get somewhere. When the Prius get cheaper I will buy it and convert it to run on ethanol.

limklad

Zube wrote: »

Fact: this link, cited earlier in the thread, is b@llocks:
http://www.fuelflex.ie/testimonials.html

Fact: it's really obvious to anyone who's ever NCT'd a car that it's b*llocks.

Conclusion : E85 boosters are liars who think I'm stupid.

Did I miss any facts? Or was that too "I thinking" for you?

I am always open to corrections and open to free choices for people to choose but I am not open to abusers like you.

JimmyCrackCorn!

origional question of is there a cheaper option.

a APexi SAFC + a map would be roughly the same cost but you would lose dual fuel capability

limklad

JimmyCrackCorn! wrote: »

origional question of is there a cheaper option.

a APexi SAFC + a map would be roughly the same cost but you would lose dual fuel capability

APexi SAFC is a Air Flow converter but the map the ECU would probably be the other better option as the ECU will have data From the oxygen sensors to determine fuel quality. More information here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

The drawback of the mapping of the ECU you have to verify the original map if you want to go back and uninstall the system at any time.
Good question though, but I do not know much about mapping the ECU, as I do not have any experience of using it but it probably depends on each car model.

My suggestion of attack is ask if your Insurance Company will support it? There is no harm of putting the question to them. Right now they are the biggest barrier to any conversion or modification and the insurance cost implications of it. Also how much will it cost to buy that kit and to install it and map the ECU. How complicated will the install be? and what are the drawbacks?

If the Insurance Companies do allow it, Please tell us what there conditions and at what cost! We all like the cheaper option provide the risk is ok.

limklad

For those who are still sceptical about ethanol production in Ireland. I came across this article from the UK independent paper tilted "'Clean’ bioethanol: Ireland discovers the whey to go..."

Also from the Business Post
Kebab king turned ethanol emperor

Fords Irish Website
http://www.ford.ie/AboutFord/Environment/OurFlexifuelRange
you need to click on the Bioethanol in Ireland to un-hide the article.

Ford.ie wrote:

Turning Irish cheese into bioethanol gold
The group produce the fuel from whey – a milk derivative and bi-product of the cheese manufacturing process. Essentially, the bioethanol is being made from the leftovers of cheese production.

Based in Co. Cork, the factory is the single largest cheese producing facility in Ireland and its bioethanol is considered among the cleanest in the world. This is because, unlike other forms of bio-fuel, it is made without any greenhouse gas emissions. The carbon in the whey is a biological resource, so the CO2 released was extracted from the atmosphere (not from under the ground).

The cows which produce the milk are 90% grass fed with the balance made up of cereals. On this basis, the ethanol is derived from renewable source – grass and cereals.

The potential for the agricultural sector in Ireland is huge as a new market is evolving for different uses of crops and waste. This is important for the industry, and Ireland as a whole, to help secure local jobs and energy supplies.

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/blog2/2007/11/08/carbery-groups-dairy-by-product-supplies-all-of-irelands-ethanol-cant-expand-due-to-eu-dairy-production-quotas/

Ireland's Bioethonal production is considered carbon neutral in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.
If only we can get rid of that E85 which includes 15% Petrol and go for direct E100..

Also they (Carbery) are limited in the amount they can make ethanol from whey because of EU regulations on Dairy quota's and caps.
Read the Independent link above and the following
http://biofuelsdigest.com/blog2/2007/11/08/carbery-groups-dairy-by-product-supplies-all-of-irelands-ethanol-cant-expand-due-to-eu-dairy-production-quotas/